On the road

Badger_South wrote:
:: Meanwhile, I'm cranking up the steep hill, a 10% grade, going slower
:: and slower thinking 'gee guys make up your minds if you have one'.
::
:: But they never do. Well, I'm not gonna be able to go further b/c I'll
:: either get right hooked to the right (with the only clear space), or
:: if I go left to the side of the moving van the cement driver will
:: try to squeeze by him up on the sidewalk.
::
:: And...THAT's exactly what he does!
::
:: Fortunately, by that time, I'm off the bike and pushing it up the
:: hill half-way in the yard of the residence, shaking my head and
:: laughing.

At least you read the situation well!

Badger_South said:

You really don't realize just what morons are behind the wheel until you've
biked on the road for a while.

Know what you mean. Yesterday I had right-of-way at intersection --
cross street has stop sign. As I sped through the intersection, car
from my right wasn't even slowing down. I hit the Air Zounds, motorist
wakes up and hits the brakes.

But there are good stories also. This morning I'm on a narrow road. A
school bus driver behind me stays behind me and waits back there until
it is safe to pass.

I frequently take a 4-lane, 50,000 vpd arterial home. The lanes are
wide enough to share for most vehicles, but some of the larger SUVs,
large trucks and city buses must merge left to get around me on my
bike. City bus drivers routinely stay well back from me until they
either get to their stop or until they can safely merge left.

RFM

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:49:15 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Badger_South wrote:
:: Meanwhile, I'm cranking up the steep hill, a 10% grade, going slower
:: and slower thinking 'gee guys make up your minds if you have one'.
::
:: But they never do. Well, I'm not gonna be able to go further b/c I'll
:: either get right hooked to the right (with the only clear space), or
:: if I go left to the side of the moving van the cement driver will
:: try to squeeze by him up on the sidewalk.
::
:: And...THAT's exactly what he does!
::
:: Fortunately, by that time, I'm off the bike and pushing it up the
:: hill half-way in the yard of the residence, shaking my head and
:: laughing.

At least you read the situation well!

Shee-yeah, you're not kidding. As it was I was really [censored], b/c
that's my 'challenge hill', and my ride centers on warming up to conquer
that hill. So you can imagine having to yield to some bone-head truckers.
Heck I could see it happening from about 100yds, and was -just- about 10
seconds from being able to crest the hill ahead of the moving van driver
and escaping the whole thing.

As you know having to get off and walk the crest of the hill is very
humiliating, even though in this case it wasn't due to conditioning or
ability. Plus, at the crest the road continues to go uphill but at a gentle
grade, and that's where I like to think I get my best training effect,
trying to continue to crank when I'm breathing hard and keeping up the
effort and discipline. Of course walking 50 yards breathing returned to
normal and I lost all that good stress! ;-<

On a different note, as I was returning to my house, I passed a man who had
to be about my age slowly pedalling up the hill next to my house which has
one of the steepest sections in the area and one that I've not tried yet.
The funny thing was he was dressed in street clothes and appeared to be in
no distress what-so-ever! Here I was, 'Mr Biker', in my bike shorts and
jersey all pumped and sweating and this guy goes by like 'oh, ho-hum, just
sightseeing here'. Dayum. I mean, sure he was riding in a much lower/easier
gear than I ride. I almost swung up next to him and asked him about his
riding, but being focussed on the last part of my ride, I didn't think
about it until later. ;-)

-B

(Fritz M) said:

Badger_South said:

You really don't realize just what morons are behind the wheel until you've
biked on the road for a while.

Know what you mean. Yesterday I had right-of-way at intersection --
cross street has stop sign. As I sped through the intersection, car
from my right wasn't even slowing down. I hit the Air Zounds, motorist
wakes up and hits the brakes.

But there are good stories also. This morning I'm on a narrow road. A
school bus driver behind me stays behind me and waits back there until
it is safe to pass.

I frequently take a 4-lane, 50,000 vpd arterial home. The lanes are
wide enough to share for most vehicles, but some of the larger SUVs,
large trucks and city buses must merge left to get around me on my
bike. City bus drivers routinely stay well back from me until they
either get to their stop or until they can safely merge left.

RFM

While that sounds good, I actually hate it when cars stay well back and
refuse to pass. I can never tell what they're thinking, and at every
cross-street, I keep thinking, 'that guy is gonna speed up and right-hook
me', and stuff. This is on low traffic roads where there's plenty of room
to pass, although there are cars parked along the side. So I keep having to
check my mirror and keep pulling over so they'll pass, and they never do.
It distracts from my concentration, particularly on hills. So far all of
them have been benign, but I'd rather they do the normal thing and pass so
I can get back to my riding. I'm sure I'll get over it as my road-riding
experience gets better. ;-)

-B

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:49:15 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
:: <[email hidden]> wrote:
::
::: Badger_South wrote:
::::: Meanwhile, I'm cranking up the steep hill, a 10% grade, going
::::: slower and slower thinking 'gee guys make up your minds if you
::::: have one'.
:::::
::::: But they never do. Well, I'm not gonna be able to go further b/c
::::: I'll either get right hooked to the right (with the only clear
::::: space), or if I go left to the side of the moving van the cement
::::: driver will try to squeeze by him up on the sidewalk.
:::::
::::: And...THAT's exactly what he does!
:::::
::::: Fortunately, by that time, I'm off the bike and pushing it up the
::::: hill half-way in the yard of the residence, shaking my head and
::::: laughing.
:::
::: At least you read the situation well!
::
:: Shee-yeah, you're not kidding. As it was I was really [censored], b/c
:: that's my 'challenge hill', and my ride centers on warming up to
:: conquer that hill. So you can imagine having to yield to some
:: bone-head truckers. Heck I could see it happening from about 100yds,
:: and was -just- about 10 seconds from being able to crest the hill
:: ahead of the moving van driver and escaping the whole thing.
::
:: As you know having to get off and walk the crest of the hill is very
:: humiliating, even though in this case it wasn't due to conditioning
:: or ability. Plus, at the crest the road continues to go uphill but
:: at a gentle grade, and that's where I like to think I get my best
:: training effect, trying to continue to crank when I'm breathing hard
:: and keeping up the effort and discipline. Of course walking 50 yards
:: breathing returned to normal and I lost all that good stress! ;-<

Hey, next time turn around go back down the hill and ride up again. I have
my training hills too, but luckily none of them are on or near
intersections.

::
:: On a different note, as I was returning to my house, I passed a man
:: who had to be about my age slowly pedalling up the hill next to my
:: house which has one of the steepest sections in the area and one
:: that I've not tried yet. The funny thing was he was dressed in
:: street clothes and appeared to be in no distress what-so-ever! Here
:: I was, 'Mr Biker', in my bike shorts and jersey all pumped and
:: sweating and this guy goes by like 'oh, ho-hum, just sightseeing
:: here'.

I hear ya, man! That's one reason I don't wear a real cycling jersey - I
don't want to appear too much like a pro or something. I wear the shorts
because I consider them necessary on long rides, but I usually go with a
solid color cotton shirt (heavy Tee)

Dayum. I mean, sure he was riding in a much lower/easier gear
:: than I ride. I almost swung up next to him and asked him about his
:: riding, but being focussed on the last part of my ride, I didn't
:: think about it until later. ;-)

Man - if you ask me, you should spring for an rig with 3 chainrings up from.
Did you get that new bike? Use your hybrid as a "beater" and move up to a
more serious road-worthy bike -- with granny gear. Having that granny gear
has saved my butt on many, many occasions. End the possible humiliation of
having to get off and walk a hill. Heck, just last weekend, my buddy and I
were out riding...we saw this guy coming toward us walking his bike up the
hill. I had the thought that he needed help, so I turned around and offered
assistance. Turns out, the joker was just walking his bike up a hill. Of
course, being a 240 lb rider, I secretly think to myself: Dude, you can't
ride up that hill??????? Maybe he was a heart attack surviver or something.
He didn't look any order then me, but he was way smaller than me.

I remember I use to not go certain routes because of the hills I would
encounter. Not any more. I take all hills as a personal challenge. And I
get into granny gear if I need to just to make sure I don't pull a quad
muscle or something (I did that on a charity ride and had to quit at 50
miles!). You can always raise the cadence to move faster if you want to.
Also, I like to protect my knees at all cost, so I don't risk a higher gear
than I feel neccesary. Long term riding is my goal.

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:34:01 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Hey, next time turn around go back down the hill and ride up again. I have
my training hills too, but luckily none of them are on or near
intersections.

Ah, I'm not at the point where I can tackle this hill twice in one ride, at
least not this week, although it's probably more mental than physical. Give
me a few more weeks and yeah, that will work. I mean I can -probably- do
it, and I push myself like a maniac, but my goal is also to be able to ride
again the next day.

On the 'mental' thing, I still have 'fear' of hills, and just don't want to
tackle a hill I know I'll fail on. There's a tactical reason, of course,
involving keeping a positive mental attitude, and building on little wins,
and stuff. Hah, I never had this feeling when I was 20 and weighted 155lbs.
;-)

Quoted message said:

:: On a different note, as I was returning to my house, I passed a man
:: who had to be about my age slowly pedalling up the hill next to my
:: house which has one of the steepest sections in the area and one
:: that I've not tried yet. The funny thing was he was dressed in
:: street clothes and appeared to be in no distress what-so-ever! Here
:: I was, 'Mr Biker', in my bike shorts and jersey all pumped and
:: sweating and this guy goes by like 'oh, ho-hum, just sightseeing
:: here'.

I hear ya, man! That's one reason I don't wear a real cycling jersey - I
don't want to appear too much like a pro or something. I wear the shorts
because I consider them necessary on long rides, but I usually go with a
solid color cotton shirt (heavy Tee)

Ah, what the hell, ppl can definitely tell I'm a bodybuilder type trying to
ride a bike, and not a pro biker or anything close, though this summer I
switched to a Nike sleeveless top, but in a wickable, fast drying fabric.

It looks like this, but tight fitting, and no center logo and black:

http://www.wqam.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=158

Quoted message said:

Dayum. I mean, sure he was riding in a much lower/easier gear
:: than I ride. I almost swung up next to him and asked him about his
:: riding, but being focussed on the last part of my ride, I didn't
:: think about it until later. ;-)

Man - if you ask me, you should spring for an rig with 3 chainrings up from.
Did you get that new bike? Use your hybrid as a "beater" and move up to a
more serious road-worthy bike -- with granny gear. Having that granny gear
has saved my butt on many, many occasions. End the possible humiliation of
having to get off and walk a hill.

Dude, I -refuse- to use the small chainring, though I have one (28 teeth).
I've never had to walk up a hill on my current ride due to conditioning.
Now obviously I'm not riding mile long 7% grade hills like you probably
are, but I have my pride! <g> Currently I'm always in the middle ring and
ride my hills at 10-12mph at least and in 38x22, or 38x25 at a minimum.

Quoted message said:

Heck, just last weekend, my buddy and I
were out riding...we saw this guy coming toward us walking his bike up the
hill. I had the thought that he needed help, so I turned around and offered
assistance. Turns out, the joker was just walking his bike up a hill. Of
course, being a 240 lb rider, I secretly think to myself: Dude, you can't
ride up that hill??????? Maybe he was a heart attack surviver or something.
He didn't look any order then me, but he was way smaller than me.

You're in the stage where you forgot your condition when you first started
back to biking -and- you now undervalue your current shape, haha.

Quoted message said:

I remember I use to not go certain routes because of the hills I would
encounter. Not any more. I take all hills as a personal challenge. And I
get into granny gear if I need to just to make sure I don't pull a quad
muscle or something (I did that on a charity ride and had to quit at 50
miles!). You can always raise the cadence to move faster if you want to.
Also, I like to protect my knees at all cost, so I don't risk a higher gear
than I feel neccesary. Long term riding is my goal.

Yeah, well that's a good strategy, but my quads are so strong, and the
hills are little hills that I never feel in danger of pulling anything,
though I had a calf muscle almost cramp, yesterday. I normally do many reps
with 225 and double and triples with over 300lbs in the squat, so I'm good
with the leg strength. I'm still developing vascularity and stamina and
filling out my inner lower quads, (though my legs are over 25" and calves
over 19" from all the weight training in the past.)

Still, gym squad ability doesn't transfer linearly over to biking up a
half-mile 10% grade hill. Some of my hills have got to be over 15% or more
in short sections of about 100 yds, but the longest hill I currently ride
is only 2-3 tenths of a mile. I need another few months of riding to get to
where you are, I think.

Props on the taking all hills as a personal challenge. I've got my eye on
one killer hill that takes me about 30 seconds to descend and I easily get
up to 35mph without pedalling. What's the stats on your hardest hill if you
don't mind my asking. ;-)

-B

Badger_South <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

You really don't realize just what morons are behind the wheel until you've
biked on the road for a while.

But aren't you the guy that wanted to have a follow car for your ride
on a narrow road without a shoulder so that you could go along at half
the speed limit and block traffic for 20 or 30 miles.

Bad decsison are not confined to the motorized traveler.

Look a little deeper into that mirror.

(gds) said:

Badger_South <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

You really don't realize just what morons are behind the wheel until you've
biked on the road for a while.

But aren't you the guy that wanted to have a follow car for your ride
on a narrow road without a shoulder so that you could go along at half
the speed limit and block traffic for 20 or 30 miles.

Bad decsison are not confined to the motorized traveler.

Look a little deeper into that mirror.

Yes, I did pose that question, but it's b/c there are not that many decent
semi-flat routes in my area and it was dumb, and borne out of desperation.

You're jumping the gun to apply that to me, b/c I only -asked-, I didn't do
it, and don't -want- to do it.

So I've been back to biking at 50 for less than a year. You let me know
when you get to that point. Tell me you've never asked a dumb question.

I admit it, I still ask dumb questions and do dumb things on the bike, but
it's done sincerely and not out of malice or the desire to run someone off
the road.

-B

In article <[email hidden]>,

Badger_South said:

While that sounds good, I actually hate it when cars stay well back and
refuse to pass. I can never tell what they're thinking, and at every
cross-street, I keep thinking, 'that guy is gonna speed up and right-hook
me', and stuff. This is on low traffic roads where there's plenty of room
to pass, although there are cars parked along the side. So I keep having to
check my mirror and keep pulling over so they'll pass, and they never do.

Try shoulder-checking and looking right at them.
I find they often just want reassurance that I
know they're there, and then they make their move.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

In article <[email hidden]>,

Badger_South said:

As you know having to get off and walk the crest of the hill is very
humiliating

No, it isn't. It's an option open to any rider who
feels like getting off and walking. If any newbie
who is still developing their bike legs-&-lungs takes
on a hill and finds they've bitten off a little more
than they could chew, I'd like for them to know there's
no shame in doing as much as they could and then
deciding they don't have to kill themselves. Next time
will be better, and the time after that, better still.

Sometimes, as in the situation you describe, having to
get off and walk because of circumstances beyond our
control can be an annoying inconvenience, but I wouldn't
call it 'humiliating', any time.

cheers,
Tom

--
-- Nothing is safe from me.
Above address is just a spam midden.
I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

Tom Keats said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Badger_South said:

As you know having to get off and walk the crest of the hill is very
humiliating

No, it isn't. It's an option open to any rider who
feels like getting off and walking. If any newbie
who is still developing their bike legs-&-lungs takes
on a hill and finds they've bitten off a little more
than they could chew, I'd like for them to know there's
no shame in doing as much as they could and then
deciding they don't have to kill themselves. Next time
will be better, and the time after that, better still.

Sometimes, as in the situation you describe, having to
get off and walk because of circumstances beyond our
control can be an annoying inconvenience, but I wouldn't
call it 'humiliating', any time.

cheers,
Tom

I sometimes get off and walk as an option, especially after 40 miles
or so of mountains already behind me. I just stop walking at the top,
enjoy the view, have a drink, and let my sore butt get some blood
circulating again. The sit down part is the reason for getting off
the bike, not the too tired to pedal part.
Bill Baka, wearing Levis as usual.

--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

(Tom Keats) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Badger_South said:

As you know having to get off and walk the crest of the hill is very
humiliating

No, it isn't. It's an option open to any rider who
feels like getting off and walking. If any newbie
who is still developing their bike legs-&-lungs takes
on a hill and finds they've bitten off a little more
than they could chew, I'd like for them to know there's
no shame in doing as much as they could and then
deciding they don't have to kill themselves. Next time
will be better, and the time after that, better still.

Guess I should have said 'I felt humiliated', which is what I felt, right
or wrong, and was hoping nobody saw me doing that. Uh, imagine that someone
did see me and not the truck problem, then started jeering. I would feel
embarassed and feel the need to explain. I'm from the 'no pain, no gain'
school, so, yeah, YMMV. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Sometimes, as in the situation you describe, having to
get off and walk because of circumstances beyond our
control can be an annoying inconvenience, but I wouldn't
call it 'humiliating', any time.

Well if you read Roger's post seeing a guy walking a bike, you'll note that
he innocently though 'oh, he must be recovering from a heart transplant'.
;-)

Us ROGs are sensitive about such things, as we battle father time, and
vanity, haha.

I get your point, though.

-B

Quoted message said:

cheers,
Tom

(Tom Keats) said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Badger_South said:

While that sounds good, I actually hate it when cars stay well back and
refuse to pass. I can never tell what they're thinking, and at every
cross-street, I keep thinking, 'that guy is gonna speed up and right-hook
me', and stuff. This is on low traffic roads where there's plenty of room
to pass, although there are cars parked along the side. So I keep having to
check my mirror and keep pulling over so they'll pass, and they never do.

Try shoulder-checking and looking right at them.
I find they often just want reassurance that I
know they're there, and then they make their move.

Yep, done that. You'd think that pulling over to a foot from the edge of
the road momentarily would clue them in, but they're stubborn mofos. I
don't like passing a biker on a road with a double-yellow when there's
on-coming traffic, so I will slow and let them ride, but on a road with no
other traffic that's unlined, and room for three cars plus myself, it's
puzzling; thus the slight concern that something's going on, like they're
kids searching for something to throw, heh.

So lately, I've just been speeding up when it happens on the flats and
getting up to 20-25mph and taking the road until my route turns off, or
there's a convenient side street.

Thanks for the tip, though.

-B

Quoted message said:

cheers,
Tom

Tom Keats said:

Quoted message said:

While that sounds good, I actually hate it when cars stay well back
and refuse to pass. I can never tell what they're thinking, and at
every cross-street, I keep thinking, 'that guy is gonna speed up
and right-hook me', and stuff. This is on low traffic roads where
there's plenty of room to pass, although there are cars parked
along the side. So I keep having to check my mirror and keep
pulling over so they'll pass, and they never do.

Quoted message said:

Try shoulder-checking and looking right at them. I find they often
just want reassurance that I know they're there, and then they make
their move.

That won't help with the best alarmists, drivers who don't pass
because they believe bicyclists are completely unpredictable. When I
encounter such folks, I stop and force them to go by, at which they
often floor the engine and swerve to the far side of the road, beyond
the double center strip, to make apparent what a hazard they are
skirting. Meanwhile the cars behind them have no problem driving by,
even though I continued riding as soon as the alarmist floored his
engine.

Making such drivers pass is important, because drivers of following
cars hold the bicyclist responsible for the hold up, not the alarmist
who is "only trying to be safe".

I find odd that bicyclists are not immune to this disease, having
ridden with some of the afflicted. When driving, they have no empathy
for bicyclists and when bicycling have none for drivers. This is
apparent from the comments they offer and from incessant car-up,
car-back calls, often from the other end of a column of bicyclists.
There isn't much you can say as they persist in their elitist act in
which others are not as perceptive as they, regardless whether behind
the wheel 0f the handlebar.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Tom Keats said:

Quoted message said:

As you know having to get off and walk the crest of the hill is
very humiliating

Quoted message said:

No, it isn't. It's an option open to any rider who feels like
getting off and walking. If any newbie who is still developing
their bike legs-&-lungs takes on a hill and finds they've bitten off
a little more than they could chew, I'd like for them to know
there's no shame in doing as much as they could and then deciding
they don't have to kill themselves. Next time will be better, and
the time after that, better still.

I guess it all depends on how big an airfoil and number of exhaust
pipes the rider has on his car, on whether such bicycling strictures
apply. It may not be apparent, but appearance isn't everything and in
recreation it rates at the bottom of the list. I hope not all new
bicyclists are peacocks.

Quoted message said:

Sometimes, as in the situation you describe, having to get off and
walk because of circumstances beyond our control can be an annoying
inconvenience, but I wouldn't call it 'humiliating', any time.

I agree, and who cares? Some folks have less than cigarette paper
thin skin.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Tom Keats said:

Quoted message said:

While that sounds good, I actually hate it when cars stay well back
and refuse to pass. I can never tell what they're thinking, and at
every cross-street, I keep thinking, 'that guy is gonna speed up
and right-hook me', and stuff. This is on low traffic roads where
there's plenty of room to pass, although there are cars parked
along the side. So I keep having to check my mirror and keep
pulling over so they'll pass, and they never do.

Quoted message said:

Try shoulder-checking and looking right at them. I find they often
just want reassurance that I know they're there, and then they make
their move.

That won't help with the best alarmists, drivers who don't pass
because they believe bicyclists are completely unpredictable. When I
encounter such folks, I stop and force them to go by, at which they
often floor the engine and swerve to the far side of the road, beyond
the double center strip, to make apparent what a hazard they are
skirting. Meanwhile the cars behind them have no problem driving by,
even though I continued riding as soon as the alarmist floored his
engine.

Making such drivers pass is important, because drivers of following
cars hold the bicyclist responsible for the hold up, not the alarmist
who is "only trying to be safe".

I find odd that bicyclists are not immune to this disease, having
ridden with some of the afflicted. When driving, they have no empathy
for bicyclists and when bicycling have none for drivers. This is
apparent from the comments they offer and from incessant car-up,
car-back calls, often from the other end of a column of bicyclists.
There isn't much you can say as they persist in their elitist act in
which others are not as perceptive as they, regardless whether behind
the wheel 0f the handlebar.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Well, I have to say I've used this 'bikers are unpredictable' a few times
when I thought a driver was going to pass me in a very unsafe place, such
as at a traffic island that caused the lane to narrow just enough for one
car, with a couple feet of clearance total. I just -knew- the guy was going
to try and pass me in the narrow, squeezing by. But when you're afraid of
being run down by some guy speeding 10 miles over the speed limit into a
housing development just to get home 5 seconds sooner...well... ;-)

-B

Badger_South <[email hidden]> wrote in message >

Quoted message said:

So I've been back to biking at 50 for less than a year. You let me know
when you get to that point.

Wellllll it will be hard for me to "get to" that point as I'm already
60 and while I have taken several "breaks" from cycling they have been
to pursue with some intensity some other activity. So, I must say I
have no experience with getting back into shape as I never let myself
get out. I don't say this to brag; fact is I know lots of folks who
have done the same- actually almost all of my crowd. But I do get a
little tired of the newfound religous type zeal of the "getting back
to shape crowd." And remember you started this thread as a complaint
about something to the effect of "all those moron motorists."

As to dumb questions. I'm a believer in questions and ignorance isn't
necessarily dumb. If you don't know something and ask about it I don't
think that's dumb.

But posing the question you posed- regarding the follow car- was
something that as a 50 yo adult you should have known. This was not a
matter of technical information seeking -which is a good thing- but
rather an egotistical exersize of defining a situation in which you
could assert your rights as a cyclist. I'd argue it is the self
absorbed trait that has you accusing motorists of being morons in this
thread. You need to assert your superiority.

My suggestion- use all this anger energy to ride more. You'll feel
better as a result and will become more inner directed and you will
not have to worry so much about what everyone else is doing.

That's a tip from Dr. Phil :-)

Badger_South <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(gds) said:

Badger_South <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

You really don't realize just what morons are behind the wheel until you've
biked on the road for a while.

But aren't you the guy that wanted to have a follow car for your ride
on a narrow road without a shoulder so that you could go along at half
the speed limit and block traffic for 20 or 30 miles.

Bad decsison are not confined to the motorized traveler.

Look a little deeper into that mirror.

Yes, I did pose that question, but it's b/c there are not that many decent
semi-flat routes in my area and it was dumb, and borne out of desperation.

You're jumping the gun to apply that to me, b/c I only -asked-, I didn't do
it, and don't -want- to do it.

Hmm..."jumping the gun" seems to happen a lot around here.

Quoted message said:

So I've been back to biking at 50 for less than a year. You let me know
when you get to that point. Tell me you've never asked a dumb question.

But when others ask them, they get plonked.

Quoted message said:

I admit it, I still ask dumb questions and do dumb things on the bike, but
it's done sincerely and not out of malice or the desire to run someone off
the road.

Same here.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill Baka said:

I sometimes get off and walk as an option, especially after 40 miles
or so of mountains already behind me. I just stop walking at the top,
enjoy the view, have a drink, and let my sore butt get some blood
circulating again. The sit down part is the reason for getting off
the bike, not the too tired to pedal part.
Bill Baka, wearing Levis as usual.

So, you sometimes walk, because it just feels good.
Same here! It's all part of the freedom that comes
with riding. Might as well enjoy it to the fullest.
We can get off our bikes, and back on 'em any time
we want. If we did that with public transit buses,
we might have to pay extra carfare to get on the
next bus. After waiting maybe a long time for it.

Now, some folks like to get on their bikes and just go,
go, go. And that's fine. I ain't criticizing or
finding fault with that. There's plenty of room in
cycling for all kinds of styles & approaches.

I guess some folks like to ride for where they can take
it in terms of physical fitness etc, and others (like
you & me) like to ride for where it takes us. Ultimately
there are probably elements of both in any rider's approach.
So, we're all kindred spirits; just with varying priorities.

I'm not going to criticize anybody for riding their bike.

cheers,
Tom

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