OT: He's gone.

Jon Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Let's hope the milder Clarke sweeps
his more rabid policies under the carpet.

Yeah, first for the chop is the total bullsh!t ID cards scheme.

Clarke is one of the local MPs round here (Naarf*ck), although not mine. If
he doesn't withdraw the ID cards I could always go round his constituency
surgery after a sweaty ride & sit around with my arms help aloft, refusing
to take my armpits elsewhere until he complies. You think al-Quaeeda has a
monopoly on dirty bombs?

OT: Fantasy Cabinet Scraps. Who'd come off best in Clarke vs. Prescott? I
see them on the green outside the Houses of Parliament - jackets & ties
cast aside, sleeves rolled up, proper Marquis of Queensbury stance, while a
pack of pressmen surround them, baying for blood. All the time, Gordon is
stood on the periphery, running a book on the outcome ('prudent' odds, of
course)...

More seriously, some friends of mine have met Charles Clarke in the context
of his previous (Education) post, and apparently he's a very personable guy
who makes an effort to listen.

--
Chris Bardell
[Remove favourite mode of transport from email address]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 23:54:34 +0000, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk said:

Let's hope the milder Clarke sweeps
his more rabid policies under the carpet.

Not a hope 8-(

If you don't want ID cards, then do the legwork:
www.no2id.net
www.faxyourmp.com

Jon Senior said:

Sorry but I haven't been this happy about politics in years. Herr
Blunkett has left the building. I would wish him my condolences if I
actually felt that he was in any way qualified to hold the position of
Home Secretary in the first place. Let's hope the milder Clarke sweeps
his more rabid policies under the carpet.

Seems to be little chance of this. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

Bah!

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

Jon Senior said:

Sorry but I haven't been this happy about politics in years. Herr
Blunkett has left the building. I would wish him my condolences if I
actually felt that he was in any way qualified to hold the position of
Home Secretary in the first place. Let's hope the milder Clarke sweeps
his more rabid policies under the carpet.

Jon

If by "rabid policies" you mean the introduction of ID cards, forget it.

Epetruk said:

If by "rabid policies" you mean the introduction of ID cards, forget it.

Indeed. Interviewed on the Today Programme this morning, Clarke stated
he intends to push ahead with ID cards as soon as possible.

Pete.

Pete Bentley said:

Epetruk said:

If by "rabid policies" you mean the introduction of ID cards, forget
it.

Indeed. Interviewed on the Today Programme this morning, Clarke
stated he intends to push ahead with ID cards as soon as possible.

Pete.

I don't think that ID cards are a bad thing in principle. However, I don't
think that the technology to be used and the cost of the project justify
introducing them at this time.

--
Akin

aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk

In article said:

Jon Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Let's hope the milder Clarke sweeps
his more rabid policies under the carpet.

Yeah, first for the chop is the total bullsh!t ID cards scheme.

[...]

Quoted message said:

More seriously, some friends of mine have met Charles Clarke in the context
of his previous (Education) post, and apparently he's a very personable guy
who makes an effort to listen.

It doesn't show: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4100629.stm

in message <[email hidden]>, Jon Senior

jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk ('') said:

Sorry but I haven't been this happy about politics in years. Herr
Blunkett has left the building. I would wish him my condolences if I
actually felt that he was in any way qualified to hold the position of
Home Secretary in the first place. Let's hope the milder Clarke sweeps
his more rabid policies under the carpet.

I hate to say this, but I can't help remembering how elated I was when
the Tories got kicked out. What happened? What happened to the 'Ethical
Foreign Policy' which, frankly, for me was the biggest thing? What
happened about the arms trade? What happened about probity in public
life? What happened about social justice? On topic for this group, what
happened about integrated transport policy?

The answer, frankly is we've gone backwards on all fronts. On foreign
policy, we've indulged in an illegal imperial war in cynical support of
oil interests - not even our own oil interests - while continuing to be
one of the worlds major exporters of arms. On social justice, the
disparity between rich and poor is wider, and getting wider faster. On
transport, we have new motorways, relatively cheaper motoring,
relatively more expensive trains with more restrictions on taking a
bike. And on probity in public life?

