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OS Map Packages and GPS Interoperability?

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
10 February 2004
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17 February 2004
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Steve
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  1. Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:


    Confused? Use Ozi for your GPS.

    To be fair to Anquet, I've noticed that they have added more GPS features in the latest version and
    I think you can now convert tracks to paths and vice versa, or something like that, but I'm not
    sure because I've only looked at it briefly. I haven't seen enough improvements to persuade me to
    stop using Ozi. Anquet just wasn't designed for GPS, although I daresay that it's quite usable for
    that if you have no other option, and perhaps it doesn't seem as bad as I'm making it out to be if
    you've never used a program like Ozi.


    I have never tried Anquet, and your description has convinced me that I never will, although the
    1:25000 mapping will be hard to resist to plan a route and print a map off with the waypoints shown,
    then send them to the GPS.

    If you can do those basic things then it will save scanning maps into Ozi, but I would still want to
    plot the tracks on the map and examine them on screen.
    --
    Gordon

  2. "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Steve Orrell said:

    Can anyone help me with my queries? Does Anquet let you worth with your GPS data as well as
    OziExplorer (both to and from GPS)

    No. The basic problem with Anquet was that it was never designed for GPS use. The first version
    had no GPS functionality whatsoever, it was added as an afterthought. Because of this, certain
    fundamental design decisions were made which didn't suit GPS use, so making it work with GPS later
    was like forcing a square peg into a round hole.

    I wrote a review about Anquet once on this newsgroup, when I first tried it. groups.google.comgroups
    8& oe=UTF-8&selm=agt1k2%24f7m%241%40newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk&rnum=2

    The basic problem with using Anquet for GPS is that they use slightly different concepts which
    don't match properly. Anquet uses what they call "waypoints", "paths" and "routes". GPS units use
    what Garmin calls "waypoints", "tracks" and "routes".

    The problem is that an Anquet waypoint is not the same as a GPS waypoint, an Anquet path is not
    the same as a GPS track, and an Anquet route is not the same as a GPS route. They've tried to bash
    these pegs into roughly the same holes, but they don't work in quite the same way.

    A GPS waypoint contains coordinate data, a name, a description, an icon, and height data. An
    Anquet waypoint doesn't have a name or description as such, although they can be added as a
    separate piece of information. This info is not sent to the GPS. You can choose icons for Anquet
    waypoints, but they don't match the icons in your GPS and aren't sent to the GPS. You can't add
    height data either.

    Latest version allows named waypoints to be created and sent to the GPS. Height has been around
    for while.

    Quoted message said:

    A GPS track is a series of track points connected together. Each track point contains coordinate
    data, plus time and date, but no name. An Anquet path may look the same, but it's actually a
    series of waypoints. Paths can be combined into routes. When you send a route to your GPS it sends
    each point as a separate waypoint, thus filling your GPS with loads of waypoints.

    Only if you so choose. You can choose only to download waypoints, all nodes or re-sample at a set
    distance to create intermediate waypoints. I find this actually better for general hillwlking - not
    much use having a big arrow poiting you directly to the next waypoint if theres a corrie / cliff /
    river / loch etc in the way!

    Quoted message said:

    A GPS route is a series of waypoints connected together. In practice you don't need to place many
    of these, you only need a few key waypoints to form a route. Suppose you need to follow a twisty
    path from one junction to another, you only need to place waypoints at the junctions. The next
    waypoint will tell you where you need to go, but you don't have to walk in a straight line toward
    it. With Anquet, it will send dozens of waypoints to the GPS tracing out every little twist and
    turn, which is unnecessary. Most GPS units don't have a very large route capacity, but Anquet
    sends so many waypoints that it will fill up many route slots to mark out just one route.

    Again - you select how frequently you need a waypoint.

    Quoted message said:

    Of course, you can mark your paths differently in Anquet to take account of this, but then you're
    not using Anquet in the way that it was intended. It was intended that you trace out the paths
    accurately onto the map so that it can calculate the correct distance, ascent, Naismith time etc.
    If you only mark path points at waypoint junctions that will come out all wrong. An Anquet path or
    route should equate to a GPS track, not a GPS route, a route should be a different thing
    altogether.

    Quoted message said:

    Confused? Use Ozi for your GPS.

