O/T - Trolls, Tinnitus, and Torture

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 01:46:37 GMT, Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]>

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SMC Friends -

I see that some ast trolls have begun to scurry about on SMC - folk like Ear Rings and terri231,
who have absolutely no interest in discussing cardiology topics

Like you have. All you have done, for the most part, on SMC, is TROLL Mu and Chung.

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- or anything pertaining to medicine for that matter. I guess it can't be helped - it's a result
of the voluminous cross-posting from here to there.

It's not about Xposts, Nagler, it is about your ever growing obsessions and potential psychosis.

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We at ast have learned to totally ignore trolls.

"We at AST?' . They roundly kicked your butt out of there fine newsgroup. They had your medical
license up for serious review and revocation.

lol

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(I'll try to do a better job ignoring them here.) Sometimes it's tough - but the senseless
screaming that is part of who trolls are is nothing compared to the screaming that people who
truly suffer from tinnitus must endure.

Stephen, you are a phony.

antwrp.gsfc.nasa.govap040114.htmlOpen ↗ Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Sometimes it's tough - but the

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senseless screaming that is part of who trolls are is nothing compared to the screaming that
people who truly suffer from tinnitus must endure. And nobody else hears it!!! <<<<<<<<

One of our daughter's has it, or should I say has endured it with prayers over the years. It's
easier for children, until they don't know that other people don't have it too. She once said to me,
' the ear testing lady had left her noises behind in my ears mummy' and she asked if she could give
them back. It drowns out her teachers sometimes she told me now and it effects her concentration, so
it effects her education I suspect. She doesn't mention it much about it at all nowadays. It's
either a lot better or general noise in senior school has become a blessed relief for her.

I should think that it's a problem for people who take aspirin and think that they can get away
without taking it dissolved properly. I used to notice that those elderly people I looked after who
just downed them without dissolving them sometimes were plagued with noises. Maybe some times the
answer is in the stomach lining rather than the ears.

Carol T

(Carol T) said:

One of our daughter's has it, or should I say has endured it with prayers over the years.

...............

Lots of ways to cope and endure. Prayer is helpful on many levels. I'm glad we can agree! :-)

.................

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It's easier for children, until they don't
know that other people don't have it too.

....................

That's an important point, Carol. Sometimes a kid's tinnitus bothers the parents more than the kid!

.......................

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She once said to me, ' the ear testing lady had left her noises behind in my ears mummy' and she
asked if she could give them back. It drowns out her teachers sometimes she told me now and it
effects her concentration, so it effects her education I suspect.

.......................

Tinnitus can affect concentration, to be sure. But it shouldn't "drown out" another sound - for
instance the teacher's voice. Maybe your daughter also has some degree of hearing loss.

..........................

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She doesn't mention it much about it at all nowadays. It's either a lot better or general noise in
senior school has become a blessed relief for her.

........................

Well, she apparently has accommodated or habituated. That speaks well for her ... and well for your
parenting!

......................

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I should think that it's a problem for people who take aspirin and think that they can get away
without taking it dissolved properly. I used to notice that those elderly people I looked after who
just downed them without dissolving them sometimes were plagued with noises. Maybe some times the
answer is in the stomach lining rather than the ears.

......................

I'm not aware of the stomach lining being an issue.

But the question of aspirin is pertinent to this newsgroup. Aspirin will *predictably* cause
tinnitus if taken in large enough quantities. Old-time rheumatologists used to tell their patients
to take aspirin until their joint pain went away ... or until their ears started to ring.
Fortunately aspirin-induced tinnitus resolves when the drug wears off. The question then arises,
what about taking an aspirin a day as the doctor recommends to protection against cardiac events?
Well, whether or not a person has tinnitus, it is *highly unlikely* that one aspirin a day will
induce or exacerbate tinnitus. In the rare event that it does, if the tinnitus is very mild - not a
problem. If it is bothersome, however, the doctor can suggest another agent for cardioprotection.

smn

Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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On 15 Jan 2004 04:13:58 -0800, [email hidden] (Carol T) wrote:

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>>>>> Lots of ways to cope and endure. Prayer is helpful on many

levels.

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I'm glad we can agree! :-)<<<<<<<<<<<

A few years ago on a holiday in Turkey we were taken into a Muslim Mosque on a coach trip detour
(not planned and quite intimidating). She was quite overwhelmed and distressed, and then became so
faint that we had to take her out. She said that it didn't feel right to be in there. So I'm not so
sure that prayer on any other spiritual level would ever help.

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>>>> That's an important point, Carol. Sometimes a kid's tinnitus

bothers

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the parents more than the kid!<<<<<<<<<

I asked her about it last night, she just said, 'what's the point of saying anything, the teachers
just get cross.

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>>>>> Tinnitus can affect concentration, to be sure. But it

shouldn't

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"drown out" another sound - for instance the teacher's voice. Maybe your daughter also has some
degree of hearing loss.<<<<<<<

She has in one of her ears, she also gets earache a lot and is noise sensitive to some pitches. She
has one particular female teacher that it's worse with, to the point the pain of her speaking will
give her a headache.

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>>>>>>>>>> I'm not aware of the stomach lining being an issue. But

the question of aspirin is pertinent to this newsgroup. Aspirin will *predictably* cause tinnitus if
taken in large enough quantities.<<<<<<

Does it cause less ringing if it's taken in any other way? Or do we have elderly all over the world
too rushed to dissolve it, but taking up hours of consultation time in ENT clinics? If the noise is
in the ears, maybe for 'some' the problem is in their stomachs for a variety of reasons, or even
what they are eating, not just aspirin. Who can tell?

Carol T

(Carol T) said:

A few years ago on a holiday in Turkey we were taken into a Muslim Mosque on a coach trip detour
(not planned and quite intimidating). She was quite overwhelmed and distressed, and then became so
faint that we had to take her out. She said that it didn't feel right to be in there. So I'm not so
sure that prayer on any other spiritual level would ever help.

.................

Sorry, Carol. I am having some trouble following your line of thought. I do not for one moment feel
that your daughter's praying to Allah would be of any help. I also do not feel that excluding Jesus
from her prayers would be of any help. You and she are Christians - true Christians. There is only
one type of prayer that is right for you on *any* level. And that is prayer to God through Jesus,
whom you deeply with all your heart believe to be His Son. For you and your daughter (and for
millions of others), Carol, Jesus *IS* the Son of God. I have tremendous respect for that.

My father used to say that religion is between Man and God - not between Man and Man.

..................

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I asked her about it last night, she just said, 'what's the point of saying anything, the teachers
just get cross.

....................

If you (and she) are interested, I would be pleased to speak with you by phone and possibly explore
a few "tinnitus myths." One of those myths is that a person who does not have intrusive tinnitus can
truly know what it's like to have it.

................

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She has in one of her ears, she also gets earache a lot and is noise sensitive to some pitches. She
has one particular female teacher that it's worse with, to the point the pain of her speaking will
give her a headache.

................

Lots at play here. She may not only have tinnitus, but also recruitment or possibly hyperacusis.
None of these conditions are dangerous. But they can be unpleasant. That's the bad news. They can
also be treated - that's the good news. There are no real cures (yet), but there are very effective
treatments. Although I am no longer involved in treating patients, I am fairly knowledgeable about
the treatment options.

................

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Does it cause less ringing if it's taken in any other way?

................

No. But it usually takes fairly large amounts to cause ringing regardless of how it is taken.

.................

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Or do we have elderly all over the world too rushed to dissolve it, but taking up hours of
consultation time in ENT clinics? If the noise is in the ears, maybe for 'some' the problem is
in their stomachs for a variety of reasons, or even what they are eating, not just aspirin. Who
can tell?

..................

There's a lot we know - a lot we can tell. Regarding a crushed aspirin pill, the only advantage I
can think of it that it is not apt to sit in any one area of the stomach too long - and thus might
be less irritating to the stomach. But there are "coated" aspirins that are, I believe, better in
that regard. Once absorbed, however, the therapeutic effects (and side effects) of a cruhed aspirin
are the same as if it were taken whole.

Best to you and your daughter -

smn

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Carol T

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 11:37:31 GMT, Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]>

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There is only one type of prayer that is right for you on *any* level. And that is prayer to God
through Jesus, whom you deeply with all your heart believe to be His Son. For you and your daughter
(and for millions of others), Carol, Jesus *IS* the Son of God. I have tremendous respect for that.

Nagler, you have to get out of the middle of the road. First you claim Jesus was nothing but a mere
man, no more the Son of God than Elvis was. Next, you tell Carol, and all Christians, that prayer to
Christ is "respectful".

The outright hypocrisy of these statements is glaring but, at least, consistent for you.

Using your own words, then, if I believed that Elvis was the Son of God, you would approve and
respect that prayer?

Truth is, imo, you are lying. You have no real, true respect for Christians since you belittle our
beliefs. You are a Jew through and through and this means you not only believe that we are
absolutely incorrect in claiming Christ as the Messiah, you fully support his death and crucifixion.

antwrp.gsfc.nasa.govap040114.htmlOpen ↗ Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

Mars Not M_un said:

Nagler, you have to get out of the middle of the road. First you claim Jesus was nothing but a mere
man, no more the Son of God than Elvis was. Next, you tell Carol, and all Christians, that prayer
to Christ is "respectful".

.................

For Christians it is; for me it is not.

For Christians Christ is truly the Son of God; for me Christ is no different in that respect than
all of us - we are all children of God.

.....................

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The outright hypocrisy of these statements is glaring but, at least, consistent for you.

Using your own words, then, if I believed that Elvis was the Son of God, you would approve and
respect that prayer?

..................

I respect no prayer from you under any circumstances, Mu. You pray with your lips and not with your
heart. And you are STUPID enough to think that God cannot tell the difference. What a dolt you are!

....................

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Truth is, imo, you are lying.

..........................

Truth is, your opinion ain't worth jack [censored].

smn

Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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On 16 Jan 2004 03:06:57 -0800, [email hidden] (Carol T) wrote:

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>>>>>>>>> For you and your

daughter (and for millions of others), Carol, Jesus *IS* the Son of God. I have tremendous respect
for that.<<<<

Thank you. To see the power of something that was evil to a child is not a nice experience to
witness. I am not tarring all with the same brush because we met some lovely Muslim people whom she
warmed to straight away. Children know which level they pray on through ignorance to the sins of the
adult world.

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>>>>> My father used to say that religion is between Man and God -

not

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between Man and Man.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Ummm, it's difficult to be a Jew without a mark of difference and religion is that mark of
difference between true Jews and those who are saved by The Saviour. It is between man and man in
a way because it is interacting with others, and the results of that, which leads people to God
in the end.

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>>>>>>>>>>> One of those

myths is that a person who does not have intrusive tinnitus can truly know what it's like to have
it.<<<<<<<<<<

I'll think about that, thank you

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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are no real cures

(yet), but there are very effective treatments. Although I am no longer involved in treating
patients, I am fairly knowledgeable about the treatment options.<<<<<<

We were basically told that the NHS doesn't deal with children as this tends to be an adult problem.
That was a few years ago, so she's dealt with it since.

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Best to you and your daughter<<<<<<<

Thank you.

Carol T

(Carol T) said:

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>>>>>>>>>>>> One of those

myths is that a person who does not have intrusive tinnitus can truly know what it's like to have
it.<<<<<<<<<<

I'll think about that, thank you

.............

Just to clarify. I was referring to your daughter's uncaring teachers
- not a loving mother or devoted spouse.

You might be interested in something my wife wrote ...

www.tinn.com/spouse.html

.................

Quoted message said:

We were basically told that the NHS doesn't deal with children as this tends to be an adult
problem. That was a few years ago, so she's dealt with it since.

..................

Well, here's the bottom line. Your daughter has had tinnitus for many years now. In the unlikely
event that the tinnitus was caused by something dangerous, you'd almost certainly know that by now.
Thus, at this point the tinnitus should be viewed as a nuisance rather than as a threat to health or
life. Now that is not meant to imply it is not a significant problem. It can be a HUGE nuisance ...
or a minor inconvenience ... or anything in between ... depending on numerous factors. (You can have
a puppy dog standing on your foot - or a gorilla standing on your foot. Either way, there's an
animal on your foot. But you really ought to do something if it's a gorilla!) So, if your daughter's
tinnitus is not much of an issue for her - that's great. Leave well enough alone. But if the
tinnitus is intrusive - if it is severe enough to significantly impact her life, then there are
several treatment options she might consider - not cures, but effective treatments designed to
decrease her discomfort and distress.

Hope this helps.

smn

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Best to you and your daughter<<<<<<<

Thank you.

Carol T

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Nagler, you have to get out of the middle of the road. First you claim Jesus was nothing but a
mere man, no more the Son of God than Elvis was. Next, you tell Carol, and all Christians, that
prayer to Christ is "respectful".

Stephen Nagler said:

Using your own words, then, if I believed that Elvis was the Son of

Quoted message said:

God, you would approve and respect that prayer?

..................

I respect no prayer from you under any circumstances, Mu. You pray with your lips and not with your
heart. And you are STUPID enough to think that God cannot tell the difference. What a dolt you are!

A Christless Jew, damned for eternity, is going to lecture me about Christ?

lol

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Truth is, imo, you are lying.

..........................

Truth is, your opinion ain't worth jack [censored].

Hit a nerve there, eh?

antwrp.gsfc.nasa.govap040114.htmlOpen ↗ Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

Mars Not M_un said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Nagler, you have to get out of the middle of the road. First you claim Jesus was nothing but a
mere man, no more the Son of God than Elvis was. Next, you tell Carol, and all Christians, that
prayer to Christ is "respectful".

Stephen Nagler said:

I respect no prayer from you under any circumstances, Mu. You pray with your lips and not with
your heart. And you are STUPID enough to think that God cannot tell the difference. What a dolt
you are!

A Christless Jew, damned for eternity, is going to lecture me about Christ?

lol

That same mad laughter. Note the wonderful change of subject the sad TROLL tried to pull. Stephen
pointed out what a fake M_asturbation is without reference to Jesus. M_uzzle had to make it up so he
could "score." Poor superficial M_uckle.

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Truth is, imo, you are lying.

Truth is, your opinion ain't worth jack [censored].

Hit a nerve there, eh?

Oh, wait. It's time for one of Henny Chungman's one-liners.

Only the defeated use that "hit a nerve" comment.

Pastorio

Poor woman's daughter is sufferring and some think about money.

"Stephen Nagler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Carol T) said:

Quoted message said:

>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of those
myths is that a person who does not have intrusive tinnitus can truly know what it's like to
have it.<<<<<<<<<<

I'll think about that, thank you

.............

Just to clarify. I was referring to your daughter's uncaring teachers
- not a loving mother or devoted spouse.

You might be interested in something my wife wrote ...

www.tinn.com/spouse.html

.................

Quoted message said:

We were basically told that the NHS doesn't deal with children as this tends to be an adult
problem. That was a few years ago, so she's dealt with it since.

..................

Well, here's the bottom line. Your daughter has had tinnitus for many years now. In the unlikely
event that the tinnitus was caused by something dangerous, you'd almost certainly know that by
now. Thus, at this point the tinnitus should be viewed as a nuisance rather than as a threat to
health or life. Now that is not meant to imply it is not a significant problem. It can be a HUGE
nuisance ... or a minor inconvenience ... or anything in between ... depending on numerous
factors. (You can have a puppy dog standing on your foot - or a gorilla standing on your foot.
Either way, there's an animal on your foot. But you really ought to do something if it's a
gorilla!) So, if your daughter's tinnitus is not much of an issue for her - that's great. Leave
well enough alone. But if the tinnitus is intrusive - if it is severe enough to significantly
impact her life, then there are several treatment options she might consider - not cures, but
effective treatments designed to decrease her discomfort and distress.

Hope this helps.

smn

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Best to you and your daughter<<<<<<<

Thank you.

Carol T

Ear Rings said:

Poor woman's daughter is sufferring and some think about money.

.................

What the hell are you talking about?

Do you think I am trying to get Carol to bring her daughter to my clinic? Is that what you think?

smn

You can be forgiven for you transgressions. Take Jesus into your heart.

"Stephen Nagler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ear Rings said:

Poor woman's daughter is sufferring and some think about money.

.................

What the hell are you talking about?

Do you think I am trying to get Carol to bring her daughter to my clinic? Is that what you think?

smn

Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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You might be interested in something my wife wrote ...

www.tinn.com/spouse.html<<<<<<<<<<<<

I'm sorry that you have to endure it too. I will have to ask my daughter whether she would want it
experienced by others to help them empathise, she doesn't like fuss much. I think that she's a
little ashamed of it.

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>> Well, here's the bottom line. Your daughter has had tinnitus

for many

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years now. In the unlikely event that the tinnitus was caused by something dangerous, you'd almost
certainly know that by now.<<<<<<<<<<

The earaches did worry me for a time because we have Mastoid problems in the family. My
grandmother's sister died of Mastoiditis at 19 due to lack of antibiotics those days, my mother had
to have an operation as a child and lost her hearing in one ear and a brother nearly died due to
the same thing. I probably became over concerned due to my grandmother relating the powerful event
of losing her sister during her own teenage years and then almost her own daughter(my mother)

However, I am acutely aware that deafness can drive people to distraction, and if people miss
hearing things the brain's fill-ins can often be way off track which results in all sorts of
misunderstandings, as you may well know. Although it is sad, it can have its funny moments.

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Hope this helps.<<<<<<<<<

Yes it did, thank you. Now I have looked back it's not suprising that it has concerned us in the
past, and it is important that she has her faith.

Carol T

On 16 Jan 2004 18:20:34 -0800, [email hidden] (Carol T) wrote
(in part):

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Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

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You might be interested in something my wife wrote ...

www.tinn.com/spouse.html<<<<<<<<<<<<

I'm sorry that you have to endure it too. I will have to ask my daughter whether she would want it
experienced by others to help them empathise, she doesn't like fuss much. I think that she's a
little ashamed of it.

....................

I don't think you need to ask your daughter whether she wuopld want it experienced by somebody else.
It's something YOU do only if YOU think it would help YOU. I think that was Terri's message.

.................

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... it is important that she has her faith.

..................

I could not agree more.

smn

You really haven't answered my question, Larry.

You said:

"Poor woman's daughter is sufferring and some think about money."

I asked you if you thought I was trying to somehow get her to my clinic.

smn

Have you no shame?

Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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I don't think you need to ask your daughter whether she wuopld want it experienced by somebody
else. It's something YOU do only if YOU think it would help YOU. I think that was Terri's message.

Ahh, thank you. I used to work for the elderly and know the distress it caused some of them,
especially those who have no faith :o( Often people need to know it's not simply 'in their head', so
to speak. If it's not been acknowledged seriously they can think that they are going insane, or that
they are worthless. Awareness of its distress is important for all, so you are definitely doing the
right thing by raising awareness for sufferers.

Carol T