So, yes, it's good to hear that one of Tony's cronies has got his well
earned comeuppance. But don't for a moment imagine that, in the words
of the old song, 'things can only get better'. In the words of another,
'you ain't seen nothing yet'.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ring of great evil
Small one casts it into flame
Bringing rise of Men ;; gonzoron

Jon Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote:
: Sorry but I haven't been this happy about politics in years. Herr
: Blunkett has left the building.

I have very mixed feelings about this. I detest his policies, but
admire him as a person hugely for what he has achieved. It's a shame
he went the way he did IMO.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness

On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 10:10:56 -0000,

Dave Larrington said:

Jon Senior said:

Sorry but I haven't been this happy about politics in years. Herr
Blunkett has left the building. I would wish him my condolences if I
actually felt that he was in any way qualified to hold the position of
Home Secretary in the first place. Let's hope the milder Clarke sweeps
his more rabid policies under the carpet.

Seems to be little chance of this. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

He will be under strict instructions from the top, and probably would not
be allowed to change direction even if he wanted to.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Epetruk composed the following ...

Quoted message said:

I don't think that ID cards are a bad thing in principle. However, I don't
think that the technology to be used and the cost of the project justify
introducing them at this time.

I agree with this post .. 😉

--
Paul ...
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
(8(!) Homer Rules ... 😉
"A [censored] is a [censored], no matter what mode of transport they're using."

Paul - censored said:

Epetruk composed the following ...

Quoted message said:

I don't think that ID cards are a bad thing in principle. However, I don't
think that the technology to be used and the cost of the project justify
introducing them at this time.

I agree with this post .. 😉

And I fundamentally disagree with the premise that they are a good thing.
Not so much from a personal liberty POV (although that's also a big issue),
but from the point of view that they are not going to achieve what the
Govt wanted them to achieve. There is no way of producing an unforgeable
ID card, and even if there was, there is no way of ensuring the system
of getting one is both un-foolable, and uncorruptable. Remeber, all
of the 911 hijackers had valid ID, some of it was false, and others
were legitimate but obtained corruptly (and some was legitimate and
obtained legitimately).

I will be entitled to an ID card. How does that prevent me from
driving a bomb into London and blowing it to smithereens, whatever
they are?

It is complete and utter rubbish. And I'm bloody glad at least one
moron has gone from the Govt.

Sorry. Rant over.

--
Trevor Barton

Trevor Barton said:

Paul - censored said:

Epetruk composed the following ...

Quoted message said:

I don't think that ID cards are a bad thing in principle. However,
I don't think that the technology to be used and the cost of the
project justify introducing them at this time.

I agree with this post .. 😉

And I fundamentally disagree with the premise that they are a good
thing. Not so much from a personal liberty POV (although that's also
a big issue), but from the point of view that they are not going to
achieve what the Govt wanted them to achieve. There is no way of
producing an unforgeable ID card,

You sound like you've made up your mind on this one, so I don't think
any new advances in technology will convince you otherwise.

In any case, nobody is saying (or should be saying) that ID cards should
be unforgeable - they should just be good enough to establish one's
identity to such a degree that the chances of you being someone else
are minimal.

Quoted message said:

and even if there was, there is no way of ensuring the system
of getting one is both un-foolable, and uncorruptable.

As above.

Quoted message said:

Rememeber, all of the 911 hijackers had valid ID, some of it was
false, and others were legitimate but obtained corruptly (and
some was legitimate and obtained legitimately).

I will be entitled to an ID card. How does that prevent me from
driving a bomb into London and blowing it to smithereens, whatever
they are?

I don't see the value of ID cards as a terrorist prevention measure -
quite frankly, I can't understand that argument. To me, they are more
valuable in preventing identity theft (which I believe is going to
be a big issue in the future) and benefit fraud.

