OT: COM or CO.UK?

I've always preferred .co.uk to .com, and use .co.uk for all my sites
(about 10 of them). It fgives a sense of ownership - .com is too
generic.

The googl "search only UK" isn't worth anything. What defines a site
as being in the uK? Is it because it has a .uk suffix? Is it becuase
it's hosted on a server whose RIPE address denotes it as being int he
UK? Is it because of metatags?

I find the most effective way to restrict searches to the UK is to
simply include UK int he goole search! THen I get domains containing
UK but also anyone who puts UK as their address (sometimes "United
Kingdom"😉.

One other factor is that .co.uk domains are extremely easy to transfer
between ISPs. Just register at the new domain, get your old ISP to
release the tag, and it's done. But with .COMs there's a whole email
chain required.

If you get your meta tags correct, and you get enough links to your
site from other sites, then that's your safest option. Go with a
..co.uk (or a .org.uk if appropriate).

Just my 2p.

Jim

Paul Saunders said:

I've recently signed up with a new web host and am now having problems
transferring my domain name. While this will probably be sorted out
eventually, I'm considering registering another domain name for use with my
new web host.

There are a couple of advantages in doing this, one of which is securing a
different version of my domain name to prevent anyone else from registering
it.

The other advantage, since I'm designing a completely new site anyway, is
that I can create my new site from scratch on a blank slate. This will avoid
the hassle of keeping many old pages active while I get the new site up and
running. I can easily add links from the old site to the new one so it won't
be a problem redirecting people to the new site, and once the new one
becomes established I can trash the old one, or simply use redirects.

The big question is whether to register a com or co.uk name. I could easily
do the latter by simply omitting the hyphen, but to be honest I think the
com option may be a better choice.

I've read a bit about this issue and the general consensus seems to be that
com is better if you're targeting a global market, while co.uk is better if
you're targeting the UK market. Although my website is clearly *about* the
UK, it does have a wider appeal than that. Currently 26% of my visitors are
from outside the UK. Once I do get my photo sales sorted out, I don't see
any reason why I can't sell them globally. Why should I limit myself to the
UK market?

I read that the biggest potential downside is that people who use Google or
Yahoo to search for UK sites only wouldn't see it. So I decided to test
this. I searched for snowdonia on Google, using both the "web" and "uk"
search, and looked for com sites. Whilst most com sites disappeared from the
UK results, one didn't, specifically http://www.snowdon.com/

Wondering why it appeared in the UK results, I took a look at the code and
found this metatag:
<meta name="distribution" content="Global" />

Is this what's causing it to appear in the UK results in spite of being a
com? Or is it because they used "UK" in the keywords metatag?

If it's possible to ensure a listing in the UK results using one or both of
the methods above, then I can't see any downside to registering a com
domain.

So is there any compelling reason for me to go for a co.uk instead?

Paul

I've recently signed up with a new web host and am now having problems
transferring my domain name. While this will probably be sorted out
eventually, I'm considering registering another domain name for use with my
new web host.

There are a couple of advantages in doing this, one of which is securing a
different version of my domain name to prevent anyone else from registering
it.

The other advantage, since I'm designing a completely new site anyway, is
that I can create my new site from scratch on a blank slate. This will avoid
the hassle of keeping many old pages active while I get the new site up and
running. I can easily add links from the old site to the new one so it won't
be a problem redirecting people to the new site, and once the new one
becomes established I can trash the old one, or simply use redirects.

The big question is whether to register a com or co.uk name. I could easily
do the latter by simply omitting the hyphen, but to be honest I think the
com option may be a better choice.

I've read a bit about this issue and the general consensus seems to be that
com is better if you're targeting a global market, while co.uk is better if
you're targeting the UK market. Although my website is clearly *about* the
UK, it does have a wider appeal than that. Currently 26% of my visitors are
from outside the UK. Once I do get my photo sales sorted out, I don't see
any reason why I can't sell them globally. Why should I limit myself to the
UK market?

I read that the biggest potential downside is that people who use Google or
Yahoo to search for UK sites only wouldn't see it. So I decided to test
this. I searched for snowdonia on Google, using both the "web" and "uk"
search, and looked for com sites. Whilst most com sites disappeared from the
UK results, one didn't, specifically http://www.snowdon.com/

Wondering why it appeared in the UK results, I took a look at the code and
found this metatag:
<meta name="distribution" content="Global" />

Is this what's causing it to appear in the UK results in spite of being a
com? Or is it because they used "UK" in the keywords metatag?

If it's possible to ensure a listing in the UK results using one or both of
the methods above, then I can't see any downside to registering a com
domain.

So is there any compelling reason for me to go for a co.uk instead?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

Paul Saunders said:

The big question is whether to register a com or co.uk name. I could easily
do the latter by simply omitting the hyphen, but to be honest I think the
com option may be a better choice.

Register both. This is a business expense for you, so the small extra cost
occurred can be justified.

You then want to get one of the addresses set to be redirected to the
other - see http://www.tandberg.net for an example of this happening.
Your registrar should be able to do this for you at minimal or no
cost.

The problem then becomes: which should be your primary address?
That's really down to whether you want to appear as a multinational or
a UK entity.

Good luck.

--
Giles

"Rab C Nesbitt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

With election results & the slow death of the English Empire....
perhaps .sco & .wal (or whatever they will be ..) also ???

The English Empire???? It was a British Empire built on Welsh coal and
labour and Scottish grit and fighting spirit...

Quoted message said:

"Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've recently signed up with a new web host and am now having problems
transferring my domain name. While this will probably be sorted out
eventually, I'm considering registering another domain name for use with
my new web host.

There are a couple of advantages in doing this, one of which is securing

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

different version of my domain name to prevent anyone else from
registering it.

The other advantage, since I'm designing a completely new site anyway,

is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that I can create my new site from scratch on a blank slate. This will
avoid the hassle of keeping many old pages active while I get the new

site

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

up and running. I can easily add links from the old site to the new one

so

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it won't be a problem redirecting people to the new site, and once the

new

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

one becomes established I can trash the old one, or simply use

redirects.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The big question is whether to register a com or co.uk name. I could
easily do the latter by simply omitting the hyphen, but to be honest I
think the com option may be a better choice.

I've read a bit about this issue and the general consensus seems to be
that com is better if you're targeting a global market, while co.uk is
better if you're targeting the UK market. Although my website is clearly
*about* the UK, it does have a wider appeal than that. Currently 26% of

my

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

visitors are from outside the UK. Once I do get my photo sales sorted

out,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't see any reason why I can't sell them globally. Why should I

limit

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

myself to the UK market?

I read that the biggest potential downside is that people who use Google
or Yahoo to search for UK sites only wouldn't see it. So I decided to

test

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this. I searched for snowdonia on Google, using both the "web" and "uk"
search, and looked for com sites. Whilst most com sites disappeared from
the UK results, one didn't, specifically http://www.snowdon.com/

Wondering why it appeared in the UK results, I took a look at the code

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

found this metatag:
<meta name="distribution" content="Global" />

Is this what's causing it to appear in the UK results in spite of being

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

com? Or is it because they used "UK" in the keywords metatag?

If it's possible to ensure a listing in the UK results using one or both
of the methods above, then I can't see any downside to registering a com
domain.

So is there any compelling reason for me to go for a co.uk instead?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

One other factor is that .co.uk domains are extremely easy to transfer
between ISPs.

Wanna bet?

Quoted message said:

Just register at the new domain, get your old ISP to
release the tag, and it's done.

Ho ho ho! If only it were that easy! I emailed them nearly a week ago, no
reply. I spent ages trying to find a support phone number that worked,
eventually found one, but got fobbed off by the guy on the other end, who
didn't seem to understand what I was talking about, and was told to send an
email to another address. Still no reply to that either. Then I discovered
that they have a forum which you can use to complain about stuff, so I
signed up for that, but I have to wait for a moderator to approve me before
I can post, and guess what? I'm still waiting to be approved so I can't
complain.

The forum itself is full of [censored] people and loads of complaints about
their terrible service and the fact that they never bother to answer
emails...

Like I say, it'll probably be sorted out eventually, but in the meantime I'm
paying for my new web host but I can't use it without a domain name! Hence I
could quickly solve that problem by registering a new one.

Or getting Nominet to change it for you

http://www.nominet.org.uk/registrants/maintain/changeregistrar/faq/

--

Dominic Sexton

Jim said:

I've always preferred .co.uk to .com, and use .co.uk for all my sites
(about 10 of them). It fgives a sense of ownership - .com is too
generic.

Perhaps, but many internet users assume com to be the default extension if
they don't know what a site's name ends with, and it is supposed to be the
most desirable.

Quoted message said:

The googl "search only UK" isn't worth anything. What defines a site
as being in the uK? Is it because it has a .uk suffix?

I think that's the primary definition.

Quoted message said:

Is it becuase
it's hosted on a server whose RIPE address denotes it as being int he
UK?

I think that's part of it too.

Quoted message said:

Is it because of metatags?

I doubt it, but I'm not sure.

Quoted message said:

I find the most effective way to restrict searches to the UK is to
simply include UK int he goole search! THen I get domains containing
UK but also anyone who puts UK as their address (sometimes "United
Kingdom"😉.

Well I don't want to restrict searches to the UK myself, I just want to
ensure that anyone who does restrict their search can still find my site,
even if it has a com extension.

Quoted message said:

One other factor is that .co.uk domains are extremely easy to transfer
between ISPs.

Wanna bet?

Quoted message said:

Just register at the new domain, get your old ISP to
release the tag, and it's done.

Ho ho ho! If only it were that easy! I emailed them nearly a week ago, no
reply. I spent ages trying to find a support phone number that worked,
eventually found one, but got fobbed off by the guy on the other end, who
didn't seem to understand what I was talking about, and was told to send an
email to another address. Still no reply to that either. Then I discovered
that they have a forum which you can use to complain about stuff, so I
signed up for that, but I have to wait for a moderator to approve me before
I can post, and guess what? I'm still waiting to be approved so I can't
complain.

The forum itself is full of [censored] people and loads of complaints about
their terrible service and the fact that they never bother to answer
emails...

Like I say, it'll probably be sorted out eventually, but in the meantime I'm
paying for my new web host but I can't use it without a domain name! Hence I
could quickly solve that problem by registering a new one.

Quoted message said:

But with .COMs there's a whole email
chain required.

Probably easier than dealing with the tossers who've currently got control
of my domain name.

Quoted message said:

If you get your meta tags correct, and you get enough links to your
site from other sites, then that's your safest option. Go with a
.co.uk (or a .org.uk if appropriate).

Do you know what effect this meta tag has?
<meta name="distribution" content="Global" />

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

Giles Chamberlin said:

Quoted message said:

The big question is whether to register a com or co.uk name. I could
easily do the latter by simply omitting the hyphen, but to be honest
I think the com option may be a better choice.

Register both. This is a business expense for you, so the small
extra cost occurred can be justified.

That's not really the issue. I've already got the co.uk domain, I just can't
get the damn thing transferred at the moment.

But I've often thought that getting the com version would be a good idea
anyway, so I could kill two birds with one stone by registering it now.

Quoted message said:

You then want to get one of the addresses set to be redirected to the
other - see http://www.tandberg.net for an example of this happening.
Your registrar should be able to do this for you at minimal or no
cost.

Once I get the co.uk domain transferred then I'd have the option of doing
that, but at the moment I can't do anything with it, since the people who
have control of it apparently can't be bothered to provide any customer
service at all.

Quoted message said:

The problem then becomes: which should be your primary address?
That's really down to whether you want to appear as a multinational or
a UK entity.

Yes, that's the choice.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

Rab C Nesbitt said:

With election results & the slow death of the English Empire....
perhaps .sco & .wal (or whatever they will be ..) also ???

There's been an election?

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

In message <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Jim said:

Just register at the new domain, get your old ISP to
release the tag, and it's done.

Ho ho ho! If only it were that easy! I emailed them nearly a week ago, no
reply.

I trust that you're aware of Nominet's ability to intervene? If an ISP
refuses to play ball, Nominet can and will force a transfer to another
ISP provided you give them evidence of the lack of any co-operation or
response. I think it costs something like ukp15? I believe that
Nominet will email the recalcitrant ISP and if they also get no
response, they will force the transfer. If Nominet do get a response,
at least you know that you've now got the attention of the ISP.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But with .COMs there's a whole email
chain required.

Probably easier than dealing with the tossers who've currently got control
of my domain name.

Quoted message said:

If you get your meta tags correct, and you get enough links to your
site from other sites, then that's your safest option. Go with a
.co.uk (or a .org.uk if appropriate).

Another option to consider, if you haven't already, is to get both the
..com and co.uk names and then redirect all accesses to just one of your
domains?

--
Dave N

N.B. Mail to nospam is rejected. Reply-To does work.

In message <[email hidden]>, Dave N
<[email hidden]> wrote

<snip>

Oops. I knew I should have read the last 2 messages in this thread
before pressing the send button! Both my points have already been made
far more succinctly by others so please feel free to ignore me. 🙁

--
Dave N

N.B. Mail to nospam is rejected. Reply-To does work.

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Dominic Sexton said:

Or getting Nominet to change it for you

http://www.nominet.org.uk/registrants/maintain/changeregistrar/faq/

Thanks Dominic. I wasn't sure which was the right option since they seem to
use different terminology. So Nominet's "change registrar" is the same as
what my web hosts are calling transferring the domain, yes?

Yes. Your current host is the registrar / TAG holder. You want to get
the TAG transferred to another holder. I would recommend you actually
change the TAG to a company separate from your new host. That will allow
you to change hosts very easily just by changing the Name Servers for
the domain should you have a problem with a host and already have set up
a new host.

