"Off the Rails" by Tim Cope and Chris Hatherly

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey, just got my copy of this just-reprinted chronicle of two Aussies'
trek through Russia, Siberia, Mongolia, and China on their 'bents! I
haven't read nothing yet -- don't even know what kinda 'bents they had
-- but I am impressed by the COLOR photos which give the paperback a
nice elegant touch. I hope for their next edition they turn this into
some kind of coffee table sort of book!

Y'all should check it out...it sounds like a great adventure
story...I'll post back later on "technical" stuff from language arts to
trip highlights as warranted...I'm curious if, since being picked up by
the prestigious Penguin/Viking label, the account's been
modified/edited (like maybe it was a typical crazyguyonabike.com
journal previously and now reads better, etc.)....

I'm glad to see that NYC is finally using some discretion with regard to
cross-posting. It is OK to do this if it is done with your brain in gear.
NYC did this one right as far as I can tell. Congratulations!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Okay, I've skimmed the book a bit and I have to say it's adequate but
definitely not "literary"...it reads more like cleaned-up journal
entries than some kind of Paul Theroux travelogue...many events which
seem momentous are dealt with in just a short paragraph! As it is,
however, the book was still surprisingly thick. Just wish it didn't
read so much like most any crazyguyonabike.com entry.

The chapters are alternately written by the two adventurers. Not any
difference, really, I could discern with a preliminary perusal, though
it must surely prove interesting later on when we get to the inevitable
interpersonal tensions. All in all, an important contribution to the
record of human achievement. An Australian Geographic DVD documentary
is available.

There is a nice drawing of their recumbent bike (still couldn't find
out which one it is they used; it's high-riding USS with a mesh-seat
and front suspension only [?!?!]) with labels for all the major parts,
including gear (they had OVER A HUNDRED POUNDS each at any one
time!!!!!), though oddly enough they forgot to mention the mudguards
(maybe they thought that that was just too obvious to note).
Unfortunately, there wasn't too much, again at first glance, about
recumbents, etc. -- it's probably covered somewhere, but glossed over
rather quickly like all else, I'd guess.

NYC XYZ said:

Hey, just got my copy of this just-reprinted chronicle of two Aussies'
trek through Russia, Siberia, Mongolia, and China on their 'bents! I
haven't read nothing yet -- don't even know what kinda 'bents they had
-- but I am impressed by the COLOR photos which give the paperback a
nice elegant touch. I hope for their next edition they turn this into
some kind of coffee table sort of book!

Y'all should check it out...it sounds like a great adventure
story...I'll post back later on "technical" stuff from language arts to
trip highlights as warranted...I'm curious if, since being picked up by
the prestigious Penguin/Viking label, the account's been
modified/edited (like maybe it was a typical crazyguyonabike.com
journal previously and now reads better, etc.)....

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Okay, I've skimmed the book a bit and I have to say it's adequate but
definitely not "literary"...it reads more like cleaned-up journal
entries than some kind of Paul Theroux travelogue...many events which
seem momentous are dealt with in just a short paragraph! As it is,
however, the book was still surprisingly thick. Just wish it didn't
read so much like most any crazyguyonabike.com entry.

[...]

I am one of this world's champion armchair travelers, having read most of
the travel books that the local public library had on its shelves. Most
recent travel books are not worth reading for any number of reasons, the
main reason being the total lack of culture of the writer. Paul Theroux is
just excellent and it is a joy to read him.

The first travel book I ever read was the travels of Marco Polo. That is
still one of the very best travel books ever written by anyone. However, it
is best to read travel books when you are young and hopeful. You are always
thinking that some day you are going to travel yourself. Alas, most of us
end up doing very little true traveling.

By the way, touring is not the same thing as traveling. One is an adventure
and the other is not. One is hard and the other is easy. One is life
transforming and the other is not. Guess which is which?

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

I am one of this world's champion armchair travelers, having read most of
the travel books that the local public library had on its shelves. Most
recent travel books are not worth reading for any number of reasons, the
main reason being the total lack of culture of the writer. Paul Theroux is
just excellent and it is a joy to read him.

Well, I guess I beg to differ. I found reading 'Off the Rails' to be quite a
joyous adventure, with a reasonable level of insight and understanding of
the places they visited. Even better, covering some similar parts was
'Absudistan' by Eric Campbell. Not strictly a travel book as he was working
as a foreign correspondent and it's all about these experiences. A
marvellously funny read, and very revealing about the wide range of places
he travelled to.

Paul Theroux - is that a cultured writer? Well I didn't get to finish his
book about the Mediterranean. I may have to give it another go. I found his
style to be too carping and cynical, I can't stand such a negative outlook
and I don't equate that with culture.

Cheers
Peter

Peter Signorini said:

Even better, covering some similar parts was 'Absudistan' by Eric
Campbell.

Oops! For anyone interested that should be 'Absurdistan'

Cheers
Peter

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

I am one of this world's champion armchair travelers, having read most of
the travel books that the local public library had on its shelves. Most
recent travel books are not worth reading for any number of reasons, the
main reason being the total lack of culture of the writer. Paul Theroux
is just excellent and it is a joy to read him.

Well, I guess I beg to differ. I found reading 'Off the Rails' to be quite
a joyous adventure, with a reasonable level of insight and understanding
of the places they visited. Even better, covering some similar parts was
'Absudistan' by Eric Campbell. Not strictly a travel book as he was
working as a foreign correspondent and it's all about these experiences. A
marvellously funny read, and very revealing about the wide range of places
he travelled to.

Paul Theroux - is that a cultured writer? Well I didn't get to finish his
book about the Mediterranean. I may have to give it another go. I found
his style to be too carping and cynical, I can't stand such a negative
outlook and I don't equate that with culture.

I did not read 'Off the Rails' and I have no intention of reading it based
on what NYC had to say about it. I hate the kind of books that journalists
and amateurs write. They are only good for a column or two, maybe a magazine
article, but hardly ever a book. There are some exceptions of course.

Paul Theroux is not for everyone. I very much like his cynical and
depressing world view of nations and peoples because that is my view also.
Anything that reeks of the Chamber of Commerce is anathema to me. There is
no question, whether you like Theroux or not, that he is a writer and not a
scribbler like so many others.

Theroux also wrote a rather amusing book about walking the entire coast of
England. I rather admire someone who can think of doing something like that.
He rarely has anything good to say about anyone when you get right down to
it, but that is what I like about him.

The world is just full of bozos who lead very exciting lives, traveling or
otherwise, but they are not worth reading because they do not know how to
write about their adventures, let alone even how to think about their
adventures. In sum, they lack the requisite culture to interest anyone in
their lives. It is too bad because writers rarely lead very exciting lives.
But I can only read something that is well thought out and well written by a
real writer. I simply have no patience with anything less.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
[...]

Quoted message said:

Yes, I guess the worst kind of travel writing -- descriptive and
evocative as it may be in literary terms, even -- fails precisely for
the cultural blindspots. Like how observant Jews ask, annually, "how
is this night different from every other night," I think travel writers
sometimes try to make much too much of superficial or coincidental
differences....

Still, I like a travel writer who has a point of view about things. It is
precisely the point of view that makes for an interesting reading
experience. Of course, the writer has to be intelligent above all else, but
I do not mind if he is culturally determined about things. His attitude
about what he is experiencing is frequently much more engrossing than the
actual events and places he is describing. The personal opinions, and indeed
prejudices, of the travel writer always count much more for me than any
assortment of facts that is presented, no matter how interesting. That is
probably why I like Theroux so much.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, it's a hard job, in many ways.

Yes, travel writing is hard work. Anyone who thinks it is easy has never
done it.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

"Jon Meinecke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[newsgroups trimmed]

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

But I'd rather having "too carping and cynical" than "too laudatory and
'Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy,'"

Read Douglas Adam's _Last Chance to See_ for a non-fiction
take on terrestrial travel.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345371984/002-8436834-7804051?v=glance&n=283155

"...the guided tour was profoundly depressing. When we told
our guide that we didn't want to go to all the tourist places
he took us instead to the places where they take tourists
who say that they don't want to go to tourist palces.
These places are, of course, full of tourists.
Which is not to say that we weren't tourists every bit as much
as the others, but it does highlight the irony that everything
you go to see is changed by the very action of going to see it,
which is the sort of problem which physicists have been wrestling
with for most of this century."
--Douglas Adams, on visiting Bali in Last Chance to See

Jon Meinecke

Newsgroups restored.

I grew up on Richard Halliburton travel books. The genius of Halliburton was
that it was always a great struggle for him to get to a place. The getting
there was half the battle. Travel was hard and never easy back then. Of
course, he had a very Romantic view of all the places he ever went to and
wrote about. That was what made his books worth reading, at least to a young
person like myself whose head was constantly in the clouds.

The main problem with travel today is that it is just too easy to go places.
The main tourist destinations are still as worth seeing as they ever were,
but they are appreciated more if you have to risk your life and limb to get
to them.

I have always wanted to go to Timbuktu, not that there is much to see I
suspect. But it is the adventure of crossing the Sahara Desert (by camel
caravan of course) that intrigues me. But you can't just go wandering about
in the desert. You have to have a destination. Timbuktu supplies the
necessary destination, but the Romance is just in getting there. I don't
know ... it seems to me if you take the Romance out of travel, there is then
no reason to ever go anyplace. In short, it is only the Romantic imagination
that makes travel worthwhile.

As you can see from the above, I never got over reading the travels of Marco
Polo.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Edward Dolan said:

"Jon Meinecke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

[newsgroups trimmed]

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

But I'd rather having "too carping and cynical" than "too laudatory and
'Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy,'"

Read Douglas Adam's _Last Chance to See_ for a non-fiction
take on terrestrial travel.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345371984/002-8436834-7804051?v=glance&n=283155

For a very interesting cycling travel book I would strongly recommend
Round the world on a wheel: Being a narrative of a bicycle ride by
John Foster Fraser. It is perhaps a bit dated 🙂 but an excellent
read.
John Kane, Kingston ON Canada

Oh, BTW, the 'bents they used were custom-built by a Wayne Kotzur of
Canberra. He seems to have been very active in the Australian scene,
but doesn't seem to have an online presence anymore (?).

They looked like your standard USS 20/26 front-susupension 'bent, with
a mesh seat.

Now, I must again reiterate my slight disappointment with this style of
travel-writing which seems like those group tours that rush from one
point of interest to another. For example, it was a big deal for them
to have secured year-long Russian visas, but no explanation is given
for the achievement of this well-nigh impossibility, despite the very
strongly stated goal given by both authors (they take turns writing
alternate chapters, with little overlap) of inspiring others,
particularly young people, with their trip. Well, their account,
interesting as it is simply because of the story itself -- as opposed
to the art of telling it -- won't serve as some kind of how-to guide at
all, that's for sure.

As REMFs in the Army like to say: amateurs talk strategy, professionals
talk logistics. More useful than knowing their plans -- which are
mostly ad-hoc, really -- would have been to know how they handled stuff
like funding (beyond obvious stuff like family loans).

Hull 697 said:

<SNIP>

NYC, did you ever find out what brand they were riding? Appreciate the
review. Am requesting both these books through the local library
tomorrow. They are getting used to me, never a dull moment when I head
for the requests desk, occasional twinge, but they secretely enjoy the
challenge.

--
Hull 697

nowater said:

I borrowed the DVD from the local library about 2 years ago. These 2
lads were NOT tourists, they were true travellers.

Hell yeah! I kept thinking, my God, what the hell was I doing as a
twenty year-old? I was in college. The next year, feeling that
adventure was needed, I...joined the Army!

That was interesting enough, but really, I should have been truly brave
and done an expedition like these two! Bravo, chaps!

Quoted message said:

They were not
hardened travellers either, so all the more respect to them.

Actually, in the book -- though not in the film -- it is revealed
straight from the beginning that these two had some hiking and camping
trips underneath their belt before this journey. As a matter of fact,
Tim was in Finland on scholarship for some kind of wilderness guide
survival course!!! Chris had made a cross-country cycle of Australia!!
Etc.

But that doesn't discount their achievement at all, of course. My God,
it is truly inspirational when you think about it!

Quoted message said:

I watched
it 3 times, my wife once, and my daughters twice - which is a huge
recommendation, as I am the only cyclist in the family.

It's a better video than I'd expected, though it's much too short and I
hope someone sees fit for a real documentary one day...it really brings
the book to life, but, oddly enough, while it supplies what the book
misses -- visceral excitement (and I don't mean simply on account of
the visuals; let's face it; the book's just another crazyguyonabike.com
journal, really [no disrespect to crazyguyonabike.com, I hope y'all
understand]) -- it lacks what the book supplies: extended context, such
as the aforementioned fact that these two adventurers were experienced
outdoorsmen.

Really, you need the two together, both book and film, and even then
both are too short and still rather lacking...this epic really deserves
its Homer!

Quoted message said:

Real hardships, real danger, threat and fear, real sense of community
and empathy developed with the local peoples. They grew enormously
over the course of a year or so, and they survived: a true adventure.
Highly recommended.

Agreed! I must say that I was surprised to find myself enjoying the
soundtrack, too! I was afraid it was going to be elevator muzak, but,
especially towards the end, it really fitted well! David Skinner is
the composer...it just touches New Age stuff, but is mostly like folk
music -- Russian, Oriental, etc. -- and not intrusive at all.

Quoted message said:

Lots of footage of the recumbents (try riding unsuspended recumbents
down the middle of the trans siberian railway, like these boys did
when they discovered there was NO ROAD!). But it's not "about the
recumbents".

Erratum: their 'bents were front-suspended, and yes it's too bad
neither the film nor even the book goes into detail about the bikes.
With up to 200 lbs. of gear, you'd think they wanted some rear
suspension as well!

Quoted message said:

So the DVD gets a tick: suggest you try obtaining a copy.

Actually, I suggest folks buy one. I don't think you can go wrong
owning it. Very beautiful shots. Too bad, at ~53 min., it's more like
a promotional piece rather than a proper documentary which helps you
understand. As it is, it just gives a whiff, a taste, and leaves you
wondering what's around the corner.

I seriously hope someone does this adventure justice! Imagine Marco
Polo scoring but a footnote upon his return. This DVD is discontinued
and not widely available; I got my copy from HMV Australia in a few
days.

Maybe I should become a film student and contact these guys...surely
they have much more footage, really interesting stuff. As it is, this
video, while good and better than a jaded viewer like me had expected,
is still too much like only looking at pictures in the middle of the
book without reading the book itself. (Their book is also rather like
that, though; chronicling their journey properly will require a more
literary ethos.)

For example, it would make a very interesting "theme" to contrast their
Russian experiences against their limited and much shorter Chinese
ones, insofar as they had no hassle from officials in Russia/Siberia
but had trouble in China. Despite the good folks they've met in both
countries (though in or near the big city of Beijing they almost got
conned some money), I seemed to sense, at least as the video was
presented, the rather relaxed though desperately poor Russian/Siberian
peasant as compared to the fearful but relatively noveau riche Chinese
peasant.

Etc.

NYC XYZ said:

...

Erratum: their 'bents were front-suspended, and yes it's too bad
neither the film nor even the book goes into detail about the bikes.
With up to 200 lbs. of gear, you'd think they wanted some rear
suspension as well!...

With that heavy of a load, I would not want rear suspension. There will
be plenty of frame flex (at least in any production recumbent) so
suspension will not really be necessary. Suspension is also less
reliable and could be impossible to fix in the middle of nowhere.

If I were planning on doing such travels I would consider a trike such
as the Greenspeed GTR:
<http://www.greenspeed.com.au/NewGSweb/web-content/australia/models/design/gtedesgn.html>.
Note the lack of rear suspension.

--
Tom Sherman

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

With that heavy of a load, I would not want rear suspension. There will
be plenty of frame flex (at least in any production recumbent) so
suspension will not really be necessary. Suspension is also less
reliable and could be impossible to fix in the middle of nowhere.

Ah, good point...indeed, at one point, Tim's bike broke in half!
Somehow he was able to peddle along without realizing the fact until he
finally decided to investigate that weird squeaking noise...! Even
more amazing, he managed to find some friendly truckers who gave him a
lift to probably the one Polish welder in all Siberia!! Apparently
he's like the country doctor out there; people get him to weld
everything from bikes to combines....

Quoted message said:

If I were planning on doing such travels I would consider a trike such
as the Greenspeed GTR:
<http://www.greenspeed.com.au/NewGSweb/web-content/australia/models/design/gtedesgn.html>.
Note the lack of rear suspension.

And again, not to steal the thunder of their glory, but it's very
puzzling why their vehicles barely even warrant a mention in both book
and film! Especially given that Chris had cycled across Australia once
and is an avid biker...now that you mention trikes, yeah, mate, what
the heck were they thinking?? Definitely could have come in much more
handy in the snow, right? And the sands of the Gobi, even?

All in all, the video's very good, the soundtrack is nice and fits, but
it's all over much too quickly at ~53 minutes long -- great tale, but
the telling leaves much to be desired (though the two heros alternately
narrate and they do fine in that regard).

Quoted message said:

--
Tom Sherman

"NYC XYZ" wrote;

Quoted message said:

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman said:

If I were planning on doing such travels I would consider a trike such
as the Greenspeed GTR:
<http://www.greenspeed.com.au/NewGSweb/web-content/australia/models/design/gtedesgn.html>.
Note the lack of rear suspension.

And again, not to steal the thunder of their glory, but it's very
puzzling why their vehicles barely even warrant a mention in both book
and film! Especially given that Chris had cycled across Australia once
and is an avid biker...now that you mention trikes, yeah, mate, what
the heck were they thinking?? Definitely could have come in much more
handy in the snow, right? And the sands of the Gobi, even?

Well, personally I don't rate recumbents, but that's just my pov. But
recumbent trikes with 50kgs in the snow, or thesands of the Gobi? My God.
Three wheels to get bogged with no handlebars to push and even heavier. No
thanks.

You can do this type of tour on a conventional bike, and others have. Take a
look at:
http://www.mark-ju.net/

Mark and Juliette did a similar type of trip, in some fairly harsh
environments - London to Sydney; Europe, Russia, Siberia, Mongolia (incl.
the Gobi), across China, Laos, Thailand, Malaysia. A fantastic website
telling the story of an epic.

Cheers
Peter

Peter Signorini said:

You can do this type of tour on a conventional bike, and others have.
Take a look at:
http://www.mark-ju.net/

Or take a look what the Germans get up to:
http://www.mountainbike-expedition-team.de/

And the Danes:
http://www3.utsidan.se/corax-e/2002/2002ker.htm
http://www.adserballe.com/

All done on standard rigid MTBs with full panniers and BOB trailer at times.
Carrying the load for extreme cold conditions can be done as easily as on a
recumbent.

As I said, just my point of view (2c)

Cheers
Peter

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Signorini said:

You can do this type of tour on a conventional bike, and others have.
Take a look at:
http://www.mark-ju.net/

Or take a look what the Germans get up to:
http://www.mountainbike-expedition-team.de/

And the Danes:
http://www3.utsidan.se/corax-e/2002/2002ker.htm
http://www.adserballe.com/

All done on standard rigid MTBs with full panniers and BOB trailer at
times. Carrying the load for extreme cold conditions can be done as easily
as on a recumbent.

As I said, just my point of view (2c)

I agree with Peter Signorini. If the roads are bad and/or no roads at all,
you had better have an upright for your steed, and I think a mountain bike
would work best too. Recumbents really only work well on paved roads and
they are the pits climbing mountains.

You are also going to have to walk the bike from time to time because of
road and/or traffic conditions and a mountain bike is easy to walk. I
believe if I were embarking on an adventure type of bike ride in a third
world country I would definitely go with a simple mountain bike. In fact, I
would not even consider a recumbent and certainly not a recumbent trike. You
have to be practical once you get away from civilization.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Peter Signorini said:

Well, personally I don't rate recumbents, but that's just my pov.

What does it mean to "rate" a recumbent?

Quoted message said:

But
recumbent trikes with 50kgs in the snow, or thesands of the Gobi? My God.
Three wheels to get bogged with no handlebars to push and even heavier. No
thanks.

They push from behind, they push the gear, the gear's all loaded up
like a snail's portable home.

I think three wheels would have been better than two in sand and snow
simply because, yeah, there's more to push or pull, but at least your
effort can be totally focused on that one act of pushing or pulling,
not also keeping every in balance! If you see the video, you'll see
that even while they push or pull they're compensating for balance.

Quoted message said:

You can do this type of tour on a conventional bike, and others have. Take a
look at:
http://www.mark-ju.net/

Mark and Juliette did a similar type of trip, in some fairly harsh
environments - London to Sydney; Europe, Russia, Siberia, Mongolia (incl.
the Gobi), across China, Laos, Thailand, Malaysia. A fantastic website
telling the story of an epic.

Thanks for the ref! Thing is, such a journey should be comfortable,
too. If a 'bent is more comfortable, then it can only help.

So, yes, I agree with Tom Sherman that a trike would have been a better
choice of vehicle. Definitely not an upwrong! And I love my Trek
1000c; but I'd much rather slog through something on a
trike...hmmm...trikes...mmmmm...ah, better get my HP Velo Spirit and
Hase Titan-Pino first!!

Quoted message said:

Cheers
Peter

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Signorini said:

Well, personally I don't rate recumbents, but that's just my pov.

What does it mean to "rate" a recumbent?

Look up the word up in a dictionary, you jackass!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But
recumbent trikes with 50kgs in the snow, or thesands of the Gobi? My God.
Three wheels to get bogged with no handlebars to push and even heavier.
No
thanks.

They push from behind, they push the gear, the gear's all loaded up
like a snail's portable home.

It is harder than hell to push a recumbent, you jackass!

Quoted message said:

I think three wheels would have been better than two in sand and snow
simply because, yeah, there's more to push or pull, but at least your
effort can be totally focused on that one act of pushing or pulling,
not also keeping every in balance! If you see the video, you'll see
that even while they push or pull they're compensating for balance.

Quoted message said:

You can do this type of tour on a conventional bike, and others have.
Take a
look at:
http://www.mark-ju.net/

Mark and Juliette did a similar type of trip, in some fairly harsh
environments - London to Sydney; Europe, Russia, Siberia, Mongolia (incl.
the Gobi), across China, Laos, Thailand, Malaysia. A fantastic website
telling the story of an epic.

Thanks for the ref! Thing is, such a journey should be comfortable,
too. If a 'bent is more comfortable, then it can only help.

A reucumbent would not work on rough roads or no roads at all, you jackass!

Quoted message said:

So, yes, I agree with Tom Sherman that a trike would have been a better
choice of vehicle. Definitely not an upwrong! And I love my Trek
1000c; but I'd much rather slog through something on a
trike...hmmm...trikes...mmmmm...ah, better get my HP Velo Spirit and
Hase Titan-Pino first!!

Mr. Sherman does not know the first thing about what would work as a mode of
travel in a third world country. All Mr. Sherman knows is how to work like a
donkey 24 hours a day. He should quit his miserable job and do some
traveling himself and then he would learn a thing or two.

Serious travel on a recumbent trike is ridiculous! Yes, it can be done in a
nation like the US and Australia with good roads, but not in a third world
country. Certainly not in Siberia.

NYC - you are a jackass!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

Just order the video, you cheapskate, and watch Tim Cope bike his 90kg
'bent up a rocky hill at a ten-degree or so incline.

Edward Dolan said:

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Signorini said:

Well, personally I don't rate recumbents, but that's just my pov.

What does it mean to "rate" a recumbent?

Look up the word up in a dictionary, you jackass!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But
recumbent trikes with 50kgs in the snow, or thesands of the Gobi? My God.
Three wheels to get bogged with no handlebars to push and even heavier.
No
thanks.

They push from behind, they push the gear, the gear's all loaded up
like a snail's portable home.

It is harder than hell to push a recumbent, you jackass!

Quoted message said:

I think three wheels would have been better than two in sand and snow
simply because, yeah, there's more to push or pull, but at least your
effort can be totally focused on that one act of pushing or pulling,
not also keeping every in balance! If you see the video, you'll see
that even while they push or pull they're compensating for balance.

Quoted message said:

You can do this type of tour on a conventional bike, and others have.
Take a
look at:
http://www.mark-ju.net/

Mark and Juliette did a similar type of trip, in some fairly harsh
environments - London to Sydney; Europe, Russia, Siberia, Mongolia (incl.
the Gobi), across China, Laos, Thailand, Malaysia. A fantastic website
telling the story of an epic.

Thanks for the ref! Thing is, such a journey should be comfortable,
too. If a 'bent is more comfortable, then it can only help.

A reucumbent would not work on rough roads or no roads at all, you jackass!

Quoted message said:

So, yes, I agree with Tom Sherman that a trike would have been a better
choice of vehicle. Definitely not an upwrong! And I love my Trek
1000c; but I'd much rather slog through something on a
trike...hmmm...trikes...mmmmm...ah, better get my HP Velo Spirit and
Hase Titan-Pino first!!

Mr. Sherman does not know the first thing about what would work as a mode of
travel in a third world country. All Mr. Sherman knows is how to work like a
donkey 24 hours a day. He should quit his miserable job and do some
traveling himself and then he would learn a thing or two.

Serious travel on a recumbent trike is ridiculous! Yes, it can be done in a
nation like the US and Australia with good roads, but not in a third world
country. Certainly not in Siberia.

NYC - you are a jackass!

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota