Opinions on Computrainer

Yes.

"h2ofun" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Worth the money?

Dave

"h2ofun" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Worth the money?

Dave

Yes

"h2ofun" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Worth the money?

Maybe, if you do use it a lot, have a strong performance focus, and have a long winter.

Has a method of calibration that allows you to compare performances between sessions and riders.
Simulates the course(s) on which you plan to ride. Has a feel similar to actually riding. Is
relatively quiet. Lots of data provided, HR, power, distance, speed, incline, time, etc. Adds to
motivation, esp. pacer, or comparisons w. fellow cyclists. You use your own bike. Bike support could
be improved, so I made my own. I did not have the more recent 3-D model. Has great resale demand,
was easy to sell. Good support from the mfr.

"h2ofun" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Worth the money?

Dave

In general, yes. If you handicapped by long winters or no hills to train on, then it is very
valuable. If you want to quantify and standardized your training, then is has some value (although,
there are other devices that will do the same thing for less money).

I like mine and have found if very valuable for helping maintain bike training through the winter
days. In fact, it's the only way I have been able to to 4 plus hr. indoor training rides without
goin out of my mind. Which means, I find it very valuable for IM training.

IMHO, it's just one more tool to help motivate you to train. You can live without it... but,
training just would be as much fun.

FWIW Joe Moya

Dependes what you are looking for. From a training point of view I would prefer a mechanical tacx
(1450 or cycleforce swing), alle this electronic gimmics dont make a better training, but make it
more difficult to use it for warm ups before timetrial races or during travel.

But if you wanted to buy a playstation anyway - why not. If its the only chance to motivate you to
train on a trainer it might help as well. Trainingwise in my opinion it offers nothing more than a
100 $ Tacx, maybe except if you base alle your training on watt data.

My training is based on heart rate and RPM so I really would have no benefit. And preprogrammed
courses - frankly no need. If I feel bored during training I will watch a DVD, for technique a
simple Tacx can be used for one legged drills etc.

I think that the time to understand all that options and install software, programm interfaces and
chat on the net about some features would be better spend training on a Tacx.

Quoted message said:

"h2ofun" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Worth the money?

Dave

Yes

Is their site the best place to buy one? they want $1379 usd for the 3d version. Are they discounted
at all at expos or anything?

thanks

[email hidden] (jkmsg) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"h2ofun" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Worth the money?

Dave

In general, yes. If you handicapped by long winters or no hills to train on, then it is very
valuable. If you want to quantify and standardized your training, then is has some value
(although, there are other devices that will do the same thing for less money).

I like mine and have found if very valuable for helping maintain bike training through the winter
days. In fact, it's the only way I have been able to to 4 plus hr. indoor training rides without
goin out of my mind. Which means, I find it very valuable for IM training.

IMHO, it's just one more tool to help motivate you to train. You can live without it... but,
training just would be as much fun.

FWIW Joe Moya

(Theodor Seiz) said:

Dependes what you are looking for. From a training point of view I would prefer a mechanical tacx
(1450 or cycleforce swing), alle this electronic gimmics dont make a better training, but make it
more difficult to use it for warm ups before timetrial races or during travel.

But if you wanted to buy a playstation anyway - why not. If its the only chance to motivate you to
train on a trainer it might help as well. Trainingwise in my opinion it offers nothing more than a
100 $ Tacx, maybe except if you base alle your training on watt data.

My training is based on heart rate and RPM so I really would have no benefit. And preprogrammed
courses - frankly no need. If I feel bored during training I will watch a DVD, for technique a
simple Tacx can be used for one legged drills etc.

I think that the time to understand all that options and install software, programm interfaces and
chat on the net about some features would be better spend training on a Tacx.

I thought the Computrainer came with software that measured such things like power
throughout the stroke etc?

~Matt

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"h2ofun" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Worth the money?

Dave

Yes

I did get mine discounted slightly at IM Wisconsin at their booth. I believe the discount was around
$100, although I don't remember that for sure.

Also, if you know anyone else that might want one besides yourself, I believe they do group
discounts for ordering more than one unit.

- chris

In article said:

Is their site the best place to buy one? they want $1379 usd for the 3d version. Are they
discounted at all at expos or anything?

thanks

[email hidden] (jkmsg) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"h2ofun" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Worth the money?

Dave

In general, yes. If you handicapped by long winters or no hills to train on, then it is very
valuable. If you want to quantify and standardized your training, then is has some value
(although, there are other devices that will do the same thing for less money).

