One Dawes closes, another Dawes opens?

Martin Bulmer said:

I've been riding a Dawes Synthesis hybrid for the last few years, for leisurely day touring. I
want to upgrade to a "proper" tourer. Have looked at Mercian, which I covet greatly, but don't
want to spen £1000 plus, so thinking of Dawes Horizon or Galaxy. I'm told the frame is the same,
but the Galaxy has a front luggage rack (which I won't need) and a "better" group set. Is it £200
better, or should I go for the Horizon?

Well, if you look at the pictures on the website dawes-cycles.co.ukdawes-cycles.co.ukOpen ↗ you'll see that the
frames aren't the same. The Galaxy also has all-round better components and more gears. If you can
afford it the Galaxy is the better buy.
--
Michael MacClancy Random pleonasm - "Cliches are a dime a dozen--avoid them like the plague."
www.macclancy.demon.co.uk www.macclancy.co.uk

"Martin Bulmer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've > thinking of Dawes Horizon or Galaxy. I'm told the frame is the

same, but the

Quoted message said:

Galaxy has a front luggage rack (which I won't need) and a "better" group set. Is it £200 better,
or should I go for the Horizon?

Martin Bulmer

Until a couple of years ago, I would have sworn by Dawes Galaxy but in my

opinion their current wheels are not up to touring with reports of frequent spoke breakages. The
Super Galaxy might be better.

Cliff

Quoted message said:

Martin Bulmer said:

I've been riding a Dawes Synthesis hybrid for the last few years, for leisurely day touring. I want
to upgrade to a "proper" tourer. Have looked at Mercian, which I covet greatly, but don't want to
spen £1000 plus, so thinking of Dawes Horizon or Galaxy. I'm told the frame is the same, but the
Galaxy has a front luggage rack (which I won't need) and a "better" group set. Is it £200 better,
or should I go for the Horizon?

No. The Horizon and the Ultra Galaxy both have compact frames but the Ultra Galaxy's is a much
higher spec. The Galaxy and the Super Galaxy have the same frame, which is the traditional touring
geometry and in good old Reynolds 531. The Horizon's frame is Reynolds 520. Neither the Horizon nor
the Ultra Galaxy has a front rack, but both the Galaxy and the Super Galaxy do. It's a divided
lowrider rack. I think in former times only the Super Galaxy had it.

Interestingly the Super Galaxy now has STI brifters while the lower spec Galaxy has bar end levers,
which are much more sensible for a touring bike.

--
Dave...

Martin Bulmer said:

I've been riding a Dawes Synthesis hybrid for the last few years, for leisurely day touring. I
want to upgrade to a "proper" tourer. Have loo=

ked

Quoted message said:

at Mercian, which I covet greatly, but don't want to spen =A31000 plus,=

so

Quoted message said:

thinking of Dawes Horizon or Galaxy. I'm told the frame is the same, bu=

t the

Quoted message said:

Galaxy has a front luggage rack (which I won't need) and a "better" gro=

up

Quoted message said:

set. Is it =A3200 better, or should I go for the Horizon?

If I was choosing between Dawes Tourers < =A31000 I'd probably get a=20 Sardar... The main
difference is the Sardar has 26" wheels, which gives=20 you IMHO a better selection of possible
tyres and stronger wheels, both=20 of which are Good Things on a tourer. Also you get Vs rather
than=20 Cantis, and while not necessarily more effective when set up your=20 resupply of pads and
bits in future will again be easier. AFAICT the=20 main reason to run Cantis and 700c on "proper
tourers" is that's what=20 "proper tourers" have always been seen to have had.

My own choice of tourer is the recumbent Streetmachine, which I'll=20 happily recommend, but it
costs more than a grand :-(

Pete. --=20 Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics,
Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Michael MacClancy said:

Martin Bulmer said:

I've been riding a Dawes Synthesis hybrid for the last few years, for leisurely day touring. I
want to upgrade to a "proper" tourer. Have looked at Mercian, which I covet greatly, but don't
want to spen £1000 plus, so thinking of Dawes Horizon or Galaxy. I'm told the frame is the same,
but the Galaxy has a front luggage rack (which I won't need) and a "better" group set. Is it £200
better, or should I go for the Horizon?

Well, if you look at the pictures on the website dawes-cycles.co.ukdawes-cycles.co.ukOpen ↗ you'll see that the
frames aren't the same. The Galaxy also has all-round better components and more gears. If you can
afford it the Galaxy is the better buy.

Go for the Galaxy if you can afford it. I would have done when I got my tourer in 1987 ! You will
most likely find the front rack useful if you decide to go on tour.

Clifford Griffiths said:

Until a couple of years ago, I would have sworn by Dawes Galaxy but in my opinion their current
wheels are not up to touring with reports of frequent spoke breakages. The Super Galaxy might
be better.

Machine-built wheels (spit). Nothing that having them retensioned by hand wouldn't fix, though, and
at much lower cost than upgrading to a SuperG. Not that this would stop me buying the SuperG anyway
(it didn't last time, after all).

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Dave Kahn said:

Interestingly the Super Galaxy now has STI brifters while the lower spec Galaxy has bar end
levers, which are much more sensible for a touring bike.

My tourer has STIs which I find much more sensible than bar end shifters for touring since I spend a
lot of time riding on the hoods.

Colin
--

Peter Clinch said:

AFAICT the main reason to run Cantis and 700c on "proper tourers" is that's what "proper tourers"
have always been seen to have had.

:-( Mine is not a proper tourer as I don't have cantis or V brakes, the
reason being they didn't exist when my bike was built ! It actuall came with 27" wheels too but now
has 700c ones !

--
The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely. mseries.freeserve.co.ukmseries.freeserve.co.ukOpen ↗

you know? said:

Clifford Griffiths said:

Until a couple of years ago, I would have sworn by Dawes Galaxy but in my opinion their current
wheels are not up to touring with reports of frequent spoke breakages. The Super Galaxy might be
better.

Machine-built wheels (spit). Nothing that having them retensioned by hand wouldn't fix, though, and
at much lower cost than upgrading to a SuperG. Not that this would stop me buying the SuperG anyway
(it didn't last time, after all).

On either bike the wheels will almost certainly benefit from a retensioning of the spokes, retruing
and stress relieving. The dealer should give a free first service and it's worth asking if this wold
be included.

--
Dave...

Dave Kahn said:

Quoted message said:

Machine-built wheels (spit). Nothing that having them retensioned by hand wouldn't fix, though,
and at much lower cost than upgrading to a SuperG. Not that this would stop me buying the SuperG
anyway (it didn't last time, after all).

On either bike the wheels will almost certainly benefit from a retensioning of the spokes,
retruing and stress relieving. The dealer should give a free first service and it's worth asking
if this wold be included.

I agree - except a lot of dealers won't know what stress relieving is let alone how to do it. After
any retensioning, owners can do this themselves by grabbing pairs of spokes wearing gardening
gloves, and squeezing them very hard together. (Many other methods tend to be ineffective at
reducing future metal fatigue). Some slight adjustment may be needed afterwards to get the wheel
perfectly true again.

Do Dawes tourer wheels now have double butted spokes? They really shouldn't use plain gauge on such
good bikes.

~PB

I said:

Martin Bulmer said:

I've been riding a Dawes Synthesis hybrid for the last few years, for leisurely day touring. I
want to upgrade to a "proper" tourer. Have looked at Mercian, which I covet greatly, but don't
want to spen £1000 plus, so thinking of Dawes Horizon or Galaxy. I'm told the frame is the same,
but the Galaxy has a front luggage rack (which I won't need) and a "better" group set. Is it £200
better, or should I go for the Horizon?

No.

I meant "no" to "is it the same frame?" (Galaxy as Horizon), not "no" to "is it £200 better?" The
answer to the latter question depends on how much riding you intend to do. The Horizon is a
perfectly good bike.

--
Dave...

Colin Blackburn <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Dave Kahn said:

Interestingly the Super Galaxy now has STI brifters while the lower spec Galaxy has bar end
levers, which are much more sensible for a touring bike.

My tourer has STIs which I find much more sensible than bar end shifters for touring since I spend
a lot of time riding on the hoods.

STIs are superb as long as they are well adjusted and not broken. I have them on my racing bike and
really like them. However, they are not famous for their reliability, and are extremely difficult to
repair even in a workshop, never mind at the side of the road in the middle of nowhere. Bar ends
OTOH are simple and rugged, and if they go out of adjustment can be easily switched to friction mode
so you can carry on riding. This is why they are more sensible on a tourer.

--
Dave...

Dave Kahn said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Interestingly the Super Galaxy now has STI brifters while the lower spec Galaxy has bar end
levers, which are much more sensible for a touring bike.

My tourer has STIs which I find much more sensible than bar end shifters for touring since I
spend a lot of time riding on the hoods.

STIs are superb as long as they are well adjusted and not broken. I have them on my racing
bike and really like them. However, they are not famous for their reliability, and are
extremely difficult to repair even in a workshop, never mind at the side of the road in the
middle of nowhere. Bar ends OTOH are simple and rugged, and if they go out of adjustment can
be easily switched to friction mode so you can carry on riding. This is why they are more
sensible on a tourer.

Campag Ergos are more reliable in that they don't tend to fail catastrophically. In either case,
down tube levers can be carried for emergency use.

~PB

In "]news:[email hidden],
Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> expounded sagaciously:

Quoted message said:

Martin Bulmer said:

I've been riding a Dawes Synthesis hybrid for the last few years, for leisurely day touring. I
want to upgrade to a "proper" tourer. Have looked at Mercian, which I covet greatly, but don't
want to spen £1000 plus, so thinking of Dawes Horizon or Galaxy. I'm told the frame is the same,
but the Galaxy has a front luggage rack (which I won't need) and a "better" group set. Is it £200
better, or should I go for the Horizon?

If I was choosing between Dawes Tourers < £1000 I'd probably get a Sardar... The main difference
is the Sardar has 26" wheels, which gives you IMHO a better selection of possible tyres and
stronger wheels, both of which are Good Things on a tourer. Also you get Vs rather than Cantis,
and while not necessarily more effective when set up your resupply of pads and bits in future will
again be easier. AFAICT the main reason to run Cantis and 700c on "proper tourers" is that's what
"proper tourers" have always been seen to have had.

My own choice of tourer is the recumbent Streetmachine, which I'll happily recommend, but it costs
more than a grand :-(

Pete.

I quite like the look of the Sardar, and although I had intended to go traditional ( which seems to
rule out the Horizon now), I could be swayed. Does the smaller wheel have a significant effect on
the gearing? What width tyres will it take?
--

Martin Bulmer

Pie Conservation Threat

Dave Kahn said:

STIs are superb as long as they are well adjusted and not broken. I have them on my racing
bike and really like them. However, they are not famous for their reliability, and are
extremely difficult to repair even in a workshop, never mind at the side of the road in the
middle of nowhere. Bar ends OTOH are simple and rugged, and if they go out of adjustment can
be easily switched to friction mode so you can carry on riding. This is why they are more
sensible on a tourer.

I would accept that if I was touring anywhere other than Britain but then I'd probably go for 26"
wheels too. In several years of using STIs I have not had a single problem and the sort of touring I
do means I am never too far from help. Also my bike has braze-ons for down-tube shifters which would
be the ultimate fall back if there was a serious problem.

Colin
--

I've also been looking at getting a Dawes Horizon - my limited budget puts the Galaxy just about out of range so I need something to tide me over for a couple of years until I can afford something better.

As someone already pointed out, the Horizon is built with Reynolds 520 tubing. I can't find any information about this stuff on the Reynolds website. Do they actually make the stuff themselves or is it some cheap foreign version with Reynolds branding? Even if Reynolds had information on their site, the technical specs wouldn't mean much to me anyway. So can someone tell me what are the practical differences between 520 and 531 tubing? My current (ancient) bike is 531 so that's what I'm used to - will I notice the difference?

Also, I'm looking at a special offer for last year's model on the internet but as I have never bought a compact frame before and have never used STIs, I'm a bit concerned about buying without trying. (My LBS is a Dawes dealer but they only keep mountain bikes in stock, not tourers, which doesn't help.)

So, what size frame should I go for? For a standard frame I'd go for a 50 (c-c) or 52 (c-t) - even if someone could tell me whether Dawes measured c-c or c-t would be a help cos I'm guessing it's either the small (43) or medium (46) that I want.

And are STIs difficult to use/get used to? Will I need help/instruction first time I use them?

Sorry for so many questions - any answers would be much appreciated.

davek <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I've also been looking at getting a Dawes Horizon - my limited budget puts the Galaxy just about
out of range so I need something to tide me over for a couple of years until I can afford
something better.

As someone already pointed out, the Horizon is built with Reynolds 520 tubing. I can't find any
information about this stuff on the Reynolds website.

It's a crappy web site isn't it. My (fifteen year old) Horizon has a 501 frame with 531 front forks.

Vince.

davek wrote

Quoted message said:

I've also been looking at getting a Dawes Horizon - my limited budget puts the Galaxy just about
out of range so I need something to tide me over for a couple of years until I can afford
something better.

I've had a Horizon for a year or so (4000+ miles) and I'm very pleasd with it.

Quoted message said:

As someone already pointed out, the Horizon is built with Reynolds 520 tubing. I can't find any
information about this stuff on the Reynolds website.

Sorry, can't tell you much about it but the bike seems reasonably light and stiff.

Quoted message said:

Also, I'm looking at a special offer for last year's model on the internet but as I have never
bought a compact frame before and have never used STIs, I'm a bit concerned about buying without
trying. (My LBS is a Dawes dealer but they only keep mountain bikes in stock, not tourers, which
doesn't help.)

So, what size frame should I go for? For a standard frame I'd go for a 50 (c-c) or 52 (c-t) - even
if someone could tell me whether Dawes measured c-c or c-t would be a help cos I'm guessing it's
either the small (43) or medium (46) that I want.

And are STIs difficult to use/get used to? Will I need help/instruction first time I use them?

I'm about 172cm tall and the 46cm frame is just right. I'd never used STI's before but had no
problem getting the hang of them.

Mine came from Evans cycles who built the bike up so I could take a test ride. I'd certainly advise
trying one out if you possibly can.

Cheers, Mike

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And are STIs difficult to use/get used to? Will I need help/instruction first time I use them?

You can figure them out easily yourself. Getting instruction will avoid any need for riding slowly
in circles making lots of clicking noises. After, oooh, 5 minutes you'll love 'em.