Even if the government doesn't go ahead with this idea, we may well
see the rise of several Verisign like companies which offer to authenticate
one's identity for various reasons.

Quoted message said:

It is complete and utter rubbish. And I'm bloody glad at least one
moron has gone from the Govt.

Sorry. Rant over.

No need to apologise - a rant is a Good Thing!

Trevor Barton composed the following ...

Quoted message said:

Paul - censored said:

Epetruk composed the following ...

Quoted message said:

I don't think that ID cards are a bad thing in principle. However, I
don't think that the technology to be used and the cost of the project
justify introducing them at this time.

I agree with this post .. 😉

And I fundamentally disagree with the premise that they are a good thing.
Not so much from a personal liberty POV (although that's also a big
issue), but from the point of view that they are not going to achieve
what the Govt wanted them to achieve. There is no way of producing an
unforgeable ID card, and even if there was, there is no way of ensuring
the system
of getting one is both un-foolable, and uncorruptable. Remeber, all
of the 911 hijackers had valid ID, some of it was false, and others
were legitimate but obtained corruptly (and some was legitimate and
obtained legitimately).

I will be entitled to an ID card. How does that prevent me from
driving a bomb into London and blowing it to smithereens, whatever
they are?

It is complete and utter rubbish. And I'm bloody glad at least one
moron has gone from the Govt.

Sorry. Rant over.

Good points. But, I think the ID card will be good, if it's done properly,
and that, to my mind, is the real issue. I don't seriously think they'll do
it correctly, I mean, just look at the photo driving licence. A nice, neat
card, that is useless as a driving licence because when you need to do
anything (To a policeman, say) you still have to provide proof of identity
with the paper part it comes with .. 😉

--
Paul ...
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
(8(!) Homer Rules ... 😉
"A [censored] is a [censored], no matter what mode of transport they're using."

Quoted message said:

On social justice, the
disparity between rich and poor is wider, and getting wider faster.

As long as the poor are still getting richer that's fine by me.

And hey, at least it's the kind-of meaningless 'relative' poverty we're
concerned about, rather than real poverty.

Epetruk said:

In any case, nobody is saying (or should be saying) that ID cards should
be unforgeable - they should just be good enough to establish one's
identity to such a degree that the chances of you being someone else
are minimal.

They will either be 'good enough' because they can be checked back at a
central database, or they will be forgeable.

If they are to be used for identity, why not just throw away the card part
and retain comparing the biometric data with that stored centrally. After
all, there is little chance of failing to carry biometric data with you.
< I know you lost your arm in an accident last week Mr Smith but I'm
arresting you for failing to carry the required biometric data >

...d

Paul - censored said:

A nice, neat
card, that is useless as a driving licence because when you need to do
anything (To a policeman, say) you still have to provide proof of identity
with the paper part it comes with .. 😉

I thought it was the other way round. Teh photo card establishes
identity,the paper part establishes elegibility.

ICBW

...d

David Martin composed the following ...

Quoted message said:

On 16/12/04 1:21 pm, in article [email hidden], "Paul -

censored said:

A nice, neat
card, that is useless as a driving licence because when you need to do
anything (To a policeman, say) you still have to provide proof of
identity with the paper part it comes with .. 😉

I thought it was the other way round. Teh photo card establishes
identity,the paper part establishes elegibility.

ICBW

ICBW & YCBR .. I dunno .. but generally you can't use one part without the
other, which seems farcicle to me .. 😉

--
Paul ...
http://www.4x4prejudice.org/index.php
(8(!) Homer Rules ... 😉
"A [censored] is a [censored], no matter what mode of transport they're using."

Arthur Clune said:

I have very mixed feelings about this. I detest his policies, but
admire him as a person hugely for what he has achieved. It's a shame
he went the way he did IMO.

I really liked Blunkett when he ran Sheffield. But if power corrupts,
becoming Home Sec seems to turn them into power-crazed fruitbats
overnight.