Obstruction of justice.

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Italian authorities are now considering whether to open legal proceedings
against Armstrong "for sporting fraud, violence and intimidation of a
witness."

What's your source?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Italian authorities are now considering whether to open legal

proceedings

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

against Armstrong "for sporting fraud, violence and intimidation of a
witness."

What's your source?

the bible.......velonews.

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de :
news:yZyNc.172893$IQ4.117986@attbi_s02...

Quoted message said:

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Italian authorities are now considering whether to open legal

proceedings

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

against Armstrong "for sporting fraud, violence and intimidation of a
witness."

What's your source?

CICLISMO
19.11 Simeoni dai Nas, per Armstrong ipotesi di reato
Si potrebbe aprire un provvedimento d'ufficio
ROMA - I Nas del nucleo di Firenze stanno valutando l'opportunità di aprire
un procedimento d'ufficio contro Lance Armstrong a seguito dei fatti del
Tour de France nei confronti di Filippo Simeoni. Le ipotesi di reato
riguardano la frode in competizione sportiva, violenza privata e
intimidazione di testimone. Questo è quanto emerso al termine della
audizione del corridore italiano avvenuta oggi pomeriggio a Roma, durata tre
ore.

La Gazetta dello sport - http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/
--

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Italian authorities are now considering whether to open legal
proceedings against Armstrong "for sporting fraud, violence and
intimidation of a witness."

The investigators grilled Simeoni for three hours about what happened
when Armstrong chased down an early attack by the Italian on the 18th
stage of the Tour earlier this month.

In an unusual move for a race leader confronted with a rider who is no
threat to his dominance, Armstrong had chased after the Domina Vacanze
team rider who had made a breakaway and the pair exchanged words
before Simeoni later dropped back into the peloton leaving his fellow
escapees to carry on in the lead.

-----------
The chase down of Simeoni could be considered "obstruction of
justice."

I am not a lawyer, but I believe that would be a hard row to hoe. Being
that it happened outside Italy would make it even harder. But hey, if they
want to waste their time, knock themselves out.

Here is one

http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=362

"Ken Papai" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:yZyNc.172893$IQ4.117986@attbi_s02...

Quoted message said:

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Italian authorities are now considering whether to open legal

proceedings

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

against Armstrong "for sporting fraud, violence and intimidation of a
witness."

What's your source?

Callistus Valerius said:

The investigators grilled Simeoni for three hours about what happened when
Armstrong chased down an early attack by the Italian on the 18th stage of
the Tour earlier this month.

As ridiculous as it was, I could see them following up possible
intimidation in a trial I assume is out of Italy. I have a problem
with the concept of bringing charges concerning an event that was not
in their country. Is this some kind of EU thing - if one country's
authorities don't see fit to charge, just reach across national
boundaries, such as they are, and file charges yourself?

And lets have a vote - how many think that if Simeoni managed to do
the same to LA in the Giro next year, the Italian authorities would
file charges against Simeoni?

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

don't know much about law but are we now saying that Armstrong should have
allowed Simeone to win this year's TDF? Hey, it's supposed to be a race.
If we restrict actions which change results it is no longer a race but a
farce.

Simeone's a cry baby. It will be interesting to follow this one.

Ken

"Ravenwolf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Italian authorities are now considering whether to open legal
proceedings against Armstrong "for sporting fraud, violence and
intimidation of a witness."

The investigators grilled Simeoni for three hours about what happened
when Armstrong chased down an early attack by the Italian on the 18th
stage of the Tour earlier this month.

In an unusual move for a race leader confronted with a rider who is no
threat to his dominance, Armstrong had chased after the Domina Vacanze
team rider who had made a breakaway and the pair exchanged words
before Simeoni later dropped back into the peloton leaving his fellow
escapees to carry on in the lead.

-----------
The chase down of Simeoni could be considered "obstruction of
justice."

I am not a lawyer, but I believe that would be a hard row to hoe. Being
that it happened outside Italy would make it even harder. But hey, if

they

Quoted message said:

want to waste their time, knock themselves out.

"Ravenwolf" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am not a lawyer, but I believe that would be a hard row to hoe. Being
that it happened outside Italy would make it even harder. But hey, if

they

Quoted message said:

want to waste their time, knock themselves out.

Plus. they would have to prove that LA (or someone acting under his orders)
acted with the express purpose of seeking to deter Simeoni from testifying
or to do him harm specifically because of his law suit. As in someone said
in front of witnesses willing to tesify, "we're going to keep running down
your breaks & lobbing on your sorry ass until you agree not to testify
against LA."

No one, including Simeoni, has claimed that such words were spoken.

