oops

"Adam Lea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

After having a flick through the highway code I have just realised that my
bike is not road legal. Apparently bikes must have a red rear reflector
fitted (front ones are optional). Odd as it has spoke and pedal

reflectors,

Quoted message said:

but not the front or rear ones. I will now go down to the local bike shop
and buy some.

*makes note to read highway code more closely in future*

Adam

The highway code is not the law, only the guidance based on the law. No
lightweight racing cycle ever comes supplied with reflectors fitted, they
would be taken off if they did. I think it's best to apply the reflectors to
one's body, ie sam brown belt or ankle cuffs. This make more reflective area
or makes the relection move, which is more noticable.

Dave Lloyd
So open minded, my brains dribbled out.

"david lloyd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Adam Lea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

After having a flick through the highway code I have just realised that
my
bike is not road legal. Apparently bikes must have a red rear reflector
fitted (front ones are optional). Odd as it has spoke and pedal

reflectors,

Quoted message said:

but not the front or rear ones. I will now go down to the local bike shop
and buy some.

*makes note to read highway code more closely in future*

Adam

The highway code is not the law, only the guidance based on the law. No
lightweight racing cycle ever comes supplied with reflectors fitted, they
would be taken off if they did. I think it's best to apply the reflectors
to
one's body, ie sam brown belt or ankle cuffs. This make more reflective
area
or makes the relection move, which is more noticable.

Dave Lloyd
So open minded, my brains dribbled out.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/03.htm

46: At night your cycle MUST have front and rear lights lit. It MUST also be
fitted with a red rear reflector ...

Law RVLR regs 18 & 24

david lloyd said:

"Adam Lea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

After having a flick through the highway code I have just realised that my
bike is not road legal. Apparently bikes must have a red rear reflector

The highway code is not the law, only the guidance based on the law.

Not quite. It is not only guidance, it also contains statements
regarding the law.

In particular, it is a legal requirement to have a red rear reflector.

Quoted message said:

would be taken off if they did. I think it's best to apply the reflectors to
one's body, ie sam brown belt or ankle cuffs. This make more reflective area
or makes the relection move, which is more noticable.

.... but does not comply with the law. You may think it better to do
that than comply with the law, but many others consider it prudent to
ride a road-legal bike when on the road.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

In article <[email hidden]>

david lloyd said:

"Adam Lea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

After having a flick through the highway code I have just realised that my
bike is not road legal. Apparently bikes must have a red rear reflector
fitted (front ones are optional). Odd as it has spoke and pedal

reflectors,

Quoted message said:

but not the front or rear ones. I will now go down to the local bike shop
and buy some.

*makes note to read highway code more closely in future*

Adam

The highway code is not the law, only the guidance based on the law. No
lightweight racing cycle ever comes supplied with reflectors fitted, they
would be taken off if they did.

Every complete pedal cycle supplied in the UK must have front, rear,
pedal and spoke reflectors fitted. Every pedal cycle used on the road
at night must have a rear reflector, front and rear light (and pedal
reflectors if manufactured after 1st October 1985). These lights and
reflectors must conform to the relevant part of the British Standard
BS6102. Additional lights and reflectors do not need to conform,
although there are additional constraints such as showing a red light
only to the rear, white only to the front, no flashing lights fixed to
the bike (although you can attach them to your clothing - or has that
been changed recently?) It used to be that no LED lights were
technically compliant with the standards depite adequate performance,
but that seems to have been rectified.

Quoted message said:

I think it's best to apply the reflectors to
one's body, ie sam brown belt or ankle cuffs. This make more reflective area
or makes the relection move, which is more noticable.

Hence the requirement for pedal reflectors.

david lloyd said:

I think it's best to apply the reflectors
to one's body, ie sam brown belt or ankle cuffs. This make more reflective
area or makes the relection move, which is more noticable.

But moving reflectors are illegal unless attached to pedals or wheels.
See: <http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1989/Uksi_19891796_en_3.htm#(Tii)i2movementlampreflector>

Movement of lamps and reflectors
12.--(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall use, or
cause or permit to be used, on a road any vehicle to which, or to any
load or equipment of which, there is fitted a lamp, reflector or marking
which is capable of being moved by swivelling, deflecting or otherwise
while the vehicle is in motion.

(2) Paragraph (1) does not apply in respect of-

[....]

(h) an amber pedal retro reflector; or

(i) retro reflective material or a retro reflector of any
colour which is fitted so as to reflect light primarily to one
or both sides of the vehicle and is attached to or incorporated
in any wheel or tyre of-

(i) a pedal cycle and any sidecar attached to;

[....]

This does of course make the Highway Code's advice to wear reflecting
ankle bands illegal :-/
<http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/03.htm>

Mike

In article <pan.2006.06.03.13.59.49.263900
@firstnamelastname.com.invalid>
Mike Causer <[email hidden]> wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

This does of course make the Highway Code's advice to wear reflecting
ankle bands illegal :-/

Only if the vehicle operator is considered to be part of the load.

Rob Morley twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

Every complete pedal cycle supplied in the UK must have front, rear,
pedal and spoke reflectors fitted.

Hmm ... technically my new recumbent was an illegal sale then, as it
doesn't have spoke reflectors (though the Marathon Slicks have reflective
sidewalls)? Of course, the pedal reflectors where kind of useless given
their position and orientation ... but I've replaced them with SPDs
anyway.

Quoted message said:

These lights and reflectors must conform to the relevant part of the
British Standard BS6102.

Alternatively, IIRC, said lights and reflectors must conform to the
relevant legislation in $OTHER_EU_COUNTRY?
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

In article <[email hidden]>

Alistair Gunn said:

Rob Morley twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

Every complete pedal cycle supplied in the UK must have front, rear,
pedal and spoke reflectors fitted.

Hmm ... technically my new recumbent was an illegal sale then, as it
doesn't have spoke reflectors (though the Marathon Slicks have reflective
sidewalls)?

ISTR some of the European standards allow reflective sidewalls instead
of spoke reflectors. They are certainly less likely to be thrown away
at the first opportunity (why would anyone want to unbalance their
wheels and increase their rotating mass?)

Quoted message said:

Of course, the pedal reflectors where kind of useless given
their position and orientation ... but I've replaced them with SPDs
anyway.

I've never really bothered with pedal reflectors (until recently I could
trace the lineage of all my bikes to one I bought in 1979) although they
are probably one of the better ways of alerting car drivers to the
presence of a bike on a dark road, as nothing else moves like that.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

These lights and reflectors must conform to the relevant part of the
British Standard BS6102.

Alternatively, IIRC, said lights and reflectors must conform to the
relevant legislation in $OTHER_EU_COUNTRY?

True - I waas trying to keep the wordage down.

Mike Causer said:

But moving reflectors are illegal unless attached to pedals or wheels.

Which is a shame as reflective tape is quite effective on cranks.

~PB

david lloyd said:

No lightweight racing cycle ever comes supplied with reflectors
fitted,

Most of them do come with reflectors, but ones of a type that is easily
removed.....

Quoted message said:

they would be taken off if they did.

~PB

Rob Morley said:

Every complete pedal cycle supplied in the UK must have front, rear,
pedal and spoke reflectors fitted. Every pedal cycle used on the road
at night must have a rear reflector, front and rear light (and pedal
reflectors if manufactured after 1st October 1985). These lights and
reflectors must conform to the relevant part of the British Standard
BS6102. Additional lights and reflectors do not need to conform,
although there are additional constraints such as showing a red light
only to the rear, white only to the front, no flashing lights fixed to
the bike (although you can attach them to your clothing - or has that
been changed recently?) It used to be that no LED lights were
technically compliant with the standards depite adequate performance,
but that seems to have been rectified.

The curious thing about this is that although when I bought my bike it
had pedal reflectors, I immediately had some SPD's fitted (that have no
reflectors) before I took it away from the LBS.

--
Don Whybrow

Sequi Bonum Non Time

Some people have one of those days. I have one of those lives.

Don Whybrow said:

Rob Morley said:

Every complete pedal cycle supplied in the UK must have front, rear,
pedal and spoke reflectors fitted. Every pedal cycle used on the road
at night must have a rear reflector, front and rear light (and pedal
reflectors if manufactured after 1st October 1985). These lights and
reflectors must conform to the relevant part of the British Standard
BS6102. Additional lights and reflectors do not need to conform,
although there are additional constraints such as showing a red light
only to the rear, white only to the front, no flashing lights fixed to
the bike (although you can attach them to your clothing - or has that
been changed recently?) It used to be that no LED lights were
technically compliant with the standards depite adequate performance,
but that seems to have been rectified.

The curious thing about this is that although when I bought my bike it
had pedal reflectors, I immediately had some SPD's fitted (that have no
reflectors) before I took it away from the LBS.

Technically a bike shop shouldn't let a bike out of the door without
all the various reflectors and I think even a bell now.

In practice it mostly gets ignored for high-end bikes, although my LBS
has the great amusement fitting them to all their bikes in the
showroom. I think they were having a bit of a laugh when I found
reflectors and bell in the box of my S-Works frame.
--
http://www.addict-racing.com

Quoted message said:

Rob Morley said:

Every complete pedal cycle supplied in the UK must have front, rear,
pedal and spoke reflectors fitted. Every pedal cycle used on the road
at night must have a rear reflector, front and rear light (and pedal
reflectors if manufactured after 1st October 1985). These lights and
reflectors must conform to the relevant part of the British Standard
BS6102. Additional lights and reflectors do not need to conform,
although there are additional constraints such as showing a red light
only to the rear, white only to the front, no flashing lights fixed to
the bike (although you can attach them to your clothing - or has that
been changed recently?) It used to be that no LED lights were
technically compliant with the standards depite adequate performance,
but that seems to have been rectified.

Yes, the law has changed. Flashing LED lights are now legal as main lights,
as they have been proven to be more visible. Surely, we already knew this
was the case - it was the reason car indicators were changed to flashing
many years back.

Common sense would dictate that you stick with a bright, static front light
for times between dusk and dawn. You will be visible with a flasher, but
they are no good for detecting hazards.

--
Dave Lloyd
So open minded, my brains dribbled out.

Quoted message said:

Technically a bike shop shouldn't let a bike out of the door without
all the various reflectors and I think even a bell now.

What is the point of a bell? They can't be heard over the sound system that
the paisley baseball cap wearing dweebs install in their pimped rides. Nor
do bells convey with any accuracy what a total f%&!#g a£*e h*!e they are.

No - give me an air horn any day, they work well with pedestrians. If they
don't shift sideways, the vertical displacement they attain should be
enough. (only kidding).

--
Dave Lloyd
So open minded, my brains dribbled out.

On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 07:05:24 GMT someone who may be "david lloyd"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

What is the point of a bell?

The pedestrian lobby wanted them, especially the blind pedestrian
lobby. We know how much Tony likes largely pointless gestures.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 07:05:24 GMT someone who may be "david lloyd"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

What is the point of a bell?

The pedestrian lobby wanted them, especially the blind pedestrian
lobby. We know how much Tony likes largely pointless gestures.

I know - with the increase in the likelyhood that electric and fuel cell
vehicles, and the fact that they lack a certain level of engine noise, we
should campaing to have bells attached to at least one wheel, making them
tinkle as the drive along. That way the drivers will not be able to take
anyone by surprise.

--
Dave Lloyd
So open minded, my brains dribbled out.

Quoted message said:

Common sense would dictate that you stick with a bright, static front
light for times between dusk and dawn. You will be visible with a
flasher, but they are no good for detecting hazards.

Two lights on the front; one flashing, the other steady. Flasher grabs
attention, the steady makes it easier for others to judge your position and
speed.

in message <[email hidden]>, Ben

(') said:

Don Whybrow said:

Rob Morley said:

Every complete pedal cycle supplied in the UK must have front, rear,
pedal and spoke reflectors fitted. Every pedal cycle used on the
road at night must have a rear reflector, front and rear light (and
pedal
reflectors if manufactured after 1st October 1985). These lights and
reflectors must conform to the relevant part of the British Standard
BS6102. Additional lights and reflectors do not need to conform,
although there are additional constraints such as showing a red light
only to the rear, white only to the front, no flashing lights fixed
to the bike (although you can attach them to your clothing - or has
that
been changed recently?) It used to be that no LED lights were
technically compliant with the standards depite adequate performance,
but that seems to have been rectified.

The curious thing about this is that although when I bought my bike it
had pedal reflectors, I immediately had some SPD's fitted (that have no
reflectors) before I took it away from the LBS.

Technically a bike shop shouldn't let a bike out of the door without
all the various reflectors and I think even a bell now.

In practice it mostly gets ignored for high-end bikes, although my LBS
has the great amusement fitting them to all their bikes in the
showroom. I think they were having a bit of a laugh when I found
reflectors and bell in the box of my S-Works frame.

I have a bell on my mountain bike and on my time trial bike. They weigh
almost nothing and are useful. I don't meet the legal requirements with
regard to reflectors on any of my bikes, however.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

There are no messages. The above is just a random stream of
bytes. Any opinion or meaning you find in it is your own creation.

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Ben

(') said:

On Sat, 03 Jun 2006 20:56:01 +0100, Don Whybrow
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The curious thing about this is that although when I bought my bike it
had pedal reflectors, I immediately had some SPD's fitted (that have no
reflectors) before I took it away from the LBS.

Technically a bike shop shouldn't let a bike out of the door without
all the various reflectors and I think even a bell now.

In practice it mostly gets ignored for high-end bikes, although my LBS
has the great amusement fitting them to all their bikes in the
showroom. I think they were having a bit of a laugh when I found
reflectors and bell in the box of my S-Works frame.

I have a bell on my mountain bike and on my time trial bike. They weigh
almost nothing and are useful. I don't meet the legal requirements with
regard to reflectors on any of my bikes, however.

No reflectors or bell on the S-Works. No reflectors because I rarely
ride it on the road and no bell because I'd have a job physically
fitting one on the bars and it's just sartorially wrong to have a bell
on a £4000 bike.

The hack bike does have rear reflectors but it also has Lumicycle
lights to the front and 4 Leds to the rear as it's my evening/winter
training bike.
--
http://www.addict-racing.com