I like mine and have found if very valuable for helping maintain bike training through the winter
days. In fact, it's the only way I have been able to to 4 plus hr. indoor training rides without
goin out of my mind. Which means, I find it very valuable for IM training.

IMHO, it's just one more tool to help motivate you to train. You can live without it... but,
training just would be as much fun.

FWIW Joe Moya

Measuring doesnt improve things. To improve you need to do technical drills like singleleg training
etc. which you all can do on a tacx as well. I dont think the computrainer is a bad tool, for me it
would be distractive from whats really necessary.

In article said:

Measuring doesnt improve things. To improve you need to do technical drills like singleleg
training etc. which you all can do on a tacx as well. I dont think the computrainer is a bad tool,
for me it would be distractive from whats really necessary.

I don't think its a distraction at all. On the contrary, when I'm not spinning on my CT, I'm less
aware of poor pedal stroke than when I am on it. While purely measuring doesn't improve things, a CT
does make you aware of flaws in your pedal stroke such that you can improve on them. When I'm
spinning on mine, it helps to have spin scan running on my CT as a reminder to concentrate on my
pedal stroke. It's nice to be able to see that immediate, real time feedback as I start to pedal
more efficiently. It's like instant positive reinforcement.

Of course, whether or not this is worth $1350 to you is a personal matter. I am happy with
mine, though.

- chris

(Theodor Seiz) said:

Measuring doesnt improve things. To improve you need to do technical drills like singleleg training
etc. which you all can do on a tacx as well. I dont think the computrainer is a bad tool, for me it
would be distractive from whats really necessary.

Yes measuring doesn't improve things but knowing if you are doing it correctly or
incorrectly does. Doing isolated leg workouts will do nothing if you are doing them
incorrectly. The feedback from the computrainer would indicate whether you are smoothing out
the stroke or not. What we are doing and what we think we are doing is not always the same.
Video tape yourself swimming a few times to show you that. Practices makes permanant not
perfect. Practicing imperfection makes imperfections perfect and permanant.

~Matt

Or maybe you do not use the tool properly?

"Theodor Seiz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Measuring doesnt improve things. To improve you need to do technical drills like singleleg
training etc. which you all can do on a tacx as well. I dont think the computrainer is a bad tool,
for me it would be distractive from whats really necessary.

Spinscan is way overrated, IMHO. You really need to measure the force on each pedal independently to
do what Racermate claims Spinscan does.

"Chris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

Measuring doesnt improve things. To improve you need to do technical drills like singleleg
training etc. which you all can do on a tacx as well. I dont think the computrainer is a bad
tool, for me it would be distractive from whats really necessary.

I don't think its a distraction at all. On the contrary, when I'm not spinning on my CT, I'm less
aware of poor pedal stroke than when I am on it. While purely measuring doesn't improve things, a
CT does make you aware of flaws in your pedal stroke such that you can improve on them. When I'm
spinning on mine, it helps to have spin scan running on my CT as a reminder to concentrate on my
pedal stroke. It's nice to be able to see that immediate, real time feedback as I start to pedal
more efficiently. It's like instant positive reinforcement.

Of course, whether or not this is worth $1350 to you is a personal matter. I am happy with
mine, though.

- chris

I dont use it at all. I use Tacx. I dont see any reason to upgrade. I think that computrainer is
excellent, but I dont think it offers a lot of added value over a simple tacx (a lot of bells and
whistles though).

Quoted message said:

Or maybe you do not use the tool properly?

"Theodor Seiz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Measuring doesnt improve things. To improve you need to do technical drills like singleleg
training etc. which you all can do on a tacx as well. I dont think the computrainer is a bad
tool, for me it would be distractive from whats really necessary.

Sam said:

Spinscan is way overrated, IMHO. You really need to measure the force on each pedal independently
to do what Racermate claims Spinscan does.

That's an interesting point I hadn't thought of. And does it realy matter? If for whatever
reason you have a "good" stroke, i sthe method of good stroke as important as the stroke
itself. I can however see a scenario where "back" force from one foot is "smoothing" out the
"overforce" of the other foot causing a duplicitous waste of energy in the name of a smooth
stroke. However does that really happen?

~Matt

"MJuric" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sam said:

Spinscan is way overrated, IMHO. You really need to measure the force on each pedal independently
to do what Racermate claims Spinscan does.

That's an interesting point I hadn't thought of. And does it realy matter? If for whatever reason
you have a "good" stroke, i sthe method of good stroke as important as the stroke itself. I can
however see a scenario where "back" force from one foot is "smoothing" out the "overforce" of the
other foot causing a duplicitous waste of energy in the name of a smooth stroke. However does that
really happen?

