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OT: Bumper sticker evokes road rage

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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11 March 2005
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18 March 2005
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John Hanson
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  1. http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/10/Hillsborough/Bumper_sticker_evokes.shtml

    Bumper sticker evokes road rage
    Her Bush-Cheney sticker sent him into a tirade that led to a dangerous
    car chase through the streets of Tampa.
    By SHANNON COLAVECCHIO-VAN SICKLER, Times Staff Writer
    Published March 10, 2005

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Related 10 News video:

    Political road rage

    TAMPA - Politics has always been divisive, splitting families and
    turning friend against friend.

    This week, though, a Tampa woman learned that simple Bush-Cheney
    bumper sticker can bring trouble, if not danger, from a total
    stranger.

    Police say Michelle Fernandez, 35, was chased for miles Tuesday by an
    irate 31-year-old Tampa man who cursed at her as he held up an
    anti-Bush sign and tried to run her off the road.

    His sign, about the size of a business letter, read:

    Never Forget Bush's Illegal Oil War Murdered Thousands in Iraq.

    "I guess this was a disgruntled Democrat," Tampa Police spokesman Joe
    Durkin said. "Maybe he has that sign with him so he's prepared any
    time he comes up against a Republican."

    Police arrested Nathan Alan Winkler at his home on N Cleveland Street
    near Hyde Park within an hour of the incident.

    After finding the antiwar sign in his car, they booked him into the
    county jail on one count of aggravated stalking, a third-degree felony
    punishable by up to five years in prison, Durkin said.

    He posted his $2,000 bond and was released early Wednesday, jail
    records show. This was Winkler's first arrest in Florida, according to
    the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

    Winkler, listed in jail records as a contractor, could not be reached
    Wednesday. Durkin said Winkler told police officers he got upset with
    Fernandez because she "gave him the finger."

    Fernandez told the Times Wednesday that "whatever gestures I made, I
    made them because I was trying to figure out why he was honking at me
    and pointing to his sign."

    "At first I didn't know why he was screaming at me," she said. "Then
    it clicked."

    In her frantic nine-minute call Tuesday to a 911 dispatcher, Fernandez
    said it was the Bush Cheney '04 bumper sticker on her green Ford
    Expedition that set the other driver off.

    "I was just almost run off the road by a man," she told the dispatcher
    at 5:14 p.m. She was taking her son, 10, and daughter, 3, to a
    ballfield.

    "He just ran me off because I have a Bush bumper sticker in my car. He
    had some type of - he drove up next to me with - he had a sign on it
    like hanging from his - from the passenger window, that said something
    about the war in Iraq. . . . I'm shaking like a leaf."

    Durkin said Winkler started following Fernandez at the intersection of
    Columbus Drive and Armenia Avenue shortly after 5 p.m.

    "He told our officers that he just got mad at her, so he went after
    her," Durkin said.

    As Fernandez drove south on Armenia, the other driver pulled alongside
    her in his black 1996 Nissan, beeping his horn and "flailing his
    arms," according to a police report.

    He held the antiwar sign up to his passenger-side window, she said,
    following her along busy streets in south and west Tampa and veering
    into her path, forcing her to swerve to avoid a collision. She pleaded
    with the dispatcher for help and tried to get away by running through
    stop signs and changing directions.

    "Oh, now he's following me! I'm gonna get back on Kennedy now. I don't
    know what to do!" she told the dispatcher, her voice rising.

    At one point the man pulled his car in front of Fernandez's, got out
    and started running toward her, Fernandez told police.

    "He just pulled over next to me, he's stopping the car, it's
    ridiculous, this man!" she said. "He's running after my car. Oh my
    goodness, he's a fanatic, he's in the middle of the street!"

    She drove along Arrawana Avenue and Habana Street, then back onto
    Kennedy Boulevard, but she couldn't shake him, Durkin said.

    "He's trying to hurt us. Look at this, what a moron," she said. "Look
    at him! . . . Idiot!"

    The dispatcher told Fernandez to drive to the Tampa police office near
    Raymond James Stadium, but she drove instead to the ballfield where
    she had been headed with her children before the chase. She met with a
    police officer and carefully described the Nissan and its tag number,
    Durkin said.

    Officers traced the tag to Winkler, went to his home within an hour
    and arrested him.

    "This could have been tragic, for her and her children and for other
    people on the road as this was going on," Durkin said. "But she did
    all the right things. She showed remarkable poise, she didn't engage
    him. She called us."

    Tuesday's confrontation comes as authorities investigate two recent
    roadway incidents, one of which ended in the shooting death of a
    Wesley Chapel man on his way to the Strawberry Festival in Plant City.

    David Neel, 49, was found dead in his gray and blue Ford F250 pickup
    truck Sunday after a bullet pierced his door and hit him in the chest.

    The truck had veered off southbound I-75 at the ramp onto eastbound
    Interstate 4 and hit a tree, according to Hillsborough Sheriff's
    investigators. They believe he was shot as he drove along the highway,
    likely by someone in a moving vehicle.

    Monday, a Zephyrhills woman driving south on Morris Bridge Road in
    Pasco County lost her rear passenger window to what Pasco
    investigators believe was a BB gun.

    But Tuesday's incident had something different - a partisan political
    sting.

    Janee Murphy, chairwoman of Hillsborough's Democratic Executive
    Committee, said bumper stickers and campaign signs attracted plenty of
    aggressive behavior during the election cycle, although nothing as
    scary as Tuesday's confrontation.

    "A lot of our Democrats that had Kerry stickers came across people who
    got very aggressive," Murphy said. "They were having their cars keyed,
    having cars come up very close to them. We've had situations where
    people curse at them, give hand gestures because of what they have on
    their car.

    "But it's just sad, no matter what your political beliefs are," she
    said. "We don't need people fighting with each other at home when we
    have so much going on in the Middle East."

    Attempts to reach Al Higginbotham, Hillsborough Republican chairman,
    were unsuccessful.

    Records show Winkler has been registered as a Democrat since 1996 and
    has lived in the Tampa Bay area for more than a decade. Calls to his
    home were not returned.

    Winkler's father, John Winkler, 59, of Safety Harbor, didn't know
    about the incident until a St. Petersburg Times reporter called him.
    He said his son, a Web designer, is "kind of a laid back guy."

    "That is so not like Nathan," he said. "I know that he is very
    anti-Bush. But I don't see him doing anything like that. He's
    certainly not aggressive. He's the least aggressive person I know."

    Fernandez, too, is a Democrat. She has been a card-carrying party
    member since August 1988 - a few months before George W.'s father,
    George Herbert Walker Bush, was elected president.

    Members of Fernandez's family said they don't necessarily vote along
    party lines. Fernandez voted for Bush in his recent re-election bid,
    they said.

    "I'm registered as a Democrat," Fernandez's mother Marie Fernandez
    said. "And I voted for Bush, too. Party doesn't matter."

    "I respect him for having his beliefs and feeling so strongly,"
    Michelle Fernandez said Wednesday night, her nerves still frayed. "But
    here he is protesting the war and lost lives, and he is going to put
    me and my children in danger? This man has a serious problem."

    Times staff researchers Kitty Bennett, Cathy Wos and Carolyn Edds and
    staff writer Kevin Graham contributed to this report. Shannon
    Colavecchio-Van Sickler can be reached at [email hidden] or
    813 226-3373.

    THE 911 CALL
    Highlights from Michelle Fernandez's call to 911 dispatchers:

    DISPATCH: 911, what's your emergency?

    FERNANDEZ: Um, I was just almost run off the road by a man. He just
    ran me off because I have a Bush bumper sticker in my car. He had some
    type of - he drove up next to me with - he had a sign on it like
    hanging from his - from the passenger window that said something about
    the war in Iraq. I mean, I am shaking like a leaf. Oh, now he's
    following me. I'm going to get back on Kennedy now. I don't know what
    to do!

    DISPATCH: Where are you on Kennedy?

    FERNANDEZ: Right now I'm on Kennedy and Arrawana. Look, he just pulled
    over next to me, he's stopping the car, it's ridiculous, this man!
    Look he's running after my car, Oh my goodness, he's a fanatic, he's
    in the middle of the street! Now he's following me. He's trying to
    hurt us. Look at this, what a moron. Look at him! Idiot.

    DISPATCH: Is that him blowing his horn at you?

    FERNANDEZ: No, I was blowing my horn at somebody 'cause I'm running
    stop lights and everything else to get away from him.

    Source: Tampa Police, Tampa Bay's 10 News

  2. Every time I see a Bush sticker...I look at the person like they are just
    stupid and I laugh. My new sticker on my Blazer is

    www.buyblue.org

    Jim

  3. In article said:

    Every time I see a Bush sticker...I look at the person like they are just
    stupid and I laugh. My new sticker on my Blazer is

    Yes, of course, because only idiots could disagree.

    -- Dan

    --
    Dan Cosley ([email hidden] * http://www.cs.umn.edu/~cosley/)
    GroupLens Research Lab, Univ of MN (http://movielens.umn.edu/ * 612.624.8372)
    *** Just a foot soldier in the Army of Truth ***

  4. Jim said:

    Every time I see a Bush sticker...I look at the person like they are just
    stupid and I laugh. My new sticker on my Blazer is

    www.buyblue.org

    Jim

    You're on the road to being a soy-eating vegan, Jim. Might as well
    snap some lycra on your ass, too.

    -----------
    Proton Soup

    "And all this peace has been deceiving,
    I need some wind to get me sailing"

  5. "Dan Cosley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    In article said:

    Every time I see a Bush sticker...I look at the person like they are just
    stupid and I laugh. My new sticker on my Blazer is

    Yes, of course, because only idiots could disagree.

    -- Dan


    Hello Dittohead! Hey..I know you are so full of [censored] and immune....have you
    ever had a liberal tell you to suck [censored]? No? Well you just did...now..go
    listen to Rush big boy.

    Jim

  6. "Proton Soup" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jim said:

    Every time I see a Bush sticker...I look at the person like they are just
    stupid and I laugh. My new sticker on my Blazer is

    www.buyblue.org

    Jim

    You're on the road to being a soy-eating vegan, Jim. Might as well
    snap some lycra on your ass, too.


    Hardly! Im a meat eating gun toting liberal...Its not easy being this
    way..but dammit...

    Jim

  7. Jim said:
    Dan Cosley said:
    Jim said:

    Every time I see a Bush sticker...I look at the person like they are just
    stupid and I laugh. My new sticker on my Blazer is

    Yes, of course, because only idiots could disagree.


    Hello Dittohead! Hey..I know you are so full of [censored] and immune....have you
    ever had a liberal tell you to suck [censored]? No? Well you just did...now..go
    listen to Rush big boy.

    Have another beer, Jim.
    --

    JMW
    http://www.rustyiron.net

  8. "JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Jim said:
    Dan Cosley said:

    Jim wrote:
    > Every time I see a Bush sticker...I look at the person like they are
    > just
    > stupid and I laugh. My new sticker on my Blazer is

    Yes, of course, because only idiots could disagree.


    Hello Dittohead! Hey..I know you are so full of [censored] and immune....have
    you
    ever had a liberal tell you to suck [censored]? No? Well you just
    did...now..go
    listen to Rush big boy.

    Have another beer, Jim.
    --

    Hi John...

    Jim

  9. John Hanson said:

    http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/10/Hillsborough/Bumper_sticker_evokes.shtml

    Bumper sticker evokes road rage
    Her Bush-Cheney sticker sent him into a tirade that led to a dangerous
    car chase through the streets of Tampa.
    By SHANNON COLAVECCHIO-VAN SICKLER, Times Staff Writer
    Published March 10, 2005

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Related 10 News video:

    Political road rage

    TAMPA - Politics has always been divisive, splitting families and
    turning friend against friend.

    This week, though, a Tampa woman learned that simple Bush-Cheney
    bumper sticker can bring trouble, if not danger, from a total
    stranger.

    Police say Michelle Fernandez, 35, was chased for miles Tuesday by an
    irate 31-year-old Tampa man who cursed at her as he held up an
    anti-Bush sign and tried to run her off the road.

    His sign, about the size of a business letter, read:

    Never Forget Bush's Illegal Oil War Murdered Thousands in Iraq.

    "I guess this was a disgruntled Democrat," Tampa Police spokesman Joe
    Durkin said. "Maybe he has that sign with him so he's prepared any
    time he comes up against a Republican."

    Police arrested Nathan Alan Winkler at his home on N Cleveland Street
    near Hyde Park within an hour of the incident.

    After finding the antiwar sign in his car, they booked him into the
    county jail on one count of aggravated stalking, a third-degree felony
    punishable by up to five years in prison, Durkin said.

    He posted his $2,000 bond and was released early Wednesday, jail
    records show. This was Winkler's first arrest in Florida, according to
    the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

    Winkler, listed in jail records as a contractor, could not be reached
    Wednesday. Durkin said Winkler told police officers he got upset with
    Fernandez because she "gave him the finger."

    Fernandez told the Times Wednesday that "whatever gestures I made, I
    made them because I was trying to figure out why he was honking at me
    and pointing to his sign."

    "At first I didn't know why he was screaming at me," she said. "Then
    it clicked."

    In her frantic nine-minute call Tuesday to a 911 dispatcher, Fernandez
    said it was the Bush Cheney '04 bumper sticker on her green Ford
    Expedition that set the other driver off.

    "I was just almost run off the road by a man," she told the dispatcher
    at 5:14 p.m. She was taking her son, 10, and daughter, 3, to a
    ballfield.

    "He just ran me off because I have a Bush bumper sticker in my car. He
    had some type of - he drove up next to me with - he had a sign on it
    like hanging from his - from the passenger window, that said something
    about the war in Iraq. . . . I'm shaking like a leaf."

    Durkin said Winkler started following Fernandez at the intersection of
    Columbus Drive and Armenia Avenue shortly after 5 p.m.

    "He told our officers that he just got mad at her, so he went after
    her," Durkin said.

    As Fernandez drove south on Armenia, the other driver pulled alongside
    her in his black 1996 Nissan, beeping his horn and "flailing his
    arms," according to a police report.

    He held the antiwar sign up to his passenger-side window, she said,
    following her along busy streets in south and west Tampa and veering
    into her path, forcing her to swerve to avoid a collision. She pleaded
    with the dispatcher for help and tried to get away by running through
    stop signs and changing directions.

    "Oh, now he's following me! I'm gonna get back on Kennedy now. I don't
    know what to do!" she told the dispatcher, her voice rising.

    At one point the man pulled his car in front of Fernandez's, got out
    and started running toward her, Fernandez told police.

    "He just pulled over next to me, he's stopping the car, it's
    ridiculous, this man!" she said. "He's running after my car. Oh my
    goodness, he's a fanatic, he's in the middle of the street!"

    She drove along Arrawana Avenue and Habana Street, then back onto
    Kennedy Boulevard, but she couldn't shake him, Durkin said.

    "He's trying to hurt us. Look at this, what a moron," she said. "Look
    at him! . . . Idiot!"

    The dispatcher told Fernandez to drive to the Tampa police office near
    Raymond James Stadium, but she drove instead to the ballfield where
    she had been headed with her children before the chase. She met with a
    police officer and carefully described the Nissan and its tag number,
    Durkin said.

    Officers traced the tag to Winkler, went to his home within an hour
    and arrested him.

    "This could have been tragic, for her and her children and for other
    people on the road as this was going on," Durkin said. "But she did
    all the right things. She showed remarkable poise, she didn't engage
    him. She called us."

    Tuesday's confrontation comes as authorities investigate two recent
    roadway incidents, one of which ended in the shooting death of a
    Wesley Chapel man on his way to the Strawberry Festival in Plant City.

    David Neel, 49, was found dead in his gray and blue Ford F250 pickup
    truck Sunday after a bullet pierced his door and hit him in the chest.

    The truck had veered off southbound I-75 at the ramp onto eastbound
    Interstate 4 and hit a tree, according to Hillsborough Sheriff's
    investigators. They believe he was shot as he drove along the highway,
    likely by someone in a moving vehicle.

    Monday, a Zephyrhills woman driving south on Morris Bridge Road in
    Pasco County lost her rear passenger window to what Pasco
    investigators believe was a BB gun.

    But Tuesday's incident had something different - a partisan political
    sting.

    Janee Murphy, chairwoman of Hillsborough's Democratic Executive
    Committee, said bumper stickers and campaign signs attracted plenty of
    aggressive behavior during the election cycle, although nothing as
    scary as Tuesday's confrontation.

    "A lot of our Democrats that had Kerry stickers came across people who
    got very aggressive," Murphy said. "They were having their cars keyed,
    having cars come up very close to them. We've had situations where
    people curse at them, give hand gestures because of what they have on
    their car.

    "But it's just sad, no matter what your political beliefs are," she
    said. "We don't need people fighting with each other at home when we
    have so much going on in the Middle East."

    Attempts to reach Al Higginbotham, Hillsborough Republican chairman,
    were unsuccessful.

    Records show Winkler has been registered as a Democrat since 1996 and
    has lived in the Tampa Bay area for more than a decade. Calls to his
    home were not returned.

    Winkler's father, John Winkler, 59, of Safety Harbor, didn't know
    about the incident until a St. Petersburg Times reporter called him.
    He said his son, a Web designer, is "kind of a laid back guy."

    "That is so not like Nathan," he said. "I know that he is very
    anti-Bush. But I don't see him doing anything like that. He's
    certainly not aggressive. He's the least aggressive person I know."

    Fernandez, too, is a Democrat. She has been a card-carrying party
    member since August 1988 - a few months before George W.'s father,
    George Herbert Walker Bush, was elected president.

    Members of Fernandez's family said they don't necessarily vote along
    party lines. Fernandez voted for Bush in his recent re-election bid,
    they said.

    "I'm registered as a Democrat," Fernandez's mother Marie Fernandez
    said. "And I voted for Bush, too. Party doesn't matter."

    "I respect him for having his beliefs and feeling so strongly,"
    Michelle Fernandez said Wednesday night, her nerves still frayed. "But
    here he is protesting the war and lost lives, and he is going to put
    me and my children in danger? This man has a serious problem."

    Times staff researchers Kitty Bennett, Cathy Wos and Carolyn Edds and
    staff writer Kevin Graham contributed to this report. Shannon
    Colavecchio-Van Sickler can be reached at [email hidden] or
    813 226-3373.

    THE 911 CALL
    Highlights from Michelle Fernandez's call to 911 dispatchers:

    DISPATCH: 911, what's your emergency?

    FERNANDEZ: Um, I was just almost run off the road by a man. He just
    ran me off because I have a Bush bumper sticker in my car. He had some
    type of - he drove up next to me with - he had a sign on it like
    hanging from his - from the passenger window that said something about
    the war in Iraq. I mean, I am shaking like a leaf. Oh, now he's
    following me. I'm going to get back on Kennedy now. I don't know what
    to do!

    DISPATCH: Where are you on Kennedy?

    FERNANDEZ: Right now I'm on Kennedy and Arrawana. Look, he just pulled
    over next to me, he's stopping the car, it's ridiculous, this man!
    Look he's running after my car, Oh my goodness, he's a fanatic, he's
    in the middle of the street! Now he's following me. He's trying to
    hurt us. Look at this, what a moron. Look at him! Idiot.

    DISPATCH: Is that him blowing his horn at you?

    FERNANDEZ: No, I was blowing my horn at somebody 'cause I'm running
    stop lights and everything else to get away from him.

    Source: Tampa Police, Tampa Bay's 10 News

    Just a typical Demoncrat with a chip on his shoulder. Like Hank.
    --
    -Larry

  10. "Jim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Dan Cosley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    In article said:

    Every time I see a Bush sticker...I look at the person like they are


    just

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    stupid and I laugh. My new sticker on my Blazer is

    Yes, of course, because only idiots could disagree.

    -- Dan


    Hello Dittohead! Hey..I know you are so full of [censored] and immune....have


    you

    Quoted message said:

    ever had a liberal tell you to suck [censored]? No? Well you just


    did...now..go

    Quoted message said:

    listen to Rush big boy.

    Jim


    Ha ha!

  11. Jim said:


    "Dan Cosley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    In article said:

    Every time I see a Bush sticker...I look at the person like they are just
    stupid and I laugh. My new sticker on my Blazer is

    Yes, of course, because only idiots could disagree.

    -- Dan


    Hello Dittohead! Hey..I know you are so full of [censored] and immune....have you
    ever had a liberal tell you to suck [censored]? No? Well you just did...now..go
    listen to Rush big boy.

    It is an extremely dangerous assumption that all people who do not
    agree with you are idiots.

    This is particularly true in politics where many millions of people
    will not be of your political persuasion, and you will have any number
    of potentially dangerous enemies wherever you go.

    If you want to avoid 'complications' keep your vehicle clear of all
    paraphernalia that identifies your social and political leanings. In
    fact don't adorn your vehicle with anything that is not required by
    law.

    I won't even allow the supplier of my vehicles to leave any of his
    sales stickers. Why should I advertise his wares for nothing, and
    announce to the world where I can be readily identified?

    Have a great weekend - I always do!! ;o)

    TFIF!!

  12. Charles said:
    Jim said:

    "Dan Cosley" <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:

    Jim wrote:
    > Every time I see a Bush sticker...I look at the person like they


    are just

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > stupid and I laugh. My new sticker on my Blazer is

    Yes, of course, because only idiots could disagree.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Hello Dittohead! Hey..I know you are so full of [censored] and


    immune....have you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ever had a liberal tell you to suck [censored]? No? Well you just


    did...now..go

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    listen to Rush big boy.

    It is an extremely dangerous assumption that all people who do not
    agree with you are idiots.

    Right. They're TROLLS!

    David

  13. On 11 Mar 2005 04:34:08 -0800, "David Cohen" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    Charles said:
    Jim said:

    "Dan Cosley" <[email hidden]> wrote
    > Jim wrote:
    >> Every time I see a Bush sticker...I look at the person like they


    are just

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    >> stupid and I laugh. My new sticker on my Blazer is
    >
    > Yes, of course, because only idiots could disagree.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Hello Dittohead! Hey..I know you are so full of [censored] and


    immune....have you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ever had a liberal tell you to suck [censored]? No? Well you just


    did...now..go

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    listen to Rush big boy.

    It is an extremely dangerous assumption that all people who do not
    agree with you are idiots.

    Right. They're TROLLS!

    Quite so Cohen, quite so!! ;o)

    Have a great weekend David - you know I will!!

    TFIF!!

  14. In the last election in my city if you had a Kerry lawn sign
    in the suburbs or a Bush sign in the inner city,
    they didn't last long. Very polarized this round.

  15. John Hanson said:

    http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/10/Hillsborough/Bumper_sticker_evokes.shtml

    DISPATCH: Is that him blowing his horn at you?

    FERNANDEZ: No, I was blowing my horn at somebody 'cause I'm
    running stop lights and everything else to get away from him.

    Wow, whatta nut case. Risking the lives of innocent drivers
    and her own kids because someone showed her a sign. And she
    admits to initiating the conflict by flipping the guy the
    bird. Typical bu$h worshipping moron "living" with hate, fear,
    and ignorance. I bet she sealed her house with duct tape and
    plastic, too. <chuckle>

    --

    "God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them. And then
    he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did."
    -- George W. Bush

    "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the
    will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the
    Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
    -- Adolf [censored]

    "I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and I really
    don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
    -- George W. Bush, March 13, 2002

    http://globalresearch.ca/

    George W. Bush: "Intelligence gathered by this and other
    governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues
    to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever
    devised." March 17, 2003.

    "I think this is the worst government the US has ever
    had in its more than 200 years of history. It has
    engaged in extraordinarily irresponsible policies not
    only in foreign policy and economics but also in social
    and environmental policy.....This is not normal government
    policy. Now is the time for people to engage in civil
    disobedience. I think it's time to protest - as much as
    possible....What we have here is a form of looting."
    - George A. Akerlof, 2001 Nobel prize laureate economist

    "One of the things we don't want to do is destroy the
    infrastructure in Iraq because in a few days we're going
    to own that country," - Tom Brokaw

    Cost of probing Bill Clinton's sex life: $65 million.
    Cost of probing the Columbia shuttle disaster: $50 million.
    Funds assigned to independent Sept. 11 panel: $3 million.

    http://www.commondreams.org/
    http://www.truthout.org/
    http://counterpunch.org/
    http://responsiblewealth.org/

    "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
    or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is
    not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
    to the American public."
    -- Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

    "You know, when bu$h said that he's against nation building,
    I didn't realize that he meant only the United States"
    -- Al Franken

    Don't let bu$h do to the United States what his very close
    friend and top campaign contributor, Ken Lay, did to Enron...

  16. "Hank" babbled some more [censored]

    Change you e-mail addy again Hankey??

    Back into the bozo bin for you.

  17. Will you never learn?

  18. "Larry Hodges" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    John Hanson said:


    http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/10/Hillsborough/Bumper_sticker_evokes.shtml

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Bumper sticker evokes road rage
    Her Bush-Cheney sticker sent him into a tirade that led to a dangerous
    car chase through the streets of Tampa.
    By SHANNON COLAVECCHIO-VAN SICKLER, Times Staff Writer
    Published March 10, 2005

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------


    ------

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Related 10 News video:

    Political road rage

    TAMPA - Politics has always been divisive, splitting families and
    turning friend against friend.

    This week, though, a Tampa woman learned that simple Bush-Cheney
    bumper sticker can bring trouble, if not danger, from a total
    stranger.

    Police say Michelle Fernandez, 35, was chased for miles Tuesday by an
    irate 31-year-old Tampa man who cursed at her as he held up an
    anti-Bush sign and tried to run her off the road.

    His sign, about the size of a business letter, read:

    Never Forget Bush's Illegal Oil War Murdered Thousands in Iraq.

    "I guess this was a disgruntled Democrat," Tampa Police spokesman Joe
    Durkin said. "Maybe he has that sign with him so he's prepared any
    time he comes up against a Republican."

    Police arrested Nathan Alan Winkler at his home on N Cleveland Street
    near Hyde Park within an hour of the incident.

    After finding the antiwar sign in his car, they booked him into the
    county jail on one count of aggravated stalking, a third-degree felony
    punishable by up to five years in prison, Durkin said.

    He posted his $2,000 bond and was released early Wednesday, jail
    records show. This was Winkler's first arrest in Florida, according to
    the Florida Department of Law Enforcement.

    Winkler, listed in jail records as a contractor, could not be reached
    Wednesday. Durkin said Winkler told police officers he got upset with
    Fernandez because she "gave him the finger."

    Fernandez told the Times Wednesday that "whatever gestures I made, I
    made them because I was trying to figure out why he was honking at me
    and pointing to his sign."

    "At first I didn't know why he was screaming at me," she said. "Then
    it clicked."

    In her frantic nine-minute call Tuesday to a 911 dispatcher, Fernandez
    said it was the Bush Cheney '04 bumper sticker on her green Ford
    Expedition that set the other driver off.

    "I was just almost run off the road by a man," she told the dispatcher
    at 5:14 p.m. She was taking her son, 10, and daughter, 3, to a
    ballfield.

    "He just ran me off because I have a Bush bumper sticker in my car. He
    had some type of - he drove up next to me with - he had a sign on it
    like hanging from his - from the passenger window, that said something
    about the war in Iraq. . . . I'm shaking like a leaf."

    Durkin said Winkler started following Fernandez at the intersection of
    Columbus Drive and Armenia Avenue shortly after 5 p.m.

    "He told our officers that he just got mad at her, so he went after
    her," Durkin said.

    As Fernandez drove south on Armenia, the other driver pulled alongside
    her in his black 1996 Nissan, beeping his horn and "flailing his
    arms," according to a police report.

    He held the antiwar sign up to his passenger-side window, she said,
    following her along busy streets in south and west Tampa and veering
    into her path, forcing her to swerve to avoid a collision. She pleaded
    with the dispatcher for help and tried to get away by running through
    stop signs and changing directions.

    "Oh, now he's following me! I'm gonna get back on Kennedy now. I don't
    know what to do!" she told the dispatcher, her voice rising.

    At one point the man pulled his car in front of Fernandez's, got out
    and started running toward her, Fernandez told police.

    "He just pulled over next to me, he's stopping the car, it's
    ridiculous, this man!" she said. "He's running after my car. Oh my
    goodness, he's a fanatic, he's in the middle of the street!"

    She drove along Arrawana Avenue and Habana Street, then back onto
    Kennedy Boulevard, but she couldn't shake him, Durkin said.

    "He's trying to hurt us. Look at this, what a moron," she said. "Look
    at him! . . . Idiot!"

    The dispatcher told Fernandez to drive to the Tampa police office near
    Raymond James Stadium, but she drove instead to the ballfield where
    she had been headed with her children before the chase. She met with a
    police officer and carefully described the Nissan and its tag number,
    Durkin said.

    Officers traced the tag to Winkler, went to his home within an hour
    and arrested him.

    "This could have been tragic, for her and her children and for other
    people on the road as this was going on," Durkin said. "But she did
    all the right things. She showed remarkable poise, she didn't engage
    him. She called us."

    Tuesday's confrontation comes as authorities investigate two recent
    roadway incidents, one of which ended in the shooting death of a
    Wesley Chapel man on his way to the Strawberry Festival in Plant City.

    David Neel, 49, was found dead in his gray and blue Ford F250 pickup
    truck Sunday after a bullet pierced his door and hit him in the chest.

    The truck had veered off southbound I-75 at the ramp onto eastbound
    Interstate 4 and hit a tree, according to Hillsborough Sheriff's
    investigators. They believe he was shot as he drove along the highway,
    likely by someone in a moving vehicle.

    Monday, a Zephyrhills woman driving south on Morris Bridge Road in
    Pasco County lost her rear passenger window to what Pasco
    investigators believe was a BB gun.

    But Tuesday's incident had something different - a partisan political
    sting.

    Janee Murphy, chairwoman of Hillsborough's Democratic Executive
    Committee, said bumper stickers and campaign signs attracted plenty of
    aggressive behavior during the election cycle, although nothing as
    scary as Tuesday's confrontation.

    "A lot of our Democrats that had Kerry stickers came across people who
    got very aggressive," Murphy said. "They were having their cars keyed,
    having cars come up very close to them. We've had situations where
    people curse at them, give hand gestures because of what they have on
    their car.

    "But it's just sad, no matter what your political beliefs are," she
    said. "We don't need people fighting with each other at home when we
    have so much going on in the Middle East."

    Attempts to reach Al Higginbotham, Hillsborough Republican chairman,
    were unsuccessful.

    Records show Winkler has been registered as a Democrat since 1996 and
    has lived in the Tampa Bay area for more than a decade. Calls to his
    home were not returned.

    Winkler's father, John Winkler, 59, of Safety Harbor, didn't know
    about the incident until a St. Petersburg Times reporter called him.
    He said his son, a Web designer, is "kind of a laid back guy."

    "That is so not like Nathan," he said. "I know that he is very
    anti-Bush. But I don't see him doing anything like that. He's
    certainly not aggressive. He's the least aggressive person I know."

    Fernandez, too, is a Democrat. She has been a card-carrying party
    member since August 1988 - a few months before George W.'s father,
    George Herbert Walker Bush, was elected president.

    Members of Fernandez's family said they don't necessarily vote along
    party lines. Fernandez voted for Bush in his recent re-election bid,
    they said.

    "I'm registered as a Democrat," Fernandez's mother Marie Fernandez
    said. "And I voted for Bush, too. Party doesn't matter."

    "I respect him for having his beliefs and feeling so strongly,"
    Michelle Fernandez said Wednesday night, her nerves still frayed. "But
    here he is protesting the war and lost lives, and he is going to put
    me and my children in danger? This man has a serious problem."

    Times staff researchers Kitty Bennett, Cathy Wos and Carolyn Edds and
    staff writer Kevin Graham contributed to this report. Shannon
    Colavecchio-Van Sickler can be reached at [email hidden] or
    813 226-3373.

    THE 911 CALL
    Highlights from Michelle Fernandez's call to 911 dispatchers:

    DISPATCH: 911, what's your emergency?

    FERNANDEZ: Um, I was just almost run off the road by a man. He just
    ran me off because I have a Bush bumper sticker in my car. He had some
    type of - he drove up next to me with - he had a sign on it like
    hanging from his - from the passenger window that said something about
    the war in Iraq. I mean, I am shaking like a leaf. Oh, now he's
    following me. I'm going to get back on Kennedy now. I don't know what
    to do!

    DISPATCH: Where are you on Kennedy?

    FERNANDEZ: Right now I'm on Kennedy and Arrawana. Look, he just pulled
    over next to me, he's stopping the car, it's ridiculous, this man!
    Look he's running after my car, Oh my goodness, he's a fanatic, he's
    in the middle of the street! Now he's following me. He's trying to
    hurt us. Look at this, what a moron. Look at him! Idiot.

    DISPATCH: Is that him blowing his horn at you?

    FERNANDEZ: No, I was blowing my horn at somebody 'cause I'm running
    stop lights and everything else to get away from him.

    Source: Tampa Police, Tampa Bay's 10 News

    Just a typical Demoncrat with a chip on his shoulder. Like Hank.
    --
    -Larry

    i'm against the concept of "hate crimes" however --- is this a hate crime?

    after all, he attacked this person based on perceived political ideology.

    is that any worse than perceived race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc?

    oh, the horror.

    whit

    Quoted message said:
  19. Sangfroid said:


    i'm against the concept of "hate crimes" however --- is this a hate crime?

    after all, he attacked this person based on perceived political ideology.

    is that any worse than perceived race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, etc?

    By "hate crime," I take it you mean offenses where penalties are
    higher because of the victim's status, correct?

    If so, do you believe that third degree assault on a law enforcement
    officer under RCW 9A.36.031(1)(g), a Class C felony, should be reduced
    to simple fourth degree assault under RCW 9A.36.041, a gross
    misdemeanor? There's a big difference between a maximum of five years
    in prison and a maximum of a year in the county jail.
    --

    JMW
    http://www.rustyiron.net

  20. "JMW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Sangfroid said:


    i'm against the concept of "hate crimes" however --- is this a hate


    crime?

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:


    after all, he attacked this person based on perceived political ideology.

    is that any worse than perceived race, ethnicity, sexual orientation,


    etc?

    Quoted message said:


    By "hate crime," I take it you mean offenses where penalties are
    higher because of the victim's status, correct?

    If so, do you believe that third degree assault on a law enforcement
    officer under RCW 9A.36.031(1)(g), a Class C felony, should be reduced
    to simple fourth degree assault under RCW 9A.36.041, a gross
    misdemeanor? There's a big difference between a maximum of five years
    in prison and a maximum of a year in the county jail.
    --

    JMW

    no, and i also support higher crimes for other people engaged in various
    PROFESSIONS, which they choose to do by choice

    those are different from hate crimes, for the obious reason

    fwiw, most ASSAULT 3's in WA state get between a week to 3 months in jail,
    and the prosecutor's won't charge ASSAULT 3 in my county unless there are
    pretty substantial injuries. but that's another story.

    whit

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.rustyiron.net

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