Oh, I'm not complaining here....

Hmmm....why didn't you just let them keep it? Better to spend your time
riding than to fool with figuring out how to use a busted bike. JIMO,
though. For $410, it would have to be a fully functioning bike for me....

Neil Brooks <[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

:> It doesn't have the geometry, or fork clearance, for a good
:> cyclocross bike, nor the geometry+braze-ons for a tourer. It comes
:> close enough to fitting a few friends that it really *could* be an
:> "extra," but those are kind of weak routes. There's the whole
:> "rainy day bike" vs. "weekend bike" concept.
:>
:> Another thought was test bed. The new one stays as the control while
:> component/adjustment changes are made on the variable bike....
:>
:> Any others I'm missing?
:>
:> BTW: I'm happily aware that there are worse problems to have. Rest
:> assured, I have those, too. This is a pretty pi$$-poor way to come
:> up with a 2nd high-end bike, but . . . I'm not complaining here ;-)

Roger Zoul said:

Hmmm....why didn't you just let them keep it? Better to spend your time
riding than to fool with figuring out how to use a busted bike. JIMO,
though. For $410, it would have to be a fully functioning bike for me....

Even if . . .

- the bike was only 2wks old when crashed
- it only had about 400 miles on it
- it sold for about $6k new
- it would be "good as new" for only about $850
- it would then sell for several times the $ I had into it

??

It's easy to check the frame's alignment once the wheels are
trued/replaced -- just ride no hands, pedaling hard ;-)

If it's off alignment, it would be *minor* and easily/cheaply fixed by
sending it back to Moots.

Sounds like a pretty good investment either way, especially if I sold
it!

Assuming that $410 isn't the type of expenditure that keeps food of the
table -- and if it is, you shouldn't have bought the first Moots -- I'd
jump at it.

I like the "rainy day" bike concept. There are also limestone trails
and other rougher territory for a road bike -- check out where Jobst
rides on a road bike. These will probably work better with different
tires, and swapping tires is not fun. Plus you can put a rack and
panniers on this bike, while keeping the other bike as light as
possible, and have a nice "day tour" bike.

Your possible regret is very low. Your possible pleasure is very high.

Neil Brooks said:

So there was that fateful Moots crash on "Good" Friday, right?
...
Rear wheel needs truing. Front is bent on the seam and should be
replaced. Fine: about $350 there.

Zounds. Truing one wheel and replacing one rim is $350?

Quoted message said:

So what do you do with it (just in case: "Send it to me" won't fly)?

Well, then, send it to _me_ instead...

You could spend $20 on Jobst's book, another $20-$40 on a rim, and learn
how to true and build your own wheels.

You know, it's really an odd statement about the insurance industry that
will total a $3000+(?) bike with just cosmetic damage and a bent rim.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Become MicroSoft-free forever. Ask me how.
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) |

Neil Brooks said:

Roger Zoul said:

Hmmm....why didn't you just let them keep it? Better to spend your time
riding than to fool with figuring out how to use a busted bike. JIMO,
though. For $410, it would have to be a fully functioning bike for me....

Even if . . .

- the bike was only 2wks old when crashed
- it only had about 400 miles on it
- it sold for about $6k new
- it would be "good as new" for only about $850
- it would then sell for several times the $ I had into it

??

??

If they can repair it to "good as new" for $850, why'd they spend $6K on
a new one? It sounds like some kind of fraud to me...

Personally, I'd buy it and sell it for profit if I really believed it
could be done for $850. I don't see the advantage is putting money into
exactly the same bike....whereas I would see having a second different
bike. But that's me...different strokes...

Quoted message said:

It's easy to check the frame's alignment once the wheels are
trued/replaced -- just ride no hands, pedaling hard ;-)

If it's off alignment, it would be *minor* and easily/cheaply fixed by
sending it back to Moots.

Sounds like a pretty good investment either way, especially if I sold
it!

There ya go...

David L. Johnson said:

Quoted message said:

You know, it's really an odd statement about the insurance industry

that

Quoted message said:

will total a $3000+(?) bike with just cosmetic damage and a bent rim.

--

About 10 years ago I was nicked by a car while on my (then) new
Litespeed. Small scratch to the frame, a nick on the saddle and needed
to replace the rear rim. His insurance company was very happy to learn
I was not claiming any injury (only got a small scrape) and surprised
when my claim came in under $200. They got that check ( and release
form)out very fast.
I too am surprised at the idea of them paying more than they have to.
Especially as most insurance companies have large staffs to work on
paying less than they might.

Roger Zoul said:

Hmmm....why didn't you just let them keep it? Better to spend your time
riding than to fool with figuring out how to use a busted bike. JIMO,
though. For $410, it would have to be a fully functioning bike for me....

Roger, the parts alone, make it a wise investment. He could parts it
out and make a tidy sum. If the money isn't a concern, then an extra
bike is always nice.

In my opinion, every enthusiast should have a minimum of two bikes.
When I only had one, there was a time it was stuck in the shop, for
more than a week. It drove me nuts and it won't happen again. I now
own two bikes and I now do most of my own work. I also have a decent
selection of spare parts, including wheels, cassettes, cables, bars,
stems, chains, and more.

Life is Good!
Jeff

David L. Johnson said:

Neil Brooks said:

So there was that fateful Moots crash on "Good" Friday, right?
...
Rear wheel needs truing. Front is bent on the seam and should be
replaced. Fine: about $350 there.

Zounds. Truing one wheel and replacing one rim is $350?

The truing, as usual, is probably under $20. The front rim is a Campy
Eurus: http://snipurl.com/etg1

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So what do you do with it (just in case: "Send it to me" won't fly)?

Well, then, send it to _me_ instead...

.. . . just let me jot down your address....

Quoted message said:

You could spend $20 on Jobst's book, another $20-$40 on a rim, and learn
how to true and build your own wheels.

Actually, I have a truing stand and could have trued the back one just
fine. I'm trying to establish/re-establish a business relationship
with *the other* Moots dealer in town . . . who happens to be 0.2
miles from my house. Letting him have the $20 -- since he didn't get
either of the two big checks for Moots I or Moots II -- seemed fair.

Quoted message said:

You know, it's really an odd statement about the insurance industry that
will total a $3000+(?) bike with just cosmetic damage and a bent rim.

When I brought the wrecked bike into the first LBS for damage
assessment, I told them that I wanted to be made whole -- no more, no
less. That meant if the frame wasn't perfectly straight, if the
carbon fiber pieces were not perfectly trustworthy, and if any pieces
were cosmetically damaged, they should be replaced, up to and
including a total, if indicated. The bike was--as I said--two weeks
old and had about 400 miles on it. It was in absolutely perfect
condition.

The Look carbon fiber fork has a quarter-sized contusion, the right
brifter obviously skated across the pavement along with the seat and
the rear QR. The bars and fork are an unknown . . . but I'm not
replacing them at this point. The wheels were tacoed. Obviously, one
needs replacement. The other needed truing and dishing.

I don't think it's a surprise that the insurance company totaled it at
all. In fact, in the context of the trip I took in the ambulance and
the months over which my right clavicle will heal, I think they feel
they got off cheaply. This was a *tasty* case for an attorney. I
just didn't want to go that route.

I also got $1k in "Pain and Suffering" money, which I donated to San
Diego County Bicycle Coalition--an organization to which I belong.

Best,
Neil

Bob Dole said:

Assuming that $410 isn't the type of expenditure that keeps food of the
table -- and if it is, you shouldn't have bought the first Moots -- I'd
jump at it.

I like the "rainy day" bike concept. There are also limestone trails
and other rougher territory for a road bike -- check out where Jobst
rides on a road bike. These will probably work better with different
tires, and swapping tires is not fun. Plus you can put a rack and
panniers on this bike, while keeping the other bike as light as
possible, and have a nice "day tour" bike.

Your possible regret is very low. Your possible pleasure is very high.

Yeah, fortunately we live simply and blow our dough on toys, so dinner
-- such as it is -- is not in jeopardy.

You know, that "super-tourer" concept is really intriguing. I have a
30 pound Cannondale T2000 tourer. I love the bike, but now that I've
ridden Ti, I can't muster the same love for aluminum.

Dropping a few el-bees and still carrying the usual [censored] make some
sense. I'll have to see what kind of tire width I can get on there.

Hm. From looking at Campy's specs, max width is 25c. So, maybe some
Specialized Armadillos or Panaracer Paselas. No braze-ons for a rack,
but clamping can't be too bad, huh?

A bad-a$$ grocery-getter. Neat concept. Thanks, Bob!

Neil Brooks said:

Take it to the shop down the street. He's a Moots dealer. I tell the
tale. I'm 99% sure that *I* hit the car door; not the bike. Based on
that, and a visual inspection, he's pretty comfortable with the frame,
the bars, and the fork being relatively intact, +/- some cosmetic
stuff.

Rear wheel needs truing. Front is bent on the seam and should be
replaced. Fine: about $350 there. Then the bike is just a scuffed
up, 400 miles on it, well-nigh perfect Moots that I own.

Correction: the LBS is looking to replace the *rim,* not the whole
wheel.

My fault for misinterpreting his words. Looks like $180 + the
rebuild.

That's nice....

Neil Brooks said:

So there was that fateful Moots crash on "Good" Friday, right?

All through with the medical. All through with the insurance. They
bought me a brand spanking new Vamoots, identically spec'd. I've got
it.

What about the old bike, then? They *are* going to take it for its
salvage value. The salvage company called me. They'd like to

arrange

Quoted message said:

pickup. But, but, but . . . how much are you asking for the wrecked
bike? $410.00, plus California Sales Tax.

Sold.

Take it to the shop down the street. He's a Moots dealer. I tell

the

Quoted message said:

tale. I'm 99% sure that *I* hit the car door; not the bike. Based

on

Quoted message said:

that, and a visual inspection, he's pretty comfortable with the

frame,

Quoted message said:

the bars, and the fork being relatively intact, +/- some cosmetic
stuff.

Rear wheel needs truing. Front is bent on the seam and should be
replaced. Fine: about $350 there. Then the bike is just a scuffed
up, 400 miles on it, well-nigh perfect Moots that I own.

So what do you do with it (just in case: "Send it to me" won't fly)?

Sure, I could sell it, but I'm trying to think about possibles that
involve *keeping* it. They do make those freestanding oak bike racks
in a 2-bike version. Living room could stand "sprucing" up (spruce .
. . oak . . . get it?), and a pair of Mootses (Mootsi?) goes a long
way.

It doesn't have the geometry, or fork clearance, for a good

cyclocross

Quoted message said:

bike, nor the geometry+braze-ons for a tourer. It comes close enough
to fitting a few friends that it really *could* be an "extra," but
those are kind of weak routes. There's the whole "rainy day bike"

vs.

Quoted message said:

"weekend bike" concept.

Another thought was test bed. The new one stays as the control while
component/adjustment changes are made on the variable bike....

Any others I'm missing?

BTW: I'm happily aware that there are worse problems to have. Rest
assured, I have those, too. This is a pretty pi$$-poor way to come

up

Quoted message said:

with a 2nd high-end bike, but . . . I'm not complaining here ;-)

TIA,
Neil

I'm glad to hear you're recovered and things are working out for you,
Neil.
A few ideas-
1- First prize in the soon to be inaugurated Annual Rec.Bicycles.Misc
Charity Raffle? As the first prize donor you will of course get to pick
the charity. ("Me" doesn't qualify)
2- Do the necessary repairs, put a pair of platform pedals on it, and
use it as an ego deflator for those that are continually bragging about
their wonder bikes. Imagine the looks you'll get when you say, "Oh,
that? That's my beater bike. I never ride my *nice* bike around town."
3- If you mounted it on an indoor trainer there'd be no need to spend
any money at all outside of the buy back price.
4- Mount it on a trainer. Add a PowerTap hub and a HRM. Bingo, instant
pro level training aid.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Neil Brooks said:

- the bike was only 2wks old when crashed
- it only had about 400 miles on it
- it sold for about $6k new

YOUR BIKE COST 6,000 DOLLARS??????

Amazed Maggie

"Maggie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Neil Brooks said:

- the bike was only 2wks old when crashed
- it only had about 400 miles on it
- it sold for about $6k new

YOUR BIKE COST 6,000 DOLLARS??????

Amazed Maggie

The most expensive I've heard of: $15,000 USD.

Maggie said:

Neil Brooks said:

- the bike was only 2wks old when crashed
- it only had about 400 miles on it
- it sold for about $6k new

YOUR BIKE COST 6,000 DOLLARS??????

Amazed Maggie

Yeah. Didn't we talk about this? My wife and I live like Cambodian
refugees, have no debt, eat Ramen noodles about 15 times a week . . .
but we have some nice bikes (and other toys)!

Life's better that way....

What about that overpriced handbag you once bought? Huh??

And where's my donut and latte anyway? ;-)

Bob said:

Neil Brooks said:

So there was that fateful Moots crash on "Good" Friday, right?

All through with the medical. All through with the insurance. They
bought me a brand spanking new Vamoots, identically spec'd. I've got
it.

What about the old bike, then? They *are* going to take it for its
salvage value. The salvage company called me. They'd like to

arrange

Quoted message said:

pickup. But, but, but . . . how much are you asking for the wrecked
bike? $410.00, plus California Sales Tax.

Sold.

Take it to the shop down the street. He's a Moots dealer. I tell

the

Quoted message said:

tale. I'm 99% sure that *I* hit the car door; not the bike. Based

on

Quoted message said:

that, and a visual inspection, he's pretty comfortable with the

frame,

Quoted message said:

the bars, and the fork being relatively intact, +/- some cosmetic
stuff.

Rear wheel needs truing. Front is bent on the seam and should be
replaced. Fine: about $350 there. Then the bike is just a scuffed
up, 400 miles on it, well-nigh perfect Moots that I own.

So what do you do with it (just in case: "Send it to me" won't fly)?

Sure, I could sell it, but I'm trying to think about possibles that
involve *keeping* it. They do make those freestanding oak bike racks
in a 2-bike version. Living room could stand "sprucing" up (spruce .
. . oak . . . get it?), and a pair of Mootses (Mootsi?) goes a long
way.

It doesn't have the geometry, or fork clearance, for a good

cyclocross

Quoted message said:

bike, nor the geometry+braze-ons for a tourer. It comes close enough
to fitting a few friends that it really *could* be an "extra," but
those are kind of weak routes. There's the whole "rainy day bike"

vs.

Quoted message said:

"weekend bike" concept.

Another thought was test bed. The new one stays as the control while
component/adjustment changes are made on the variable bike....

Any others I'm missing?

BTW: I'm happily aware that there are worse problems to have. Rest
assured, I have those, too. This is a pretty pi$$-poor way to come

up

Quoted message said:

with a 2nd high-end bike, but . . . I'm not complaining here ;-)

TIA,
Neil

I'm glad to hear you're recovered and things are working out for you,
Neil.
A few ideas-
1- First prize in the soon to be inaugurated Annual Rec.Bicycles.Misc
Charity Raffle? As the first prize donor you will of course get to pick
the charity. ("Me" doesn't qualify)
2- Do the necessary repairs, put a pair of platform pedals on it, and
use it as an ego deflator for those that are continually bragging about
their wonder bikes. Imagine the looks you'll get when you say, "Oh,
that? That's my beater bike. I never ride my *nice* bike around town."
3- If you mounted it on an indoor trainer there'd be no need to spend
any money at all outside of the buy back price.
4- Mount it on a trainer. Add a PowerTap hub and a HRM. Bingo, instant
pro level training aid.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

I'm sorry, Bob. Idea #1 got scrambled on Forte Agent. I'll look into
that ;-)

I love #2, but most kids on 20" bikes can still kick my @ss. Working
on that....

As to #'s 3 and 4: (think Gomez Adams here) Capital idea. Probably
the cheaper route would be the way to go, but a trainer is a perfect
idea. Actually, making the sport tourer (with 28c tires and a
light-duty rack) doesn't negate the trainer.

Much appreciated!

Neil

Neil Brooks said:

Bob said:

Neil Brooks said:

So there was that fateful Moots crash on "Good" Friday, right?

All through with the medical. All through with the insurance.

They

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bought me a brand spanking new Vamoots, identically spec'd. I've

got

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it.

What about the old bike, then? They *are* going to take it for

its

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

salvage value. The salvage company called me. They'd like to

arrange

Quoted message said:

pickup. But, but, but . . . how much are you asking for the

wrecked

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

bike? $410.00, plus California Sales Tax.

Sold.

Take it to the shop down the street. He's a Moots dealer. I tell

the

Quoted message said:

tale. I'm 99% sure that *I* hit the car door; not the bike.

Based

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

on

Quoted message said:

that, and a visual inspection, he's pretty comfortable with the

frame,

Quoted message said:

the bars, and the fork being relatively intact, +/- some cosmetic
stuff.

Rear wheel needs truing. Front is bent on the seam and should be
replaced. Fine: about $350 there. Then the bike is just a

scuffed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

up, 400 miles on it, well-nigh perfect Moots that I own.

So what do you do with it (just in case: "Send it to me" won't

fly)?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sure, I could sell it, but I'm trying to think about possibles

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

involve *keeping* it. They do make those freestanding oak bike

racks

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in a 2-bike version. Living room could stand "sprucing" up

(spruce .

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

. . oak . . . get it?), and a pair of Mootses (Mootsi?) goes a

long

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

way.

It doesn't have the geometry, or fork clearance, for a good

cyclocross

Quoted message said:

bike, nor the geometry+braze-ons for a tourer. It comes close

enough

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to fitting a few friends that it really *could* be an "extra," but
those are kind of weak routes. There's the whole "rainy day bike"

vs.

Quoted message said:

"weekend bike" concept.

Another thought was test bed. The new one stays as the control

while

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

component/adjustment changes are made on the variable bike....

Any others I'm missing?

BTW: I'm happily aware that there are worse problems to have.

Rest

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

assured, I have those, too. This is a pretty pi$$-poor way to

come

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

up

Quoted message said:

with a 2nd high-end bike, but . . . I'm not complaining here ;-)

TIA,
Neil

I'm glad to hear you're recovered and things are working out for

you,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Neil.
A few ideas-
1- First prize in the soon to be inaugurated Annual

Rec.Bicycles.Misc

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Charity Raffle? As the first prize donor you will of course get to

pick

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the charity. ("Me" doesn't qualify)
2- Do the necessary repairs, put a pair of platform pedals on it,

and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

use it as an ego deflator for those that are continually bragging

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

their wonder bikes. Imagine the looks you'll get when you say, "Oh,
that? That's my beater bike. I never ride my *nice* bike around

town."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3- If you mounted it on an indoor trainer there'd be no need to

spend

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

any money at all outside of the buy back price.
4- Mount it on a trainer. Add a PowerTap hub and a HRM. Bingo,

instant

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

pro level training aid.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

I'm sorry, Bob. Idea #1 got scrambled on Forte Agent. I'll look

into

Quoted message said:

that ;-)

I love #2, but most kids on 20" bikes can still kick my @ss. Working
on that....

As to #'s 3 and 4: (think Gomez Adams here) Capital idea. Probably
the cheaper route would be the way to go, but a trainer is a perfect
idea. Actually, making the sport tourer (with 28c tires and a
light-duty rack) doesn't negate the trainer.

Much appreciated!

Neil

Riding at a sedate pace could actually increase the satisfaction of #2.
Just tell people you aren't riding seriously because you're still
recovering from that nasty spill in Paris-Nice hence the beater bike.
It would be rather like explaining why you use the Silver Shadow when
you need to do a little light hauling...
"The last time I hauled anything in the passenger seat of my Ferrari
Enzo Angelina Jolie got all bent out of shape because she had to sit on
top of 100 lbs of peat moss."
Of course, the hardest part of either of these is keeping a straight
face when you use them. <g>

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Bob <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> 4- Mount it on a trainer. Add a PowerTap hub and a HRM. Bingo,
:> instant pro level training aid.

Nice idea...

Maggie said:

Neil Brooks said:

- the bike was only 2wks old when crashed
- it only had about 400 miles on it
- it sold for about $6k new

YOUR BIKE COST 6,000 DOLLARS??????

Amazed Maggie

And you wonder why I get ragged on for my $60 Huffy and $80 Mongoose?
These guys have way too much money on their hands.
I wonder if they have On-Star to track the bike if it gets stolen?
Bill Baka

bbaka <[email hidden]> wrote:
:> Maggie wrote:
:> > Neil Brooks wrote:
:> >
:> >> - the bike was only 2wks old when crashed
:> >> - it only had about 400 miles on it
:> >> - it sold for about $6k new
:> >
:> >
:> >
:> > YOUR BIKE COST 6,000 DOLLARS??????
:> >
:> > Amazed Maggie
:> >
:> And you wonder why I get ragged on for my $60 Huffy and $80 Mongoose?

? Because you deserve to be? You can do better than a $60 Huffy....

:> These guys have way too much money on their hands.
:> I wonder if they have On-Star to track the bike if it gets stolen?
:> Bill Baka