One more pound to go.

Wonderful effort, JJ.

And a very realistic portrayal, IMO, of what this WOE really is. It's not
always easy, but it's better than the alternative.

Daria
166/under 145/under 145
sugar-free since 2/1/04
low-carb since 2/17/04

JJ wrote:
|| Down to 176, one more pound to go to my final weight loss
|| goal. I won't be adjusting my goal down again as this
|| weight is going to be fine.
||
|| One more pound will make it an even 100 pounds and September
|| 1, 2004 will mark my 1 year anniversary. Can I lose that
|| last pound in 3 more weeks? I hope so, if for no other
|| reason than the psychological victory. I expect that I will
|| make it. (I've actually set a target to make it by my
|| birthday on 8/17...we'll see.)
||

So, if you don't get this 1 pound you're saying that you won't have the
psychological victory? Surely you jest?

|| Whether I do or not I have already been on this weight loss
|| program 9 months longer than any weight loss effort I have
|| ever attempted in the past. One of my most often stated
|| goals has been not just losing the weight but keeping it off
|| so the 1 year milestone is going to be more important to me
|| than what I actually weigh at the end of the month. By
|| every objective measure my experience is that this WOE
|| eating (and being very honest with myself about it in terms
|| of sticking with it) for sustained weight loss has been more
|| successful than I had ever hoped.
||
|| Do I still have fat to lose? Yes, a bit, but I'm going to
|| let exercise take care of the rest of it. I will continue
|| to work on adding back a bit of muscle and strength so I
|| expect lots of hours in the gym are still in my future.

So what fat do you have to lose? When will you know it is time to stop?

||
|| For the record, and before anyone asks: No, I will not be
|| going back to my old way of eating after 9/1, or I reach my
|| goal weight, as it just feels too good to be thin again. I
|| can't describe how good it feels. I had truly forgotten how
|| good it feels.

What will you do, exactly?

||
|| Has this been easy? Yes, and no.
||
|| Yes because this WOE eating, for me at least, allowed me to
|| overcome the continual hunger I always felt on a
|| low-fat/low-calorie diet. It is interesting how eating a
|| low-carb/low-calorie diet made this doable. Remember, I
|| have counted calories the whole way in addition to counting
|| carbs...I ate at a 1400 calorie/day level for quite few
|| months with no real hunger issues at all.
||
|| That stated, in a different context the reality is that, no,
|| it has not been easy. All the things in my makeup which
|| contributed to my becoming fat to begin with are still there
|| and I still crave on occasion many of the foods I ate for so
|| long which contributed to my being obese (how many times
|| have I mentioned that I hate that word, obese?) I don't
|| expect to ever add refined sugar back to my diet. I know
|| that I cannot, but this hasn't lessened my desire for it.
|| That I haven't succumbed to this desire in almost a year is
|| remarkable to me, but it hasn't always been easy. Because
|| of where I am in terms of maintenance and maintenance level
|| carbs I am able to add back limited quantities of previously
|| denied foods (I will now have on occasion 1/2 cup of brown
|| rice or an occasional slice of bread for example..but always
|| taken into account in my carb limits) so I don't really have
|| to deny myself much. But, gone are the days of milkshakes
|| and heaping plates of pasta.
||
|| Again, and as always, many thanks to all of you as you have
|| truly contributed to my being successful at this. And,
|| though she doesn't participate in this newsgroup directly,
|| you have also contributed much to my wife's success as well.
|| She too will likely reach her final goal weight by the end
|| of this month, which will end up at about 70 pounds lost.
|| For this we both share our thanks. (I just realized that
|| between the two of us we have lost nearly as much as I now
|| weigh. That's kind of frightening.)

That's really wonderful, JJ. I hope to meet you both in Atlanta later this
year. Come to think of it, that time is approaching....i'm hoping for Octob
er/November...

||
|| I think I've said this at least once before, but I will be
|| posting updated pictures when I get to 175. Perhaps I can
|| get my wife to let me post hers as well. We'll see.
||
|| Later.
||
|| --
|| JJ.
|| 275/176/175 - as of August 4, 2004
|| Atkins since Sep 1, 2003
|| http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jjsmythe/my_photos
|| 1, 2, 3...97, 98, 99...almost there

Roger Zoul said:

JJ said:

Quoted message said:

Down to 176, one more pound to go to my final weight
loss
goal. I won't be adjusting my goal down again as this
weight is going to be fine.

