Oh my gawd!

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Damien Green has pronounced on the Conservative's transport plans:

I'm not sure how this affects cyclists very much, apart from reducing speed
humps, which would help cyclists.

Now if they had a policy of removing cycle lanes that would be a vote winner
for me at least!

Tony Raven said:

Damien Green has pronounced on the Conservative's transport plans:

http://www.conservatives.com/news/article.cfm?obj_id=114256

"The five policy proposals are:

1 Restricting traffic wardens to the jobs they are fully trained for,
and not acting as pseudo police officers with the power to punish
minor motoring offences such as clogging up box junctions or ignoring
"no right turn" signs.

2. Ensuring that local councils cannot insert road humps without
consultation and full approval of the emergency services. The London
Ambulance Service claimed in 2003 that "hundreds of deaths every year
might be caused by ambulances being delayed in arriving at hospitals".

3. Freeing up urban roads through car sharing schemes, so that
vehicles with 2 or more adult passengers should be allowed to use bus
lanes, easing congestion on the busiest roads.

4. Controlling the work of Wheel Clampers through a formal code of
conduct to properly regulate them, and scrapping Security Industry
Authority role in controlling wheel clampers.

5. Increasing the use of Vehicle Activated Displays and intelligent
road safety systems, especially outside schools and hospitals and
where local communities ask for them."

Puts head in hands and prepares to sharpen quill to write to local
(Conservative) MP

What's the problem with these ideas?

Speed humps, IMO are a pain in the [censored] on my bike and in my car. Bus lanes
are very often nearly empty. Wheel clampers can easily act as extortionists.
Vehicle activated displays seem to reduce accidents. As for traffic wardens,
IMO the current idea (is it even in practice) that they should be able to
handle traffic offences is ridiculous, being as I see far fewer traffic
wardens than I see police, and I can't see how the amount spent on making
them capable of issuing fixed penalty notices is going to help reduce
problems, compared to say, spending on actual traffic police.

Tony Raven said:

Damien Green has pronounced on the Conservative's transport
plans:

http://www.conservatives.com/news/article.cfm?obj_id=114256

"The five policy proposals are:

1 Restricting traffic wardens to the jobs they are fully
trained for,

eminently sensible. Wardens are "ticket numbers driven"

Quoted message said:

2. Ensuring that local councils cannot insert road humps without
consultation and full approval of the emergency services.

my local (london) labour authority has just announce a moratorium a=on all
new humps for this very reason

Quoted message said:

3. Freeing up urban roads through car sharing schemes, so that
vehicles with 2 or more adult passengers should be allowed to
use bus lanes, easing congestion on the busiest roads.

Oft suggested by a spectrum of political views

Quoted message said:

4. Controlling the work of Wheel Clampers through a formal code
of conduct to properly regulate them, and scrapping Security
Industry Authority role in controlling wheel clampers.

About time too! I've never been clamped btw

Quoted message said:

5. Increasing the use of Vehicle Activated Displays and
intelligent road safety systems, especially outside schools and
hospitals and where local communities ask for them."

I've long advocated the "Rappel 30" style radar operated signs as in France.
They work!

Quoted message said:

Puts head in hands and prepares to sharpen quill to write to
local (Conservative) MP

Why?

pk

PK said:

Why?

pk

The general tone:

Less enforcement of "minor" motoring offences

Reduction of speed control measures - OK I don't like humps either but
there is no mention of other ways to control speeds in urban areas, just
the restriction of what's there

Being hassled in bus lanes by drivers, who will, I bet, think their
qualification to drive there means they should be unimpeded in their
progress.

Less controls on parking - no I don't like clampers either but again
nothing about what the alternative controls will be.

No mention of cycling or public transport encouragement

Tony

Doki said:

Vehicle activated displays seem to reduce accidents.

Surely they distract drivers when they most need to be concentrating on the
road and will cause more accidents, most miles away from the actual accident
site.

Or at least that would be the PS analogy..

...d

Tony Raven said:

Damien Green has pronounced on the Conservative's transport plans:

As expected: zero tolerance for offences against Middle Britain, zero
enforcement for offences committed by middle britain.

The clearest indication yet that the MRTP have zero expectation of winning
the next election, as they know full well that they could not introduce
these policies without undermining years of traffic management and road
safety efforts.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Being hassled in bus lanes by drivers, who will, I bet, think their
qualification to drive there means they should be unimpeded in their
progress.

I'd rather get hassled by a car than a bus!

Adrian Boliston said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Being hassled in bus lanes by drivers, who will, I bet, think their
qualification to drive there means they should be unimpeded in their
progress.

I'd rather get hassled by a car than a bus!

There are a lot more cars than buses

Tony

David Martin said:

Doki said:

Vehicle activated displays seem to reduce accidents.

Surely they distract drivers when they most need to be concentrating on the
road and will cause more accidents, most miles away from the actual accident
site.

No, they rock...on a downhill you get to see just how fast you were
freewheeling :-)

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tony Raven said:

"The five policy proposals are:

1 Restricting traffic wardens to the jobs they are fully trained for,

Subtext: they're subhumans and lets not let them forget it.

Quoted message said:

2. Ensuring that local councils cannot insert road humps without
consultation and full approval of the emergency services. The London

That's not such a bad thing. Could even be a good thing.

Quoted message said:

3. Freeing up urban roads through car sharing schemes,

OK so far.

Quoted message said:

so that vehicles
with 2 or more adult passengers should be allowed to use bus lanes,
easing congestion on the busiest roads.

Not OK. Kill off buses as a sensible form of transport in precisely
the places they add the greatest value.

Quoted message said:

4. Controlling the work of Wheel Clampers through a formal code of
conduct to properly regulate them, and scrapping Security Industry
Authority role in controlling wheel clampers.

Probably means *** all in practice.

Quoted message said:

5. Increasing the use of Vehicle Activated Displays and intelligent road
safety systems, especially outside schools and hospitals and where local
communities ask for them."

Ah, good. That'll be speed cameras then.

--
Nick Kew

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Nick Kew
<[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

Ah, good. That'll be speed cameras then.

I don't think it means cameras, I think it means those black boxes that
suddenly light up with flashing lights and "SLOW DOWN!" and/or an
illuminated display of the speed limit if you drive towards them at over
the limit.

I like these, as they let people know they can be "spotted" without
actually enforcing a penalty, so someone who genuinely has drifted over
the limit by accident gets told to slow in an effective manner. Cameras
could then be used further in, to catch the nutters who ignore the
signs.

So you'd have the speed activated sign 100 yards up the road, and then a
GATSO right at the school gates. Plus a TWATSO to catch all the idiots
who put their, and everyone elses, kids at risk by idiotic parking. :-)

NP: Inkubus Sukkubus - Samhain.
--
- Pyromancer Stormshadow.
http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk <-- Pagan Gothic Rock!
http://www.littlematchgirl.co.uk <-- Electronic Metal!
http://www.revival.stormshadow.com <-- The Gothic Revival.

Quoted message said:

Less controls on parking - no I don't like clampers either but again
nothing about what the alternative controls will be.

Private clampers have been outlawed for years in Scotland following a
test case when it was held under existing common law to be theft or
extortion. There has been no calls for it to be legalised. Where the
owner of private land has a problem with parking he either fences it
off or in the case of parking bays installs key operated bollards on
each parking place. Problemn solved.
IMO a better state of affairs than the clamping cowboy free for all
in England and Wales.
Iain

On Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:11:22 +0100, Tony Raven <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Adrian Boliston said:

"Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Being hassled in bus lanes by drivers, who will, I bet, think their
qualification to drive there means they should be unimpeded in their
progress.

I'd rather get hassled by a car than a bus!

There are a lot more cars than buses

Tony

As a rule they're better, safer drivers. I know that some will have had
bad experiences with them and there are some that are plain and simple in
the wrong job, but I can't see how you'd fail to be good at the process of
driving if you drove something 20x the size of a small car around a town
all day.

|C|H|R|I|S|@|T|R|I|N|I|T|Y|W|I|L|L|S|.|C|O|M|
Remove the bars to contact me

Nick Kew said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tony Raven said:

so that vehicles
with 2 or more adult passengers should be allowed to use bus lanes,
easing congestion on the busiest roads.

Not OK. Kill off buses as a sensible form of transport in precisely
the places they add the greatest value.

People wouldn't use buses until they were seriously cheaper than driving,
and driving were ludicrously expensive, to the point where even car sharing
became uneconomic. I know I'd sooner cycle before getting on a bus. They're
a bloody awful way to get anywhere.

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 01:01:37 +0100 someone who may be "Doki"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I know I'd sooner cycle before getting on a bus. They're
a bloody awful way to get anywhere.

That rather depends on the bus service. These do vary from place to
place.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E
I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK government
prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

Doki said:

People wouldn't use buses until they were seriously cheaper than driving,

They already are.

Quoted message said:

and driving were ludicrously expensive

It already is.

Quoted message said:

I know I'd sooner cycle before getting on a bus. They're
a bloody awful way to get anywhere.

Yes, this is part of the reason why people are prepared to pay through
the nose for private transport. The other part of the reason is the
misguided belief that the cost of every journey they make by car amounts
to no more than the cost of the petrol.

d.

davek said:

Doki said:

People wouldn't use buses until they were seriously cheaper than
driving,

They already are.

Not IME.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and driving were ludicrously expensive

It already is.

Not for me it's not.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I know I'd sooner cycle before getting on a bus. They're
a bloody awful way to get anywhere.

Yes, this is part of the reason why people are prepared to pay through
the nose for private transport. The other part of the reason is the
misguided belief that the cost of every journey they make by car
amounts to no more than the cost of the petrol.

Petrol, depreciation, tyres, insurance and servicing. Depreciation on my car
is, ooh, an absolute max of £100 a year, and if I put 4 tyres on a year
that'd be around £100, servicing would cost *me* about £70 tops assuming
nowt needs doing for the MOT, and insurance is £500. If I do 10 thousand
miles a year, that's 12.3p per mile on top of about 10 pence a mile on fuel.
Parking may or may not be on top of that, depending on whether or not you
use your car for driving to town centres or not. Google suggests buses
average around 20p a mile. I'm not tight enough to swap a car journey
whenever I want for a ride in a urine soaked bus driven by a surly maniac
for the sake of 2 and a half pence a mile 😉.

David Hansen said:

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 01:01:37 +0100 someone who may be "Doki"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

I know I'd sooner cycle before getting on a bus. They're
a bloody awful way to get anywhere.

That rather depends on the bus service. These do vary from place to
place.

They do that. Insane drivers and seats too close together seem to be common
theme IME. I've not even got long legs but always seem to have my knees
wedged into the seat in front.

davek said:

Quoted message said:

People wouldn't use buses until they were seriously cheaper than
driving,

They already are.

Quoted message said:

and driving were ludicrously expensive

It already is.

Driving is cheaper now in real terms than at any time in the past, IIRC.
Certainly cheaper than it was in the early 80s. Public transport, on the
other hand, is not.

On the plus side, bikes are also cheaper in real terms.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington
University