    To be fair to Anquet, I've noticed that they have added more GPS features in the latest version
    and I think you can now convert tracks to paths and vice versa, or something like that, but I'm
    not sure because I've only looked at it briefly. I haven't seen enough improvements to persuade me
    to stop using Ozi. Anquet just wasn't designed for GPS, although I daresay that it's quite usable
    for that if you have no other option, and perhaps it doesn't seem as bad as I'm making it out to
    be if you've never used a program like Ozi.

    I know you have tried to make clear that you were referrring to an earlier version of Anquet, but
    think you need to try the later (and latest) versions. Personally, I'd rather miss out on a few
    esoteric GPS functions for the other ease of use factors (like the fact that all the mapping data is
    there and that features such as 3D are now built in).

    druidh

  3. [email hidden] said...

    Quoted message said:

    Confused? Use Ozi for your GPS.


    But - am I right in thinking that to use Ozi you need to scan in the relevant section of a
    paper OS map?
    --
    Fran If you need my email address please ask.

  4. Hi Fran

    Yes or at least provide some form of image that you can calibrate in Ozi. Depends where you are. In
    America it seems digital maps are cheap and easy to obtain. Not the case here though unless you
    scan, or use Streetmap or something similar.

    Mike Mason

    "Fran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] said...

    Quoted message said:

    Confused? Use Ozi for your GPS.


    But - am I right in thinking that to use Ozi you need to scan in the relevant section of a
    paper OS map?
    --
    Fran If you need my email address please ask.

  5. Mike Mason said:

    "Fran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] said...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Confused? Use Ozi for your GPS.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But - am I right in thinking that to use Ozi you need to scan in the relevant section of a paper
    OS map?

    Quoted message said:

    Yes or at least provide some form of image that you can calibrate in Ozi. Depends where you are. In
    America it seems digital maps are cheap and easy to obtain.

    US maps are cheap because you are only paying for the medium not the image. USGS has it's maps in
    the public domain.

    Quoted message said:

    Not the case here though unless you scan, or use Streetmap or something similar.

    All of which are strictly speaking illegal.
    --
    Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

  6. In a recent message <[email hidden]>, druidh
    <[email hidden]> wrote.

    Quoted message said:

    I think the reasonably priced method of getting OS data for GPS use is called Anquet, Fugawi or
    Memory Map. Of course, there's nothing to stop Ozi getting a similar licensing deal in place, but
    then they'd presumably have to charge more - perhaps in line with these other products. druidh

    I don't agree with that, the reasonable way of getting OS maps in digital form would be for the OS
    to sell them at reasonable prices. IMHO a reasonable price for a digital OS map would be a price
    equivalent to what one would pay for the paper version, less the cost of printing, distribution and
    less the dealer's mark-up. Log on to the OS web site, select the area you want and the scale, pay
    for it and download it. Simple.

    For myself, I will continue to scan paper OS maps to use with GARtrip, this is not 'illegal' it is
    fair and reasonable use. I don't *care* about what it says about reproduction on OS maps, the way I
    use scanned OS maps causes no loss to the OS. What have I stolen? Where is the crime? All a lot of
    silly fuss about nothing.

    I feel better now <g>.

    Regards, Nick.

    --
    Nick Hopton and Anne Hopton Caversham, Reading, England <[email hidden]

  7. Nick Hopton <[email hidden]> wrote

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    I think the reasonably priced method of getting OS data for GPS use is called Anquet, Fugawi or
    Memory Map. Of course, there's nothing to stop Ozi getting a similar licensing deal in place, but
    then they'd presumably have to charge more - perhaps in line with these other products. druidh

    I don't agree with that, the reasonable way of getting OS maps in digital form would be for the OS
    to sell them at reasonable prices. IMHO a reasonable price for a digital OS map would be a price
    equivalent to what one would pay for the paper version, less the cost of printing, distribution and
    less the dealer's mark-up. Log on to the OS web site, select the area you want and the scale, pay
    for it and download it. Simple.

    For myself, I will continue to scan paper OS maps to use with GARtrip, this is not 'illegal' it is
    fair and reasonable use. I don't *care* about what it says about reproduction on OS maps, the way I
    use scanned OS maps causes no loss to the OS. What have I stolen? Where is the crime? All a lot of
    silly fuss about nothing.

    I feel better now <g>.


    So do I. :-) I agree absolutely with you. If I have bought a 1:25000 OS map I will do what I like
    with it so long as I don't make money out of it. I have worn so many out that I should get a free CD
    of Derbyshire and the Yorkshire Dales from them.

    Scanning and printing an A4 area saves the map from getting ruined for studying at home.

    In fact, when it gets soft enough I can wipe my a**e on it if I want like I do with very old
    £20 notes.
    --
    Gordon

  8. Gordon said:

    I have never tried Anquet, and your description has convinced me that I never will, although the
    1:25000 mapping will be hard to resist to plan a route and print a map off with the waypoints
    shown, then send them to the GPS.

    If you can do those basic things then it will save scanning maps into Ozi, but I would still want
    to plot the tracks on the map and examine them on screen.

    You can do that, but not with as much detail available. Of course if you buy the 25k mapping then
    you can cut and paste into Ozi.

    One thing that does bug me is that you can't import Ozi tracks and waypoints into Anquet and vice-
    versa. If someone could write a conversion utility that would be really great. I've got four years
    worth of tracks saved in Ozi format and there's no way that I'm going to upload them one at a time
    into my GPS, swap leads, then download them into Anquet. It would be very nice to look at them on
    the 3D terrain though, and to "walk the route" in 3D.

    Paul
    --
    wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.uk
    wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.uk
    photosig.comuserphotos

  9. druidh said:

    Latest version allows named waypoints to be created and sent to the GPS. Height has been around
    for while.

    Really? Individually named rather than just setting a prefix? That's good.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    When you send a route to your GPS it sends each point as a separate waypoint, thus filling your
    GPS with loads of waypoints.

    Only if you so choose. You can choose only to download waypoints, all nodes or re-sample at a set
    distance to create intermediate waypoints.

    Well that's an improvement too.

    Quoted message said:

    I find this actually better for general hillwlking - not much use having a big arrow poiting you
    directly to the next waypoint if theres a corrie / cliff / river / loch etc in the way!

    Perhaps, but with only 20 waypoints per route it's not very practical to have loads of them in a
    route, and I don't like them filling up my waypoint memory either. Not a problem if you only have
    waypoints for one route loaded, but it can be a problem if you have hundreds of waypoints
    comprehensively covering an area.

    I'm not in the habit of walking in straight lines between waypoints. I know that the best route
    between waypoints is to follow a path, or a ridge, or the twists and turns of a river or contours or
    whatever, so I couldn't care less whether the arrow is pointing in the right direction or not.]

    To me, the compass arrow doesn't mean "walk in this direction", instead it means "this is where the
    next waypoint is in relation to your current position". It does not indicate the best route to get
    there. In 95% of situations I can see the terrain clearly and choose the best route between
    waypoints. Only if I'm walking at night or in thick fog do I need to put in more waypoints than
    usual. I'll do this if I expect bad visibility and need to negotiate obstacles like cliffs or
    whatever. If I get caught out unexpectedly I'll just get the map out to check for obstacles.

    Quoted message said:

    Again - you select how frequently you need a waypoint.

    Useful, but I prefer to select exactly where to put each waypoint.

    Quoted message said:

    I know you have tried to make clear that you were referrring to an earlier version of Anquet, but
    think you need to try the later (and latest) versions.

    Fair enough, but Anquet is on my newer computer and my GPS lead won't fit the ps/2 com ports.

    Quoted message said:

    Personally, I'd rather miss out on a few esoteric GPS functions for the other ease of use factors
    (like the fact that all the mapping data is there and that features such as 3D are now built in).

    Certainly appealing, but which functions are left out? Does Anquet save the time and date on track
    nodes? (I doubt it, since it can't even display them, to my knowledge.) This is important to me.

    Paul
    --
    wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.uk
    wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.uk
    photosig.comuserphotos

  10. "Paul Saunders" <[email hidden]> wrote> Is there a legal method of getting OS maps into
    Ozi? No. So what's the> alternative? If the OS don't offer a legal method, which method do you>
    think people will choose?> > If eating were made illegal, do you think people would stop eating? Of>
    course not. If people really need to do something they're going to do> it, legal or not. If the OS
    don't want people to copy maps for use in> Ozi, then why don't they provide a reasonably priced
    legal method for> doing this?> I think the reasonably priced method of getting OS data for GPS use
    is called Anquet, Fugawi or Memory Map. Of course, there's nothing to stop Ozi getting a similar
    licensing deal in place, but then they'd presumably have to charge more - perhaps in line with these
    other products. druidh

  11. I know, I know

    However my son is doing a civil engineering degree in London. This year one of his options is
    geology which has field trips and mapping work included. I must explore the possibilities with him.

    Mike

    "Phil Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Mike Mason said:

    "Fran" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    [email hidden] said...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > Confused? Use Ozi for your GPS.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    But - am I right in thinking that to use Ozi you need to scan in the relevant section of a
    paper OS map?

    Quoted message said:

    Yes or at least provide some form of image that you can calibrate in Ozi. Depends where you are.
    In America it seems digital maps are cheap and


    easy

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    to obtain.

    US maps are cheap because you are only paying for the medium not the image. USGS has it's maps in
    the public domain.

    Quoted message said:

    Not the case here though unless you scan, or use Streetmap or something similar.

    All of which are strictly speaking illegal.
    --
    Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

  12. Nick Hopton said:

    For myself, I will continue to scan paper OS maps to use with GARtrip, this is not 'illegal' it is
    fair and reasonable use.

    Technically they'd probably disagree, but I agree in principle.

    Quoted message said:

    I don't *care* about what it says about reproduction on OS maps, the way I use scanned OS maps
    causes no loss to the OS. What have I stolen? Where is the crime? All a lot of silly fuss about
    nothing.

    Yes, I've bought the paper maps and I've bought the digital maps by buying Anquet, so why should it
    matter how I use them?

    Paul
    --
    wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.uk
    wildwales.fsnet.co.ukwildwales.fsnet.co.uk
    photosig.comuserphotos

  13. Quoted message said:

    For myself, I will continue to scan paper OS maps to use with GARtrip, this is not 'illegal' it is
    fair and reasonable use. I don't *care* about what it says about reproduction on OS maps, the way I
    use scanned OS maps causes no loss to the OS. What have I stolen? Where is the crime? All a lot of
    silly fuss about nothing.

    OS maps are fragile.. by using scans and keeping a map in the library at home means that they are
    not getting their papier mache replacement money!

    Other than that, what have they lost. They have done OK out of me thats for sure.... Tons of the
    things lying about the house.

    Richard Webb

  14. Curious that ther's been no reply from a MM user? (especially since that the software I was more
    interested in ;-)

    However, I have come to something like a conclusion. From my perspective Anquet on its own does not
    fit my needs at all; Anquet + OziExplorer does but its a kludge (in an ideal world) and a real pita
    getting useable maps into Ozi.

    That leaves MM which I have previously installed a demo version of. Initially, I didn't get my teeth
    into until it had 2 days remaining on its trial period and hence wasn't able to answer my own
    questions, but I've since been able to re-start its 'clock' and looked at it again, this time from
    the perspective of being able to know what I'm looking for, so to speak.

    It certainly seems that MM 2004 has everything that Anquet+Ozi combined bring to the table, plus a
    few other things, so MM is the route I'm going to go.

    Many thanks to everyone who helped me out on this, offered their own opinions, shared their own
    experiences.

    Cheors,

    SteveO

    NE Climbers & walkers chat forum; thenmc.org.ukindex.php

    NMC website: thenmc.org.ukthenmc.org.uk

  15. Steve Orrell said:

    Curious that ther's been no reply from a MM user?


    Message-ID: <[email hidden]

  16. Chris proteus1@gmxDOTnet said:
    Steve Orrell said:

    Curious that ther's been no reply from a MM user?


    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    <quote>

    Quoted message said:

    With the latest MM you can split the track, and delete the bits you don't want.


    </endquote>

    Soz Chris, of course was commenting on the dearth of responses in general terms from MM users as a
    population and not your own contribution.

    SteveO

    NE Climbers & walkers chat forum; thenmc.org.ukindex.php

    NMC website: thenmc.org.ukthenmc.org.uk

  17. Have you tried pocketgpsworld.compocketgpsworld.com ?

    There's a MM forum there.

    Peter.

    <Steve Orrell> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Chris proteus1@gmxDOTnet said:
    Steve Orrell said:

    Curious that ther's been no reply from a MM user?


    Message-ID: <[email hidden]>

    <quote>

    Quoted message said:

    With the latest MM you can split the track, and delete the bits you don't want.


    </endquote>

    Soz Chris, of course was commenting on the dearth of responses in general terms from MM users as a
    population and not your own contribution.

    SteveO

    NE Climbers & walkers chat forum; thenmc.org.ukindex.php

    NMC website: thenmc.org.ukthenmc.org.uk

  18. PJD said:

    Have you tried pocketgpsworld.compocketgpsworld.com ?

    There's a MM forum there.

    Thanks Peter, I wasn't aware of it... until now :-)

    SteveO

    NE Climbers & walkers chat forum; thenmc.org.ukindex.php

    NMC website: thenmc.org.ukthenmc.org.uk

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