One more pound will make it an even 100 pounds and
September
1, 2004 will mark my 1 year anniversary. Can I lose
that
last pound in 3 more weeks? I hope so, if for no other
reason than the psychological victory. I expect that I
will
make it. (I've actually set a target to make it by my
birthday on 8/17...we'll see.)

So, if you don't get this 1 pound you're saying that you
won't have
the psychological victory? Surely you jest?

The psychological victory I was referring to was not
reaching a number goal by a date, but just reaching the goal
itself so that I focus exclusively on the next big thing.
Was it not clear in the subsequent paragraph that, despite
this particular goal, my bigger and long term focus is on
maintenance?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Whether I do or not I have already been on this weight
loss
program 9 months longer than any weight loss effort I
have
ever attempted in the past. One of my most often stated
goals has been not just losing the weight but keeping it
off
so the 1 year milestone is going to be more important to
me
than what I actually weigh at the end of the month. By
every objective measure my experience is that this WOE
eating (and being very honest with myself about it in
terms
of sticking with it) for sustained weight loss has been
more
successful than I had ever hoped.

Do I still have fat to lose? Yes, a bit, but I'm going
to
let exercise take care of the rest of it. I will
continue
to work on adding back a bit of muscle and strength so I
expect lots of hours in the gym are still in my future.

So what fat do you have to lose? When will you know it is
time to
stop?

I've tried to make it clear that, so far as focus on weight
loss goes, I am done at 175. As far as remaining fat, I
still have a bit of pudginess around the waist and my chest.
Not too bad, but it is still there. I'm not that worried
about it and am willing to let time and exercise take its
course, which I apparently did not articulate well. At this
point I will keep on doing what has been working, we'll see
where my body finds its equilibrium.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

For the record, and before anyone asks: No, I will not
be
going back to my old way of eating after 9/1, or I reach
my
goal weight, as it just feels too good to be thin again.
I
can't describe how good it feels. I had truly forgotten
how
good it feels.

What will you do, exactly?

Much as I stated above, I will keep on doing what has been
working over the last couple months of maintenance. For me
that now means carb levels of about 100g/day on average,
with calorie levels of 2000-2200/day. This works and
appears to be sustainable over the long haul, using the last
couple months as my guide. I suspect that I will have to
continue to adjust these levels slightly up or down
depending upon activity level. Ultimately the tightness of
my pants at my waistline will be my guide. The specific
message I was trying to convey here was that, once this goal
is reached, I won't be reverting to my old ways.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Has this been easy? Yes, and no.

Yes because this WOE eating, for me at least, allowed me
to
overcome the continual hunger I always felt on a
low-fat/low-calorie diet. It is interesting how eating
a
low-carb/low-calorie diet made this doable. Remember, I
have counted calories the whole way in addition to
counting
carbs...I ate at a 1400 calorie/day level for quite few
months with no real hunger issues at all.

That stated, in a different context the reality is that,
no,
it has not been easy. All the things in my makeup which
contributed to my becoming fat to begin with are still
there
and I still crave on occasion many of the foods I ate
for so
long which contributed to my being obese (how many times
have I mentioned that I hate that word, obese?) I don't
expect to ever add refined sugar back to my diet. I
know
that I cannot, but this hasn't lessened my desire for
it.
That I haven't succumbed to this desire in almost a year
is
remarkable to me, but it hasn't always been easy.
Because
of where I am in terms of maintenance and maintenance
level
carbs I am able to add back limited quantities of
previously
denied foods (I will now have on occasion 1/2 cup of
brown
rice or an occasional slice of bread for example..but
always
taken into account in my carb limits) so I don't really
have
to deny myself much. But, gone are the days of
milkshakes
and heaping plates of pasta.

