Oops!

Clive George said:

"Neil Williams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Clive George said:

Er - that wouldn't help in the situation where a bus starts overtaking a
cyclist then cuts into their stop. It's happened to me...

True. Another "training" issue.

training of the bus drivers, presumably?

That's the one.

That said, it is also worthy of consideration whether a bus lane (not
that this is necessarily one, of course!) is suitable for cycling in,
per-se. I'd argue that it probably isn't, unless it's wide enough for
a bus to overtake a cyclist without moving over to the other lane
(which is probably full of stationary cars, else there's no need for a
bus lane).

I'm not asking for more cycling "farcilities", but a bus lane,
especially a narrow one, is not a place I feel comfortable on a bike.
I'd rather be in with the cars.

Neil

Neil Williams ([email hidden]) gurgled happily, sounding much like
they were saying :

Quoted message said:

That said, it is also worthy of consideration whether a bus lane (not
that this is necessarily one, of course!) is suitable for cycling in,
per-se. I'd argue that it probably isn't, unless it's wide enough for
a bus to overtake a cyclist without moving over to the other lane
(which is probably full of stationary cars, else there's no need for a
bus lane).

I'd question what sort of speed you feel is appropriate for a bus to be
passing stationary vehicles at?

Given that your average cyclist can probably hold somewhere around 15mph,
and a daily commuter probably hold more than that, I'd suggest that a
cyclist would be unlikely to be holding a bus up, unless that bus driver is
insufficiently prepared for some blind pillock on foot to either try to
cross the road through the stationary traffic, or for some blind pillock in
a car to decide they're [censored] with being stationary and they want to
cut into the bus lane.

Or, indeed, for the bus to need to avoid a pothole or other obstacle in the
bus lane.

Bear in mind that cyclists don't need to stop regularly for passengers,
either.

Ian Jelf <[email hidden]> wrote:
|
| I'm only an occasional cyclist (Brompton owner) who is usually
| infuriated with cyclist who get the rest of us a bad name and motorists
| who don't regard (properly behanved0 cyclists as "traffic".

The core of those cyclists are/were couriers responding to their
company's internal competition strategy. Has anyone ever seen a meeja
investigation of what these companies get up to to get the max from
their riders?

| Well, I developed an interesting angle on this yesterday when - as a
| pedestrian in Piccadilly - I managed to get knocked down by a cyclist.
| With a number of other people I was crossing a side street at a green
| pelican crossing on (pedestrian) green. Motor traffic had been stopped
| for some time.
|
| A cyclist apparently came past all the queuing traffic and simply
| ploughed through the red light while the crowd were crossing and
| happened to hit me. I'm not hurt (I managed to get straight up and I
| was surprised at just how many passers by stopped to help) but after
| yelling "[censored]", presumably at me, she just cycled off. This wasn't
| some speeding child or youth but an older woman with helmet and yellow
| jacket

Sounds like a librarian who's gone on one too many assertiveness
courses...

--
Patrick Herring, http://www.anweald.co.uk/ph

Adrian said:

I'd question what sort of speed you feel is appropriate for a bus to be
passing stationary vehicles at?

What's appropriate and what happens in practice are different matters.
I'd say the figure you are looking at is up to (or maybe over) 30mph.
Reasonable or not, it is what happens, and it results in buses
intimidating cyclists much more than cars do.

Quoted message said:

Bear in mind that cyclists don't need to stop regularly for passengers,
either.

This is one good reason why buses and cyclists (as distinct from cars,
lorries etc and cyclists) don't fit together too well. It results in
continuous overtaking from both parties.

There's an interesting alternative in Hamburg, where (on an ex-tram
route) the bus lanes run up the middle of the road, thus interfering
with no other traffic directly. The buses are boarded from platforms
reached via pedestrian crossings at intersections (which, of course,
exist anyway), where the stops also make best use of red traffic light
time for boarding and alighting from buses. It works, and I expect
there are places in London where it could work, too.

Neil

Steve M said:

Isn't there a £30 fine or a "training course" if caught doing this now?

ISTR that one of the cycling institutes includes third-party cyclist
insurance in their membership.

'Course, in our increasingly litigious society I'd like to see this
being mandatory as with other road users, but that's just me (speaking
both as sometime cyclist and pedestrian).

jx

--
Joel Rowbottom, Chief Bespectacled Village Idiot @ Fotopic.Net
18M+ photos :: 215+ countries :: Free gallery at http://fotopic.net
Thursday 16th Feb is the LAST DAY to get FotopicPlus for £5 - get
in there quick! See http://fotopic.net/about/birthday.php for more.

In message <[email hidden]>, M-gineering
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

congokid said:

From my experience as a cyclist in London I know that very few
cyclists stop for pedestrian crossings or red lights (apart from when
the passing traffic is too heavy to weave through, or they've spotted
a policeman). Often they barrel through at high speed and any
collision with me would have serious consequences

Bring back umbrella's which, if swung in the appropriate manner, bring
remarkable results 😉

I'm occasionally tempted, but know it would end up with me in court for
assault.

--
congokid
Good restaurants in London? Read my tips...
http://congokid.com

Neil Williams said:

There's an interesting alternative in Hamburg, where (on an ex-tram
route) the bus lanes run up the middle of the road, thus interfering
with no other traffic directly. The buses are boarded from platforms
reached via pedestrian crossings at intersections (which, of course,
exist anyway), where the stops also make best use of red traffic light
time for boarding and alighting from buses. It works, and I expect
there are places in London where it could work, too.

Far too sensible to catch on here. Sheffield's trams have a few tram
stops in the middle of a two-lane-each-way dual carriageway; the pelican
crossings surrounding them manage to be either completely independent
of, or actually anti-synchronised, with a tram's arrival, so you get
swarms of pedestrians trying to dodge 40 mph+ vehicular traffic to get
to the imminently departing tram.

R.

Ian Jelf said:

some speeding child or youth but an older woman with helmet and yellow
jacket

You sure it wasn't Adam Hart-Davis? ;-)

--
Nathan Whitington <><

Quoted message said:

Ian Jelf said:

some speeding child or youth but an older woman with helmet and
yellow jacket

You sure it wasn't Adam Hart-Davis? ;-)

I think you'd hear him coming! ;-)

In uk.rec.cycling Adrian twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

Given that your average cyclist can probably hold somewhere around 15mph,
and a daily commuter probably hold more than that, I'd suggest that a
cyclist would be unlikely to be holding a bus up,

Depending on local conditions (eg: frequency of the buses, distances
between stops), the best approach might be to wait in traffic until the
bus passes you and hten pull into the bus lane behind it ... ?
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

Quoted message said:

Depending on local conditions (eg: frequency of the buses, distances
between stops), the best approach might be to wait in traffic until
the bus passes you and hten pull into the bus lane behind it ... ?

Correct. Never pass up the opportunity to draft a nice big bus.

Mark Thompson
(pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com) gurgled
happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Depending on local conditions (eg: frequency of the buses, distances
between stops), the best approach might be to wait in traffic until
the bus passes you and hten pull into the bus lane behind it ... ?

Quoted message said:

Correct. Never pass up the opportunity to draft a nice big bus.

But you can't hold onto the rail on the platform any more...

Quoted message said:

Mark Thompson gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying
<snippity>

Do you know something about me and myself that no one else does?

Mark Thompson
(pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com) gurgled
happily, sounding much like they were saying :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mark Thompson gurgled happily, sounding much like they were saying
<snippity>

Quoted message said:

Do you know something about me and myself that no one else does?

<taps side of nose knowingly>

<peers closer at monitor>

Ewww. PLEASE don't do that. It's disgusting.

On 15 Feb 2006 07:45:49 -0800, "Neil Williams" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On a similar note, I recall on the recent documentary about a London
bus depot on TV (I forget the name) that bus drivers in this country
are actually trained to pull in 6-8 inches from the kerb, and not right
up to it. Does anyone know why? I always put this down to poor or
lazy driving before now, as in Germany the convention is to touch the
kerb with the wheels, thus taking best advantage of the low-floor
boarding step.

If you have glider doors, opening outwards, they are liable to foul
the kerb. Our Alero, if it is kneeling, has the bottome edges of the
doors below the normal kerb level.
--
Terry Harper
Website Coordinator, The Omnibus Society
http://www.omnibussoc.org

Terry Harper said:

If you have glider doors, opening outwards, they are liable to foul
the kerb. Our Alero, if it is kneeling, has the bottome edges of the
doors below the normal kerb level.

Hadn't thought of that, thanks. Still doesn't explain why you'd do it
for inward-opening doors, but I guess if you always do the same thing
you avoid mistakes being made and doors being knocked off as a result.

Neil

In article <[email hidden]>, M-gineering

() said:

Bring back umbrella's which, if swung in the appropriate manner, bring
remarkable results 😉

They are also one of the few good reasons for wearing a MartleHat, as
the a GBFO golf umbrella sported by a ped close to the edge of the
pavement can have painful quincequonces otherwise..

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger
Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger Badger

In message <[email hidden]>, d
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Having a bemused cyclist staring at you with a look of complete
confusion mixed with rage, simply because you got off a bus at a bus
stop, is quite entertaining.

This is were I would stand between the bus and biker and ask if I can
help?
--
Clive

Adrian said:

Bear in mind that cyclists don't need to stop regularly for passengers,
either.

Or, indeed, red lights. ;-)

Alistair Gunn said:

Does the "failure to stop at the scene of an accident" offence only apply
to motor vehicles, or can cyclists[1] be done for it as well?

Yep, they can be done too, providing there was damage/injury caused.

Quoted message said:

[1] and horse riders too come to think of it?

Yep.

Tra

Meh!