OT Buses

In article <[email hidden]>,

day said:

What should have happened :

If they didn't want to get on a bus, their only other choice is to
possibly die. You can't save someone that refuses to get to safety.

Authority to issue evacuations of elements of the population is vested
in the Mayor. By Executive Order, the chief elected official, the
Mayor of the City of New Orleans, has the authority to order the
evacuation of residents threatened by an approaching hurricane.
Conduct of an actual evacuation will be the responsibility of the
Mayor of New Orleans in coordination with the Director of the Office
of Emergency Preparedness, and the OEP Shelter Coordinator.

Use of buses is covered in the city plan and the state plan.

I counted in the picture that is being passed around approx 135 school
buses alone that could be seen. If each was used to hold 30 people
that would have been 4,050 per trip that could have been moved . It is
estimated that NORTA(city buses) has 364 buses. If 60 crowed in during
the evac, 21,840 per trip could be moved. Together 25,890 people could
have evaced. Mayor Nagin said 80% of the city left when ordered. The
population census for 2000 says 484,674 people lived there, 387,740
evaced on there own. The buses could have taken the remaining 96,934
out in about 4 trips. Taking the people maybe 100 miles inland and
empty the city in around 12 hours.

Buses need drivers. Who would have driven all those buses at a time when
anyone who can drive was driving out of the area? Keep in mind, that the
drivers would need a proper commercial license and insurance; so that
lets out the average Joe or Jane Doe.

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 20:54:23 -0400, Shawn Hirn <[email hidden]>
wrote:

snipped
"Buses need drivers. Who would have driven all those buses at a time
when anyone who can drive was driving out of the area? Keep in mind,
that the drivers would need a proper commercial license and insurance;
so that lets out the average Joe or Jane Doe."

Well then everybody is going to die and there is no hope and no reason
to even try to get people ou and no reason to even debate itt. Geeze,
the schools and NORTA have the drivers and insurance. I believe the
NO plan says the mayor will ensure through other local offices that
provision be made to evac people. That would include enough drivers.

<day [email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What should have happened :

If they didn't want to get on a bus, their only other choice is to
possibly die. You can't save someone that refuses to get to safety.

Authority to issue evacuations of elements of the population is vested
in the Mayor. By Executive Order, the chief elected official, the
Mayor of the City of New Orleans, has the authority to order the
evacuation of residents threatened by an approaching hurricane.
Conduct of an actual evacuation will be the responsibility of the
Mayor of New Orleans in coordination with the Director of the Office
of Emergency Preparedness, and the OEP Shelter Coordinator.

Use of buses is covered in the city plan and the state plan.

I counted in the picture that is being passed around approx 135 school
buses alone that could be seen. If each was used to hold 30 people
that would have been 4,050 per trip that could have been moved . It is
estimated that NORTA(city buses) has 364 buses. If 60 crowed in during
the evac, 21,840 per trip could be moved. Together 25,890 people could
have evaced. Mayor Nagin said 80% of the city left when ordered. The
population census for 2000 says 484,674 people lived there, 387,740
evaced on there own. The buses could have taken the remaining 96,934
out in about 4 trips. Taking the people maybe 100 miles inland and
empty the city in around 12 hours.

Taking them inland to what? Was there a place to shelter and house all
these people? You're not going to drop them off in the middle of the path
of a hurricane without protection. At least the Superdome gave shelter
during the storm.

FDR said:

<day [email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What should have happened :

If they didn't want to get on a bus, their only other choice is to
possibly die. You can't save someone that refuses to get to safety.

Authority to issue evacuations of elements of the population is vested
in the Mayor. By Executive Order, the chief elected official, the
Mayor of the City of New Orleans, has the authority to order the
evacuation of residents threatened by an approaching hurricane.
Conduct of an actual evacuation will be the responsibility of the
Mayor of New Orleans in coordination with the Director of the Office
of Emergency Preparedness, and the OEP Shelter Coordinator.

Use of buses is covered in the city plan and the state plan.

I counted in the picture that is being passed around approx 135 school
buses alone that could be seen. If each was used to hold 30 people
that would have been 4,050 per trip that could have been moved . It is
estimated that NORTA(city buses) has 364 buses. If 60 crowed in during
the evac, 21,840 per trip could be moved. Together 25,890 people could
have evaced. Mayor Nagin said 80% of the city left when ordered. The
population census for 2000 says 484,674 people lived there, 387,740
evaced on there own. The buses could have taken the remaining 96,934
out in about 4 trips. Taking the people maybe 100 miles inland and
empty the city in around 12 hours.

Taking them inland to what? Was there a place to shelter and house all
these people? You're not going to drop them off in the middle of the path
of a hurricane without protection. At least the Superdome gave shelter
during the storm.

I give up. You people [censored] and whine that nothing was done. Then you
[censored] and whine when something was done and the only thing you guys
can come up with is "leave them there". Jesuss they had 4 days
warning, somebody there couldn't pick-up a phone and find out where to
take them? They couldn't call an airport to use their hangers or
something? The Superdome was a "shelter of last resort".

Quoted message said:

f they didn't want to get on a bus, their only other choice is to

possibly die.

I've heard accounts of lots of people who simply walked out. All of
the highways, etc., were not under water. I, for one, would not have
gotten on a bus, if it had meant leaving my two cats behind. However,
I sure as HELL would not have sat around waiting for the cavalry to
arrive. I would have been out of there, hitchhiking if necessary, at
the first call of evacuation.

chula

Chula said:

I've heard accounts of lots of people who simply walked out. All of
the highways, etc., were not under water. I, for one, would not have
gotten on a bus, if it had meant leaving my two cats behind. However,
I sure as HELL would not have sat around waiting for the cavalry to
arrive. I would have been out of there, hitchhiking if necessary, at
the first call of evacuation.

That's exactly the point of view that I take. I put it to a friend like
this:

"The storm is moving at ten miles per hour. A bicycle moves at fifteen miles
per hour. DO THE MATH!"

Bob

In article <[email hidden]>,

day said:

FDR said:

<day [email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What should have happened :

If they didn't want to get on a bus, their only other choice is to
possibly die. You can't save someone that refuses to get to safety.

Authority to issue evacuations of elements of the population is vested
in the Mayor. By Executive Order, the chief elected official, the
Mayor of the City of New Orleans, has the authority to order the
evacuation of residents threatened by an approaching hurricane.
Conduct of an actual evacuation will be the responsibility of the
Mayor of New Orleans in coordination with the Director of the Office
of Emergency Preparedness, and the OEP Shelter Coordinator.

Use of buses is covered in the city plan and the state plan.

I counted in the picture that is being passed around approx 135 school
buses alone that could be seen. If each was used to hold 30 people
that would have been 4,050 per trip that could have been moved . It is
estimated that NORTA(city buses) has 364 buses. If 60 crowed in during
the evac, 21,840 per trip could be moved. Together 25,890 people could
have evaced. Mayor Nagin said 80% of the city left when ordered. The
population census for 2000 says 484,674 people lived there, 387,740
evaced on there own. The buses could have taken the remaining 96,934
out in about 4 trips. Taking the people maybe 100 miles inland and
empty the city in around 12 hours.

Taking them inland to what? Was there a place to shelter and house all
these people? You're not going to drop them off in the middle of the path
of a hurricane without protection. At least the Superdome gave shelter
during the storm.

I give up. You people [censored] and whine that nothing was done. Then you
[censored] and whine when something was done and the only thing you guys
can come up with is "leave them there". Jesuss they had 4 days
warning, somebody there couldn't pick-up a phone and find out where to
take them? They couldn't call an airport to use their hangers or
something? The Superdome was a "shelter of last resort".

The problem was that FEMA failed in its mission to proactively deal with
the problem. Go to FEMA's web site and read it mission statement. FEMA
should have taken the lead in dealing with that disaster, as per its
mission statement, yet it failed to do that. FEMA should have brought in
federal resources BEFORE the hurricane arrived in Louisiana to help deal
with the aftermath.

Stan Horwitz said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

day said:

FDR said:

<day [email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

>What should have happened :
>
>If they didn't want to get on a bus, their only other choice is to
>possibly die. You can't save someone that refuses to get to safety.
>
>Authority to issue evacuations of elements of the population is vested
>in the Mayor. By Executive Order, the chief elected official, the
>Mayor of the City of New Orleans, has the authority to order the
>evacuation of residents threatened by an approaching hurricane.
>Conduct of an actual evacuation will be the responsibility of the
>Mayor of New Orleans in coordination with the Director of the Office
>of Emergency Preparedness, and the OEP Shelter Coordinator.
>
>Use of buses is covered in the city plan and the state plan.
>
>I counted in the picture that is being passed around approx 135 school
>buses alone that could be seen. If each was used to hold 30 people
>that would have been 4,050 per trip that could have been moved . It is
>estimated that NORTA(city buses) has 364 buses. If 60 crowed in during
>the evac, 21,840 per trip could be moved. Together 25,890 people could
>have evaced. Mayor Nagin said 80% of the city left when ordered. The
>population census for 2000 says 484,674 people lived there, 387,740
>evaced on there own. The buses could have taken the remaining 96,934
>out in about 4 trips. Taking the people maybe 100 miles inland and
>empty the city in around 12 hours.

Taking them inland to what? Was there a place to shelter and house all
these people? You're not going to drop them off in the middle of the path
of a hurricane without protection. At least the Superdome gave shelter
during the storm.

I give up. You people [censored] and whine that nothing was done. Then you
[censored] and whine when something was done and the only thing you guys
can come up with is "leave them there". Jesuss they had 4 days
warning, somebody there couldn't pick-up a phone and find out where to
take them? They couldn't call an airport to use their hangers or
something? The Superdome was a "shelter of last resort".

The problem was that FEMA failed in its mission to proactively deal with
the problem. Go to FEMA's web site and read it mission statement. FEMA
should have taken the lead in dealing with that disaster, as per its
mission statement, yet it failed to do that. FEMA should have brought in
federal resources BEFORE the hurricane arrived in Louisiana to help deal
with the aftermath.

They should have, but Governor Blanco didn't want them there interfering
with the local kleptocracy. Bush had declared a state of emergency
already, mobilizing FEMA, but *I believe* he would have to invoke the
The Insurrection Act (Title 10 USC) to send them in over the protest of
the governor.

FEMA's ineptitude once they finally got there is a separate issue.

Best regards,
Bob

_.-In rec.food.cooking, Bob wrote the following -._

Quoted message said:

That's exactly the point of view that I take. I put it to a friend like
this:

"The storm is moving at ten miles per hour. A bicycle moves at fifteen miles
per hour. DO THE MATH!"

Unfortunately storms do not have to worry about being run over on
freeways or following freeways that don't travel in straight lines
away from them. In addition it is nearly impossible to out bike a
storm when you have two kids to bring with you. Also hard to bike out
when you are so down on the bar graph of poverty that you can't afford
a bike.

So while the idea ma work for some it just doesn't work for all.

--
.-'😉) fauxascii.com ('-. | It's a damn poor mind that
' ..- .:" ) ( ":. -.. ' | can only think of one way to
((,,_;'.;' UIN=66618055 ';. ';_,,)) | spell a word.
((_.YIM=Faux_Pseudo :._)) | - Andrew Jackson

In article <[email hidden]>, day

Quoted message said:

What should have happened :

If they didn't want to get on a bus, their only other choice is to
possibly die. You can't save someone that refuses to get to safety.

I heard about the Magic Marker persuasion to evacuate: "OK, sir, if you
don't want to evacuate, that's fine, but will you please take this Magic
Marker and put your SSN on yourself -- that will make it much easier to
identify your body."
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> Several notes since 8/18/05,
including the Blue Ribbon Brownie Recipe and a sad note added
this evening, 8/27/05.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bob' virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz said:

Chula said:

I've heard accounts of lots of people who simply walked out. All of
the highways, etc., were not under water. I, for one, would not have
gotten on a bus, if it had meant leaving my two cats behind. However,
I sure as HELL would not have sat around waiting for the cavalry to
arrive. I would have been out of there, hitchhiking if necessary, at
the first call of evacuation.

That's exactly the point of view that I take. I put it to a friend like
this:

"The storm is moving at ten miles per hour. A bicycle moves at fifteen miles
per hour. DO THE MATH!"

You mean that young children and the elderly can ride a bike at 15MPH? I
don't think so. What about those who have to carry their belongings? Not
everyone can ride a bike fast with a heavy backpack strapped to them,
and a lot of people (such as me) do not even have a bike handy.

In article <[email hidden]>,

zxcvbob said:

Stan Horwitz said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

day said:

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 02:34:35 GMT, "FDR"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

><day [email hidden]> wrote in message
>news:[email hidden]...
>
>>What should have happened :
>>
>>If they didn't want to get on a bus, their only other choice is to
>>possibly die. You can't save someone that refuses to get to safety.
>>
>>Authority to issue evacuations of elements of the population is vested
>>in the Mayor. By Executive Order, the chief elected official, the
>>Mayor of the City of New Orleans, has the authority to order the
>>evacuation of residents threatened by an approaching hurricane.
>>Conduct of an actual evacuation will be the responsibility of the
>>Mayor of New Orleans in coordination with the Director of the Office
>>of Emergency Preparedness, and the OEP Shelter Coordinator.
>>
>>Use of buses is covered in the city plan and the state plan.
>>
>>I counted in the picture that is being passed around approx 135 school
>>buses alone that could be seen. If each was used to hold 30 people
>>that would have been 4,050 per trip that could have been moved . It is
>>estimated that NORTA(city buses) has 364 buses. If 60 crowed in during
>>the evac, 21,840 per trip could be moved. Together 25,890 people could
>>have evaced. Mayor Nagin said 80% of the city left when ordered. The
>>population census for 2000 says 484,674 people lived there, 387,740
>>evaced on there own. The buses could have taken the remaining 96,934
>>out in about 4 trips. Taking the people maybe 100 miles inland and
>>empty the city in around 12 hours.
>
>Taking them inland to what? Was there a place to shelter and house all
>these people? You're not going to drop them off in the middle of the path
>of a hurricane without protection. At least the Superdome gave shelter
>during the storm.
>

I give up. You people [censored] and whine that nothing was done. Then you
[censored] and whine when something was done and the only thing you guys
can come up with is "leave them there". Jesuss they had 4 days
warning, somebody there couldn't pick-up a phone and find out where to
take them? They couldn't call an airport to use their hangers or
something? The Superdome was a "shelter of last resort".

The problem was that FEMA failed in its mission to proactively deal with
the problem. Go to FEMA's web site and read it mission statement. FEMA
should have taken the lead in dealing with that disaster, as per its
mission statement, yet it failed to do that. FEMA should have brought in
federal resources BEFORE the hurricane arrived in Louisiana to help deal
with the aftermath.

They should have, but Governor Blanco didn't want them there interfering
with the local kleptocracy. Bush had declared a state of emergency
already, mobilizing FEMA, but *I believe* he would have to invoke the
The Insurrection Act (Title 10 USC) to send them in over the protest of
the governor.

FEMA's ineptitude once they finally got there is a separate issue.

FEMA and Gov. Blanco have a lot of accounting to do to the public. FEMA,
I find especially innept because they did not need the governor's
consent to begin disaster preparations such as moving hospital ships
toward New Orleans, mobilizing the military, etc. Isn't this one of the
big reasons that Bush set up the Department of Homeland Security, to
deal with national threats? A hurricane that is baring down on a
vulnerable area and that has already caused death and destruction on its
way, sure seems like a national threat to me. New Orleans is a coastal
city. FEMA should have mobilized resources from the Navy and Coast Guard
at a minimum. Blanco also made a lot of mistakes, but she also had a lot
more constraints on her than FEMA.

Stavo dormendo su un bancale di lambro quando il post di FDR mi desto'

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jesuss they had 4 days
warning,

Quoted message said:

Yep, the Feds did too. You think the terrorists will gibe you 4

days

Quoted message said:

warning when they attack next time?

OK, what does terrorism has to do with NO people refusing to leave
town?
Yours is just empty rethoric.
--
Vilco
Think pink, drink rose'

Bob said:

Chula said:

I've heard accounts of lots of people who simply walked out. All of
the highways, etc., were not under water. I, for one, would not have
gotten on a bus, if it had meant leaving my two cats behind. However,
I sure as HELL would not have sat around waiting for the cavalry to
arrive. I would have been out of there, hitchhiking if necessary, at
the first call of evacuation.

That's exactly the point of view that I take. I put it to a friend like
this:

"The storm is moving at ten miles per hour. A bicycle moves at fifteen miles
per hour. DO THE MATH!"

With a tail wind, and I suspect Katrina supplied one 🙂 probably 20-25
mi/hr plus you have a pretty good load carrying capacity. One could
throw the cats in the pet carrier, bungy cord it to the bike's carrier
rack, pack a few necessities in the panniers and be gone. I find it
hard to comprehend why people sat around gas stations, apparently for
days in some cases, waiting to buy gas.
John Kane
Kingston ON

"Vilco" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Stavo dormendo su un bancale di lambro quando il post di FDR mi desto'

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jesuss they had 4 days
warning,

Quoted message said:

Yep, the Feds did too. You think the terrorists will gibe you 4

days

Quoted message said:

warning when they attack next time?

OK, what does terrorism has to do with NO people refusing to leave
town?
Yours is just empty rethoric.

It goes to understanding how unprepared the FEMA and Dept. of Homeland
Security are for a terrorrist attack of this nature.

Quoted message said:

--
Vilco
Think pink, drink rose'

"Stan Horwitz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bob' virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz said:

Chula said:

I've heard accounts of lots of people who simply walked out. All of
the highways, etc., were not under water. I, for one, would not have
gotten on a bus, if it had meant leaving my two cats behind. However,
I sure as HELL would not have sat around waiting for the cavalry to
arrive. I would have been out of there, hitchhiking if necessary, at
the first call of evacuation.

That's exactly the point of view that I take. I put it to a friend like
this:

"The storm is moving at ten miles per hour. A bicycle moves at fifteen
miles
per hour. DO THE MATH!"

You mean that young children and the elderly can ride a bike at 15MPH? I
don't think so. What about those who have to carry their belongings? Not
everyone can ride a bike fast with a heavy backpack strapped to them,
and a lot of people (such as me) do not even have a bike handy.

Heck, I'm in fairly good shape and doing 15 mph for any extended time is a
bit challenging. I wonder how far an out of shape or obese person could go
before calling it quits. And then weher do they go for shelter?

Stan Horwitz said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bob' virtualgoth@die_spammer.biz said:

Chula said:

I've heard accounts of lots of people who simply walked out. All of
the highways, etc., were not under water. I, for one, would not have
gotten on a bus, if it had meant leaving my two cats behind. However,
I sure as HELL would not have sat around waiting for the cavalry to
arrive. I would have been out of there, hitchhiking if necessary, at
the first call of evacuation.

That's exactly the point of view that I take. I put it to a friend like
this:

"The storm is moving at ten miles per hour. A bicycle moves at fifteen miles
per hour. DO THE MATH!"

You mean that young children and the elderly can ride a bike at 15MPH? I
don't think so.

Well anyone who is physically fit and over about 8 years old probably
can do about 15 km/hr (8 mi/hr) Some bikes have a child's seat for
little children. Not all that common but still...

What about those who have to carry their belongings?
Why? Given the choice of dying or leaving the suitcase I would have
thought most people would leave the suitcase.

Actually you can carry a lot on a bike if it is properly equipped with
a carrier rack and panniers. Bulk rather than weight is often the
deciding factor.

Quoted message said:

Noteveryone can ride a bike fast with a heavy backpack strapped to them,

Don't use a backpack. Use panniers or just dump the [censored] and get out of
town.

Quoted message said:

and a lot of people (such as me) do not even have a bike handy.

Time to buy a copy of "Pracatial Looting for Fun,Profit & Survival" I
am sure lots of empty middle class homes had bicycles in their garages.
Not a nice idea but better than being inundated.

On 11 Sep 2005 12:01:18 -0700, "jrkrideau"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

snipped

I posted here on how to make bug-out-bags about 6 months ago and some
of the responders mocked me for being paranoid and some kind of
survivalist nut job. I still have them ready to go for me and my dog,
my brother and his wife. They have water/food enough for 4 days each.
Anything comes along and we are told to get out, I grab the bags, the
dog(she rides in a plastic milk case on the back) and the moped(bought
for $50) head to my brothers house they get their mopeds and we are
out of the area and down the road. I have shown just about everyone on
my street how to do it and those that didn't laugh and go back to
watch MTV are the ones that will survive. You can't depend on others
to for you that which you should be doing in the first place. The
whole thing including the bike cost about $150 bucks.

Stan Horwitz said:

You mean that young children and the elderly can ride a bike at 15MPH? I
don't think so. What about those who have to carry their belongings? Not
everyone can ride a bike fast with a heavy backpack strapped to them,
and a lot of people (such as me) do not even have a bike handy.

I had a bike with a speedometer on it and riding a bike at 15 MPH is
what I would call a leisure pace. Anything slower than that and you
have to work harder to keep the bike balanced.