Again, and as always, many thanks to all of you as you
have
truly contributed to my being successful at this. And,
though she doesn't participate in this newsgroup
directly,
you have also contributed much to my wife's success as
well.
She too will likely reach her final goal weight by the
end
of this month, which will end up at about 70 pounds
lost.
For this we both share our thanks. (I just realized
that
between the two of us we have lost nearly as much as I
now
weigh. That's kind of frightening.)

That's really wonderful, JJ. I hope to meet you both in
Atlanta
later this year. Come to think of it, that time is
approaching....i'm hoping for Octob er/November...

Carol has pinged you a couple times about a date. I don't
currently have any travel plans for October or the first
half of November so I should be around most anytime you and
Carol want to coordinate a trip.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think I've said this at least once before, but I will
be
posting updated pictures when I get to 175. Perhaps I
can
get my wife to let me post hers as well. We'll see.

Later.

--
JJ.
275/176/175 - as of August 4, 2004
Atkins since Sep 1, 2003
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jjsmythe/my_photos
1, 2, 3...97, 98, 99...almost there

--
JJ.
275/176/175 - as of August 4, 2004
Atkins since Sep 1, 2003
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jjsmythe/my_photos
1, 2, 3...97, 98, 99...almost there

JJ wrote:
|| Roger Zoul wrote:
||| JJ wrote:
||||| Down to 176, one more pound to go to my final weight
||||| loss
||||| goal. I won't be adjusting my goal down again as this
||||| weight is going to be fine.
|||||
||||| One more pound will make it an even 100 pounds and
||||| September
||||| 1, 2004 will mark my 1 year anniversary. Can I lose
||||| that
||||| last pound in 3 more weeks? I hope so, if for no other
||||| reason than the psychological victory. I expect that I
||||| will
||||| make it. (I've actually set a target to make it by my
||||| birthday on 8/17...we'll see.)
|||||
|||
||| So, if you don't get this 1 pound you're saying that you
||| won't have
||| the psychological victory? Surely you jest?
|||
||
||
|| The psychological victory I was referring to was not
|| reaching a number goal by a date, but just reaching the goal
|| itself so that I focus exclusively on the next big thing.
|| Was it not clear in the subsequent paragraph that, despite
|| this particular goal, my bigger and long term focus is on
|| maintenance?

It might be clear to others, but 1 out of 176 seems like such a small
relative amount that this particular goal seems somewhat trivial and not
worthy of a psychological victory (to me, that is). In my mind, you're
already achieved that. It would seem to me that maintenance is the ONLY
thing to focus on. Also, that 1 lb is really imaginary to some degree,
because weight will tend to move up and down slightly over time, and you'll
not be able to control it. Remember, you're talking less than 0.6 %
bodyweight here. The focus on scale weight tends to blind dieters to the
real issues, imo.

||
|||
||||| Whether I do or not I have already been on this weight
||||| loss
||||| program 9 months longer than any weight loss effort I
||||| have
||||| ever attempted in the past. One of my most often stated
||||| goals has been not just losing the weight but keeping it
||||| off
||||| so the 1 year milestone is going to be more important to
||||| me
||||| than what I actually weigh at the end of the month. By
||||| every objective measure my experience is that this WOE
||||| eating (and being very honest with myself about it in
||||| terms
||||| of sticking with it) for sustained weight loss has been
||||| more
||||| successful than I had ever hoped.
|||||
||||| Do I still have fat to lose? Yes, a bit, but I'm going
||||| to
||||| let exercise take care of the rest of it. I will
||||| continue
||||| to work on adding back a bit of muscle and strength so I
||||| expect lots of hours in the gym are still in my future.
|||
||| So what fat do you have to lose? When will you know it is
||| time to
||| stop?
|||
||
|| I've tried to make it clear that, so far as focus on weight
|| loss goes, I am done at 175.

No, you made that clear.

|| As far as remaining fat, I
|| still have a bit of pudginess around the waist and my chest.
|| Not too bad, but it is still there.

The reason for my question may not what you think. You're at a good weight
for someone of your height and frame size. But yet, you have some ideal
that you're working against that says that there is some more pudginess that
really ought to go (nothing wrong with that, BTW). What if time and
exercise doesn't remove that fat? If you're in maintenance, then you will,
by definition, be eating to maintain your weight. It is not clear to me
that time and exercise will provide a solution -- assuming there is a
problem.