LA has claimed that it happened because Simeoni is an A-hole who has run
down the reputation of cycling through his public statements. While some
people may disagree with the fairness of his action in that context, it is
not a crime, nor would it be the first time a break has been run down
because somebody didn't like somebody else who had offended them or because
they were attacking on the last stage.

Zeno

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Italian authorities are now considering whether to open legal proceedings
against Armstrong "for sporting fraud, violence and intimidation of a
witness."

If true, the Italians (esp. Simeoni) are a bunch of wimps. Pathetic.
Jeff

Quoted message said:

The investigators grilled Simeoni for three hours about what happened when
Armstrong chased down an early attack by the Italian on the 18th stage of
the Tour earlier this month.

In an unusual move for a race leader confronted with a rider who is no
threat to his dominance, Armstrong had chased after the Domina Vacanze

team

Quoted message said:

rider who had made a breakaway and the pair exchanged words before Simeoni
later dropped back into the peloton leaving his fellow escapees to carry

on

Quoted message said:

in the lead.

-----------
The chase down of Simeoni could be considered "obstruction of justice."

"zeno" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Ravenwolf" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

Quoted message said:

news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am not a lawyer, but I believe that would be a hard row to hoe. Being
that it happened outside Italy would make it even harder. But hey, if

they

Quoted message said:

want to waste their time, knock themselves out.

Plus. they would have to prove that LA (or someone acting under his

orders)

Quoted message said:

acted with the express purpose of seeking to deter Simeoni from testifying
or to do him harm specifically because of his law suit.

Or seeking to intimidate and deter others with knowledge from coming forth
with relevent testimony of criminal activity.

<[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Callistus Valerius said:

Italian authorities are now considering whether to open legal proceedings
against Armstrong "for sporting fraud, violence and intimidation of a
witness."

Looks like Italy has its share of attention-whoring prosecutors.

Many of those Italian "attention-whoring prosecutors" died prosecuting the
Mafia and the Camorra. It seems now they are the only one after dopers and
cheaters.

Quoted message said:

And lets have a vote - how many think that if Simeoni managed to do
the same to LA in the Giro next year, the Italian authorities would
file charges against Simeoni?

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Well to be able to do so to Armstrong, Simeoni will have to make up with
Ferrari first. Or Armstrong to break up with Ferrari...it's only a bad
menage à trois story with the usual cheating involved.

Callistus Valerius said:

Italian authorities are now considering whether to open legal proceedings
against Armstrong "for sporting fraud, violence and intimidation of a
witness."

Looks like Italy has its share of attention-whoring prosecutors.

If the Italians charge Lance, it is not because he chased down Simeoni.
They are interested in the conversation that they had and how it relates to
the Ferrari trial.

You seem to imply that if charges are brought against Lance it should be
done be the French since it happened in France. However there is no Ferrari
trial in France. The trial is in Italy. That is why the Italians may want
to speak with Lance. It dosen't matter where their conversation took place,
it could have been in a restaurant, however it just so happened that it was
in public during the race. Right now nobody but Lance and Simeoni know what
was said. Who knows maybe there is nothing to the conversation, and this
will all blow over.

Maybe Lance asked Simeoni to kill his Ex-Wife. Just kidding :-) Just going
by your legal knowledge, the US prosecutors could not charge Lance with
Conspiracy to commit murder, because the conversation happened during the
Tour de France in France, but if he did it during the Tour of Geogia, he
would be in [censored].

"Curtis L. Russell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Callistus Valerius said:

The investigators grilled Simeoni for three hours about what happened

when

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Armstrong chased down an early attack by the Italian on the 18th stage of
the Tour earlier this month.

As ridiculous as it was, I could see them following up possible
intimidation in a trial I assume is out of Italy. I have a problem
with the concept of bringing charges concerning an event that was not
in their country. Is this some kind of EU thing - if one country's
authorities don't see fit to charge, just reach across national
boundaries, such as they are, and file charges yourself?

And lets have a vote - how many think that if Simeoni managed to do
the same to LA in the Giro next year, the Italian authorities would
file charges against Simeoni?

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

AC said:

You seem to imply that if charges are brought against Lance it should be
done be the French since it happened in France. However there is no Ferrari
trial in France. The trial is in Italy. That is why the Italians may want
to speak with Lance. It dosen't matter where their conversation took place,
it could have been in a restaurant, however it just so happened that it was
in public during the race. Right now nobody but Lance and Simeoni know what
was said. Who knows maybe there is nothing to the conversation, and this
will all blow over.

I specifically said that if there was intimidation related to the
trial in Italy, it would make sense. Since absolutely no one said
anything to that effect during or after the 'event', the Italian
authorities seem more inclined to impose a judgement on a racing
situation/dynamic and make it illegal because of the impact it may or
may not have on Simeoni and his psyche.

Armstrong catches the guy in front of the cycling world and has his
conversation in front of the breakaway group and there is supposed to
be the possibility of intimidation? Bull [censored]. Grandstanding twits in
suits and uniforms.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Curtis L. Russell <curtis@[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Callistus Valerius' GRRLY MAN ;) said:

The investigators grilled Simeoni for three hours about what happened when
Armstrong chased down an early attack by the Italian on the 18th stage of
the Tour earlier this month.

As ridiculous as it was, I could see them following up possible
intimidation in a trial I assume is out of Italy. I have a problem
with the concept of bringing charges concerning an event that was not
in their country. Is this some kind of EU thing - if one country's
authorities don't see fit to charge, just reach across national
boundaries, such as they are, and file charges yourself?

And lets have a vote - how many think that if Simeoni managed to do
the same to LA in the Giro next year, the Italian authorities would
file charges against Simeoni?

I suspect by next Spring it will be all over. I hope so at the very
least.
Mano-a-mano Simeoni cannot touch Lance. He's a mere domestique who
could not pass up the lure of cheating to get ahead. Fortunately there
are not too many like him in cycling.

I WOULD HOPE that Lance and Filippo can have a laugh over this by next
spring. I also hope that they do meet while racing the Giro 2005.

F it all!

-Ken, another fred in business clothes today.

I'm glad you agree that if there was intimidation related to the trial in
Italy, it would make sense.

As you can see from the following article, the Italian authorities are
interested in the conversation Simeoni had with Armstrong and other
Italinas. Armstrong has yet to be summoned. Who knows they may decide that
the conversation Simeoni had with Armstrong is of no consequence, and
Armstrong may not be summoned.
http://www.procycling.com/news.aspx?ID=362

You seem to be passing judgement on the Italian authorites before they have
even done anything. So far they have just questioned Simeoni.
Can you blame them for being suspisious, given the circumstances surronding
the situation?

"Curtis L. Russell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

AC said:

You seem to imply that if charges are brought against Lance it should be
done be the French since it happened in France. However there is no

Ferrari

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

trial in France. The trial is in Italy. That is why the Italians may

want

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to speak with Lance. It dosen't matter where their conversation took

place,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

it could have been in a restaurant, however it just so happened that it

was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in public during the race. Right now nobody but Lance and Simeoni know

what

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

was said. Who knows maybe there is nothing to the conversation, and this
will all blow over.

I specifically said that if there was intimidation related to the
trial in Italy, it would make sense. Since absolutely no one said
anything to that effect during or after the 'event', the Italian
authorities seem more inclined to impose a judgement on a racing
situation/dynamic and make it illegal because of the impact it may or
may not have on Simeoni and his psyche.

Armstrong catches the guy in front of the cycling world and has his
conversation in front of the breakaway group and there is supposed to
be the possibility of intimidation? Bull [censored]. Grandstanding twits in
suits and uniforms.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 02:12:06 +0200, "Erik Lusseault" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Looks like Italy has its share of attention-whoring prosecutors.

Many of those Italian "attention-whoring prosecutors" died prosecuting the
Mafia and the Camorra. It seems now they are the only one after dopers and
cheaters.

Why should it be a crime to use these substances ?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Erik Lusseault said:

<[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Callistus Valerius said:

Italian authorities are now considering whether to open legal proceedings
against Armstrong "for sporting fraud, violence and intimidation of a
witness."

Looks like Italy has its share of attention-whoring prosecutors.

Many of those Italian "attention-whoring prosecutors" died prosecuting the
Mafia and the Camorra. It seems now they are the only one after dopers and
cheaters.

And bravo to them. Clearly there's been some sort of perverse natural
selection at work, where the brave and noble prosecutors got murdered,
leaving only the halt and the lame to chase down...improperly negative
racing?

Sporting fraud? I'm pretty sure Lance's legs propelled him up to that
break. Intimidation? "Drop the testimony, or you'll never see a
breakaway again!" As threats go, that's...well, words fail me.

BTW, I would like to take this time to warn all of you: if I ever catch
any one of you racing negatively against me, I _will_ prosecute for
intimidation and blackmail. I don't care if you have 20 teammates and a
dying cousin in the peloton, you chase down my break and I'll file suit.

If Lance (or one of his minions, maybe Hincapie; he's a big boy) were
shoving Simeoni around behind the team trailers, that would be illegal.
If Lance had a thug "break away" one of Simeoni's legs on a training
ride, that would be worthy of prosecution. Heck, if Lance had
maliciously flicked Simeoni out of the pack, we'd have a real-live
assault case, and I'd be at the front of the mob calling for Mellow
Johnny's other nut. But we're talking about negative racing tactics
being interpreted as intimidation. I thrill at the thought of a Pro Tour
where before a rider launches a racing move, he is compelled to think of
the external context in which it might be taken.

Oh brother,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club