One user of PowerCranks has reported that is indeed how he used to pedal,
i.e., racking up high SpinScan numbers by fighting himself.

Andy Coggan

Andy Coggan said:

"MJuric" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sam said:

Spinscan is way overrated, IMHO. You really need to measure the force on each pedal
independently to do what Racermate claims Spinscan does.

That's an interesting point I hadn't thought of. And does it realy matter? If for whatever reason
you have a "good" stroke, i sthe method of good stroke as important as the stroke itself. I can
however see a scenario where "back" force from one foot is "smoothing" out the "overforce" of the
other foot causing a duplicitous waste of energy in the name of a smooth stroke. However does
that really happen?

One user of PowerCranks has reported that is indeed how he used to pedal,
i.e., racking up high SpinScan numbers by fighting himself.

Are you saying that is how Sam use to pedal or someone else?

That is interesting and after thinking about it a while longer actually makes alot of sense.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most peopl have the tendancy to mash om the downstroke
and do very little on the upstroke? If this is the case instead of decreaseing the mashing
on downstroke and increasing upstroke force one might gravitate to continued mashing on the
down stroke and counteracting that with backforce on the upstroke. This would create an even
stroke but potential loss of overall power.

Another question, Power Cranks actually measure force from seperate leggs?

~Matt

Quoted message said:

Andy Coggan

<MJuric> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andy Coggan said:

"MJuric" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:19:11 GMT, "Sam" <[email hidden]> wrote:

>Spinscan is way overrated, IMHO. You really need to measure the force

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>each pedal independently to do what Racermate claims Spinscan does.
>

That's an interesting point I hadn't thought of. And does it realy matter? If for whatever
reason you have a "good" stroke, i sthe method of good stroke as important as the stroke
itself. I can however see a scenario where "back" force from one foot is "smoothing" out the
"overforce" of the other foot causing a duplicitous waste of energy in the name of a smooth
stroke. However does that really happen?

One user of PowerCranks has reported that is indeed how he used to pedal,
i.e., racking up high SpinScan numbers by fighting himself.

Are you saying that is how Sam use to pedal or someone else?

Someone else (otherwise I would have said Sam).

Quoted message said:

That is interesting and after thinking about it a while longer actually makes alot of sense.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most peopl have the tendancy to mash om the downstroke and do
very little on the upstroke? If this is the case instead of decreaseing the mashing on downstroke
and increasing upstroke force one might gravitate to continued mashing on the down stroke and
counteracting that with backforce on the upstroke. This would create an even stroke but potential
loss of overall power.

Yup - thus revealing the limitation of only measuring the net output of the two legs combined, which
is what the SpinScan function does.

Quoted message said:

Another question, Power Cranks actually measure force from seperate leggs?

PowerCranks don't measure anything at all - they are touted as a training aid.

Andy Coggan

Andy Coggan said:

<MJuric> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Andy Coggan said:

"MJuric" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
> On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:19:11 GMT, "Sam" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> >Spinscan is way overrated, IMHO. You really need to measure the force

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> >each pedal independently to do what Racermate claims Spinscan does.
> >
>
> That's an interesting point I hadn't thought of. And does it realy matter? If for whatever
> reason you have a "good" stroke, i sthe method of good stroke as important as the stroke
> itself. I can however see a scenario where "back" force from one foot is "smoothing" out the
> "overforce" of the other foot causing a duplicitous waste of energy in the name of a smooth
> stroke. However does that really happen?

One user of PowerCranks has reported that is indeed how he used to pedal,
i.e., racking up high SpinScan numbers by fighting himself.

Are you saying that is how Sam use to pedal or someone else?

Someone else (otherwise I would have said Sam).

Quoted message said:

That is interesting and after thinking about it a while longer actually makes alot of sense.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most peopl have the tendancy to mash om the downstroke and do
very little on the upstroke? If this is the case instead of decreaseing the mashing on downstroke
and increasing upstroke force one might gravitate to continued mashing on the down stroke and
counteracting that with backforce on the upstroke. This would create an even stroke but potential
loss of overall power.

Yup - thus revealing the limitation of only measuring the net output of the two legs combined,
which is what the SpinScan function does.

Quoted message said:

Another question, Power Cranks actually measure force from seperate leggs?

PowerCranks don't measure anything at all - they are touted as a training aid.

Sorry was a bit confused. Went back and reread what you posted. Strange how you can get one
thing out of something one time you read it and something quite different the next.

Quoted message said:

Andy Coggan