I'm not that worried
|| about it and am willing to let time and exercise take its
|| course, which I apparently did not articulate well. At this
|| point I will keep on doing what has been working, we'll see
|| where my body finds its equilibrium.

Well, I think that is wise and my guess is that if you keep doing that,
you've already found your equilbrium.

Is this true: you're happy with where you are at this exact moment and if
nothing else changes, you'll be fine.

In article <FhgQc.205881$a24.22978@attbi_s03>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Down to 176, one more pound to go to my final weight loss
goal. I won't be adjusting my goal down again as this
weight is going to be fine.

You've done a FANTASTIC job, JJ! You're DEFINITELY an inspiration! Can't wait
for the new pics -- and please DO persuade your wife to join in!

--
Saffire
205/149/125 - 5'1.5"
Atkins since 6/14/03
Progress photo: http://photos.yahoo.com/saffire333

JJ, you are an inspiration to everone here. Go after and get that last
pound!

Thanks for your report, brother!

Roger Zoul said:

JJ wrote:

[snip of a bunch of no old stuff]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The psychological victory I was referring to was not
reaching a number goal by a date, but just reaching the
goal
itself so that I focus exclusively on the next big
thing.
Was it not clear in the subsequent paragraph that,
despite
this particular goal, my bigger and long term focus is
on
maintenance?

It might be clear to others, but 1 out of 176 seems like
such a small
relative amount that this particular goal seems somewhat
trivial and
not worthy of a psychological victory (to me, that is).
In my mind,
you're already achieved that. It would seem to me that
maintenance
is the ONLY thing to focus on. Also, that 1 lb is really
imaginary
to some degree, because weight will tend to move up and
down slightly
over time, and you'll not be able to control it.
Remember, you're
talking less than 0.6 % bodyweight here. The focus on
scale weight
tends to blind dieters to the real issues, imo.

You are no fun to argue with because we actually tend to be
in violent agreement on many points; you and I need to have
an argument one day over the difference between the meaning
of precision versus accuracy :-)

In this case the difference is likely to be nothing more
than one of personal perspective and personal nature. My
nature is to set a goal and achieve it as my nature is to
also always set stretch goals. If I'm not taking overt
action to improve myself I'm generally not happy. Is 175 a
stretch goal? Not any longer as I will get there with
little doubt. Would 175 have been a stretch goal 1 year
ago? My stretch goal then was 195, 175 wasn't even a faint
hope. Will I be unhappy if I don't reach 175? The question
becomes too philosophical at that point, I don't ever think
of this (or much of anything in my life) as an either/or
else statement. I perceive that your point of view is that
I am stating either I reach this goal or else I am a
failure. In your words that would be silly, and I would
agree. Buy my point of view is either I reach this goal or
else I will re-evaluate my progress and make corrections if
and where necessary. This is not just my philosophy in
terms of weight loss, this is how I live my life in general.
I like to set stretch goals and I like for those goals to be
just a little out of my current reach.

Quoted message said:

I'm not that worried

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

about it and am willing to let time and exercise take
its
course, which I apparently did not articulate well. At
this
point I will keep on doing what has been working, we'll
see
where my body finds its equilibrium.

Well, I think that is wise and my guess is that if you
keep doing
that, you've already found your equilbrium.

Is this true: you're happy with where you are at this
exact moment
and if nothing else changes, you'll be fine.

I think you are asking me if I agree with this statement;
the short answer is yes, of course. But, the long answer is
no, not quite, but this requires some explanation and
understanding. The weight I wish to maintain over time is
going to be 180, not 175. Anything above 180 starts to feel
a bit uncomfortable which is why it is the top. But to
maintain 180 over the long haul I already know that I need
to bottom out around 175. Again, this is not arbitrary,
this is what I have been working to understand over the last
few months.

