OT: for the photographers.

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

http://www.salatshots.com/index.php

which someone pointed me at. Just so they can weep with frustration at
what some folks can do with a) old fashioned technology and b) the
ideal location.

Terrific stuff! Pity he doesn't give any details about exposures etc.
(not that we could take photos like that this far south). Obviously he
uses some very wide lenses.

In spite of his insistence on using film, I'd like to stress that
there's no reason whatsoever why these same photos couldn't be taken on
digital, so don't assume that film is the only option for these kind of
shots. It may have some advantages when working in a very cold climate,
but so does digital (blah de blah de blah...)

He says that there are no digital enhancements, and of course there
couldn't be if he's having traditional prints made direct from film, but
that's not strictly correct regarding his web images. A certain amount
of "enhancement" is necessary to make a film scan look like the original
slide, they don't come out of the scanner looking like that! But still,
that doesn't apply to his prints.

The book looks like it may be worth buying, thanks for the heads up.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Paul Saunders said:

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

http://www.salatshots.com/index.php

which someone pointed me at. Just so they can weep with frustration at
what some folks can do with a) old fashioned technology and b) the
ideal location.

Terrific stuff! Pity he doesn't give any details about exposures etc.
(not that we could take photos like that this far south). Obviously he
uses some very wide lenses.

One to tens of seconds is about right. Remember auroras move so too long
and you lose the fine detailed structure

Quoted message said:

In spite of his insistence on using film, I'd like to stress that
there's no reason whatsoever why these same photos couldn't be taken on
digital, so don't assume that film is the only option for these kind of
shots. It may have some advantages when working in a very cold climate,
but so does digital (blah de blah de blah...)

Your batteries would freeze solid - and I've had it happen to me in the
Alps. However my K1000 with graphite lube kept on shooting at about -30!

Chris Street said:

One to tens of seconds is about right. Remember auroras move so too
long and you lose the fine detailed structure

Remember? I've never even seen one!

Quoted message said:

Your batteries would freeze solid - and I've had it happen to me in
the Alps.

Really? I read about someone using a digital camera successfully in the
Himalayas over a period of three weeks. I think the trick is to keep
all your batteries warm (inside your clothing) and only put them into
the camera when you're taking photos. Don't leave the batteries in the
camera when not in use (I made that mistake on the Llyn y Fan Fawr
expedition).

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Paul Saunders said:

Chris Street said:

One to tens of seconds is about right. Remember auroras move so too
long and you lose the fine detailed structure

Remember? I've never even seen one!

Quoted message said:

Your batteries would freeze solid - and I've had it happen to me in
the Alps.

Really? I read about someone using a digital camera successfully in the
Himalayas over a period of three weeks. I think the trick is to keep
all your batteries warm (inside your clothing) and only put them into
the camera when you're taking photos. Don't leave the batteries in the
camera when not in use (I made that mistake on the Llyn y Fan Fawr
expedition).

The trick is lithium cells, not alkalines. Alkalines get totally hammered
at about -20. Lithums lose loads of capacity but at least they still work!

Quoted message said:

Paul

Chris Street said:

The trick is lithium cells, not alkalines. Alkalines get totally
hammered at about -20. Lithums lose loads of capacity but at least
they still work!

Yes, I was assuming lithium.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

I gather we have some (semi) Pro photographers who hang around here
('defraying the cost of their equipment', honest gov), so I thought I
might point them at:

http://www.salatshots.com/index.php

which someone pointed me at. Just so they can weep with frustration at
what some folks can do with a) old fashioned technology and b) the ideal
location. No relationship with the owner, and no, I can't afford his
30*40 limited edition prints either. 8>.

Does for =my= 'landscape snaps' what the HST did for amateur astronomy.

WOW

if anyone want to buy some Canon gear, mine might be on ebay in a few
minutes!

--
Darren

Darren G said:

WOW

if anyone want to buy some Canon gear, mine might be on ebay in a few
minutes!

As I already said, there's no reason why you couldn't take photos like
that with digital gear. It's not the camera, or the format, it's the
photographer.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful person
Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

Darren G said:

WOW

if anyone want to buy some Canon gear, mine might be on ebay in a few
minutes!

As I already said, there's no reason why you couldn't take photos like
that with digital gear. It's not the camera, or the format, it's the
photographer.

