OT: European Vacation

Jay Beattie said:

Where would you go if you had three weeks to visit Europe? More
car/train etc. than bicycle since it will involve family. Thanks. --
Jay Beattie.

Paris, Berlin, Muenchen, Wein, Salzburg, Roma, Milano, Budapest, Madrid,
London. Any or all of the above, and of course, many other great cities
as well.

Visit some old villages wherever you can.

Take the TGV train, use the Chunnel (Channel Tunnel) or maybe a
hovercraft to cross the channel.

Walk, walk, walk!

From what I've heard, if you get to go for a ride, do it in Italia.
Supposedly, they treat cyclists like royalty.

Note: I only know about half of what I'm saying. You'll no doubt get
good alternate advice as well.

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Jay Beattie said:

Where would you go if you had three weeks to visit Europe? More
car/train etc. than bicycle since it will involve family. Thanks. --
Jay Beattie.

My only visit to Europe we spent all three weeks on a
walking tour of Paris. We were happy; made a good choice.

--
Michael Press

We visited Italy in the Fall of 2004. We loved it. I don't know what
your budget is, but Italy tends to be a little more affordable. The
Trenitalia pass (part of Eurail, but cheaper if purchased for Italy
only) was nice for getting around by train. All the major cities have
great mass transit. If you are anti-car, you MUST visit Venice. It's
like being on another planet - no car sounds. You don't realize how
peaceful it is, until you leave, and start dodging mopeds in Roma. I
also highly recommend Sicily. The train actually pulls onto the ferry!
That's amazing to watch. Taormina is pricey but absolutely beautiful.
When we were there Mount Etna was glowing red on one side, and
panoramic ocean views on the other.

I hope I whetted your appetite for Italy! My main advice would be to
stick to one or two countries, otherwise you'll find yourself always
rushing to catch trains, etc; and you probably won't enjoy the trip as
much.
Jim
http://home.comcast.net/~oil_free_and_happy/

oilfreeandhappy said:

We visited Italy in the Fall of 2004. We loved it. I don't know what
your budget is, but Italy tends to be a little more affordable. The
Trenitalia pass (part of Eurail, but cheaper if purchased for Italy
only) was nice for getting around by train. All the major cities have
great mass transit. If you are anti-car, you MUST visit Venice. It's
like being on another planet - no car sounds. You don't realize how
peaceful it is, until you leave, and start dodging mopeds in Roma. I
also highly recommend Sicily. The train actually pulls onto the ferry!
That's amazing to watch. Taormina is pricey but absolutely beautiful.
When we were there Mount Etna was glowing red on one side, and
panoramic ocean views on the other.

I hope I whetted your appetite for Italy! My main advice would be to
stick to one or two countries, otherwise you'll find yourself always
rushing to catch trains, etc; and you probably won't enjoy the trip as
much.
Jim
http://home.comcast.net/~oil_free_and_happy/

I agree. One thing you may want to consider is a focus on big cities vs
small towns. Small towns is Europe are generally rather metropolitan in
a way. Even a town of 2,000 people will have a center that is perfect
for walking, cafes, etc. A big city like Paris will have all of that
too of course and much more, but will be a distance to nature and the
more laid back country lifestyle. There is also a big difference
between cities that were destroyed in WWII aand those that weren't.
Paris vs. Berlin for example. Berlin has lots of 50's style
car-friendly wide boulevards that are less than pleasant to walk
across. (Don't get me wrong, Berlin is great, but it has some
drawbacks).

My suggestion:

Fly to Paris, stay for a few days. TGV to Lausanne in Switzerland,
explore Lac Leman (Lake Geneva) eastward into the mountains, take a
bus, bike or rental car over the St. Bernard pass down into Italy and
make a loop of small cities and towns in Italy finishing up in Venice.

Have fun!

Joseph

Jay Beattie said:

Where would you go if you had three weeks to visit Europe? More
car/train etc. than bicycle since it will involve family. Thanks. --
Jay Beattie.

Scotland.

Mario.

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
Jay Beattie <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Where would you go if you had three weeks to visit Europe? More
car/train etc. than bicycle since it will involve family. Thanks. --
Jay Beattie.

I would start in Prague, very compact, and easy for the arrival day(s).
Cycling available apenty. Food and real Budweiser, plus super-friendly
people.

Then by train to Vienna, not bothering with Bratislava, I think. Again for
food and people. A good break from cycling, though it's OK after 15-20 km
from city center.

Vienna to Salzburg, into the very neglected Austrian Alps. So as not to
overdo the mountains, you will find them challenging but milder than
elsewhere, and your outings will remain short loops, giving plenty of time
for music, should you be there at the right time.

Salzburg to Milan. Did I forget to say FOOD ? CYCLING ? Options abound.

Milan to the area around Monaco. Nice is very affordable, and you have some
of the greatest one day cycling routes. Details, if you like. The Italian
plus French amalgam cuisine here is outrageously good. Lots of easy
half-day trips to great places, like Aix-en-Provence or Marseille.

Then real Alps, and there are tons of guest houses, country cooking, and
quiet, depending on where you go. I would aim for Chamonix unless it's
still melting. Riding is catered to here, both road and MTB.
http://www.gites-de-france.fr/fr/index.htm

Depending on how many days you have spent, it may be time for a quick return
to Prague, take in the "music for tourists" deals, eat, relax, fly home.

ALTERNATIVELY :

Fly to Nice, stay in the area within 150 km, and you'll have a riot of a
time, plenty to ride, hard to get lost, vertical challenges all over.

Italy is around 30 km away, which I recommend highly. If you are riding
alone, it's nice, and you start first, letting your family come by car or
train to one of the towns in Italy, like San Remo.

Rides elsewhere, like from downtown (laugh) Monaco, at the pool, go to the
eastern end along the shore (backwards F1 race route), take the double
switchback uphill, keep going right to Roquebrune, which is a left turn very
quickly. You have climbed around 50 metres. Then follow the road to Mt St
Agel (at nearly 1000 metres) after only a dozen km on the road. You family
could follow you on the way, but can turn right for the old city of
Roquebrune, cut out of rock, super for a tourist experience. You, however,
descend back to the road to La Turbie, stop at the Trophée des Alpes, take
the road towards Nice, then drop down left back towards Monaco. 80 km/h is
easy, and there is a barrier on the right to preserve you - all of 30 cm
tall. Hairpins for adrenalin.

That's just one of the easy rides that won't separate you from your
companions too long, will challenge, and lets you see a lot of what is
typical for the area. If you want lunch or dinner, prime recommendation is
Maison du Caviar, which isn't really expensive at all.
--
Bonne route !

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR

Colin Campbell said:

Jay Beattie said:

Where would you go if you had three weeks to visit Europe? More
car/train etc. than bicycle since it will involve family. Thanks. --
Jay Beattie.

Paris, Berlin, Muenchen, Wein, Salzburg, Roma, Milano, Budapest, Madrid,
London. Any or all of the above, and of course, many other great cities
as well.

I'd skip London. Filthy, dingy narrow streets, overpriced
*everything*. Bitter, acidic locals who studiously mind their own
business and expect everybody else to do the same.

If a Londoner approaches you with a friendly word and a smile then run
like hell because they've pegged you as a tourist and are out to empty
your wallet.

Paris is a delight, rain or shine, but I'd rather not drive in the
city. Same for Madrid. No idea about the others though...

Quoted message said:

Visit some old villages wherever you can.

Take the TGV train, use the Chunnel (Channel Tunnel) or maybe a
hovercraft to cross the channel.

I like both the tunnel and the ferry - you kind of get a sense that
you're entering a country, rather than when you're on a plane and at
some point you cross an invisible line.

Quoted message said:

Walk, walk, walk!

From what I've heard, if you get to go for a ride, do it in Italia.
Supposedly, they treat cyclists like royalty.

Note: I only know about half of what I'm saying. You'll no doubt get
good alternate advice as well.

Quote.........................I'd skip London. Filthy, dingy narrow streets,
overpriced
*everything*. Bitter, acidic locals who studiously mind their own
business and expect everybody else to do the same.

If a Londoner approaches you with a friendly word and a smile then run
like hell because they've pegged you as a tourist and are out to empty
your wallet.

Pity you feell like that, I am a Londoner and do not treat people like you
describe.
Could be that you are just a little wrong.

SW

Yes............... Scotland

SW

"Mario Pranjic" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay Beattie said:

Where would you go if you had three weeks to visit Europe? More
car/train etc. than bicycle since it will involve family. Thanks. --
Jay Beattie.

Scotland.

Mario.

Jay Beattie said:

Where would you go if you had three weeks to visit Europe? More
car/train etc. than bicycle since it will involve family. Thanks. --
Jay Beattie.

Salzburg (Austria) and Prague and Cesky Krumlov in the Czech Republic.
In a three week (car) tour of central europe, these made the strongest
impression on me. As of 1998, I had the impression that the further
east you go, the less infested with cars (and more walkable) the cities
are, although all had good public transit.

Any chance you get, find small towns off the beaten path, chances are
they will be a highlight of your trip.

Best of luck,
Mark