Let's put this in the perspective of maintenance. I know
that if/when I increase my carbs even slightly over where I
am right now my weight will bounce back up almost overnight
by 7-9 pounds, then fluctuate down by about two
pounds...purely water weight fluctuations. Today this means
that I bounce up to about 183 then stabilize back around 181
over the next couple of days. I want that number to be 180
over time. Many folks maintain that day to day fluctuations
in weight are meaningless. In the overall scheme of things
I agree with this but just because they are meaningless does
not mean that they are unpredictable and unexplainable, I
like to be able to predict and explain things.

--
JJ.
275/176/175 - as of August 4, 2004
Atkins since Sep 1, 2003
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jjsmythe/my_photos
1, 2, 3...97, 98, 99...almost there

Pictures are worth a thousand words; you look like a different, younger, more
handsome person!!
Congratulations to you on your determination; you should be proud!

JJ wrote:
|| Roger Zoul wrote:
||| JJ wrote:
|| [snip of a bunch of no old stuff]
|||||
||||| The psychological victory I was referring to was not
||||| reaching a number goal by a date, but just reaching the
||||| goal
||||| itself so that I focus exclusively on the next big
||||| thing.
||||| Was it not clear in the subsequent paragraph that,
||||| despite
||||| this particular goal, my bigger and long term focus is
||||| on
||||| maintenance?
|||
||| It might be clear to others, but 1 out of 176 seems like
||| such a small
||| relative amount that this particular goal seems somewhat
||| trivial and
||| not worthy of a psychological victory (to me, that is).
||| In my mind,
||| you're already achieved that. It would seem to me that
||| maintenance
||| is the ONLY thing to focus on. Also, that 1 lb is really
||| imaginary
||| to some degree, because weight will tend to move up and
||| down slightly
||| over time, and you'll not be able to control it.
||| Remember, you're
||| talking less than 0.6 % bodyweight here. The focus on
||| scale weight
||| tends to blind dieters to the real issues, imo.
|||
||
|| You are no fun to argue with because we actually tend to be
|| in violent agreement on many points; you and I need to have
|| an argument one day over the difference between the meaning
|| of precision versus accuracy :-)

We'll put that on the agenda for the 2004 Atlanta LC Get Together. 🙂

BTW, I'm the type who loves probing deep into someone's head....I think it
bothers some people because they feel I'm attacking. I wasn't trying to
attack you.

||
|| In this case the difference is likely to be nothing more
|| than one of personal perspective and personal nature. My
|| nature is to set a goal and achieve it as my nature is to
|| also always set stretch goals. If I'm not taking overt
|| action to improve myself I'm generally not happy. Is 175 a
|| stretch goal? Not any longer as I will get there with
|| little doubt. Would 175 have been a stretch goal 1 year
|| ago? My stretch goal then was 195, 175 wasn't even a faint
|| hope. Will I be unhappy if I don't reach 175? The question
|| becomes too philosophical at that point, I don't ever think
|| of this (or much of anything in my life) as an either/or
|| else statement. I perceive that your point of view is that
|| I am stating either I reach this goal or else I am a
|| failure. In your words that would be silly, and I would
|| agree. Buy my point of view is either I reach this goal or
|| else I will re-evaluate my progress and make corrections if
|| and where necessary. This is not just my philosophy in
|| terms of weight loss, this is how I live my life in general.
|| I like to set stretch goals and I like for those goals to be
|| just a little out of my current reach.

Hmmm.....okay....I guess I see body goals differently than you. For example,
I'd see putting on 5 lbs of muscle as more worth achieving than being 175
instead of 176. And to gain muscle, you've generally got to gain some fat
along the way. But then you can relose the fat and keep most of the muscle.
You might end up at 179, rather than 175. I personally would be happier with
that result than simply to weigh 175. But that ME, not you. To remove the
pudginess you're either going to reduce body fat further, or gain some
muscle (to look better) and then lower the bodyfat. Another approach (or
goal) to consider is one of bodyshaping with not so much of a focus on scale
weight but moreso on bodycomposition.

||
|||
||| I'm not that worried
||||| about it and am willing to let time and exercise take
||||| its
||||| course, which I apparently did not articulate well. At
||||| this
||||| point I will keep on doing what has been working, we'll
||||| see
||||| where my body finds its equilibrium.
|||
||| Well, I think that is wise and my guess is that if you
||| keep doing
||| that, you've already found your equilbrium.
|||
||| Is this true: you're happy with where you are at this
||| exact moment
||| and if nothing else changes, you'll be fine.
||
|| I think you are asking me if I agree with this statement;
|| the short answer is yes, of course. But, the long answer is
|| no, not quite, but this requires some explanation and
|| understanding. The weight I wish to maintain over time is
|| going to be 180, not 175.

