On-bike nutrition advice sought

Quoted message said:

Subject: On-bike nutrition advice sought
From: Dave Stallard [email hidden]
Date: 7/20/2004 7:23 PM US Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

I did a 90 mile ride on Saturday. I finished pretty strongly, but hit
the bonk in a couple of places in the middle - no power in my legs,
feeling unequal to any gradient, etc. Strangely, the same places I did
the last time, and not even steep hills.

I take Clif bars and Powerade in my water bottle. I love the taste of
Clif bars, but they don't sit well in my stomache while cycling.
Towards the end of the ride, I'll step up to one of the caffeinated "Ice
Series" Clif bars. I also use a GU gel pack for that one most
difficult moment. Total for the ride: 2.5 Clif bars, one 100 calorie
GU gel pack, and 40 ounces of Powerade, supplemented by probably 40-60
ounces of regular water.

Questions: Am I eating enough?

Are there more digestible bars than Clif? I really want something that
digests and comes online as soon as possible. (I don't like the GUs too
much).

Does anybody use one of those "musette" bags for food? (I bet if food
was easier to reach, in smaller bites, I would eat more regularly during
the ride.)

Dave

I ride for 2-4 hours and never eat and barely drink Compared to whay I read
other people need. My rides are anywhere from 20-50 miles. Seems like you
should be able to make it. Once in awhile I might bring a banana or a piece of
jerky.
I eat and drink when I get back....

Dave Stallard wrote:
|| I did a 90 mile ride on Saturday. I finished pretty strongly, but
|| hit the bonk in a couple of places in the middle - no power in my
|| legs, feeling unequal to any gradient, etc. Strangely, the same
|| places I did the last time, and not even steep hills.

How much do you weigh? How did you recover from the bonk - did you start
eating in response to this feeling? From teh sounds of it, I'm wondering if
you really bonked. You said you finished strongly, so you obviously
recovered. What you ate below doesn't sound as if it would have helped you
recover to finish strong from a bonk.

||
|| I take Clif bars and Powerade in my water bottle. I love the taste
|| of Clif bars, but they don't sit well in my stomache while cycling.
|| Towards the end of the ride, I'll step up to one of the caffeinated
|| "Ice Series" Clif bars. I also use a GU gel pack for that one
|| most difficult moment. Total for the ride: 2.5 Clif bars, one 100
|| calorie GU gel pack, and 40 ounces of Powerade, supplemented by
|| probably 40-60 ounces of regular water.

That seems reasonable to me. But you may want to get more carbs before your
ride that will help prevent the bonk and your on-bike food should keep
energy levels up. You didn't mention what you ate and drank BEFORE your
ride.

||
|| Questions: Am I eating enough?
||
|| Are there more digestible bars than Clif? I really want something
|| that digests and comes online as soon as possible. (I don't like
|| the GUs too much).

I take glucose tablets with me along with a Balance bar. I also drink
gatoraid.

||
|| Does anybody use one of those "musette" bags for food? (I bet if
|| food was easier to reach, in smaller bites, I would eat more
|| regularly during the ride.)
||
|| Dave

"Dave Stallard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I did a 90 mile ride on Saturday. I finished pretty strongly, but hit
the bonk in a couple of places in the middle - no power in my legs,
feeling unequal to any gradient, etc. Strangely, the same places I did
the last time, and not even steep hills.

I take Clif bars and Powerade in my water bottle. I love the taste of
Clif bars, but they don't sit well in my stomache while cycling.
Towards the end of the ride, I'll step up to one of the caffeinated "Ice
Series" Clif bars. I also use a GU gel pack for that one most
difficult moment. Total for the ride: 2.5 Clif bars, one 100 calorie
GU gel pack, and 40 ounces of Powerade, supplemented by probably 40-60
ounces of regular water.

Questions: Am I eating enough?

Sounds like about 1,000 calories, which seems reasonable for a ride that long.
Your initial glycogen reserves should be good for 60-70 miles at a very hard
pace (even longer for slower pace). After that, 500 calories/hr is about
right. I don't think you "bonked", your legs just got tired, bonking is quite
different, if you had, you'd remember it for a long time.

Quoted message said:

Are there more digestible bars than Clif?

Probably the wrapper it comes in.

Quoted message said:

I really want something that
digests and comes online as soon as possible. (I don't like the GUs too
much).

"Glycogen index" is a measure of how fast foods come online. Basically, you
want to eat an "anti-Atkins" diet. PB&J works well, as do virtually all the
non-greasy snack foods.

Quoted message said:

Does anybody use one of those "musette" bags for food? (I bet if food
was easier to reach, in smaller bites, I would eat more regularly during
the ride.)

Rear jersey pockets work to some extent, but for very long rides I use a small
bag that straps under my aerobars. Cutting up PB&J's works.

"Fx199" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: On-bike nutrition advice sought
From: Dave Stallard [email hidden]
Date: 7/20/2004 7:23 PM US Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

I did a 90 mile ride on Saturday. I finished pretty strongly, but hit
the bonk in a couple of places in the middle - no power in my legs,
feeling unequal to any gradient, etc. Strangely, the same places I did
the last time, and not even steep hills.

[snip]

I ride for 2-4 hours and never eat and barely drink Compared to whay I

read

Quoted message said:

other people need. My rides are anywhere from 20-50 miles. Seems like you
should be able to make it. Once in awhile I might bring a banana or a

piece of

Quoted message said:

jerky.
I eat and drink when I get back....

In my experience, 90 miles is completely different from 50 miles. It took
me a fifty mile ride before I even understood what bike shorts were for! I
could go 50 miles without eating, but I could not have a successful 90 mile
ride without anything. I doubt a banana or jerky would be very good in-ride
fuel for me. Powerbars work, but taste nasty. There's a pretty good deli
34 miles down the trail, which works as long as I don't have too much at
once.

--
+---- Kevin C. Saff ----+ F-15 | |Eagle
| Engineer, Boeing, StL | _____|_^_|_____
| Tracking/Fleet Support| * + [_(x)_] + *

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 20:23:31 -0400, Dave Stallard <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Are there more digestible bars than Clif? I really want something that
digests and comes online as soon as possible. (I don't like the GUs too
much).

There are thousands of recipes for energy bars, gels, and other
portable foods. A homemade food may be easier on your stomach; if
not, you can adjust the recipe until it is.

Quoted message said:

Does anybody use one of those "musette" bags for food? (I bet if food
was easier to reach, in smaller bites, I would eat more regularly during
the ride.)

Scroll down to the bottom and read at:
groups.google.com/groups?q=&selm=10ent8g9p93gud9%40corp.supernews.com
--
Rick Onanian

I forgot to mention in my last reply: Applesauce [including
"natural" versions without lots of added ingredients] comes in
single-serving packages. It should digest easily, unless you're
sensitive to acid. It ought to provide quick energy.
--
Rick Onanian

I generally aim for around 200 calories per hour (50 calories every 15
minutes), and you'd be pretty close to that on your ride. If your stomach
isn't tolerating the clif bars, it may be that you're eating too much at
once, you're working too hard to be able to digest much of anything, or they
just don't agree with you. I'd suggest trying some other bars.

Given that it's summertime, it may be that you're down on electrolytes. On
one of my long rides last month, I happened to buy a package of beef jerky
(over a gram of sodium), and felt much better later in that ride. I'd
suggest exploring something like that, given the amount of water you're
drinking.

It's possible you bonked lightly, but my experience in that is that it takes
a long time to recover (ie days, not minutes)

--
Eric Gunnerson

Visit the C# product team at http://www.csharp.net
Eric's blog is at http://weblogs.asp.net/ericgu/

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
"Dave Stallard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I did a 90 mile ride on Saturday. I finished pretty strongly, but hit
the bonk in a couple of places in the middle - no power in my legs,
feeling unequal to any gradient, etc. Strangely, the same places I did
the last time, and not even steep hills.

I take Clif bars and Powerade in my water bottle. I love the taste of
Clif bars, but they don't sit well in my stomache while cycling.
Towards the end of the ride, I'll step up to one of the caffeinated "Ice
Series" Clif bars. I also use a GU gel pack for that one most
difficult moment. Total for the ride: 2.5 Clif bars, one 100 calorie
GU gel pack, and 40 ounces of Powerade, supplemented by probably 40-60
ounces of regular water.

Questions: Am I eating enough?

Are there more digestible bars than Clif? I really want something that
digests and comes online as soon as possible. (I don't like the GUs too
much).

Does anybody use one of those "musette" bags for food? (I bet if food
was easier to reach, in smaller bites, I would eat more regularly during
the ride.)

Dave

Rick Onanian said:

I forgot to mention in my last reply: Applesauce [including
"natural" versions without lots of added ingredients] comes in
single-serving packages. It should digest easily, unless you're
sensitive to acid. It ought to provide quick energy.

Aye, and if you ARE sensitive to acid, it's a quick way to agony. Nothing
like heartburn to ruin a good ride.

Although, one 'Pepcid Complete' prior to a ride will stop/cure that better
than anything else I've found (and works for 24 hours as well.)

Regards,
H.

Eric Gunnerson said:

I generally aim for around 200 calories per hour (50 calories every 15
minutes), and you'd be pretty close to that on your ride. If your stomach
isn't tolerating the clif bars, it may be that you're eating too much at
once, you're working too hard to be able to digest much of anything, or
they
just don't agree with you. I'd suggest trying some other bars.

200 calories per hour? I average about 100 or less calories per hour.

--
Bob in CT
Remove ".x" to reply

Bob in CT said:

200 calories per hour? I average about 100 or less calories per hour.

It takes a while to figure out how many calories you need. Eat too
much, and you'll get stomach distress, nausea, gas, and maybe even
vomiting. Eat too little, and you'll bonk.

Food requirement depends somewhat on how you ride: average heart
rate, average cadence, etc.. I bonked recently at 6.5 hours into a
mountain bike ride, when I had been consuming 100 cal/hr. I'd been
riding in zone 3 (about 75% of max heart rate) for over 3 hours
straight. From what I've read, zone 3 riding can wipe out your
glycogen stores in as little as 2 hours. Lesson learned.

An emergency hit of Hammer Gel revived me in about 15 minutes. From
now on, I'm shooting for 200 calories per hour on all but short
rides.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

--
Eric Gunnerson

Visit the C# product team at http://www.csharp.net
Eric's blog is at http://weblogs.asp.net/ericgu/

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
"Bob in CT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Eric Gunnerson said:

I generally aim for around 200 calories per hour (50 calories every 15
minutes), and you'd be pretty close to that on your ride. If your

stomach

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

isn't tolerating the clif bars, it may be that you're eating too much at
once, you're working too hard to be able to digest much of anything, or
they
just don't agree with you. I'd suggest trying some other bars.

200 calories per hour? I average about 100 or less calories per hour.

Yep. But I generally do my long rides early in the morning, so I haven't
really had breakfast. I'll have something (a banana, some fruit), and then
I'll start eating after 30 minutes on the bike. It changes based on where I
am in the ride - I tend to be closer to 400 calories in the first couple of
hours, and then I drop down after that. I probably eat less than 200 on the
last hour.

Dave,
You did not eat enough for a 90 mile ride.

First, you can digest 3 grams of carbohydrates per pound of body
weight per hour, without slowing down peak athletic performance. Carbs
need to be matched to water best in a 6% to 8% ratio also to avoid
cramping, certainly thicker than 10% will slow you down.
The best way to do this is drink enough sports drink to get 3 grams
of carbs per hour per pound of body weight. There are lots of ways to
get carbs, but sports drinks are already in the optimum ratio and have
electrolytes.
Second, adding protein to a sport drink does increase endurance even
more:

my.webmd.com100586.htmOpen ↗

If your 90 mile ride is not a competitive race, drink Endurox R4 for
lunch (rest for 45 minutes), and also right at the end of the ride.

Cheers,
Bruce Freeburger
www.BIKESonTV.com

Dave Stallard said:

I did a 90 mile ride on Saturday. I finished pretty strongly, but hit
the bonk in a couple of places in the middle - no power in my legs,
feeling unequal to any gradient, etc. Strangely, the same places I did
the last time, and not even steep hills.

I take Clif bars and Powerade in my water bottle. I love the taste of
Clif bars, but they don't sit well in my stomache while cycling. Towards
the end of the ride, I'll step up to one of the caffeinated "Ice
Series" Clif bars. I also use a GU gel pack for that one most difficult
moment. Total for the ride: 2.5 Clif bars, one 100 calorie GU gel
pack, and 40 ounces of Powerade, supplemented by probably 40-60 ounces
of regular water.

Questions: Am I eating enough?

Are there more digestible bars than Clif? I really want something that
digests and comes online as soon as possible. (I don't like the GUs too
much).

Does anybody use one of those "musette" bags for food? (I bet if food
was easier to reach, in smaller bites, I would eat more regularly during
the ride.)

Dave

I've a fair bit of experience with unsupported ultra-long rides (200
miles+/400 kms) ; I find the camelbacks filled with water are great
for such rides; you can fill them right up with water and have a nice
constant supply for your ride; on my bike I'll carry 2 bottles of
water with extra-concentration of gatorade mix powder in them. I find
riding on an empty stomache works best for me with lots of water and
concentrated gatorade. I don't really suffer from hunger although I
will sometimes fantasize about whats in the fridge when I get home. It
works for me because the water and gatorade can get quickly into my
system when I need it, I don't get cramps and my breathing is not
hindered as when I have food in there. I found that energy bars etc.
don't hit the spot and in fact make me feel more hungry and tired. I
do most of my long rides on hot days, cold days you don't need to as
much water and should have some quick energy handy to stave off the
cold (eg a chocolate bar). I try not to stop at all- except at lights
or for a pee. It can be hard to get going after stoping to fix a flat
or a mech- but I make sure to take the time to ensure the job is done
right.If I am dying on the final run home (last 2 hrs ) I'll run into
a 7-11 and get a Big Gulp full of pepsi & ice- pour that in my water
bottle- shake- de-fizz it and drink real fast. The next 40 min or so
I'm like a rocket then I'm close enough to home.

"Eric Gunnerson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

--
Eric Gunnerson

Visit the C# product team at http://www.csharp.net
Eric's blog is at http://weblogs.asp.net/ericgu/

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
"Bob in CT" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Eric Gunnerson said:

I generally aim for around 200 calories per hour (50 calories every 15
minutes), and you'd be pretty close to that on your ride. If your

stomach

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

isn't tolerating the clif bars, it may be that you're eating too much at
once, you're working too hard to be able to digest much of anything, or
they
just don't agree with you. I'd suggest trying some other bars.

200 calories per hour? I average about 100 or less calories per hour.

Yep. But I generally do my long rides early in the morning, so I haven't
really had breakfast. I'll have something (a banana, some fruit), and then
I'll start eating after 30 minutes on the bike. It changes based on where I
am in the ride - I tend to be closer to 400 calories in the first couple of
hours, and then I drop down after that. I probably eat less than 200 on the
last hour.

Dave Stallard said:

I take Clif bars and Powerade in my water bottle. I love the taste of
Clif bars, but they don't sit well in my stomache while cycling.

I hear you. While I don't have any problems with Clif bars per se
(they're much yummier than the gooey PowerBars), long rides tend to make
me lose my appetite, sometimes to the point where I can't eat much of
anything.

Quoted message said:

Towards the end of the ride, I'll step up to one of the caffeinated "Ice
Series" Clif bars. I also use a GU gel pack for that one most

Are there more digestible bars than Clif? I really want something that
digests and comes online as soon as possible. (I don't like the GUs too
much).

Have you tried Clif Shot gel packs? I haven't tried GU, so I can't
compare, but I find Clif Shots (which are made of brown rice syrup)
quite easy to stomach. Two weeks ago, I was riding under the hot
afternoon sun, tired, hadn't eaten much, and past the point where even
nibbling on a Clif bar was too much for me. Yet I was able to sip on
one or two Clif Shots.

(Some flavors also come with caffeine -- strawberry and mocha, I think.)

Of course, the downside is that these things cost more money than bars
(which themselves cost more money than snacks, so it's all relative).
And you need to wash them down, which can be annoying when you've
already used up your water.

(Oh, and I also learned that carrying used wrappers next to your maps
in your handlebar bag can be messy.)
--
Frederic Briere <*> [email hidden]

=> <[email hidden]> IS NO MORE: <http://www.abacomsucks.com> <=

Quoted message said:

Subject: Re: On-bike nutrition advice sought
From: Frederic Briere [email hidden]
Date: 8/3/2004 7:03 PM US Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Dave Stallard said:

I take Clif bars and Powerade in my water bottle. I love the taste of
Clif bars, but they don't sit well in my stomache while cycling.

I hear you. While I don't have any problems with Clif bars per se
(they're much yummier than the gooey PowerBars), long rides tend to make
me lose my appetite, sometimes to the point where I can't eat much of
anything.

Quoted message said:

Towards the end of the ride, I'll step up to one of the caffeinated "Ice
Series" Clif bars. I also use a GU gel pack for that one most

Are there more digestible bars than Clif? I really want something that
digests and comes online as soon as possible. (I don't like the GUs too
much).

Have you tried Clif Shot gel packs? I haven't tried GU, so I can't
compare, but I find Clif Shots (which are made of brown rice syrup)
quite easy to stomach. Two weeks ago, I was riding under the hot
afternoon sun, tired, hadn't eaten much, and past the point where even
nibbling on a Clif bar was too much for me. Yet I was able to sip on
one or two Clif Shots.

(Some flavors also come with caffeine -- strawberry and mocha, I think.)

Of course, the downside is that these things cost more money than bars
(which themselves cost more money than snacks, so it's all relative).
And you need to wash them down, which can be annoying when you've
already used up your water.

(Oh, and I also learned that carrying used wrappers next to your maps
in your handlebar bag can be messy.)
--
Frederic Briere <*> [email hidden]

=> <[email hidden]> IS NO MORE: <http://www.abacomsucks.com> <=

Some people carry honey flasks...all natural and probably cheaper.

I prefer some jerky, banana or dried fruit. Maybe even a peanut butter
sandwich.