Okay - If Lance Isn't On Dope....?

[John Forrest Tomlinson]

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:44:42 -0500, "hold my beer and watch this..."
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Then what explanation is there for him chasing down Simeoni?
>
>Maybe you could make the argument that the reason is the lawsuit alone, but
>it sure looks to me like he's trying to shut him up.

If someone was ****ing with you for something you didn't do, wouldn't
it be great if you could screw them over legally. If Lance is clean,
that's a good explanation.

JT

 

[benjo maso]

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yeah.
>
> To play devil's advocate, what if you were clean, and every goddamn day of
> your life, you had to deal with people saying that you were on dope,
riding
> over climbs painted 'Lance EPO,' and listening to people like Bassons and
> Simeoni saying **** like 'you can't win the tour unless you're on drugs.'


Neither Bassons nor Simeoni ever said that.

Benjo Maso

 

[benjo maso]

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yeah.
>
> To play devil's advocate, what if you were clean, and every goddamn day of
> your life, you had to deal with people saying that you were on dope,
riding
> over climbs painted 'Lance EPO,' and listening to people like Bassons and
> Simeoni saying **** like 'you can't win the tour unless you're on drugs.'


Neither Bassons nor Simeoni ever said that.

Benjo Maso

 

[Ernst Noch]

John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:

> On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:44:42 -0500, "hold my beer and watch this..."
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Then what explanation is there for him chasing down Simeoni?
>>
>>Maybe you could make the argument that the reason is the lawsuit alone, but
>>it sure looks to me like he's trying to shut him up.
>
>
> If someone was ****ing with you for something you didn't do, wouldn't
> it be great if you could screw them over legally.

LA said Simeoni is lying, Simeoni thinks he didn't do that, and has sued
LA. Exactly like you describe.

>If Lance is clean, that's a good explanation.

No, it isn't (see above). But as I wrote in another post, if you want to
"silence" a whistleblower, you wouldn't do that in front of several
hundrets of millions witnesses.

What remains for me is that either it was not about doping, just the
suing by Simeoni, and Lance is a little bit hot headed (though he did
say that Simeoni is a "rider like any other" and it weren't personal
when Simeoni got away in that other stage)
The other one is that it is about doping, and Lance has just the hubris
to ignore the cameras for such an action.

I hope we'll find out.

 

[benjo maso]

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Yeah.
> > >
> > > To play devil's advocate, what if you were clean, and every goddamn
day
> of
> > > your life, you had to deal with people saying that you were on dope,
> > riding
> > > over climbs painted 'Lance EPO,' and listening to people like Bassons
> and
> > > Simeoni saying **** like 'you can't win the tour unless you're on
> drugs.'
> >
> >
> > Neither Bassons nor Simeoni ever said that.
> >
> > Benjo Maso
> >
>
> Whatever, essentially that's what they were saying...

Absolutely not.

Benjo Maso

 

[Shayne Wissler]

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I really is interesting. I just wish I really knew whether or not the guy
> was on ****ing dope or not...

Just because someone accuses Lance of doping doesn't mean it should put a
question mark on your mind. With that kind of standard everyone is a suspect
for every kind of crime because there are nutcases out there crazy enough to
accuse anyone of anything. Those making accusations without evidence should
be ignored: it is injustice to the innocent to give any weight at all to
their claims.

> To play devil's advocate, what if you were clean, and every goddamn day of
> your life, you had to deal with people saying that you were on dope,
riding
> over climbs painted 'Lance EPO,' and listening to people like Bassons and
> Simeoni saying **** like 'you can't win the tour unless you're on drugs.'
>
> I guess you could see how that would really **** you off and inspire you
to
> go after those people.

A very good point.


Shayne Wissler

 

[hold my beer and watch this...]

Then what explanation is there for him chasing down Simeoni?

Maybe you could make the argument that the reason is the lawsuit alone, but
it sure looks to me like he's trying to shut him up.