And the location .. don't forget the location! Stick the poor guy in SE
England and even he couldn't do it (although he'd probably find
something to make marvellous pictures of).

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

In article <[email hidden]>, pvs1
@wildwales.fsnet.co.uk says...

Quoted message said:

Darren G said:

WOW

if anyone want to buy some Canon gear, mine might be on ebay in a few
minutes!

As I already said, there's no reason why you couldn't take photos like
that with digital gear. It's not the camera, or the format, it's the
photographer.

that's the bit that was worrying me :-)

--
Darren

"GSV Three Minds in a Can" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I gather we have some (semi) Pro photographers who hang around here
('defraying the cost of their equipment', honest gov), so I thought I might
point them at:

http://www.salatshots.com/index.php

which someone pointed me at. Just so they can weep with frustration at
what some folks can do with a) old fashioned technology and b) the ideal
location. No relationship with the owner, and no, I can't afford his 30*40
limited edition prints either. 8>.

Does for =my= 'landscape snaps' what the HST did for amateur astronomy.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Outgoing Msgs are Turing Tested,and indistinguishable from human typing.

Bugger. Just had a look and its enough to make you give up trying. It makes
so much of Britain look so prosaic, these are pictures of extraordinary
beauty and the words just help to set the scene and describe the perfection.

How does this guy support all his trips though?! It makes you want to give
up the rat race and just keep heading north.

Woollyzone said:

Bugger. Just had a look and its enough to make you give up trying.

No! No! It's suppose to inspire you to take better photos! Think
positively! To quote Anthony Hopkins (The Edge) "If one man can do it,
then so can another man!"

Quoted message said:

It makes so much of Britain look so prosaic,

I bet much of Alaska looks pretty tedious and boring when you live
there. Ice, snow, spruce tree, ice, snow, spruce tree, ice, snow,
spruce tree... Yawn...

Seriously, photos of faraway places tend to look so appealing because we
don't see them on a daily basis. Galen Rowell once spent 3 months in
the ice and snow (Himalayas I think) and when he returned he was amazed
at how wonderful the colour of grass was. He took a photo of the
greenest, most verdant grass he'd ever seen in his life, yet when the
photo was developed, it just looked like ordinary grass again.

Come to think of it, I once met an Australian above Porth yr Ogof Caves.
Caves aside, I was curious about what he thought of the area and he said
he loved the scenery. I pointed out that there were far more
interesting things to see than the boring trees and fields that we were
looking at, but he then pointed out that where he came from, he never
saw anything like that.

Different perceptions, it all depends what you're used to.

Quoted message said:

these are pictures of
extraordinary beauty and the words just help to set the scene and
describe the perfection.

Oh I agree absolutely, but photos are photos and reality often isn't
quite so appealing. I've received emails from people in other parts of
the world commenting on the beauty of my Wales photos and saying that
they must visit sometime. My reaction is to think, "well you won't see
many scenes like when you get here, not in that light!", but then again,
maybe they'll see something different in the everyday landscape that I
can't see?

Quoted message said:

How does this guy support all his trips though?!

Because he's a professional photographer? He's probably got other
sources of photographic income besides his web site. In fact, there
aren't many photos for sale on there. Maybe he sells a lot of books? I
may buy one myself.

Quoted message said:

It makes you want to
give up the rat race and just keep heading north.

Perhaps, Alaska sounds pretty appealing to me too, but could you really
handle ice, snow, spruce trees and cold temperatures *all* the time?

The blandness of the UK may start to seem appealing after a few years of
that.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Woollyzone wrote:

I bet much of Alaska looks pretty tedious and boring when you live
there. Ice, snow, spruce tree, ice, snow, spruce tree, ice, snow,
spruce tree... Yawn...

I'd like to find out just how tedious it is though... !

Quoted message said:

Seriously, photos of faraway places tend to look so appealing because we
don't see them on a daily basis. Galen Rowell once spent 3 months in
the ice and snow (Himalayas I think) and when he returned he was amazed
at how wonderful the colour of grass was. He took a photo of the
greenest, most verdant grass he'd ever seen in his life, yet when the
photo was developed, it just looked like ordinary grass again.

This if of course absolutely true, and though I've never spent any real time
in truly cold places, I've tried to imagine what a 6 month stretch in the
Antarctic, for instance, would be like, and came to the conclusion that it
wouldn't be very long before the harsh beauty of such a place would have me
hankering for green-ness, rain, and some variation in colour. I've even felt
like this after a week in Greece before!

Quoted message said:

Oh I agree absolutely, but photos are photos and reality often isn't
quite so appealing. I've received emails from people in other parts of
the world commenting on the beauty of my Wales photos and saying that
they must visit sometime. My reaction is to think, "well you won't see
many scenes like when you get here, not in that light!", but then again,
maybe they'll see something different in the everyday landscape that I
can't see?

I'm very impressed with the pictures you've got of Wales, but I realise that
you've put yourself out there much more so than the casual visitor, and put
in a lot of legwork and effort, at various times of the day/year etc, and
wish I could get there more often and spend more time there. I'm hoping to
grab a few days in Snowdonia in a couple of weeks, but will be a day-walker,
so will need a lot of luck to see it at its best!

Quoted message said:

Perhaps, Alaska sounds pretty appealing to me too, but could you really
handle ice, snow, spruce trees and cold temperatures *all* the time?

Not all the time, no! But I'm planning to get a taste of something similar
by paying a visit to Northern Norway in January, and hope to see some aurora
there. Perhaps I'll find out whether -20C is as appealing as it seems from
the comfort of my living room!

Quoted message said:

The blandness of the UK may start to seem appealing after a few years of
that.

True again.

Woollyzone said:

Quoted message said:

I bet much of Alaska looks pretty tedious and boring when you live
there. Ice, snow, spruce tree, ice, snow, spruce tree, ice, snow,
spruce tree... Yawn...

I'd like to find out just how tedious it is though... !

I wonder about that too. I must admit that I have a yearning to live in
a colder part of the world, the UK is too warm for me. The summers are
too hot and the winters too wimpy. I'd like 3 solid months of snow at
the very least, and pleasantly warm summer temperatures, never going
over 25 degrees.

Quoted message said:

This if of course absolutely true, and though I've never spent any
real time in truly cold places, I've tried to imagine what a 6 month
stretch in the Antarctic, for instance, would be like, and came to
the conclusion that it wouldn't be very long before the harsh beauty
of such a place would have me hankering for green-ness, rain, and
some variation in colour.

The thought of spending time in Antarctica has often crossed my mind
too. It's typically a one year thing, isn't it? I think I'd handle it
really well, I'm convinced I have the right mindset. I'm sure the
constant cold would get tedious, but I'm sure I could handle it. I'm a
bit of a loner and I couldn't care less about socialising. Spending
long hours in the dark in front of a computer sounds great to me.

Quoted message said:

I've even felt like this after a week in
Greece before!

Well there you go then!

Quoted message said:

I'm very impressed with the pictures you've got of Wales,

Thank you.

Quoted message said:

but I
realise that you've put yourself out there much more so than the
casual visitor, and put in a lot of legwork and effort, at various
times of the day/year etc,

Well that's the whole point, it's all about dedication and commitment.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy walking and camping in the hills even when
the weather's [censored], but I don't come home with excellent photos after
every trip, perhaps only one in three. In think it's the fact that I
enjoy being out there no matter what the weather that makes the
difference. That's why I keep going back. I enjoy the experience even
if I don't get any good photos.

Of course, having the mountains on my doorstep makes it so much easier.

Quoted message said:

and wish I could get there more often and
spend more time there. I'm hoping to grab a few days in Snowdonia in
a couple of weeks, but will be a day-walker, so will need a lot of
luck to see it at its best!

Most of my Snowdonia shots were luck shots, because I don't get up there
that often, not as often as I'd like to. I really should go and live up
there.

Quoted message said:

Not all the time, no! But I'm planning to get a taste of something
similar by paying a visit to Northern Norway in January, and hope to
see some aurora there.

Good luck to you!

Quoted message said:

Perhaps I'll find out whether -20C is as
appealing as it seems from the comfort of my living room!