Oh...I had forgotten those discussions until just now.

Anything above 180 starts to feel
|| a bit uncomfortable which is why it is the top. But to
|| maintain 180 over the long haul I already know that I need
|| to bottom out around 175. Again, this is not arbitrary,
|| this is what I have been working to understand over the last
|| few months.

Oh..you're really trying to account for water weight? So if you eat around
100g of carbs per day will that bring you back to 180?

||
|| Let's put this in the perspective of maintenance. I know
|| that if/when I increase my carbs even slightly over where I
|| am right now my weight will bounce back up almost overnight
|| by 7-9 pounds, then fluctuate down by about two
|| pounds...purely water weight fluctuations. Today this means
|| that I bounce up to about 183 then stabilize back around 181
|| over the next couple of days. I want that number to be 180
|| over time.

I see.

|| Many folks maintain that day to day fluctuations
|| in weight are meaningless. In the overall scheme of things
|| I agree with this but just because they are meaningless does
|| not mean that they are unpredictable and unexplainable, I
|| like to be able to predict and explain things.
||

Where the body is concerned, sometimes things will be outside of one's
ability to predict and explain, sadly.

You are doing just great and I understand about your desire to reach that
goal...there's nothing quite like reaching the goal you've set for
yourself.

Keep it up. You'll make it. Your determination has certainly been a great
inspiration to all of us.

Becky P.
www.family.solidrockpl.org

You are doing just great and I understand about your desire to reach that
goal...there's nothing quite like reaching the goal you've set for
yourself.

Keep it up. You'll make it. Your determination has certainly been a great
inspiration to all of us.

Becky P.
www.family.solidrockpl.org

JJ said:

have counted calories the whole way in addition to counting
carbs...I ate at a 1400 calorie/day level for quite few
months with no real hunger issues at all.

JJ, JJ, JJ, at 1400 calories, you were eating below your BMR (of 1842
- according to one of the all-knowing online calculators), so you were
clearly in starvation mode.

I'm sorry to have to tell you that your weight loss has been an
illusion. As everybody is starting to learn, if you restrict calories
below a magic number you can find on the web, you won't lose weight.
Again, I'm sorry.

As a male, you can eat 350 calories above your BMR and still lose
weight.

Eat more, and you'll be okay. Start with 2100 calories and go up from
there.

Of course, I jest. Big congratulations to you. You've obviously done a
fantastic job!

RC

JJ said:

have counted calories the whole way in addition to counting
carbs...I ate at a 1400 calorie/day level for quite few
months with no real hunger issues at all.

JJ, JJ, JJ, at 1400 calories, you were eating below your BMR (of 1842
- according to one of the all-knowing online calculators), so you were
clearly in starvation mode.

I'm sorry to have to tell you that your weight loss has been an
illusion. As everybody is starting to learn, if you restrict calories
below a magic number you can find on the web, you won't lose weight.
Again, I'm sorry.

As a male, you can eat 350 calories above your BMR and still lose
weight.

Eat more, and you'll be okay. Start with 2100 calories and go up from
there.

Of course, I jest. Big congratulations to you. You've obviously done a
fantastic job!

RC

RC wrote:
|| On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 01:44:05 GMT, "JJ" <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| have counted calories the whole way in addition to counting
||| carbs...I ate at a 1400 calorie/day level for quite few
||| months with no real hunger issues at all.
||
||
||
|| JJ, JJ, JJ, at 1400 calories, you were eating below your BMR (of 1842
|| - according to one of the all-knowing online calculators), so you
|| were clearly in starvation mode.
||
|| I'm sorry to have to tell you that your weight loss has been an
|| illusion. As everybody is starting to learn, if you restrict calories
|| below a magic number you can find on the web, you won't lose weight.
|| Again, I'm sorry.
||
|| As a male, you can eat 350 calories above your BMR and still lose
|| weight.
||
|| Eat more, and you'll be okay. Start with 2100 calories and go up from
|| there.
||
||
|| Of course, I jest. Big congratulations to you. You've obviously done
|| a fantastic job!
||
|| RC

RC -- long time no post, huh? How goes it? Still maintaining?

Roger Zoul said:

RC wrote:
|| On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 01:44:05 GMT, "JJ" <[email hidden]> wrote:
||
||| have counted calories the whole way in addition to counting
||| carbs...I ate at a 1400 calorie/day level for quite few
||| months with no real hunger issues at all.
||
||
||
|| JJ, JJ, JJ, at 1400 calories, you were eating below your BMR (of 1842
|| - according to one of the all-knowing online calculators), so you
|| were clearly in starvation mode.
||
|| I'm sorry to have to tell you that your weight loss has been an
|| illusion. As everybody is starting to learn, if you restrict calories
|| below a magic number you can find on the web, you won't lose weight.
|| Again, I'm sorry.
||
|| As a male, you can eat 350 calories above your BMR and still lose
|| weight.
||
|| Eat more, and you'll be okay. Start with 2100 calories and go up from
|| there.
||
||
|| Of course, I jest. Big congratulations to you. You've obviously done
|| a fantastic job!
||
|| RC

RC -- long time no post, huh? How goes it? Still maintaining?

Hey Roger,

I've been back once in a while. How it goes...I have to say it is a
real battle. I got 5lbs back as soon as I stopped losing, which I
expected. I had made a final push and got back the water. In the 14 or
so months since then, I've gone through a few cycles of staying at a
particular weight for a few months, accepting that weight, then
creeping up a few pounds. The total is more than 20 lbs now, so I'm
back on; trying to get back down. I'm not freaked out because
considering that I lost 108 pounds, I'm still doing well, but I find
it extremely hard to lose now. The worst thing I did was to fall out
of my exercise routine. It's tough getting back into it.

I'm back to reading the group a bit because it keeps my mind on what
I'm doing. I still find that some of the advice that is given and
accepted as gospel just drives me nuts. But hey, what can I do?

Be easy,
RC

RC said:

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:14:47 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[cut]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

RC -- long time no post, huh? How goes it? Still maintaining?

Hey Roger,

I've been back once in a while. How it goes...I have to say it is a
real battle. I got 5lbs back as soon as I stopped losing, which I
expected. I had made a final push and got back the water. In the 14 or
so months since then, I've gone through a few cycles of staying at a
particular weight for a few months, accepting that weight, then
creeping up a few pounds. The total is more than 20 lbs now, so I'm
back on; trying to get back down. I'm not freaked out because
considering that I lost 108 pounds, I'm still doing well, but I find
it extremely hard to lose now. The worst thing I did was to fall out
of my exercise routine. It's tough getting back into it.

I'm back to reading the group a bit because it keeps my mind on what
I'm doing. I still find that some of the advice that is given and
accepted as gospel just drives me nuts. But hey, what can I do?

Be easy,
RC

Like what kind of gospel?

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

RC said:

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:14:47 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[cut]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

RC -- long time no post, huh? How goes it? Still maintaining?

Hey Roger,

I've been back once in a while. How it goes...I have to say it is a
real battle. I got 5lbs back as soon as I stopped losing, which I
expected. I had made a final push and got back the water. In the 14 or
so months since then, I've gone through a few cycles of staying at a
particular weight for a few months, accepting that weight, then
creeping up a few pounds. The total is more than 20 lbs now, so I'm
back on; trying to get back down. I'm not freaked out because
considering that I lost 108 pounds, I'm still doing well, but I find
it extremely hard to lose now. The worst thing I did was to fall out
of my exercise routine. It's tough getting back into it.

I'm back to reading the group a bit because it keeps my mind on what
I'm doing. I still find that some of the advice that is given and
accepted as gospel just drives me nuts. But hey, what can I do?

Be easy,
RC

Like what kind of gospel?