Just like he tried to shut up Bassons.

 

[hold my beer and watch this...]

Yeah.

To play devil's advocate, what if you were clean, and every goddamn day of
your life, you had to deal with people saying that you were on dope, riding
over climbs painted 'Lance EPO,' and listening to people like Bassons and
Simeoni saying **** like 'you can't win the tour unless you're on drugs.'

I guess you could see how that would really **** you off and inspire you to
go after those people.

I really is interesting. I just wish I really knew whether or not the guy
was on ****ing dope or not...


"John Forrest Tomlinson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 17:44:42 -0500, "hold my beer and watch this..."
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Then what explanation is there for him chasing down Simeoni?
> >
> >Maybe you could make the argument that the reason is the lawsuit alone,
but
> >it sure looks to me like he's trying to shut him up.
>
> If someone was ****ing with you for something you didn't do, wouldn't
> it be great if you could screw them over legally. If Lance is clean,
> that's a good explanation.
>
> JT

 

[hold my beer and watch this...]

"benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Yeah.
> >
> > To play devil's advocate, what if you were clean, and every goddamn day
of
> > your life, you had to deal with people saying that you were on dope,
> riding
> > over climbs painted 'Lance EPO,' and listening to people like Bassons
and
> > Simeoni saying **** like 'you can't win the tour unless you're on
drugs.'
>
>
> Neither Bassons nor Simeoni ever said that.
>
> Benjo Maso
>

Whatever, essentially that's what they were saying...

 

[hold my beer and watch this...]

Okay there, Benji, what the **** WERE they saying then?

Do you know that you're named after an annoying little mutt?


"benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > Yeah.
> > > >
> > > > To play devil's advocate, what if you were clean, and every goddamn
> day
> > of
> > > > your life, you had to deal with people saying that you were on dope,
> > > riding
> > > > over climbs painted 'Lance EPO,' and listening to people like
Bassons
> > and
> > > > Simeoni saying **** like 'you can't win the tour unless you're on
> > drugs.'
> > >
> > >
> > > Neither Bassons nor Simeoni ever said that.
> > >
> > > Benjo Maso
> > >
> >
> > Whatever, essentially that's what they were saying...
>
> Absolutely not.
>
> Benjo Maso
>
>
>

 

[benjo maso]

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Okay there, Benji, what the **** WERE they saying then?

Making such a statement, the burden of proof is of course yours. If you want
to play the advocate of the devil, the least you can do is coming up with
some solid evidence. But in a few words: Basson's only sin was that the
journalists discovered him during the great scandal of 1998 als a
Festina-rider who never used doping. He even got a column in a French
newspaper in which he hardly ever wrote about drugs. But the simple fact
that he was treated as `the man who never takes drugs' was of course
annoying for the rest of the peloton (although Bassons emphasized again and
again he wasn't the only one).
Simeoni's sin was quite different: not that he spilled the beans. Zülle,
Dufaux, Moreau, etc. did the same and nobody blamed them. Even Virenque -
never very popular among the riders - was received with open arms when he
returned in the peloton. The difference was that they were caught red-handed
and forced to make a confession, when Simeoni volunteered information. He
never tested positive on epo, but nevertheless confessed he had used it (and
he and the mountain-biker Jerome Chiotti are the only pro's who ever did
such a thing). He didn't denounce other riders and never even suggested that
Armstrong or anybodt else must be on drugs to perform so well. Yet many
riders are treating him as an untouchable.

> Do you know that you're named after an annoying little mutt?

No, I wasn't. And my name isn't Benji.

Benjo Maso

 

[Dave H]

"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yeah.
>
> To play devil's advocate, what if you were clean, and every goddamn day of
> your life, you had to deal with people saying that you were on dope,
riding
> over climbs painted 'Lance EPO,' and listening to people like Bassons and
> Simeoni saying **** like 'you can't win the tour unless you're on drugs.'
>
> I guess you could see how that would really **** you off and inspire you
to
> go after those people.
>
> I really is interesting. I just wish I really knew whether or not the guy
> was on ****ing dope or not...


Who cares if he is? Me personally I wouldn't care one way or the other, as
long as there is pro sports and money there will be doping and new ways to
dope, get over it
Dave

 

[Hank Sniadoch]

Oh, I don't know whether you're on dope or not ?? So should I even listen
to your post ??
"hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Asswipe,
>
> Maybe you can't read, but the whole point of this thread was that I don't
> know if armstrong is on dope or not. I was speculating on his behavior,
> based on either scenario.
>
> Maybe you really are that dog...
>
>
> "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Okay there, Benji, what the **** WERE they saying then?
> >
> > Making such a statement, the burden of proof is of course yours. If you
> want
> > to play the advocate of the devil, the least you can do is coming up
with
> > some solid evidence. But in a few words: Basson's only sin was that the
> > journalists discovered him during the great scandal of 1998 als a
> > Festina-rider who never used doping. He even got a column in a French
> > newspaper in which he hardly ever wrote about drugs. But the simple fact
> > that he was treated as `the man who never takes drugs' was of course
> > annoying for the rest of the peloton (although Bassons emphasized again
> and
> > again he wasn't the only one).
> > Simeoni's sin was quite different: not that he spilled the beans.
> Zülle,
> > Dufaux, Moreau, etc. did the same and nobody blamed them. Even
Virenque -
> > never very popular among the riders - was received with open arms when
he
> > returned in the peloton. The difference was that they were caught
> red-handed
> > and forced to make a confession, when Simeoni volunteered information.
He
> > never tested positive on epo, but nevertheless confessed he had used it
> (and
> > he and the mountain-biker Jerome Chiotti are the only pro's who ever did
> > such a thing). He didn't denounce other riders and never even suggested
> that
> > Armstrong or anybodt else must be on drugs to perform so well. Yet many
> > riders are treating him as an untouchable.
> >
> > > Do you know that you're named after an annoying little mutt?
> >
> > No, I wasn't. And my name isn't Benji.
> >
> > Benjo Maso
> >
> >
>
>

 

[Clovis Lark]

benjo maso <[email protected]> wrote:

> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Yeah.
>>
>> To play devil's advocate, what if you were clean, and every goddamn day of
>> your life, you had to deal with people saying that you were on dope,
> riding
>> over climbs painted 'Lance EPO,' and listening to people like Bassons and
>> Simeoni saying **** like 'you can't win the tour unless you're on drugs.'


> Neither Bassons nor Simeoni ever said that.

Exactly. Most of the blather here sounds like Limbaugh or O'Reilley
(however you spell the lying *****'s name). For those in Europe and
elsewhere, these are 2 fat guys who spend their waking hours cheering
americans on to spite others based on lies.

> Benjo Maso

 

[Clovis Lark]

hold my beer and watch this... <[email protected]> wrote:
> Okay there, Benji, what the **** WERE they saying then?

Maso is at least knowledgeable in this sport. Who are you?

> Do you know that you're named after an annoying little mutt?

And there you have it...

> "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> > "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> > >
>> > > "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > > news:[email protected]...
>> > > > Yeah.
>> > > >
>> > > > To play devil's advocate, what if you were clean, and every goddamn
>> day
>> > of
>> > > > your life, you had to deal with people saying that you were on dope,
>> > > riding
>> > > > over climbs painted 'Lance EPO,' and listening to people like
> Bassons
>> > and
>> > > > Simeoni saying **** like 'you can't win the tour unless you're on
>> > drugs.'
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Neither Bassons nor Simeoni ever said that.
>> > >
>> > > Benjo Maso
>> > >
>> >
>> > Whatever, essentially that's what they were saying...
>>
>> Absolutely not.
>>
>> Benjo Maso
>>
>>
>>

 

[Clovis Lark]

benjo maso <[email protected]> wrote:

> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Okay there, Benji, what the **** WERE they saying then?

> Making such a statement, the burden of proof is of course yours. If you want
> to play the advocate of the devil, the least you can do is coming up with
> some solid evidence. But in a few words: Basson's only sin was that the
> journalists discovered him during the great scandal of 1998 als a
> Festina-rider who never used doping. He even got a column in a French
> newspaper in which he hardly ever wrote about drugs. But the simple fact
> that he was treated as `the man who never takes drugs' was of course
> annoying for the rest of the peloton (although Bassons emphasized again and
> again he wasn't the only one).
> Simeoni's sin was quite different: not that he spilled the beans. Zülle,
> Dufaux, Moreau, etc. did the same and nobody blamed them. Even Virenque -
> never very popular among the riders - was received with open arms when he
> returned in the peloton. The difference was that they were caught red-handed
> and forced to make a confession, when Simeoni volunteered information. He
> never tested positive on epo, but nevertheless confessed he had used it (and
> he and the mountain-biker Jerome Chiotti are the only pro's who ever did
> such a thing). He didn't denounce other riders and never even suggested that
> Armstrong or anybodt else must be on drugs to perform so well. Yet many
> riders are treating him as an untouchable.

>> Do you know that you're named after an annoying little mutt?

> No, I wasn't. And my name isn't Benji.

> Benjo Maso

Bravo, well done...

 

[Clovis Lark]

hold my beer and watch this... <[email protected]> wrote:

> Asswipe,

> Maybe you can't read, but the whole point of this thread was that I don't
> know if armstrong is on dope or not. I was speculating on his behavior,
> based on either scenario.

> Maybe you really are that dog...

Whoever you are, and we note your anonymity, Maso has no need to defend
his credentials with such as you.


> "benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Okay there, Benji, what the **** WERE they saying then?
>>
>> Making such a statement, the burden of proof is of course yours. If you
> want
>> to play the advocate of the devil, the least you can do is coming up with
>> some solid evidence. But in a few words: Basson's only sin was that the
>> journalists discovered him during the great scandal of 1998 als a
>> Festina-rider who never used doping. He even got a column in a French
>> newspaper in which he hardly ever wrote about drugs. But the simple fact
>> that he was treated as `the man who never takes drugs' was of course
>> annoying for the rest of the peloton (although Bassons emphasized again
> and
>> again he wasn't the only one).
>> Simeoni's sin was quite different: not that he spilled the beans.
> Zülle,
>> Dufaux, Moreau, etc. did the same and nobody blamed them. Even Virenque -
>> never very popular among the riders - was received with open arms when he
>> returned in the peloton. The difference was that they were caught
> red-handed
>> and forced to make a confession, when Simeoni volunteered information. He
>> never tested positive on epo, but nevertheless confessed he had used it
> (and
>> he and the mountain-biker Jerome Chiotti are the only pro's who ever did
>> such a thing). He didn't denounce other riders and never even suggested
> that
>> Armstrong or anybodt else must be on drugs to perform so well. Yet many
>> riders are treating him as an untouchable.
>>
>> > Do you know that you're named after an annoying little mutt?
>>
>> No, I wasn't. And my name isn't Benji.
>>
>> Benjo Maso
>>
>>

 

[Sierraman]

"Dave H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Yeah.
> >
> > To play devil's advocate, what if you were clean, and every goddamn day
of
> > your life, you had to deal with people saying that you were on dope,
> riding
> > over climbs painted 'Lance EPO,' and listening to people like Bassons
and
> > Simeoni saying **** like 'you can't win the tour unless you're on
drugs.'
> >
> > I guess you could see how that would really **** you off and inspire you
> to
> > go after those people.
> >
> > I really is interesting. I just wish I really knew whether or not the
guy
> > was on ****ing dope or not...
>
>
> Who cares if he is? Me personally I wouldn't care one way or the other, as
> long as there is pro sports and money there will be doping and new ways to
> dope, get over it
> Dave

I agree. I can't hardly even find the time to keep up with what's current
and who winning races, new riders and such to spend too much time worrying
about who's doping. I'll leave that to BL to sniff it out. I just enjoy
races, the riders and how they won them. If we focus too much time trying to
figure out who's doping then we are wasting the time that was set aside to
enjoy sports. Of course this stuff is fun for some like BL, but I don't care
as much. Jeanson was a sideshow but that's not good for womens cycling
either. I don't know what Lance was doing but this stuff that Greg is doing
takes away from cycling and gives it a black eye just when it's at it's
height of popularity in America. Networks have been sniffing out this EPO
Lance **** and that's no way to celebrate a record six tour wins. Makes him
look like he cheated. Lance should be considered clean until proven dirty.
Keeping this stuff quiet for now is better then what Greg is doing. We
should build on the success of Lance for the good of the sport of cycling,
and drug scandels should be back page news, not front page. It won't be
drugs that ruin cycling but how it's played out in the press, and the hearts
of the fans. The verdict is still out on Andy. I think it's too early and we
should wait to see what more Andy has to say before we pass judgement. I
think Andy would be a little more savy then Greg about what comes out of his
mouth.

my two cents

 

[hold my beer and watch this...]

Asswipe,

Maybe you can't read, but the whole point of this thread was that I don't
know if armstrong is on dope or not. I was speculating on his behavior,
based on either scenario.

Maybe you really are that dog...


"benjo maso" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Okay there, Benji, what the **** WERE they saying then?
>
> Making such a statement, the burden of proof is of course yours. If you
want
> to play the advocate of the devil, the least you can do is coming up with
> some solid evidence. But in a few words: Basson's only sin was that the
> journalists discovered him during the great scandal of 1998 als a
> Festina-rider who never used doping. He even got a column in a French
> newspaper in which he hardly ever wrote about drugs. But the simple fact
> that he was treated as `the man who never takes drugs' was of course
> annoying for the rest of the peloton (although Bassons emphasized again
and
> again he wasn't the only one).
> Simeoni's sin was quite different: not that he spilled the beans.
Zülle,
> Dufaux, Moreau, etc. did the same and nobody blamed them. Even Virenque -
> never very popular among the riders - was received with open arms when he
> returned in the peloton. The difference was that they were caught
red-handed
> and forced to make a confession, when Simeoni volunteered information. He
> never tested positive on epo, but nevertheless confessed he had used it
(and
> he and the mountain-biker Jerome Chiotti are the only pro's who ever did
> such a thing). He didn't denounce other riders and never even suggested
that
> Armstrong or anybodt else must be on drugs to perform so well. Yet many
> riders are treating him as an untouchable.
>
> > Do you know that you're named after an annoying little mutt?
>
> No, I wasn't. And my name isn't Benji.
>
> Benjo Maso
>
>

 

[Laz]

Question: how can an honest man prove he is not lying ?
Answer: he doesn't have to

Revelations about Miller, Virenque, Abu, Pantanni etc. are cause for
concern, but honest men exist, and it is an injustice to an honest man
to just blindly accuse him of cheating.
All of us here know the best way to ride better is to train better.
Lance trains and perpares perhaps more throughly than anyone else in
the Tour, I think his work ethic is shaming others into making excuses
for their own failings with their empty accusations.

Laz

"Shayne Wissler" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<rDBMc.180089$Oq2.41246@attbi_s52>...
> "hold my beer and watch this..." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > I really is interesting. I just wish I really knew whether or not the guy
> > was on ****ing dope or not...
>
> Just because someone accuses Lance of doping doesn't mean it should put a
> question mark on your mind. With that kind of standard everyone is a suspect
> for every kind of crime because there are nutcases out there crazy enough to
> accuse anyone of anything. Those making accusations without evidence should
> be ignored: it is injustice to the innocent to give any weight at all to
> their claims.
>
> Shayne Wissler