Ok, what is with clipless or clips?

In article <[email hidden]>,

dgk said:

I finally got it out, but it would have been better if I
just had fallen into the mud.

Anyway, what is clip vs clipless?

Clipless are easier to get out of than toe clips.
Clipless are also much more expensive.
Either will give you better performance than nothing at all.

do not spam said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

dgk said:

I finally got it out, but it would have been better if I
just had fallen into the mud.

Anyway, what is clip vs clipless?

Clipless are easier to get out of than toe clips.
Clipless are also much more expensive.

Not necessarily, if you don't count the cost of the shoes (I bought SPD
compatible shoes before I decided to go with clipless pedals, just for the
benefit of the stiff soles. If you buy cycling shoes that are similar in
cost to your regular shoes, I think it's valid to ignore shoe cost).

My clipless pedals (Wellgo SPD compatible) cost $28 CDN. You could
probably find a pair of pedals + clips + straps for less than this, but not
by much for the same quality.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Seeing is deceiving. It's eating that's believing.
-- James Thurber

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 13:14:37 -0800, Benjamin Lewis <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

do not spam said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

dgk said:

I finally got it out, but it would have been better if I
just had fallen into the mud.

Anyway, what is clip vs clipless?

Clipless are easier to get out of than toe clips.
Clipless are also much more expensive.

Not necessarily, if you don't count the cost of the shoes (I bought SPD
compatible shoes before I decided to go with clipless pedals, just for the
benefit of the stiff soles. If you buy cycling shoes that are similar in
cost to your regular shoes, I think it's valid to ignore shoe cost).

My clipless pedals (Wellgo SPD compatible) cost $28 CDN. You could
probably find a pair of pedals + clips + straps for less than this, but not
by much for the same quality.

Think about it, though. You get an inexpensive pedal and an inexpensive
shoe and it might work for you, but for most newbies, I say get solid
middle-of-the-line shoes, be prepared to pay 50-80 bucks. You -do- get what
you pay for. You'll presumably be using these for 20-30 days per month and
you want something that's durable, functional and comfortable. You go cheap
on the shoe and I'd wonder if you'd not regret that. You also want them to
look cool. Again, spending a lot of time in them.

On the pedals, don't get the very bottom of the line, go up one and get the
SPD M520. Solid performers and something that you're gonna be depending on
quite heavily.

Remember if you spread the cost out over many months of use, it's dirt
cheap. In addition you get a performance benefit, and about the largest
difference you'd notice going from plain pedals to clipless. Your pedal
stye and options even expands, imo.

-B

Badger South said:

On Wed, 03 Nov 2004 13:14:37 -0800, Benjamin Lewis <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Not necessarily, if you don't count the cost of the shoes (I bought SPD
compatible shoes before I decided to go with clipless pedals, just for
the benefit of the stiff soles. If you buy cycling shoes that are
similar in cost to your regular shoes, I think it's valid to ignore shoe
cost).

My clipless pedals (Wellgo SPD compatible) cost $28 CDN. You could
probably find a pair of pedals + clips + straps for less than this, but
not by much for the same quality.

Think about it, though. You get an inexpensive pedal and an inexpensive
shoe and it might work for you, but for most newbies, I say get solid
middle-of-the-line shoes, be prepared to pay 50-80 bucks.

I'd recommend using shoes in approximately this price range regardless of
whether you go with clipless or just regular pedals. Thus, I don't believe
shoe price is a drawback to clipless pedals, although convenience may be
for some people.

Quoted message said:

On the pedals, don't get the very bottom of the line, go up one and get
the SPD M520. Solid performers and something that you're gonna be
depending on quite heavily.

I have depended on my pedals quite heavily. I've used them for commuting
and for randonneuring, in all sorts of weather, over thousands of
kilometers. I have three pairs (for each of my bikes), and have not had a
single problem with any of them. (I've only used them for road riding, so
I can't say whether they make good MTB pedals or not).

http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detail.jsp?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=669883&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=337327&bmUID=1099521388887

or

http://tinyurl.com/3sxte

Quoted message said:

Remember if you spread the cost out over many months of use, it's dirt
cheap. In addition you get a performance benefit, and about the largest
difference you'd notice going from plain pedals to clipless. Your pedal
stye and options even expands, imo.

What performance benefit would I get? It's true that I've never tried
other clipless pedals, but that is because I can't imagine how they would
improve anything for me. (Well, occasionally I don't clip in on the first
try, but for me this has not been a significant issue, even where I have to
stop fairly frequently).

--
Benjamin Lewis

Seeing is deceiving. It's eating that's believing.
-- James Thurber

Benjamin Lewis said:

My clipless pedals (Wellgo SPD compatible) cost $28 CDN

I ride those, well, rebranded as the Nashbar house brand. 😉 cost 18US on
sale and function just as well as the 60 dollar "entry-level" shimano
variant. For that price, you can afford to put them on multiple bikes.
That pedal is also sold under the Ritchey brand name. FYI, on MTB forums,
the pedal gets very high ratings--no complaints really.

There's tons of shoes on sale at the on-line shops for 30USD now that
winter is coming. Yeah they say you shouldn't buy shoes online, but I know
my size and you can always send them back.

My current shoe pedal combo was $52 and rides like a dream.

BTW, I wiped out on a wet bridge a week ago with the tension set very
high--no problems getting free.

"Benjamin Lewis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Badger South wrote:

What performance benefit would I get? It's true that I've never tried
other clipless pedals, but that is because I can't imagine how they would
improve anything for me. (Well, occasionally I don't clip in on the first
try, but for me this has not been a significant issue, even where I have
to
stop fairly frequently).

There is an old English joke about trying to explain Cricket to an American,
all about batsmen going out when they are in until they are out then they
come in, and a batsman who is in but caught out must then come in etc etc.

I'm reminded of that joke everytime the subject of clipping into clipless
pedals crops up!

You've got to admit, it is daft terminology! The only pedals with clips are
clipless while clipped pedals have straps and no clips.......

pk

In article <[email hidden]>,

PK said:

You've got to admit, it is daft terminology! The only pedals with clips are
clipless while clipped pedals have straps and no clips.......

Clipped pedals have visible toe clips and straps.
Clipless pedals have invisible clips.

Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:14:14 +0000 (UTC), <[email hidden]>,

(do not spam) said:

Quoted message said:

You've got to admit, it is daft terminology! The only pedals with clips are
clipless while clipped pedals have straps and no clips.......

Clipped pedals have visible toe clips and straps.
Clipless pedals have invisible clips.

"Clipless" relies on the _cleat_ for holding your shoe to the pedal.
Cleats are also used with toe clips and straps where their function is
to keep your foot from twisting or sliding backward off the pedal
cage. The toe clips and straps hold it from coming off or forward.

Clipless pedals without cleats are an incomplete system.
--
zk

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:46:28 -0800, <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Thus, I don't believe
shoe price is a drawback to clipless pedals, although convenience may be
for some people.

And style, man. Don't forget _style_.
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:46:28 -0800, <[email hidden]>,

Benjamin Lewis said:

Thus, I don't believe
shoe price is a drawback to clipless pedals, although convenience may be
for some people.

And style, man. Don't forget _style_.

Yeah, if you restrict yourself to the Henry Ford school of colour, you may
have trouble finding shoes you like.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Seeing is deceiving. It's eating that's believing.
-- James Thurber

do not spam said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

dgk said:

I finally got it out, but it would have been better if I
just had fallen into the mud.

Anyway, what is clip vs clipless?

Clipless are easier to get out of than toe clips.

Depends on how experienced you are with either.

Quoted message said:

Clipless are also much more expensive.

Newer, hence still marketed as "New!". Since the variation
of clamp/cleat styles is infinite, the learning curve
will never drop much before any particular type becomes so
obsolete you won't trust the supply of spare parts. Hence,
expect the prices to remain excessive essentially forever.

Quoted message said:

Either will give you better performance than nothing at all.

Nothing at all = descent.

--Blair
"Tomorrow I'm installing some
clipless gloves."

PK said:

There is an old English joke about trying to explain Cricket to an American,
all about batsmen going out when they are in until they are out then they
come in, and a batsman who is in but caught out must then come in etc etc.

I'm reminded of that joke everytime the subject of clipping into clipless
pedals crops up!

Clipless pedals are so bollixed a subject that even Sheldon
Brown just says "go look at Shimano's website."

Quoted message said:

You've got to admit, it is daft terminology! The only pedals with clips are
clipless while clipped pedals have straps and no clips.......

Who's on first?

--Blair
"Indexed shifter!"

PK said:

You've got to admit, it is daft terminology! The only pedals with clips
are clipless while clipped pedals have straps and no clips.......

What about strapless pedals?

They can look great worn with a push-up.

😄

Blair P. Houghton said:

do not spam said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

dgk said:

I finally got it out, but it would have been better if I
just had fallen into the mud.

Anyway, what is clip vs clipless?

Clipless are easier to get out of than toe clips.

Depends on how experienced you are with either.

Perhaps, but in my experience clipless were *much* easier to get out of
when I'd had about equal experience with each. This probably depends
somewhat on clipless pedal design, how tight you like your straps to be,
etc.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Evelyn the dog, having undergone further modification, pondered the
significance of short-person behavior in pedal-depressed panchromatic
resonance and other highly ambient domains... "Arf", she said.

a shy person said:

Anyway, what is clip vs clipless?

http://www.yellowjersey.org/tocleat.html

The lower picture shows a shoe on a Campagnolo pedal with a strap that
goes through a toe clip to securing the shoe to the pedal. These, if
well fitting require the strap to be loosened to get the foot out of
the pedal.

For this reason, clips and straps are used on track racing even today
because "clipless" pedals have only a cleat under the shoe that
retains the shoe fore and aft, and vertically but not rotationally.
Since standing start sprints easily rotate the foot in the pedal,
unwanted releases can occur since this is the normal method of
releasing feet from clipless pedals.

Rotation release came to bicycling from skiing where step-in
engagement and rotation release was introduced years earlier when
twisted ankles were occurring on the slopes often. For most riding,
the "twist foot to exit" mechanism works well. SPD steel cleats
cannot be pulled out vertically although riders swear they can do it,
but I am sure it is a case of foot rotation masked by strong upward
pull on the foot. It doesn't take much.

That's the only drawback I see with "step-in" pedals, known as
clipless.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

PK what? said:

I'm reminded of that joke every time the subject of clipping into
clipless pedals crops up!

I don't know what crowd you mix with but around here we step into the
pedals and engage the cleat.

Quoted message said:

You've got to admit, it is daft terminology! The only pedals with
clips are clipless while clipped pedals have straps and no
clips...

I think you've got your terms confused. Toe clips support the strap
and prevent the pedal from rolling forward when pedaling standing.
You would have noticed that when a clip breaks as they often did and
your foot rolls off the front of the pedal still strapped in... clip
dangling and tinkling on the pavement as it hangs from the strap.

Today, plastic clips last a bit longer but are still a pain.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

PK what? said:

I'm reminded of that joke every time the subject of clipping into
clipless pedals crops up!

I don't know what crowd you mix with but around here we step into the
pedals and engage the cleat.

Quoted message said:

You've got to admit, it is daft terminology! The only pedals with
clips are clipless while clipped pedals have straps and no
clips...

I think you've got your terms confused. Toe clips support the strap
and prevent the pedal from rolling forward when pedaling standing.
You would have noticed that when a clip breaks as they often did and
your foot rolls off the front of the pedal still strapped in... clip
dangling and tinkling on the pavement as it hangs from the strap.

Today, plastic clips last a bit longer but are still a pain.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

I know all that Jobst, but the terminology only makes sense if you know the
history. Show someone who has seen neither a clipless pedal and one with
cage and straps and ask which is clipless! When a newbie arrives on here
and says "Which foot should i put in the clip first?" - someone always asks
if they are talking about toe straps (clipped) or pedals the shoe clips into
(clipless).

I was just remarking that it is very much like tring to explain cricket to
someone who has never seen the game.

EG
From an online advice site: The shoe cleats required for clipless pedals
are basically shaped pieces of metal [Snip].......Basically, the best way
to begin is to clip one foot (the foot you normally begin with) into its
pedal....

pk

"PK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]

[...]

Quoted message said:

I know all that Jobst, but the terminology only makes sense if you
know the history. Show someone who has seen neither a clipless pedal
and one with cage and straps and ask which is clipless! When a
newbie arrives on here and says "Which foot should i put in the clip
first?" - someone always asks if they are talking about toe straps
(clipped) or pedals the shoe clips into (clipless).

I was just remarking that it is very much like tring to explain
cricket to someone who has never seen the game.

You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the
side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes
in until he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and
the side thats been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out.
Sometimes you get men still in and not out.

When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and
when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There
are two men called umpires who stay all out all the time and they decide
when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the
men have out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been
in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game!

--

A: Top-posters.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?

"DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was just remarking that it is very much like tring to explain
cricket to someone who has never seen the game.

You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in
the
side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man
goes
in until he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and
the side thats been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out.
Sometimes you get men still in and not out.

When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and
when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There
are two men called umpires who stay all out all the time and they decide
when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the
men have out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have
been
in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game!

Thanks! I couldn't remember the details! Make as much sence as clipping into
clipless pedals! ie perfect sence if you know what it means gobbledegook if
you don't!!

pk