The worst I've camped out in was -10C, and that wasn't too pleasant.
Great fun sitting next to the camp fire looking at the stars (toasty
front, icy back), but retreating to the tent wasn't much fun, even with
a hot rock from the fire in the porch to help keep the temperature up.
I had a bit of a cold at the time and breathing in that icy cold air
with every breath was not fun at all. My chest was hoarse the next
morning, but the landscape looked brilliant.

I have a photo somewhere but I can't find it offhand, sorry.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Woollyzone said:

Quoted message said:

I bet much of Alaska looks pretty tedious and boring when you live
there. Ice, snow, spruce tree, ice, snow, spruce tree, ice, snow,
spruce tree... Yawn...

I'd like to find out just how tedious it is though... !

I wonder about that too. I must admit that I have a yearning to live in
a colder part of the world, the UK is too warm for me. The summers are
too hot and the winters too wimpy. I'd like 3 solid months of snow at
the very least, and pleasantly warm summer temperatures, never going
over 25 degrees.

I sometimes think that too, though I think it would be nice to live somwhere
where the seasons are more well defined and more polarised.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This if of course absolutely true, and though I've never spent any
real time in truly cold places, I've tried to imagine what a 6 month
stretch in the Antarctic, for instance, would be like, and came to
the conclusion that it wouldn't be very long before the harsh beauty
of such a place would have me hankering for green-ness, rain, and
some variation in colour.

The thought of spending time in Antarctica has often crossed my mind
too. It's typically a one year thing, isn't it? I think I'd handle it
really well, I'm convinced I have the right mindset. I'm sure the
constant cold would get tedious, but I'm sure I could handle it. I'm a
bit of a loner and I couldn't care less about socialising. Spending
long hours in the dark in front of a computer sounds great to me.

I made tentative enquiries at the British Antarctic Survey earlier in the
year, and I think the stretches can be 3, 6, 9 or 12 months. Sadly however,
I don't have any particular skills that they are currently looking for! -
(not even to act as chef) :-( I would love to do a full year for the
experience, it really appeals to me and like you, I am a bit of a loner,
(though a sociable one too, if that doesn't sound too much of a
contradiction! - people are fine as long as you can put them at a good arm's
length when you want to). The irony about Antarctica is that to a certain
extent, while you are surrounded by the biggest wilderness in the world, I
think it could be quite claustrophobic at times, particularly in the depths
of winter. Where as normally when you need to get away from other people,
you can just do it - not so sure you could just go for a walk in -60C! I
also think that they would put quite a lot of emphasis on team-work (which I
don't have a problem with in theory!) and integration with other workers, as
it would be crucial to the work that they do, so it may actually not be the
best environment for a loner after all, despite the apparent appeal. I'd
still do it though!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've even felt like this after a week in
Greece before!

Well there you go then!

Quoted message said:

I'm very impressed with the pictures you've got of Wales,

Thank you.

Quoted message said:

but I
realise that you've put yourself out there much more so than the
casual visitor, and put in a lot of legwork and effort, at various
times of the day/year etc,

Well that's the whole point, it's all about dedication and commitment.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy walking and camping in the hills even when
the weather's [censored], but I don't come home with excellent photos after
every trip, perhaps only one in three. In think it's the fact that I
enjoy being out there no matter what the weather that makes the
difference. That's why I keep going back. I enjoy the experience even
if I don't get any good photos.

Its a good point that it is wrong to define trips by the photographs taken,
it is all about the feelings the hills give you at the time you are there,
and the memories. I find the photos help my flawed memory though!

Quoted message said:

Of course, having the mountains on my doorstep makes it so much easier.

Quoted message said:

and wish I could get there more often and
spend more time there. I'm hoping to grab a few days in Snowdonia in
a couple of weeks, but will be a day-walker, so will need a lot of
luck to see it at its best!

Most of my Snowdonia shots were luck shots, because I don't get up there
that often, not as often as I'd like to. I really should go and live up
there.

Quoted message said:

Not all the time, no! But I'm planning to get a taste of something
similar by paying a visit to Northern Norway in January, and hope to
see some aurora there.

Good luck to you!

The 3 others I'm going with went last winter and they said they saw aurora
on a few occasions in only one week there, so I am hopeful.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Perhaps I'll find out whether -20C is as
appealing as it seems from the comfort of my living room!

The worst I've camped out in was -10C, and that wasn't too pleasant.
Great fun sitting next to the camp fire looking at the stars (toasty
front, icy back), but retreating to the tent wasn't much fun, even with
a hot rock from the fire in the porch to help keep the temperature up.
I had a bit of a cold at the time and breathing in that icy cold air
with every breath was not fun at all. My chest was hoarse the next
morning, but the landscape looked brilliant.

Never camped at much less than about -3C and that was too cold for the
not-exactly-top-of-the-range gear that I have. I will be in a log cabin in
Norway in January!

Quoted message said:

I have a photo somewhere but I can't find it offhand, sorry.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk

On 14/10/04 9:00 pm, in article [email hidden],

Woollyzone said:

I'm very impressed with the pictures you've got of Wales, but I realise that
you've put yourself out there much more so than the casual visitor, and put
in a lot of legwork and effort, at various times of the day/year etc, and
wish I could get there more often and spend more time there. I'm hoping to
grab a few days in Snowdonia in a couple of weeks, but will be a day-walker,
so will need a lot of luck to see it at its best!

Early starts and late finishes make a big difference; I'm sure Paul will
respond on this. This is why the best photos I ever take are when wild
camping in the Pyrenees - you just have to stick your head out of the tent
and the odds are that there will be something fascinating to look at!

Quoted message said:

Not all the time, no! But I'm planning to get a taste of something similar
by paying a visit to Northern Norway in January, and hope to see some aurora
there. Perhaps I'll find out whether -20C is as appealing as it seems from
the comfort of my living room!

Get up early on a coupe of days! Mind you, is there any daylight in Norway
in January?

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

"Andy Howell" <andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk> wrote in message
news:BD95F22A.38D6D%andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk...

Quoted message said:

On 14/10/04 9:00 pm, in article [email hidden],

Woollyzone said:

I'm very impressed with the pictures you've got of Wales, but I realise
that
you've put yourself out there much more so than the casual visitor, and
put
in a lot of legwork and effort, at various times of the day/year etc, and
wish I could get there more often and spend more time there. I'm hoping
to
grab a few days in Snowdonia in a couple of weeks, but will be a
day-walker,
so will need a lot of luck to see it at its best!

Early starts and late finishes make a big difference; I'm sure Paul will
respond on this. This is why the best photos I ever take are when wild
camping in the Pyrenees - you just have to stick your head out of the tent
and the odds are that there will be something fascinating to look at!

I've got to start making the effort to put myself out there - I've been
compromising too much for people who do not have the true adventurous spirit
in their bones.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not all the time, no! But I'm planning to get a taste of something
similar
by paying a visit to Northern Norway in January, and hope to see some
aurora
there. Perhaps I'll find out whether -20C is as appealing as it seems
from
the comfort of my living room!

Get up early on a coupe of days! Mind you, is there any daylight in
Norway
in January?

I think there may be a couple of hours of daylight, with a few hours of
afterglow either side of sunset/rise. I'm not sure really, but it'll be
different either way!

On 15/10/04 9:46 pm, in article [email hidden],

Woollyzone said:

I think there may be a couple of hours of daylight, with a few hours of
afterglow either side of sunset/rise. I'm not sure really, but it'll be
different either way!

Great. You won't have to get up that early in the morning!

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK

"Andy Howell" <andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk> wrote in message
news:BD95F62F.38D80%andy.howellNOSPAM@ecotrendDOTorgDOTuk...

Quoted message said:

On 15/10/04 9:46 pm, in article [email hidden],

Woollyzone said:

I think there may be a couple of hours of daylight, with a few hours of
afterglow either side of sunset/rise. I'm not sure really, but it'll be
different either way!

Great. You won't have to get up that early in the morning!

Result! I am a world leading exponent of not getting up very early!

On 15/10/04 9:51 pm, in article [email hidden],

Woollyzone said:

Result! I am a world leading exponent of not getting up very early!

These strange northern countries are very off. I was in Helsinki a couple
of summers ago (great city - if you get a chance to go, go!). There was no
night time, for a couple of hours things got a little murky but that was
all. This had strange effects in that people developed their own time
routines.

The morning I left I had to leave my hotel at 6.00 am to get to the airport.
As the taxi took me through Helsinki I saw a few women staggering home from
the nightclubs and a family out on bikes with their picnics on the back!

--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK