OT: Astonishing report from DfT

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've just been notified about this report on the DfT website, 'Bringing children into the social
contract of road use' (DfT April 2003) - see tinyurl.comw95dOpen ↗

My correspondent comments: "It is based around the premise that children aged between 5 and 8
should be 'trained' in things like 'understanding of

a

Quoted message said:

driver's psychological limitations (reaction time, attention, etc)' by

the

Quoted message said:

use of a 12 page booklet. But what is this 'social contract of road use', and whose children have
signed up to it?"

Here's a choice quote:

'The idea that the traffic flow may be too complex/too swift for one's skills, and that it is
appropriate to give up in such circumstances, is arguably the critical idea which the young should
be taught. Anecdotal evidence (supported by pilot work) suggests that the young may try to use
traffic skills, but when these fail, may go ahead with the crossing

("*then

Quoted message said:

I shut my eyes and hope for the best", as one 12-year-old put it * Thornton, 1998). Stopping such
behaviour is essential.'

It seems that official policy is to defer to the car - no surprise there. No doubt there is a
similar booklet underway telling us cyclists that the solution to speeding traffic is for us to
get off the roads.

--
Guy chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗ "Sic hoc adfixum in obice legere potes, et liberaliter
educatus et nimis propinquus ades"

I'm going for a job with a local council as 'Walking Officer'. I believe the point of this role is
to liase with schools to ensure that children are educated in 'the ways of the road'...oh how times
have changed. I mentioned in the job application that I've been practising for 42 years (no, I
didn't really but wish I had ;-) and that my time spent on my bicycle keeps me in touch with both
the very real and perceived dangers out there. Dave.

you know? said:

I've just been notified about this report on the DfT website, 'Bringing children into the social
contract of road use' (DfT April 2003) - see tinyurl.comw95dOpen ↗

My correspondent comments: "It is based around the premise that children aged between 5 and 8
should be 'trained' in things like 'understanding of a driver's psychological limitations (reaction
time, attention, etc)' by the use of a 12 page booklet. But what is this 'social contract of road
use', and whose children have signed up to it?"

Here's a choice quote:

'The idea that the traffic flow may be too complex/too swift for one's skills, and that it is
appropriate to give up in such circumstances, is arguably the critical idea which the young should
be taught. Anecdotal evidence (supported by pilot work) suggests that the young may try to use
traffic skills, but when these fail, may go ahead with the crossing ("*then I shut my eyes and hope
for the best", as one 12-year-old put it * Thornton, 1998). Stopping such behaviour is essential.'

It seems that official policy is to defer to the car - no surprise there. No doubt there is a
similar booklet underway telling us cyclists that the solution to speeding traffic is for us to get
off the roads.

I think it's on the basis of this (or at least similar) document that Hants CC have virtually
banned cycling to primary schools. The guidance for school travel (available on the web) is pretty
strong against primary age children cycling. It would take a brave headmaster to go against the
guidance I suspect.

A Chairman of Governers I know was appalled [well, dismissive at least] when I suggested he include
cycling in the travel plan he was writing.

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

keeps me in touch with both the very real and perceived dangers out there. Dave.

You've put the problem in a nutshell - "Real" and "perceived" danger. For example - they did a
survey some years ago as to the VAST numbers of parents who drove their children through Kings Cross
to school because of the "perceived" danger - when in fact at school opening and closing times, the
incidence of crimes committed in Kings Cross are actually some of the lowest in the country!

Not Responding said:

I think it's on the basis of this (or at least similar) document that Hants CC have virtually
banned cycling to primary schools. The guidance for school travel (available on the web) is pretty
strong against primary age children cycling.

Despite the fact that they may not legally restrict the mode of transport used by any child, and
this policy is counter to Government guidelines. Oxfordshire is moving away from this policy.

Quoted message said:

A Chairman of Governers I know was appalled [well, dismissive at least] when I suggested he
include cycling in the travel plan he was writing.

I am a governor writing a travel plan ;-)

--
Guy chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗ "Sic hoc adfixum in obice legere potes, et liberaliter
educatus et nimis propinquus ades"

you know? said:

Not Responding said:

I think it's on the basis of this (or at least similar) document that Hants CC have virtually
banned cycling to primary schools. The guidance for school travel (available on the web) is
pretty strong against primary age children cycling.

Despite the fact that they may not legally restrict the mode of transport used by any child, and
this policy is counter to Government guidelines. Oxfordshire is moving away from this policy.

I would be interested if you could post a reference to whichever govt. guidelines specifically
addresses primary schools.

I'd also be keen to find out how Oxfordshire moved from one stance to the other.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A Chairman of Governers I know was appalled [well, dismissive at least] when I suggested he
include cycling in the travel plan he was writing.

I am a governor writing a travel plan ;-)

"[Not Responding]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

you know? said:

I've just been notified about this report on the DfT website, 'Bringing children into the social
contract of road use' (DfT April 2003) - see tinyurl.comw95dOpen ↗

My correspondent comments: "It is based around the premise that children aged between 5 and 8
should be 'trained' in things like 'understanding of

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

driver's psychological limitations (reaction time, attention, etc)' by

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

use of a 12 page booklet. But what is this 'social contract of road use', and whose children have
signed up to it?"

Here's a choice quote:

'The idea that the traffic flow may be too complex/too swift for one's skills, and that it is
appropriate to give up in such circumstances, is arguably the critical idea which the young
should be taught. Anecdotal evidence (supported by pilot work) suggests that the young may try to
use traffic skills, but when these fail, may go ahead with the crossing

("*then

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I shut my eyes and hope for the best", as one 12-year-old put it * Thornton, 1998). Stopping such
behaviour is essential.'

It seems that official policy is to defer to the car - no surprise there. No doubt there is a
similar booklet underway telling us cyclists that the solution to speeding traffic is for us to
get off the roads.

I think it's on the basis of this (or at least similar) document that Hants CC have virtually
banned cycling to primary schools. The guidance for school travel (available on the web) is pretty
strong against primary age children cycling. It would take a brave headmaster to go against the
guidance I suspect.

A Chairman of Governers I know was appalled [well, dismissive at least] when I suggested he
include cycling in the travel plan he was writing.

I think there's an underlying reason behind this lack of drive for schools to encourage cycling for
their children and it's this.... If every child took the initiative where would all the bikes be
parked during the school day?.... OK, that's a bit silly. Let's say half the kids take it up?...
Nope, still a bit silly.... a quarter ?...That could still easily be 100 bike parking spaces for a
primary and several hundred for a secondary. THEN there's the matter of security....who is
responsible when little Johnny's bike gets nicked / scratched / punctured / looked at in a strange
way etcetc. - who helps the little darlings if they get a puncture / the chain comes off / the
handle bars 'twizzle all the way round' etcetc.

Personally, I would love to see more folks on bikes and I would love to see it start from an early
age, however I think the reasons above are probably sufficient to deter most schools, unless of
course, they are lucky enough to have the likes of Guy on their board of guvs, who will be able to
raise and maintain the enthusiasm to drive the project through. Dave.
p.s. - thinking of starting a company that hires cycle storage and security out to schools so they
don't have to worry about it. Do you think it's worth it ?? - and if you do, no nicking it, 's
my idea ;-)

"rifleman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

keeps me in touch with both the very real and perceived dangers out

there.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Dave.

You've put the problem in a nutshell - "Real" and "perceived" danger. For example - they did a
survey some years ago as to the VAST numbers of parents who drove their children through Kings
Cross to school because of the "perceived" danger - when in fact at school opening and closing
times, the incidence of crimes committed in Kings Cross are actually some of the lowest in the
country!

Here's a thought....if we were to get the kids on their bikes, riding to school and their parents
had got nothing better to be doing, would they turn to crime?!!?.... Greatest argument for the
school run yet ;-) - keeps parents out of crime..

"Dave" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I think there's an underlying reason behind this lack of drive for schools to encourage cycling
for their children and it's this.... If every child took the initiative where would all the bikes
be parked during the school day?.... OK, that's a bit silly. Let's say half the kids take it
up?... Nope, still a bit silly.... a quarter ?...That could still easily be 100 bike parking
spaces for a primary and several hundred for a secondary. THEN there's the matter of
security....who is responsible when little Johnny's bike gets nicked / scratched / punctured /
looked at in a strange way etcetc. - who helps the little darlings if they get a puncture / the
chain comes off / the handle bars 'twizzle all the way round' etcetc.

I can't seem to remember any of those problems cycling to school in the late 60's - but then most
people didn't have flash MTBs and there were a LOT more bikes around, so the need to steel them
wasn't as great....

Dave said:

I think there's an underlying reason behind this lack of drive for schools to encourage cycling
for their children and it's this.... If every child took the initiative where would all the bikes
be parked during the school day?....

Imagine how much worse it would be if everyone drove a car to work. Where would they put all the
cars during the day? Oh, wait....

Quoted message said:

OK, that's a bit silly. Let's say half the kids take it up?... Nope, still a bit silly.... a
quarter ?...That could still easily be 100 bike parking spaces for a primary and several hundred
for a secondary.

At the rate of four bikes per Sheffield stand, costing £25 each, that's £625. How much does a
school car park cost to build & maintain?

Quoted message said:

THEN there's the matter of security....who is responsible when little Johnny's bike gets nicked /
scratched / punctured / looked at in a strange way etcetc.

Little Johnny. Try claiming from the school when Little Johnny gets his coat nicked and see how
far you get.

--
Guy chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗ "Sic hoc adfixum in obice legere potes, et liberaliter
educatus et nimis propinquus ades"

Not Responding said:

I would be interested if you could post a reference to whichever govt. guidelines specifically
addresses primary schools.

If you want the data for a particular purpose I would be inclined to email roger dot geffen at ctc
dot org dot uk, as the picture changes all the time.

Here's the document I'm reading at the moment:
<http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_localtrans/documents/page/dft_localtrans_504076-11.hcsp>

--
Guy chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗ "Sic hoc adfixum in obice legere potes, et liberaliter
educatus et nimis propinquus ades"

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave said:

I think there's an underlying reason behind this lack of drive for

schools

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to encourage cycling for their children and it's this.... If every child took the initiative
where would all the bikes be parked during the school day?....

Imagine how much worse it would be if everyone drove a car to work. Where would they put all the
cars during the day? Oh, wait....

Quoted message said:

OK, that's a bit silly. Let's say half the kids take it up?... Nope, still a bit silly.... a
quarter ?...That could still easily be 100 bike parking spaces for a primary and several hundred
for a secondary.

At the rate of four bikes per Sheffield stand, costing £25 each, that's £625. How much does a
school car park cost to build & maintain?

Quoted message said:

THEN there's the matter of security....who is responsible when little Johnny's bike gets nicked
/ scratched / punctured / looked at in a

strange

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

way etcetc.

Little Johnny. Try claiming from the school when Little Johnny gets his coat nicked and see how
far you get.

--
Guy chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗ "Sic hoc adfixum in obice legere potes, et liberaliter
educatus et nimis propinquus ades"

All of which proves my point exactly ;-)....oh, hang on a sec., selective snipping..cheers Guy, I'm
on your side, just suggesting possible reasons behind lack of enthusiasm from schools, who, after
all, are only there to teach our children the curriculum <s? heh-heh> Dave

On Tue, 25 Nov 2003 19:25:14 +0000 someone who may be "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

Here's the document I'm reading at the moment: <dft.gov.ukdft localtraOpen ↗
ns/documents/page/dft_localtrans_504076-11.hcsp>

I note that they drone on about, "Cycle permit schemes".

Perhaps you should suggest a car permit system, in which they check the car is roadworthy and has
passed a maintenance check, the driver has completed an approved training course, the car will only
be parked in an approved area, and the driver will follow a 'good motoring code'.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Dave said:

I'm on your side,

Irony filter packed up. Sorry :-)

--
Guy chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗ "Sic hoc adfixum in obice legere potes, et liberaliter
educatus et nimis propinquus ades"

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dave said:

I'm on your side,

Irony filter packed up. Sorry :-)

IMHO you do seem a bit tetchy at the moment, displaying itself in a willingness to address everyone
as if they're P**l Sm*th.
___
Michael MacClancy

Michael MacClancy said:

IMHO you do seem a bit tetchy at the moment, displaying itself in a willingness to address
everyone as if they're P**l Sm*th.

Not a surprise. Life is very stressful right now and I am also suffering from depression as I
occasionally do. And a chest infection which has reduced my average speed by 3mph, not that I could
ride fast on the roads in their present state anyway - too many fallen leaves, too much mud, too
many puddles stretching the entire width of the road. Normal service will be resumed as soon as
possible, but in the mean time if Sm*th and the crossposting Nugentoids would like to go and boil
their collective heads in a vat of their own [censored] that would do a lot to brighten up my day.

--
Guy chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗ "Sic hoc adfixum in obice legere potes, et liberaliter
educatus et nimis propinquus ades"