I use http://www.123-reg.co.uk/ who are part of Pipex to register and
administer domains. Hosting is done elsewhere and is easily changed
(once the site has been set up on the new host).

Quoted message said:

I'll probably do this if I don't get a response soon.

I would go for it now especially if the current registrar / TAG holder
wants to charge a fee to change it (in my experience reputable companies
allow transferring domains out for free).

--

Dominic Sexton

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Dave N said:

I trust that you're aware of Nominet's ability to intervene?

Yeah, I just thought I'd try to do it the normal way first.

Quoted message said:

If an
ISP refuses to play ball, Nominet can and will force a transfer to
another ISP provided you give them evidence of the lack of any
co-operation or response. I think it costs something like ukp15?

It's £10, but they may charge more if the ISP demands other fees.

Only in the case of outstanding fees due on the domain that have not
been paid to Nominet by your existing TAG holder. I doubt that is the
case unless you have recently renewed the domain.

Quoted message said:

I know
they charge £25 for a domain transfer.

Then they are rip off merchants so stuff them and do it via Nominet.

--

Dominic Sexton

Dominic Sexton said:

Or getting Nominet to change it for you

http://www.nominet.org.uk/registrants/maintain/changeregistrar/faq/

Thanks Dominic. I wasn't sure which was the right option since they seem to
use different terminology. So Nominet's "change registrar" is the same as
what my web hosts are calling transferring the domain, yes?

I'll probably do this if I don't get a response soon.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

Dave N said:

I trust that you're aware of Nominet's ability to intervene?

Yeah, I just thought I'd try to do it the normal way first.

Quoted message said:

If an
ISP refuses to play ball, Nominet can and will force a transfer to
another ISP provided you give them evidence of the lack of any
co-operation or response. I think it costs something like ukp15?

It's £10, but they may charge more if the ISP demands other fees. I know
they charge £25 for a domain transfer.

Quoted message said:

Another option to consider, if you haven't already, is to get both the
.com and co.uk names and then redirect all accesses to just one of
your domains?

Yeah, that'd probably be best.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

Paul Saunders said:

Like I say, it'll probably be sorted out eventually, but in the meantime I'm
paying for my new web host but I can't use it without a domain name! Hence I
could quickly solve that problem by registering a new one.

I'd always advocate having your domain registered with a separate
company than it's hosted with. That way if you're unhappy over the
hosting service you can very easily move to another company. I've always
used 123reg.co.uk and find them excellent and use AxisHost.com for
hosting as they have packages that suit me.

"Rab C Nesbitt" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

With election results & the slow death of the English Empire....
perhaps .sco & .wal (or whatever they will be ..) also ???

interesting, over here the top level domain is .ie

some years ago it was decided not to subdivide it into .co.ie etc

..ie was in the doldrums for various reasons but is now apparently surging
ahead

www.simonstewart.ie
www.mountainviews.ie

Dominic Sexton said:

Yes. Your current host is the registrar / TAG holder. You want to get
the TAG transferred to another holder. I would recommend you actually
change the TAG to a company separate from your new host. That will
allow you to change hosts very easily just by changing the Name
Servers for the domain should you have a problem with a host and
already have set up a new host.

I use http://www.123-reg.co.uk/ who are part of Pipex to register and
administer domains. Hosting is done elsewhere and is easily changed
(once the site has been set up on the new host).

Okay Dominic, suppose I follow your suggestion, I'm a bit confused about the
best way to go about it.

According to 123-reg, the instructions for transferring the domain are as
follows:
http://tinyurl.com/24ba4t
Which says: "Firstly, you need to contact the provider and ask them to
change the IPS tag* to 123-REG"

That's the bit I can't do, because my current host is being awkward. So if I
ask Nominet to do it, how can I do that if I don't yet have an account with
123-reg? Would I have to sign up with them first?

Also, if I transfer my domain to 123-reg, they currently have an offer where
they give one year's free hosting. I've already committed myself to a
different web host, but it would be a shame to waste the free hosting. If I
did transfer my domain to 123-reg and then changed the dns to my new web
host, would I'd lose the free hosting? Or could I buy another domain name
(for a different website topic) and use that with the free hosting instead?

It seems simpler to just ask Nominet to transfer my domain to my new host.
But if I then transfer it immediately to 123-reg, wouldn't that be
unnecessary faffing about? If the whole point of moving it to 123-reg in the
first place is to avoid problems transferring it away, surely I'd get those
problems anyway, if there are any. And if there aren't, I wouldn't really
need to move it, would I?