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 17:57:50 GMT, Bob in CT <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

RC said:

On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 13:14:47 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[cut]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

RC -- long time no post, huh? How goes it? Still maintaining?

Hey Roger,

I've been back once in a while. How it goes...I have to say it is a
real battle. I got 5lbs back as soon as I stopped losing, which I
expected. I had made a final push and got back the water. In the 14 or
so months since then, I've gone through a few cycles of staying at a
particular weight for a few months, accepting that weight, then
creeping up a few pounds. The total is more than 20 lbs now, so I'm
back on; trying to get back down. I'm not freaked out because
considering that I lost 108 pounds, I'm still doing well, but I find
it extremely hard to lose now. The worst thing I did was to fall out
of my exercise routine. It's tough getting back into it.

I'm back to reading the group a bit because it keeps my mind on what
I'm doing. I still find that some of the advice that is given and
accepted as gospel just drives me nuts. But hey, what can I do?

Be easy,
RC

Like what kind of gospel?

Hi Bob,

As you might have guessed from my post, for one thing (and primarily),
I have a problem with what I see a nearly constant misapplication of
the concept of starvation mode metabolism to obesity and weight loss.
It's rampant here and it's so ingrained that it's never seriously
looked at.

I thinks it's funny and sad at the same time that if JJ had sought
advice on a stall and reported that he was eating 1400 calories per
day at some point along his amazingly successful journey, it is a
virtual certainty that there would have been a chorus of voices saying
"You're not eating enough," "You're in starvation mode," "Your BMR is
X according to this web site, and you need to eat at or above it in
order to lose weight," "You're 230lbs, you need to eat 10X to 12X your
weight; 2300 to 2760 calories per day to lose," etc.

One of the saddest examples of this that I saw was a woman who weighed
about 380, who hadn't gotten past square one on Atkins. She was
confused and posting misplaced concerns. She was reading everything
she could online instead of following the book. She was on absolute
information overload. While she was satisfied at something like 1800
calories, "the group" advised that if she didn't eat 10X her weight in
calories per day, she would go into starvation mode, her metabolism
would crash, and she would not be able to lose weight.

She went along with the group. I wonder what happened to her.

In and environment like this that's all about signal to noise ratio,
the majority almost always wins out, even if they might be badly and
sadly misinforming someone. That person is then added to their numbers
and the cycle continues and grows the next time advice on the same
subject is sought.

RC

[cut]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Like what kind of gospel?

Hi Bob,

As you might have guessed from my post, for one thing (and primarily),
I have a problem with what I see a nearly constant misapplication of
the concept of starvation mode metabolism to obesity and weight loss.
It's rampant here and it's so ingrained that it's never seriously
looked at.

I thinks it's funny and sad at the same time that if JJ had sought
advice on a stall and reported that he was eating 1400 calories per
day at some point along his amazingly successful journey, it is a
virtual certainty that there would have been a chorus of voices saying
"You're not eating enough," "You're in starvation mode," "Your BMR is
X according to this web site, and you need to eat at or above it in
order to lose weight," "You're 230lbs, you need to eat 10X to 12X your
weight; 2300 to 2760 calories per day to lose," etc.

One of the saddest examples of this that I saw was a woman who weighed
about 380, who hadn't gotten past square one on Atkins. She was
confused and posting misplaced concerns. She was reading everything
she could online instead of following the book. She was on absolute
information overload. While she was satisfied at something like 1800
calories, "the group" advised that if she didn't eat 10X her weight in
calories per day, she would go into starvation mode, her metabolism
would crash, and she would not be able to lose weight.

She went along with the group. I wonder what happened to her.

In and environment like this that's all about signal to noise ratio,
the majority almost always wins out, even if they might be badly and
sadly misinforming someone. That person is then added to their numbers
and the cycle continues and grows the next time advice on the same
subject is sought.

RC

I've always felt that eating less means that you're more likely to lose
weight. The only time I find eating less to a bit "dangerous" is when the
person is exercising. Then, I still think the "eat less" philosophy is
good, but it's just harder to gauge. If you eat too few calories/protein,
you could lose muscle mass. Other than that, I'm all for eating less.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply