OLN's Excuse

Would you like some cheese with your whine?

"Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Velonews has some words from OLN president Gavin Harvey explaining the
reasons for dropping the Vuelta coverage.

Let me be the first to call "[censored]."

Harvey claims, in short, that the Vuelta just "under performs" and he

makes

Quoted message said:

more money rerunning American Shooter. Well, Mr. Harvey, publicly you
planned to carry the Vuelta until mid summer, but all the reasons you

cited

Quoted message said:

from not carrying the coverage were there a year ago. Something happened

in

Quoted message said:

the last few months that changed your mind, and you're not telling us what
it is. At least not directly. Here are the clues from what he does say.

"Cycling is more than just another bit of programming; it's a passion for
us. A lot of folks at OLN spent six weeks in France, working 20 hours a

day"

Quoted message said:

Translation: We shot our wad doing the "Tour de Lance" and through poor
planning (inaccurate cost/bene analysis) and [censored]-poor execution (Big Al,
Cutters, basically anything beside Phil and Paul), we didn't get the ROI

we

Quoted message said:

were expecting and now find ourselves in a financial hole.

"Harvey added that OLN's long-term plan with cycling programming is to

build

Quoted message said:

up the spring classics and the Giro d'Italia, both of which serve in its
build-up to the Tour de France, and focus more on domestic events."

Translation: We just heard that Lance is planning to concentrate on these
events (see story on cyclingnews.com) and so are we. We lack the talent

and

Quoted message said:

vision to target a potential market and develop it as a whole. We can

only

Quoted message said:

exploit the show-pony currently garnering public attention. When he goes,
so will our cycling coverage.

"Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Velonews has some words from OLN president Gavin Harvey explaining the
reasons for dropping the Vuelta coverage.

Let me be the first to call "[censored]."

Harvey claims, in short, that the Vuelta just "under performs" and he

makes

Quoted message said:

more money rerunning American Shooter. Well, Mr. Harvey, publicly you
planned to carry the Vuelta until mid summer, but all the reasons you

cited

Quoted message said:

from not carrying the coverage were there a year ago. Something happened

in

Quoted message said:

the last few months that changed your mind, and you're not telling us what
it is. At least not directly. Here are the clues from what he does say.

"Cycling is more than just another bit of programming; it's a passion for
us. A lot of folks at OLN spent six weeks in France, working 20 hours a

day"

Quoted message said:

Translation: We shot our wad doing the "Tour de Lance" and through poor
planning (inaccurate cost/bene analysis) and [censored]-poor execution (Big Al,
Cutters, basically anything beside Phil and Paul), we didn't get the ROI

we

Quoted message said:

were expecting and now find ourselves in a financial hole.

"Harvey added that OLN's long-term plan with cycling programming is to

build

Quoted message said:

up the spring classics and the Giro d'Italia, both of which serve in its
build-up to the Tour de France, and focus more on domestic events."

Translation: We just heard that Lance is planning to concentrate on these
events (see story on cyclingnews.com) and so are we. We lack the talent

and

Quoted message said:

vision to target a potential market and develop it as a whole. We can

only

Quoted message said:

exploit the show-pony currently garnering public attention. When he goes,
so will our cycling coverage.

That's the way to do it. Bite that hand. Give it a good rip. I'm sure
they really appreciate it when the reward for bringing us all the coverage
they do is getting ripped like this. I'd like to see the Vuelta, too. It
was especially awesome last year. But so it goes. It's OK to let them know
we're disappointed with their decision, but a little less venom would seem
to be in order for folks who have brought us out of the dark ages (here in
the states) of no coverage or worse -- espn/Adrian Karsten.

Bob C.

I posted this over on the OLN forum as well. I am perplexed about
OLN's choices as well. And no, I'm not 'biting the hand...' - facts
are facts.

The hours of racing shown on OLN peaked in 2002 and have dropped
steadily since then as have the number of different races shown
In 2001/2 we got to see at least a dedicated 1/2 hour of the
following: Housatonic Classic, Nature Valley GP, Paris-Tours,
Henninger Turm, Irvine Classic, Manhattan Beach GP, First Union.

# diff Unique
Year Races Hours
------- --------- ---------
2000 17 214.5
2001 30 523.5 Includes reair of 7 2000 races - 8hrs
2002 29 638 Includes reair of 4 2001 races - 113.5 hrs
2003 24 532 Includes reair of 1 2002 race - 12 hrs
2004 18 358

As a percentage of the total cycling coverage, OLN showed the following:
Race 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004
------- ------ ------ ------- ------ ------
Giro 75% 26% 19% 17% 21%
TDF 0* 33% 42% 55% 68%
Vuelta 4% 26% 21% 15% 0%
Other** 21% 15% 18% 13% 11%

*on ESPN that year.
**Other contains single-day races, Paris-Nice, etc. Back in 2000, 2001
OLN also showed alot of Mt Bike races but they are not included in these
totals.

None of these totals includes any of the 'Cutters' programs, SportsZone,
Road to the Tour, etc. It is strictly race coverage

I was willing to give OLN a break, after all they brought bike racing to
the US. I moved back here in 2000 after having Eurosport for a couple
of years. I was so happy that I would be able to continue to watch bike
racing.

Now, though, it appears OLN is going the way of CBS. Less coverage,
more [censored]. Witness the 'Tour Moments' with Sam Posey or that stupid
Cutters show, or the Lance Chronicles. God, what a bunch of garbage.

What amazes me is that OLN has built up a good viewership based
on bike racing. People want to watch. If you take OLN's own email
forum and look at the number of posts for bike racing vs. other sports
it seems obvious what the bulk of people are interested in. Either that
or cycling fans are more vocal or more inclined to use a computer vs.
your PBR/Gun/RV fan.

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Velonews has some words from OLN president Gavin Harvey explaining the
reasons for dropping the Vuelta coverage.

Let me be the first to call "[censored]."

Harvey claims, in short, that the Vuelta just "under performs" and he

makes

Quoted message said:

more money rerunning American Shooter. Well, Mr. Harvey, publicly you
planned to carry the Vuelta until mid summer, but all the reasons you

cited

Quoted message said:

from not carrying the coverage were there a year ago. Something happened

in

Quoted message said:

the last few months that changed your mind, and you're not telling us what
it is. At least not directly. Here are the clues from what he does say.

"Cycling is more than just another bit of programming; it's a passion for
us. A lot of folks at OLN spent six weeks in France, working 20 hours a

day"

Quoted message said:

Translation: We shot our wad doing the "Tour de Lance" and through poor
planning (inaccurate cost/bene analysis) and [censored]-poor execution (Big Al,
Cutters, basically anything beside Phil and Paul), we didn't get the ROI

we

Quoted message said:

were expecting and now find ourselves in a financial hole.

"Harvey added that OLN's long-term plan with cycling programming is to

build

Quoted message said:

up the spring classics and the Giro d'Italia, both of which serve in its
build-up to the Tour de France, and focus more on domestic events."

Translation: We just heard that Lance is planning to concentrate on these
events (see story on cyclingnews.com) and so are we. We lack the talent

and

Quoted message said:

vision to target a potential market and develop it as a whole. We can

only

Quoted message said:

exploit the show-pony currently garnering public attention. When he goes,
so will our cycling coverage.

That's the way to do it. Bite that hand. Give it a good rip. I'm sure
they really appreciate it when the reward for bringing us all the coverage
they do is getting ripped like this. I'd like to see the Vuelta, too. It
was especially awesome last year. But so it goes. It's OK to let them know
we're disappointed with their decision, but a little less venom would seem
to be in order for folks who have brought us out of the dark ages (here in
the states) of no coverage or worse -- espn/Adrian Karsten.

Bob C.

I posted this over on the OLN forum as well. I am perplexed about
OLN's choices as well. And no, I'm not 'biting the hand...' - facts
are facts.

The hours of racing shown on OLN peaked in 2002 and have dropped
steadily since then as have the number of different races shown
In 2001/2 we got to see at least a dedicated 1/2 hour of the
following: Housatonic Classic, Nature Valley GP, Paris-Tours,
Henninger Turm, Irvine Classic, Manhattan Beach GP, First Union.

# diff Unique
Year Races Hours
------- --------- ---------
2000 17 214.5
2001 30 523.5 Includes reair of 7 2000 races - 8hrs
2002 29 638 Includes reair of 4 2001 races - 113.5 hrs
2003 24 532 Includes reair of 1 2002 race - 12 hrs
2004 18 358

As a percentage of the total cycling coverage, OLN showed the following:
Race 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004
------- ------ ------ ------- ------ ------
Giro 75% 26% 19% 17% 21%
TDF 0* 33% 42% 55% 68%
Vuelta 4% 26% 21% 15% 0%
Other** 21% 15% 18% 13% 11%

*on ESPN that year.
**Other contains single-day races, Paris-Nice, etc. Back in 2000, 2001
OLN also showed alot of Mt Bike races but they are not included in these
totals.

None of these totals includes any of the 'Cutters' programs, SportsZone,
Road to the Tour, etc. It is strictly race coverage

I was willing to give OLN a break, after all they brought bike racing to
the US. I moved back here in 2000 after having Eurosport for a couple
of years. I was so happy that I would be able to continue to watch bike
racing.

Now, though, it appears OLN is going the way of CBS. Less coverage,
more [censored]. Witness the 'Tour Moments' with Sam Posey or that stupid
Cutters show, or the Lance Chronicles. God, what a bunch of garbage.

What amazes me is that OLN has built up a good viewership based
on bike racing. People want to watch. If you take OLN's own email
forum and look at the number of posts for bike racing vs. other sports
it seems obvious what the bulk of people are interested in. Either that
or cycling fans are more vocal or more inclined to use a computer vs.
your PBR/Gun/RV fan.

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Velonews has some words from OLN president Gavin Harvey explaining the
reasons for dropping the Vuelta coverage.

Let me be the first to call "[censored]."

Harvey claims, in short, that the Vuelta just "under performs" and he

makes

Quoted message said:

more money rerunning American Shooter. Well, Mr. Harvey, publicly you
planned to carry the Vuelta until mid summer, but all the reasons you

cited

Quoted message said:

from not carrying the coverage were there a year ago. Something happened

in

Quoted message said:

the last few months that changed your mind, and you're not telling us what
it is. At least not directly. Here are the clues from what he does say.

"Cycling is more than just another bit of programming; it's a passion for
us. A lot of folks at OLN spent six weeks in France, working 20 hours a

day"

Quoted message said:

Translation: We shot our wad doing the "Tour de Lance" and through poor
planning (inaccurate cost/bene analysis) and [censored]-poor execution (Big Al,
Cutters, basically anything beside Phil and Paul), we didn't get the ROI

we

Quoted message said:

were expecting and now find ourselves in a financial hole.

"Harvey added that OLN's long-term plan with cycling programming is to

build

Quoted message said:

up the spring classics and the Giro d'Italia, both of which serve in its
build-up to the Tour de France, and focus more on domestic events."

Translation: We just heard that Lance is planning to concentrate on these
events (see story on cyclingnews.com) and so are we. We lack the talent

and

Quoted message said:

vision to target a potential market and develop it as a whole. We can

only

Quoted message said:

exploit the show-pony currently garnering public attention. When he goes,
so will our cycling coverage.

That's the way to do it. Bite that hand. Give it a good rip. I'm sure
they really appreciate it when the reward for bringing us all the coverage
they do is getting ripped like this. I'd like to see the Vuelta, too. It
was especially awesome last year. But so it goes. It's OK to let them know
we're disappointed with their decision, but a little less venom would seem
to be in order for folks who have brought us out of the dark ages (here in
the states) of no coverage or worse -- espn/Adrian Karsten.

Bob C.

psycholist said:

That's the way to do it. Bite that hand. Give it a good rip. I'm sure
they really appreciate it when the reward for bringing us all the coverage
they do is getting ripped like this. I'd like to see the Vuelta, too. It
was especially awesome last year. But so it goes. It's OK to let them know
we're disappointed with their decision, but a little less venom would seem
to be in order for folks who have brought us out of the dark ages (here in
the states) of no coverage or worse -- espn/Adrian Karsten.

Bob C.

Nope. We're the consumers, their customers. OLN exists to make us happy.
That there aren't enough of us (allegedly) to make their numbers work to
their satisfaction doesn't mean for a second that we shouldn't voice our
feelings as strongly held as they happen to be.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

"pddebacker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I posted this over on the OLN forum as well. I am perplexed about
OLN's choices as well. And no, I'm not 'biting the hand...' - facts
are facts.

The hours of racing shown on OLN peaked in 2002 and have dropped
steadily since then as have the number of different races shown
In 2001/2 we got to see at least a dedicated 1/2 hour of the
following: Housatonic Classic, Nature Valley GP, Paris-Tours,
Henninger Turm, Irvine Classic, Manhattan Beach GP, First Union.

# diff Unique
Year Races Hours
------- --------- ---------
2000 17 214.5
2001 30 523.5 Includes reair of 7 2000 races - 8hrs
2002 29 638 Includes reair of 4 2001 races - 113.5 hrs
2003 24 532 Includes reair of 1 2002 race - 12 hrs
2004 18 358

As a percentage of the total cycling coverage, OLN showed the following:
Race 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004
------- ------ ------ ------- ------ ------
Giro 75% 26% 19% 17% 21%
TDF 0* 33% 42% 55% 68%
Vuelta 4% 26% 21% 15% 0%
Other** 21% 15% 18% 13% 11%

*on ESPN that year.
**Other contains single-day races, Paris-Nice, etc. Back in 2000, 2001
OLN also showed alot of Mt Bike races but they are not included in these
totals.

None of these totals includes any of the 'Cutters' programs, SportsZone,
Road to the Tour, etc. It is strictly race coverage

I was willing to give OLN a break, after all they brought bike racing to
the US. I moved back here in 2000 after having Eurosport for a couple
of years. I was so happy that I would be able to continue to watch bike
racing.

Now, though, it appears OLN is going the way of CBS. Less coverage,
more [censored]. Witness the 'Tour Moments' with Sam Posey or that stupid
Cutters show, or the Lance Chronicles. God, what a bunch of garbage.

What amazes me is that OLN has built up a good viewership based
on bike racing. People want to watch. If you take OLN's own email
forum and look at the number of posts for bike racing vs. other sports
it seems obvious what the bulk of people are interested in. Either that
or cycling fans are more vocal or more inclined to use a computer vs.
your PBR/Gun/RV fan.

"psycholist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Velonews has some words from OLN president Gavin Harvey explaining the
reasons for dropping the Vuelta coverage.

Let me be the first to call "[censored]."

Harvey claims, in short, that the Vuelta just "under performs" and he

makes

Quoted message said:

more money rerunning American Shooter. Well, Mr. Harvey, publicly

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

planned to carry the Vuelta until mid summer, but all the reasons you

cited

Quoted message said:

from not carrying the coverage were there a year ago. Something

happened

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in

Quoted message said:

the last few months that changed your mind, and you're not telling us

what

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it is. At least not directly. Here are the clues from what he does

say.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"Cycling is more than just another bit of programming; it's a passion

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

us. A lot of folks at OLN spent six weeks in France, working 20 hours

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

day"

Quoted message said:

Translation: We shot our wad doing the "Tour de Lance" and through

poor

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

planning (inaccurate cost/bene analysis) and [censored]-poor execution (Big

Al,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Cutters, basically anything beside Phil and Paul), we didn't get the

ROI

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

we

Quoted message said:

were expecting and now find ourselves in a financial hole.

"Harvey added that OLN's long-term plan with cycling programming is to

build

Quoted message said:

up the spring classics and the Giro d'Italia, both of which serve in

its

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

build-up to the Tour de France, and focus more on domestic events."

Translation: We just heard that Lance is planning to concentrate on

these

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

events (see story on cyclingnews.com) and so are we. We lack the

talent

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and

Quoted message said:

vision to target a potential market and develop it as a whole. We can

only

Quoted message said:

exploit the show-pony currently garnering public attention. When he

goes,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

so will our cycling coverage.

That's the way to do it. Bite that hand. Give it a good rip. I'm sure
they really appreciate it when the reward for bringing us all the

coverage

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they do is getting ripped like this. I'd like to see the Vuelta, too.

It

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was especially awesome last year. But so it goes. It's OK to let them

know

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

we're disappointed with their decision, but a little less venom would

seem

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to be in order for folks who have brought us out of the dark ages (here

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the states) of no coverage or worse -- espn/Adrian Karsten.

Bob C.

When Lance is gone, expect the Berlin wall to be rebuilt, but this time
between Europe and the US.

Bestest Handsander said:

Velonews has some words from OLN president Gavin Harvey explaining the
reasons for dropping the Vuelta coverage.

Quoted message said:

Let me be the first to call "[censored]."

Quoted message said:

Harvey claims, in short, that the Vuelta just "under performs" and he makes
more money rerunning American Shooter. Well, Mr. Harvey, publicly you
planned to carry the Vuelta until mid summer, but all the reasons you cited
from not carrying the coverage were there a year ago. Something happened in
the last few months that changed your mind, and you're not telling us what
it is. At least not directly. Here are the clues from what he does say.

Quoted message said:

"Cycling is more than just another bit of programming; it's a passion for
us. A lot of folks at OLN spent six weeks in France, working 20 hours a day"

Quoted message said:

Translation: We shot our wad doing the "Tour de Lance" and through poor
planning (inaccurate cost/bene analysis) and [censored]-poor execution (Big Al,
Cutters, basically anything beside Phil and Paul), we didn't get the ROI we
were expecting and now find ourselves in a financial hole.

Quoted message said:

"Harvey added that OLN's long-term plan with cycling programming is to build
up the spring classics and the Giro d'Italia, both of which serve in its
build-up to the Tour de France, and focus more on domestic events."

Quoted message said:

Translation: We just heard that Lance is planning to concentrate on these
events (see story on cyclingnews.com) and so are we. We lack the talent and
vision to target a potential market and develop it as a whole. We can only
exploit the show-pony currently garnering public attention. When he goes,
so will our cycling coverage.

If he's planning to build up the Spring Classics, why'd he turn this
year's P-R into a CBS one hour highlite? This was a downgrade from P-R
being showcased as proof OLN could show live coverage prior to their
taking on the TdF. Be sure that Harvey is a liar. Cancel subscriptions,
that's a language he'll understand.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's the way to do it. Bite that hand. Give it a good rip. I'm sure
they really appreciate it when the reward for bringing us all the

coverage

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they do is getting ripped like this. I'd like to see the Vuelta, too.

It

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was especially awesome last year. But so it goes. It's OK to let them

know

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

we're disappointed with their decision, but a little less venom would

seem

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to be in order for folks who have brought us out of the dark ages (here

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the states) of no coverage or worse -- espn/Adrian Karsten.

Bob C.

Nope. We're the consumers, their customers. OLN exists to make us happy.
That there aren't enough of us (allegedly) to make their numbers work to
their satisfaction doesn't mean for a second that we shouldn't voice our
feelings as strongly held as they happen to be.

If the goal is to get more cycling coverage on OLN, then it's best to phrase
arguments in a manner that relates to their bottom line. They've said that
the TDF is their crown jewel, the event that pays the bills. Berating them
for not covering the Vuelta, not to mention their fixation with Lance (both
of which have to do with their bottom line), is only going to create
ill-will. A better tactic would be to show them how the Vuelta leads into
the TDF route announcement shortly thereafter, and add further continuity by
pointing out how some riders trained to peak for the Vuelta and not the TDF.
Essentially accept that the world revolves around the TDF and use that to
our advantage, rather than as a whipping boy.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Let's face it folks; OLN is in the same boat now as any other major
cable channel: when they were smaller the cycling shows built up an
audience for the channel, so lack of profitability was a bit better to
swallow. Now that they're bigger, they have to pick and choose what
they show in order to pay the bills.

I too am disappointed that the Vuelta will not be shown. And for
years of crying to my cable company to carry OLN, I don't feel the
need to do that anymore because the cycling coverage has clearly
peaked and is headed down. But if you want to see extensive cycling
coverage for the long term, move to Europe. Cycling is just not
popular here, and will never be in a position to garner the television
coverage that the mainstream and top-of-the-fringe sports can afford.

Alan

"Bestest Handsander" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Velonews has some words from OLN president Gavin Harvey explaining the
reasons for dropping the Vuelta coverage.

Let me be the first to call "[censored]."

Harvey claims, in short, that the Vuelta just "under performs" and he makes
more money rerunning American Shooter. Well, Mr. Harvey, publicly you
planned to carry the Vuelta until mid summer, but all the reasons you cited
from not carrying the coverage were there a year ago. Something happened in
the last few months that changed your mind, and you're not telling us what
it is. At least not directly. Here are the clues from what he does say.

"Cycling is more than just another bit of programming; it's a passion for
us. A lot of folks at OLN spent six weeks in France, working 20 hours a day"

Translation: We shot our wad doing the "Tour de Lance" and through poor
planning (inaccurate cost/bene analysis) and [censored]-poor execution (Big Al,
Cutters, basically anything beside Phil and Paul), we didn't get the ROI we
were expecting and now find ourselves in a financial hole.

"Harvey added that OLN's long-term plan with cycling programming is to build
up the spring classics and the Giro d'Italia, both of which serve in its
build-up to the Tour de France, and focus more on domestic events."

Translation: We just heard that Lance is planning to concentrate on these
events (see story on cyclingnews.com) and so are we. We lack the talent and
vision to target a potential market and develop it as a whole. We can only
exploit the show-pony currently garnering public attention. When he goes,
so will our cycling coverage.

(Alan Atwood) said:

Let's face it folks; OLN is in the same boat now as any other major
cable channel: when they were smaller the cycling shows built up an
audience for the channel, so lack of profitability was a bit better to
swallow. Now that they're bigger, they have to pick and choose what
they show in order to pay the bills.

I too am disappointed that the Vuelta will not be shown. And for
years of crying to my cable company to carry OLN, I don't feel the
need to do that anymore because the cycling coverage has clearly
peaked and is headed down. But if you want to see extensive cycling
coverage for the long term, move to Europe. Cycling is just not
popular here, and will never be in a position to garner the television
coverage that the mainstream and top-of-the-fringe sports can afford.

``If it's got a Ball, we show it All'', right?

--
le Vent a Dos, Davey Crockett
Six Day Site: http://members.rogers.com/sixday/sixday.html

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Translation: We shot our wad doing the "Tour de Lance" and through poor
planning (inaccurate cost/bene analysis) and [censored]-poor execution (Big Al,
Cutters, basically anything beside Phil and Paul), we didn't get the ROI we
were expecting and now find ourselves in a financial hole.

this is probably right. The money they spent on the stupid cyclism commercials
could have paid for some good Vuelta coverage. Not to mention the stupid
cutters programming.
--------------
Alex

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

That's the way to do it. Bite that hand. Give it a good rip. I'm sure
they really appreciate it when the reward for bringing us all the coverage
they do is getting ripped like this. I'd like to see the Vuelta, too. It
was especially awesome last year. But so it goes. It's OK to let them know
we're disappointed with their decision, but a little less venom would seem
to be in order for folks who have brought us out of the dark ages (here in
the states) of no coverage or worse -- espn/Adrian Karsten.

You make it sound like they are doing us a selfless favor. They have gotten
all time high ratings with the TDF coverage. That means they get to charge
their advertisers more money. They are in it for the profit. You would think
they could figure out that they should try to keep that same audience by
catering to what they want to see. No one is asking for the practically 24/7
cycling coverage they gave the TDF. Taped covergae of a couple of hours every
night is plenty for most fans of the sport.
-------------
Alex

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's the way to do it. Bite that hand. Give it a good rip. I'm sure
they really appreciate it when the reward for bringing us all the

coverage

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

they do is getting ripped like this. I'd like to see the Vuelta, too.

It

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was especially awesome last year. But so it goes. It's OK to let them

know

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

we're disappointed with their decision, but a little less venom would

seem

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to be in order for folks who have brought us out of the dark ages (here

in

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the states) of no coverage or worse -- espn/Adrian Karsten.

Bob C.

Nope. We're the consumers, their customers. OLN exists to make us happy.
That there aren't enough of us (allegedly) to make their numbers work to
their satisfaction doesn't mean for a second that we shouldn't voice our
feelings as strongly held as they happen to be.

Quoted message said:

If the goal is to get more cycling coverage on OLN, then it's best to phrase
arguments in a manner that relates to their bottom line. They've said that
the TDF is their crown jewel, the event that pays the bills. Berating them

So, subscribe for the TdF, unsubscribe when it's over. Tell them you'd
extend were they showing more biking...

Quoted message said:

for not covering the Vuelta, not to mention their fixation with Lance (both
of which have to do with their bottom line), is only going to create
ill-will. A better tactic would be to show them how the Vuelta leads into
the TDF route announcement shortly thereafter, and add further continuity by
pointing out how some riders trained to peak for the Vuelta and not the TDF.
Essentially accept that the world revolves around the TDF and use that to
our advantage, rather than as a whipping boy.

Quoted message said:

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

(Alan Atwood) said:

But if you want to see extensive cycling
coverage for the long term, move to Europe. Cycling is just not
popular here, and will never be in a position to garner the television
coverage that the mainstream and top-of-the-fringe sports can afford

Is cycling coverage really less popular than hunting and fishing shows?
Hard to imagine. Really hard.

But why does cycling coverage have to be expensive to produce? Cant OLN
contract with some european network to basically take their program (english
language if possible, then no OLN commentators necessary...do the Aussies or
British cover the big three?) and just [censored] show it. I dont need Phil
and company (although he is great), and we can all live without
Trouthead...I just want to see the drama that is pro-cycling. And we dont
need the other fluff. If you were a european company spending cash to cover
the cycling, wouldnt you jump at selling the coverage to a foriegn
audience...even at a low price? Nothing to lose, there. It's not like you
have to build more units or open another factory. There would be virtually
no marginal cost.

Or, for that matter, with all the specialized, small audience programming on
cable/satelite (food network, House and Garden, Animal Planet, ESPN Classic,
Do it Yourself Channel, History Channel...I mean, how many viewers do these
programming giants garner?), why not a [censored] cycling channel? They could
cover the domestic Mtn, track (much easier to cover, that), and road bike
scene as well as european pro RR (in the cheapo fashion described above),
and even show classic cycling films like "A Sunday in Hell" or "Six Day
Bicycle Racer".

Yes, I'm dreaming...but it all seems so possible.

steve
--
"A man was severely injured today in the Knutsford area."

Benny Hill

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
says...

Quoted message said:

So, subscribe for the TdF, unsubscribe when it's over. Tell them you'd
extend were they showing more biking...

I would do this if I could do single channel add and drops. Unfortunately
the package that includes OLN has a few other channels that we watch quite
frequently in my home, so it is not that easy.
--------------
Alex

"steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Alan Atwood) said:

But if you want to see extensive cycling
coverage for the long term, move to Europe. Cycling is just not
popular here, and will never be in a position to garner the television
coverage that the mainstream and top-of-the-fringe sports can afford

Is cycling coverage really less popular than hunting and fishing shows?
Hard to imagine. Really hard.

But why does cycling coverage have to be expensive to produce? Cant OLN
contract with some european network to basically take their program

(english

Quoted message said:

language if possible, then no OLN commentators necessary...do the Aussies

or

Quoted message said:

British cover the big three?) and just [censored] show it. I dont need Phil
and company (although he is great), and we can all live without
Trouthead...I just want to see the drama that is pro-cycling. And we dont
need the other fluff. If you were a european company spending cash to

cover

Quoted message said:

the cycling, wouldnt you jump at selling the coverage to a foriegn
audience...even at a low price? Nothing to lose, there. It's not like

you

Quoted message said:

have to build more units or open another factory. There would be

virtually

Quoted message said:

no marginal cost.

Or, for that matter, with all the specialized, small audience programming

on

Quoted message said:

cable/satelite (food network, House and Garden, Animal Planet, ESPN

Classic,

Quoted message said:

Do it Yourself Channel, History Channel...I mean, how many viewers do

these

Quoted message said:

programming giants garner?), why not a [censored] cycling channel? They

could

Quoted message said:

cover the domestic Mtn, track (much easier to cover, that), and road bike
scene as well as european pro RR (in the cheapo fashion described above),
and even show classic cycling films like "A Sunday in Hell" or "Six Day
Bicycle Racer".

Maybe not a cycling channel, but how about a channel devoted to endurance
sports, like cycling, triathlons, marathons, mtb. Or a channel devoted to
euro-sports. In europe, eurosport shows plenty of stuff aside from cycling,
and some of it would be things that aren't popular here, like handball. But
rugby is popular here, that could be included.