I presume I can just register new domain names with 123-reg without having
to buy a web hosting package, and then set them up as aliases for my main
domain, even if it has a different host?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I know they charge £25 for a domain transfer.

Then they are rip off merchants

You can say that again. Back in October I was forced to pay a second time to
renew my domain, even though I'd already renewed it months earlier
(directly, not through them), and I have the reciept to prove it. But they
ignored my emails and suspended my site so I had to pay it to get my site
working again. [censored]!

If anyone's wondering who these rip off merchants are, it's FreedomNames,
who now seem to be part of 186k.co.uk.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

dino said:

I'd always advocate having your domain registered with a separate
company than it's hosted with. That way if you're unhappy over the
hosting service you can very easily move to another company.

Makes sense.

Quoted message said:

I've
always used 123reg.co.uk and find them excellent

Yeah, they look good, but I see no mention of MySQL with their web hosting.

Quoted message said:

and use AxisHost.com
for hosting as they have packages that suit me.

I've signed up with http://www.ukhost4u.com/ for a number of reasons, one of
which is that they're offering a lot more bandwidth than most other UK
hosts, 100GB per month for the basic package and 400GB for the business
package, which is very reasonably priced. Lots of web space too, 2GB for the
basic package. Since I'm planning to put a *lot* of photographs on my
website, bandwidth may become an issue in the future. At least I hope so!
:-)

A friend has been using them for some time now and is very happy with their
service.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Dominic Sexton said:

Yes. Your current host is the registrar / TAG holder. You want to get
the TAG transferred to another holder. I would recommend you actually
change the TAG to a company separate from your new host. That will
allow you to change hosts very easily just by changing the Name
Servers for the domain should you have a problem with a host and
already have set up a new host.

I use http://www.123-reg.co.uk/ who are part of Pipex to register and
administer domains. Hosting is done elsewhere and is easily changed
(once the site has been set up on the new host).

Okay Dominic, suppose I follow your suggestion, I'm a bit confused about the
best way to go about it.

According to 123-reg, the instructions for transferring the domain are as
follows:
http://tinyurl.com/24ba4t
Which says: "Firstly, you need to contact the provider and ask them to
change the IPS tag* to 123-REG"

That's the bit I can't do, because my current host is being awkward. So if I
ask Nominet to do it, how can I do that if I don't yet have an account with
123-reg? Would I have to sign up with them first?

You can ask Nominet to change the TAG to 123-REG and sign up with 123 at
the same time (there's no reason not to sign up with 123 earlier). Once
you have asked Nominet to make the change keep checking the TAG via
Nominet's whois - box in top right of:

http://www.nic.uk/

Once it changes to 123-REG login to 123 and add the domain to you
account.

Then you can manage the hosting switch over when you are ready with the
new host.

Quoted message said:

Also, if I transfer my domain to 123-reg, they currently have an offer where
they give one year's free hosting. I've already committed myself to a
different web host, but it would be a shame to waste the free hosting. If I
did transfer my domain to 123-reg and then changed the dns to my new web
host, would I'd lose the free hosting? Or could I buy another domain name
(for a different website topic) and use that with the free hosting instead?

You could do that. I don't know what the terms are for that offer but if
you want to use the domain for more than the first free year please make
sure you read them carefully to avoid any unexpected problems / fees.

Quoted message said:

It seems simpler to just ask Nominet to transfer my domain to my new host.

However if you experience problems with your new host in the future you
may end up in the same situation as now. Obviously there could also be
future problems with 123 but I hope that being part of Pipex makes that
less likely than problems with small(ish) hosting companies.

Quoted message said:

But if I then transfer it immediately to 123-reg, wouldn't that be
unnecessary faffing about? If the whole point of moving it to 123-reg in the
first place is to avoid problems transferring it away, surely I'd get those
problems anyway, if there are any. And if there aren't, I wouldn't really
need to move it, would I?

It just makes it better for the future administration of the domains.
You have to move it now so you might as well move it to a place where it
is easy to administer and will hopefully not have problems in the
future.

Quoted message said:

I presume I can just register new domain names with 123-reg without having
to buy a web hosting package, and then set them up as aliases for my main
domain, even if it has a different host?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I know they charge £25 for a domain transfer.

Then they are rip off merchants

You can say that again. Back in October I was forced to pay a second time to
renew my domain, even though I'd already renewed it months earlier
(directly, not through them), and I have the reciept to prove it. But they
ignored my emails and suspended my site so I had to pay it to get my site
working again. [censored]!

Indeed. That is more then enough reason to get the TAG change done by
Nominet and never give them another penny...

--

Dominic Sexton