OT - Grammar (nimue)

Damsel in dis Dress said:

Would you be willing to help me out with a couple of things? (I almost
started that sentence with, "Can," but I hear echoes of my mom's voice
saying, "Yes, I can. Would you like me to?"😉

Guide to grammar and style:
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/contents.html
"Interesting Links" number 40 on The Retreat.

Mirriam-Webster Dictionary
http://www.m-w.com
"Interesting Links" number 43 on The Retreat

HTH

Lee Rodgers
Lowcarb Retreat http://www.lowcarb.org
CHAT http://www.lowcarb.org/parachat.html
Low-Carb Connoisseur http://www.low-carb.com

Damsel in dis Dress said:

Would you be willing to help me out with a couple of things? (I
almost started that sentence with, "Can," but I hear echoes of my
mom's voice saying, "Yes, I can. Would you like me to?"😉

I'll start by saying that when I hear "whom" or "shall," I think the
person sounds pretentious. I know when "shall" should be used, but I
prefer, "I'm gonna." Minnesota Casual?

When is "whom" proper?

"Whom" is an object pronoun. Use "whom" whenever you would use another
object pronoun, such as me, him, her, us, or them. Therefore, if you are
going to say "Who has the book" and you aren't sure whether to use "who" or
"whom" just plug in alternative object or subject pronouns and find out.
You would say "He has the book," wouldn't you? Then obviously that calls
for a subject pronoun (I, he, she, they, we, who). What if you wanted to
ask who got the book (he got the book)? Then you would say "To whom did you
give the book?" Wouldn't you say "I gave the book to him," right.
Basically, finding out which pronoun to use is a matter of plugging-in --
that's the easiest way. Remember -- subject pronouns are I, he, she, they,
we, and who. Object pronouns are me, him, her, them, us, and whom (you and
it work for both). If you would use "me" in a sentence, then you would use
any other object pronoun in that part of the sentence. "John gave the book
to them" becomes "John gave the book to him and her." "John gave the book
to us" becomes "John gave the book to me and her." Get it? If John has a
book-giving friend, you might say, "John and he gave us the book." You
would say "They gave us the book," right? So just use the subject pronouns
that part of the sentence obviously calls for.

Quoted message said:

I have a handicap where this discussion is concerned. I know the very
basic parts of speech (noun, verb, adjective, adverb, preposition, and
that's about it). I learned what I know by my parents' examples and
by reading a LOT when I was growing up. The names of the parts of
speech never seemed very relevant to me.

I also end a lot of sentences with prepositions, without the phrase
that should follow.

There is NOTHING WRONG with ending your sentence with a prepositon.
NOTHING. Don't worry about it. I know you have been told otherwise, but
the people who told you were wrong. However, there is no need to add
prepositions. Don't say, "Where is he at" if you can just say "Where is
he?"

Quoted message said:

It's another case of doing it properly sounding
pretentious (to me, at least). You've gotta know that I come from an
area where the proper pronunciation of "croissant," will generate a
blank stare, or a snooty look that says they think you're being
uppity. You say, "cru-sont," or you're not going to get what you're
trying to order.

Another question. This is just how I am, so I'm not likely to
change, but when I say "gonna, sorta, kinda," etc., does that drive
you, as an English teacher, bonkers?

Not at all. I have no problem with that. You are aware of what you are
doing. However, I do get irritated when people don't know the rules of
grammar and say things like "Him and I left." Oh, lord! Leave, by all
means! Actually, as I have said before -- it's the grammar that gets to
me -- not the person. Feel free to write in conversational English. Just
be aware of the rules of grammar when you do so.

Quoted message said:

I tend to write in
conversational tones. Some people find that down-to-earth. Others
find it insufferable. Just curious what your take on it is.

Again, it doesn't bother me at all. I don't care if someone uses argot.
People should still respect basic grammar, however.

Quoted message said:

I think that I use too many commas, compared to most people.

Well, so do I.

Quoted message said:

I'm not
sure if I use too many, or if everyone else uses too few. I
intentionally leave them out in places where I know they belong, just
so I don't look like a freak to the general population.

It will take more than that to make you look like a freak! Don't worry
about it! Now, go buy my favorite grammar book, _Woe is I_, by Patricia T.
O'Conner. It's great and it will answer all your questions. You should also
get Strunk and White's _The Elements of Style_.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for any insight,
Carol

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

(Lee Rodgers) said:

Guide to grammar and style:
http://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~jlynch/Writing/contents.html
"Interesting Links" number 40 on The Retreat.

Mirriam-Webster Dictionary
http://www.m-w.com
"Interesting Links" number 43 on The Retreat

Thanks so much, Lee!
Carol
--
Fasting BG: 86
Bernstein Diabetes Solution 5/25/2004
Diabetes Dx 5/15/2001

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 10:42:08 GMT, "nimue" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

When is "whom" proper?

"Whom" is an object pronoun. Use "whom" whenever you would use another
object pronoun, such as me, him, her, us, or them. Therefore, if you are
going to say "Who has the book" and you aren't sure whether to use "who" or
"whom" just plug in alternative object or subject pronouns and find out.
You would say "He has the book," wouldn't you? Then obviously that calls
for a subject pronoun (I, he, she, they, we, who). What if you wanted to
ask who got the book (he got the book)? Then you would say "To whom did you
give the book?" Wouldn't you say "I gave the book to him," right.

Okay, I *think* I've got that. Next time I have occasion to use it, I'll
give it a shot. Makes me nervous, because I don't think I've ever used
that word in a sentence.

Quoted message said:

Basically, finding out which pronoun to use is a matter of plugging-in --
that's the easiest way. Remember -- subject pronouns are I, he, she, they,
we, and who. Object pronouns are me, him, her, them, us, and whom (you and
it work for both). If you would use "me" in a sentence, then you would use
any other object pronoun in that part of the sentence. "John gave the book
to them" becomes "John gave the book to him and her." "John gave the book
to us" becomes "John gave the book to me and her." Get it? If John has a
book-giving friend, you might say, "John and he gave us the book." You
would say "They gave us the book," right? So just use the subject pronouns
that part of the sentence obviously calls for.

So, if you're vague about who did it, you're also vague about who they did
it for? And if you're specific about who did it, you're also specific
about who it's done for, correct? Not necessarily by name, but not as an
undefined group? (It helps for me to put things into my own words)

"John gave the book to me and her." I would say, "John gave the book to
her and me." Mom never let us put ourselves first in a case like that. We
were the leftovers. <G> I still have problems using "me" at the end of a
sentence. I have to think it through. My natural inclination is to say,
"So-and-so and, I." I think I get it right most of the time, but I'm
likely not 100%. (110% used to drive my mathematical genius father insane.
"There IS only 100%. You can't HAVE more than 100%!"

Sheesh! With those parents, no wonder I'm so anal about certain things!
Don't tell anyone, but when I had spice racks for the wall, I used to
alphabetize my herbs and spices. Now I have turntables (unalphabetized).
One is for herbs, one is for spices. Woe be unto anyone who wants to cook
in my kitchen and doesn't know the difference! LOL!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I also end a lot of sentences with prepositions, without the phrase
that should follow.

There is NOTHING WRONG with ending your sentence with a prepositon.
NOTHING. Don't worry about it. I know you have been told otherwise, but
the people who told you were wrong. However, there is no need to add
prepositions. Don't say, "Where is he at" if you can just say "Where is
he?"

Oh, that one drives me nuts! Ya know, I'm usually like a sponge, picking
up other people's speech patterns and accents. Crash and I have been
together for 9 years now. I never say "don't" when I mean "doesn't." I
never say "ain't" unless it's in a joking manner. There are more, but I've
become so used to hearing them that they don't make me homicidal anymore.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Another question. This is just how I am, so I'm not likely to
change, but when I say "gonna, sorta, kinda," etc., does that drive
you, as an English teacher, bonkers?

Not at all. I have no problem with that. You are aware of what you are
doing. However, I do get irritated when people don't know the rules of
grammar and say things like "Him and I left." Oh, lord! Leave, by all
means! Actually, as I have said before -- it's the grammar that gets to
me -- not the person. Feel free to write in conversational English. Just
be aware of the rules of grammar when you do so.

Quoted message said:

I tend to write in
conversational tones. Some people find that down-to-earth. Others
find it insufferable. Just curious what your take on it is.

Again, it doesn't bother me at all. I don't care if someone uses argot.
People should still respect basic grammar, however.

Another pet peeve. "I could care less."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think that I use too many commas, compared to most people.

Well, so do I.

Cool!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm not
sure if I use too many, or if everyone else uses too few. I
intentionally leave them out in places where I know they belong, just
so I don't look like a freak to the general population.

It will take more than that to make you look like a freak! Don't worry
about it! Now, go buy my favorite grammar book, _Woe is I_, by Patricia T.
O'Conner. It's great and it will answer all your questions. You should also
get Strunk and White's _The Elements of Style_.

_Woe is I_. LOL! I love it! I know a couple other people who swear by
Strunk and White. I'll look into these as soon as I can afford them, or as
soon as I can get over to the library.

Thanks!
Carol
--
Fasting BG: 86
Bernstein Diabetes Solution 5/25/2004
Diabetes Dx 5/15/2001

What a surprise that you hear voices in your head.

--
Did it ever occur to you that you are a hemorrhoid on the anus of
society? -- MFW

"Damsel in dis Dress" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Would you be willing to help me out with a couple of things? (I almost
started that sentence with, "Can," but I hear echoes of my mom's voice
saying, "Yes, I can. Would you like me to?"😉

I'll start by saying that when I hear "whom" or "shall," I think the
person sounds pretentious. I know when "shall" should be used, but I
prefer, "I'm gonna." Minnesota Casual?

When is "whom" proper?

I have a handicap where this discussion is concerned. I know the very
basic parts of speech (noun, verb, adjective, adverb, preposition, and
that's about it). I learned what I know by my parents' examples and by
reading a LOT when I was growing up. The names of the parts of speech
never seemed very relevant to me.

I also end a lot of sentences with prepositions, without the phrase that
should follow. It's another case of doing it properly sounding

pretentious

Quoted message said:

(to me, at least). You've gotta know that I come from an area where the
proper pronunciation of "croissant," will generate a blank stare, or a
snooty look that says they think you're being uppity. You say,

"cru-sont,"

Quoted message said:

or you're not going to get what you're trying to order.

Another question. This is just how I am, so I'm not likely to change, but
when I say "gonna, sorta, kinda," etc., does that drive you, as an English
teacher, bonkers? I tend to write in conversational tones. Some people
find that down-to-earth. Others find it insufferable. Just curious what
your take on it is.

I think that I use too many commas, compared to most people. I'm not sure
if I use too many, or if everyone else uses too few. I intentionally

leave

Quoted message said:

them out in places where I know they belong, just so I don't look like a
freak to the general population.

Thanks for any insight,
Carol
--
Fasting BG: 102
Bernstein Diabetes Solution 5/25/2004
Diabetes Dx 5/15/2001

Damsel in dis Dress said:

nimue said:

Quoted message said:

When is "whom" proper?

"Whom" is an object pronoun. Use "whom" whenever you would use
another object pronoun, such as me, him, her, us, or them.
Therefore, if you are going to say "Who has the book" and you aren't
sure whether to use "who" or "whom" just plug in alternative object
or subject pronouns and find out. You would say "He has the book,"
wouldn't you? Then obviously that calls for a subject pronoun (I,
he, she, they, we, who). What if you wanted to ask who got the book
(he got the book)? Then you would say "To whom did you give the
book?" Wouldn't you say "I gave the book to him," right.

Okay, I *think* I've got that. Next time I have occasion to use it,
I'll give it a shot. Makes me nervous, because I don't think I've
ever used that word in a sentence.

Quoted message said:

Basically, finding out which pronoun to use is a matter of
plugging-in -- that's the easiest way. Remember -- subject pronouns
are I, he, she, they, we, and who. Object pronouns are me, him,
her, them, us, and whom (you and it work for both). If you would
use "me" in a sentence, then you would use any other object pronoun
in that part of the sentence. "John gave the book to them" becomes
"John gave the book to him and her." "John gave the book to us"
becomes "John gave the book to me and her." Get it? If John has a
book-giving friend, you might say, "John and he gave us the book."
You would say "They gave us the book," right? So just use the
subject pronouns that part of the sentence obviously calls for.

So, if you're vague about who did it, you're also vague about who
they did it for? And if you're specific about who did it, you're
also specific about who it's done for, correct? Not necessarily by
name, but not as an undefined group? (It helps for me to put things
into my own words)

Um -- no. I am not exactly sure what you mean, but I am pretty sure the
answer is no. Whether you use "who" or "whom" depends on what part of the
sentence the pronoun is in. If it's part of the subject, it's "who." If
it's an object or an indirect object or follows a preposition then you would
use an object pronoun. "I gave the book to him." "I" is the subject.
"Him" in the indirect object. If you were to use another pronoun instead of
I, you would use a subject pronoun such as he, she, we, they, or who. If
you were to use another pronoun other that "him" you would use an object
pronoun such as me, her, us, them, or whom.

Quoted message said:

"John gave the book to me and her." I would say, "John gave the book
to her and me." Mom never let us put ourselves first in a case like
that. We were the leftovers. <G> I still have problems using "me"
at the end of a sentence. I have to think it through. My natural
inclination is to say, "So-and-so and, I."

Listen, you would say, "Give the book to us," right? "Us" is an object
pronoun. Therefore, if you broke it up and said, "Give the book to him and
me," you would be using the object pronouns you are supposed to use. It
doesn't matter that it is the end of a sentence. It's a prepostional phrase
and it calls for object pronouns. Get over that incorrect belief that it's
correct to say, "Give the book to him and I." You wouldn't say "Give the
book to I," would you? No! You would correctly say, "Give the book to
me." Therefore, you should say, "Give to book to John and me."

Quoted message said:

I think I get it right
most of the time, but I'm likely not 100%. (110% used to drive my
mathematical genius father insane. "There IS only 100%. You can't
HAVE more than 100%!"

Math? Math? What's that?

Quoted message said:

Sheesh! With those parents, no wonder I'm so anal about certain
things! Don't tell anyone, but when I had spice racks for the wall, I
used to alphabetize my herbs and spices. Now I have turntables
(unalphabetized). One is for herbs, one is for spices. Woe be unto
anyone who wants to cook in my kitchen and doesn't know the
difference! LOL!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I also end a lot of sentences with prepositions, without the phrase
that should follow.

There is NOTHING WRONG with ending your sentence with a prepositon.
NOTHING. Don't worry about it. I know you have been told
otherwise, but the people who told you were wrong. However, there
is no need to add prepositions. Don't say, "Where is he at" if you
can just say "Where is he?"

Oh, that one drives me nuts! Ya know, I'm usually like a sponge,
picking up other people's speech patterns and accents. Crash and I
have been together for 9 years now. I never say "don't" when I mean
"doesn't." I never say "ain't" unless it's in a joking manner.
There are more, but I've become so used to hearing them that they
don't make me homicidal anymore.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Another question. This is just how I am, so I'm not likely to
change, but when I say "gonna, sorta, kinda," etc., does that drive
you, as an English teacher, bonkers?

Not at all. I have no problem with that. You are aware of what you
are doing. However, I do get irritated when people don't know the
rules of grammar and say things like "Him and I left." Oh, lord!
Leave, by all means! Actually, as I have said before -- it's the
grammar that gets to me -- not the person. Feel free to write in
conversational English. Just be aware of the rules of grammar when
you do so.

Quoted message said:

I tend to write in
conversational tones. Some people find that down-to-earth. Others
find it insufferable. Just curious what your take on it is.

Again, it doesn't bother me at all. I don't care if someone uses
argot. People should still respect basic grammar, however.

Another pet peeve. "I could care less."

Grrrrrr.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think that I use too many commas, compared to most people.

Well, so do I.

Cool!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm not
sure if I use too many, or if everyone else uses too few. I
intentionally leave them out in places where I know they belong,
just so I don't look like a freak to the general population.

It will take more than that to make you look like a freak! Don't
worry about it! Now, go buy my favorite grammar book, _Woe is I_,
by Patricia T. O'Conner. It's great and it will answer all your
questions. You should also get Strunk and White's _The Elements of
Style_.

_Woe is I_. LOL! I love it! I know a couple other people who swear
by Strunk and White. I'll look into these as soon as I can afford
them, or as soon as I can get over to the library.

Thanks!
Carol

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

Carol,

The conversation here reminded me of a book that I 'casually' read this
summer. It's called "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" by Lynne Truss. She's a
British journalist who has written about how people have mangled the meaning
of phrases by misplacing punctuation marks. Here is a link to the
Amazon.com review.

If you can follow the dry British humor, you would enjoy it and it might
tell you some more about grammar and punctuation.

--
Linda
296/213/160
LC since Oct. 13, 2003
http://home.att.net/~lewis_linda/index.html

"Damsel in dis Dress" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Would you be willing to help me out with a couple of things? (I almost
started that sentence with, "Can," but I hear echoes of my mom's voice
saying, "Yes, I can. Would you like me to?"😉

I'll start by saying that when I hear "whom" or "shall," I think the
person sounds pretentious. I know when "shall" should be used, but I
prefer, "I'm gonna." Minnesota Casual?

When is "whom" proper?

I have a handicap where this discussion is concerned. I know the very
basic parts of speech (noun, verb, adjective, adverb, preposition, and
that's about it). I learned what I know by my parents' examples and by
reading a LOT when I was growing up. The names of the parts of speech
never seemed very relevant to me.

I also end a lot of sentences with prepositions, without the phrase that
should follow. It's another case of doing it properly sounding

pretentious

Quoted message said:

(to me, at least). You've gotta know that I come from an area where the
proper pronunciation of "croissant," will generate a blank stare, or a
snooty look that says they think you're being uppity. You say,

"cru-sont,"

Quoted message said:

or you're not going to get what you're trying to order.

Another question. This is just how I am, so I'm not likely to change, but
when I say "gonna, sorta, kinda," etc., does that drive you, as an English
teacher, bonkers? I tend to write in conversational tones. Some people
find that down-to-earth. Others find it insufferable. Just curious what
your take on it is.

I think that I use too many commas, compared to most people. I'm not sure
if I use too many, or if everyone else uses too few. I intentionally

leave

Quoted message said:

them out in places where I know they belong, just so I don't look like a
freak to the general population.

Thanks for any insight,
Carol
--
Fasting BG: 102
Bernstein Diabetes Solution 5/25/2004
Diabetes Dx 5/15/2001

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:19:45 -0500, Damsel in dis Dress
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Hi Carol

[snip]

Quoted message said:

When is "whom" proper?

I'll second Linda's recommendation of "Eats, shoots and leaves", and
since she forgot it, I'll add the link to the Amazon review:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592400876/qid=1089819969/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/104-9736983-0431106?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

It really is a nice book, and even if one isn't particularly
interested in grammar, it is a nice read.

Ina

213/149/138
since 8/15/03, 5'8"
www.skreee.de

nimue said:

It will take more than that to make you look like a freak! Don't worry
about it! Now, go buy my favorite grammar book, _Woe is I_, by Patricia T.
O'Conner. It's great and it will answer all your questions. You should also
get Strunk and White's _The Elements of Style_.

Regarding _The Elements of Style_: This, along with _Word Power Made
Easy_, was the textbook we used in the first term of 8th grade
English.

I also add my recommendation to the rest of them for _Eats Shoots and
Leaves_ (note there is no comma in that title phrase in my copy of the
book). It's laugh out loud funny, and even if you're not a
dyed-in-the-wool grammarian, you are still likely to "get the jokes"
easily.

Crafting Mom said:

I also add my recommendation to the rest of them for _Eats Shoots and
Leaves_ (note there is no comma in that title phrase in my copy of the
book).

Heh, I looked again; there IS a comma, the panda bear on the ladder is
just standing there with a roller of white paint, erasing it.
LOL

Lady o' the house said:

Carol,

The conversation here reminded me of a book that I 'casually' read
this summer. It's called "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" by Lynne Truss.
She's a British journalist who has written about how people have
mangled the meaning of phrases by misplacing punctuation marks. Here
is a link to the Amazon.com review.

If you can follow the dry British humor, you would enjoy it and it
might tell you some more about grammar and punctuation.

Noooooooooooo!!!!!!! It will tell you about BRITISH punctuation which is
DIFFERENT from American punctuation. If you're not British, don't buy it.

Quoted message said:

"Damsel in dis Dress" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Would you be willing to help me out with a couple of things? (I
almost started that sentence with, "Can," but I hear echoes of my
mom's voice saying, "Yes, I can. Would you like me to?"😉

I'll start by saying that when I hear "whom" or "shall," I think the
person sounds pretentious. I know when "shall" should be used, but I
prefer, "I'm gonna." Minnesota Casual?

When is "whom" proper?

I have a handicap where this discussion is concerned. I know the
very basic parts of speech (noun, verb, adjective, adverb,
preposition, and that's about it). I learned what I know by my
parents' examples and by reading a LOT when I was growing up. The
names of the parts of speech never seemed very relevant to me.

I also end a lot of sentences with prepositions, without the phrase
that should follow. It's another case of doing it properly sounding
pretentious (to me, at least). You've gotta know that I come from
an area where the proper pronunciation of "croissant," will generate
a blank stare, or a snooty look that says they think you're being
uppity. You say, "cru-sont," or you're not going to get what you're
trying to order.

Another question. This is just how I am, so I'm not likely to
change, but when I say "gonna, sorta, kinda," etc., does that drive
you, as an English teacher, bonkers? I tend to write in
conversational tones. Some people find that down-to-earth. Others
find it insufferable. Just curious what your take on it is.

I think that I use too many commas, compared to most people. I'm
not sure if I use too many, or if everyone else uses too few. I
intentionally leave them out in places where I know they belong,
just so I don't look like a freak to the general population.

Thanks for any insight,
Carol
--
Fasting BG: 102
Bernstein Diabetes Solution 5/25/2004
Diabetes Dx 5/15/2001

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

Ina Hesmer said:

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:19:45 -0500, Damsel in dis Dress
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Hi Carol

[snip]

Quoted message said:

When is "whom" proper?

I'll second Linda's recommendation of "Eats, shoots and leaves", and
since she forgot it, I'll add the link to the Amazon review:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592400876/qid=1089819969/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/104-9736983-0431106?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Quoted message said:

It really is a nice book, and even if one isn't particularly
interested in grammar, it is a nice read.

Noooooooooooo! Get it out of your house at once! It will tell you to put
punctuation outside of quotation marks and all kind of things we just don't
do in America.

Quoted message said:

Ina

213/149/138
since 8/15/03, 5'8"
www.skreee.de

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon

Quoted message said:

nimue" [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Lady o' the house said:

Carol,

The conversation here reminded me of a book that I 'casually' read
this summer. It's called "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" by Lynne Truss.
She's a British journalist who has written about how people have
mangled the meaning of phrases by misplacing punctuation marks. Here
is a link to the Amazon.com review.

If you can follow the dry British humor, you would enjoy it and it
might tell you some more about grammar and punctuation.

Noooooooooooo!!!!!!! It will tell you about BRITISH punctuation which is
DIFFERENT from American punctuation. If you're not British, don't buy it.

Can I add my NOOOOOOOOOO!!!! of horror? Americans should not buy that book at
all. As a reviewer in the New Yorker said, a British woman lecturing Americans
on punctuation is like an American lecturing the French on sauces.

We! Punctuate! Differently! (Although seldom like I just did, but that was
for crazy, insane emphasis.)

Don't buy that book.

Daria
166/under 145/under 145
sugar-free since 2/1/04
low-carb since 2/17/04

Ina Hesmer said:

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:19:45 -0500, Damsel in dis Dress
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Hi Carol

[snip]

Quoted message said:

When is "whom" proper?

I'll second Linda's recommendation of "Eats, shoots and leaves", and
since she forgot it, I'll add the link to the Amazon review:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592400876/qid=1089819969/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/104-9736983-0431106?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

It really is a nice book, and even if one isn't particularly
interested in grammar, it is a nice read.

Ina

213/149/138

Down 64 pounds? That's fabulous, Ina! I'll look at the review on Monday.
We have company coming for the weekend, and I'm using up precious cleaning
time, reading the newsgroup. <G> Thanks for the link!

Carol
--
Fasting BG: 86
Bernstein Diabetes Solution 5/25/2004
Diabetes Dx 5/15/2001

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:44:43 GMT, "nimue" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Lady o' the house said:

Carol,

The conversation here reminded me of a book that I 'casually' read
this summer. It's called "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" by Lynne Truss.
She's a British journalist who has written about how people have
mangled the meaning of phrases by misplacing punctuation marks. Here
is a link to the Amazon.com review.

If you can follow the dry British humor, you would enjoy it and it
might tell you some more about grammar and punctuation.

British humor flies right past me, unfortunately.

Quoted message said:

Noooooooooooo!!!!!!! It will tell you about BRITISH punctuation which is
DIFFERENT from American punctuation. If you're not British, don't buy it.

Okey-dokey. You've convinced me. :-)

Carol
--
Fasting BG: 86
Bernstein Diabetes Solution 5/25/2004
Diabetes Dx 5/15/2001

On Wed, 14 Jul 2004 16:45:28 GMT, "nimue" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ina Hesmer said:

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:19:45 -0500, Damsel in dis Dress
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Hi Carol

[snip]

Quoted message said:

When is "whom" proper?

I'll second Linda's recommendation of "Eats, shoots and leaves", and
since she forgot it, I'll add the link to the Amazon review:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592400876/qid=1089819969/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/104-9736983-0431106?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Quoted message said:

It really is a nice book, and even if one isn't particularly
interested in grammar, it is a nice read.

Noooooooooooo! Get it out of your house at once! It will tell you to put
punctuation outside of quotation marks and all kind of things we just don't
do in America.

LOL! How do you REALLY feel, nimue?

Carol
--
Fasting BG: 86
Bernstein Diabetes Solution 5/25/2004
Diabetes Dx 5/15/2001

(DG511) said:

Can I add my NOOOOOOOOOO!!!! of horror? Americans should not buy that book at
all. As a reviewer in the New Yorker said, a British woman lecturing Americans
on punctuation is like an American lecturing the French on sauces.

We! Punctuate! Differently! (Although seldom like I just did, but that was
for crazy, insane emphasis.)

Don't buy that book.

Okay, Daria. I promise not to buy that book. If I ever see a copy, I'll
burn it immediately. LOL!

Carol
--
Fasting BG: 86
Bernstein Diabetes Solution 5/25/2004
Diabetes Dx 5/15/2001

Quoted message said:

Damsel in dis Dress [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

(DG511) said:

Can I add my NOOOOOOOOOO!!!! of horror? Americans should not buy that book

at

Quoted message said:

all. As a reviewer in the New Yorker said, a British woman lecturing

Americans

Quoted message said:

on punctuation is like an American lecturing the French on sauces.

We! Punctuate! Differently! (Although seldom like I just did, but that

was

Quoted message said:

for crazy, insane emphasis.)

Don't buy that book.

Okay, Daria. I promise not to buy that book. If I ever see a copy, I'll
burn it immediately. LOL!

Hee! Just dumping it into a recycling bin would probably suffice.

Daria
166/under 145/under 145
sugar-free since 2/1/04
low-carb since 2/17/04

Damsel in dis Dress said:

nimue said:

Ina Hesmer said:

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 23:19:45 -0500, Damsel in dis Dress
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Hi Carol

[snip]

> When is "whom" proper?

I'll second Linda's recommendation of "Eats, shoots and leaves", and
since she forgot it, I'll add the link to the Amazon review:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1592400876/qid=1089819969/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/104-9736983-0431106?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It really is a nice book, and even if one isn't particularly
interested in grammar, it is a nice read.

Noooooooooooo! Get it out of your house at once! It will tell you
to put punctuation outside of quotation marks and all kind of things
we just don't do in America.

LOL! How do you REALLY feel, nimue?

I know, I know -- I am just so shy and low-key. I really should do
something about it. :-)

Quoted message said:

Carol

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF."
Joss Whedon