O/T - Gandhi

Stephen Nagler said:

Elsewhere on this newsgroup the following was posted:

Quoted message said:

For Jesus says as quoted in John 14:

Quoted message said:

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except
through me..."

So I guess that means that Mahatma Gandhi - a man who studied and appreciated a variety of
religions but was a Sanatani Hindu and definitely not a believer in Christ as the Son of God -
doesn't get his place in Paradise?

If by Paradise, you mean Heaven, the answer would be "no" according to God's Word.

Satan would have you believe that Ghandi is with him in Paradise.

Satan reportedly has said:

"Better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven."

Quoted message said:

I gotta tell you, folks. I really try to be tolerant of others' beliefs. But that passage from
John 14 is undoubtedly the biggest crock of [censored] I have ever read on the Internet.

It is the Word of God. The same God who made you and, in a heartbeat, can unmake you.

Quoted message said:

And there is a LOT of [censored] on the Internet! "No one comes to the Father except through me..."
It's got to be some kind of joke, right?

No.

Quoted message said:

I'll take Gandhi's place in Paradise over Dr. Chung's in a heartbeat. (I used "heartbeat" here
because this is, after all, SMC.)

You have free will to choose where you will end up.

Quoted message said:

smn

You remain in my prayers, Stephen.

May you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior instead of Satan.

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 23:29:53 GMT, Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

So I guess that means that Mahatma Gandhi - a man who studied and appreciated a variety of
religions but was a Sanatani Hindu and definitely not a believer in Christ as the Son of God -
doesn't get his place in Paradise?

Correct although I will leave the ultimate decisions as to what was truly in MG's heart to God.

Quoted message said:

I gotta tell you, folks. I really try to be tolerant of others' beliefs. But that passage from John
14 is undoubtedly the biggest crock of [censored] I have ever read on the Internet.

I doubt that unless you are very inexperienced in Usenet/Internet surfing.

Quoted message said:

And there is a LOT of [censored] on the Internet! "No one comes to the Father except through me..."
It's got to be some kind of joke, right?

Eternal life is never a joke. Stephen.

Quoted message said:

I'll take Gandhi's place in Paradise over Dr. Chung's in a heartbeat.

We already knew that, Stephen.

antwrp.gsfc.nasa.govap971110.htmlOpen ↗ Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

MD/PhD said:

Quoted message said:

So I guess that means that Mahatma Gandhi - a man who studied and appreciated a variety of
religions but was a Sanatani Hindu and definitely not a believer in Christ as the Son of God -
doesn't get his place in Paradise?

If by Paradise, you mean Heaven, the answer would be "no" according to God's Word.

..................

By Paradise I do mean Heaven.

But Gandhi has nothing to worry about. Because Jesus' word is NOT God's word. You just don't get it.
Jesus was a Jewish man - born Jewish and died Jewish. A man. Nothing more. Nothing less. He is no
more the Son of God than Elvis is the Son of God. And just because some folk here claim he is and
jump and scream on this CARDIOLOGY forum insisting he is - does not make it so. Just because John
and Matthew say he is doesn't make it so. And all the Chung doublespeak here doesn't make it so.

Word of God? Baloney. No God I know would close the doors to Heaven and block Gandhi's entrance. Now
He might keep Dr. Chung out of Paradise for putting forth such a ludicrous statement and *claiming*
that it is the word of God. But that's another story.

smn

Volcanic Io M_un said:

Stephen Nagler said:

So I guess that means that Mahatma Gandhi - a man who studied and appreciated a variety of
religions but was a Sanatani Hindu and definitely not a believer in Christ as the Son of God -
doesn't get his place in Paradise?

Correct although I will leave the ultimate decisions as to what was truly in MG's heart to God.

Sporting of you.

Pastorio

Stephen Nagler said:

MD/PhD said:

Quoted message said:

So I guess that means that Mahatma Gandhi - a man who studied and appreciated a variety of
religions but was a Sanatani Hindu and definitely not a believer in Christ as the Son of God -
doesn't get his place in Paradise?

If by Paradise, you mean Heaven, the answer would be "no" according to God's Word.

..................

By Paradise I do mean Heaven.

But Gandhi has nothing to worry about.

Not anymore. He's dead and probably not in Heaven (it is still possible that at the last moment
before his death that he accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior and would have been thusly saved).

Quoted message said:

Because Jesus' word is NOT God's word.

Actually His Words are God's Words.

For Jesus prays for His follower as quoted in John 17:

20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their
message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they
also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the
glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they
be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as
you have loved me. 24"Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to
see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the
world. 25"Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that
you have sent me. 26I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order
that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

May God add His blessings to the writing of His Word here at SMC.

Amen.

Quoted message said:

You just don't get it.

Actually, I do.

Quoted message said:

Jesus was a Jewish man

Actually, He was half man and half God when He walked among us as a "son of man."

Quoted message said:

- born Jewish and died Jewish. A man. Nothing more.

Infinitely more as His Father is infinite. Half of infinite is still infinite.

The math is as simple as the truth.

Quoted message said:

Nothing less.

Not less at all.

Quoted message said:

He is no more the Son of God than Elvis is the Son of God.

Hardly.

Quoted message said:

And just because some folk here claim he is and jump and scream on this CARDIOLOGY forum
insisting he is - does not make it so.

It is so because it remains the truth.

Quoted message said:

Just because John and Matthew say he is doesn't make it so.

It is so because it remains the truth.

Christ anticipated your arguments and indeed had forseen it.

Jesus says as quoted in John 14:

23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will
come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does

not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own;

they belong to the Father who sent me.

Jesus is the Messiah, Stephen.

Quoted message said:

And all the Chung doublespeak here doesn't make it so.

"These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."

Quoted message said:

Word of God? Baloney. No God I know would close the doors to Heaven and block Gandhi's entrance.

God closed the doors of Noah's Ark. If Ghandi lived during Noah's time, he would have perished
during the Great Flood.

Quoted message said:

Now He might keep Dr. Chung out of Paradise for putting forth such a ludicrous statement and
*claiming* that it is the word of God. But that's another story.

"These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."

Quoted message said:

smn

You poor guy.

May you someday have the humility to accept Christ as your Lord and Savior.

You truly remain in my prayers, Stephen.

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:30:58 GMT, Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

By Paradise I do mean Heaven.

But Gandhi has nothing to worry about.

You are right. He is most probably dead in Hell.

Quoted message said:

Because Jesus' word is NOT God's word. You just don't get it. Jesus was a Jewish man - born
Jewish and died Jewish. A man. Nothing more.

You sound like Jesus Christ Superstar.

Quoted message said:

Nothing less. He is no more the Son of God than Elvis is the Son of God. And just because some
folk here claim he is and jump and scream on this CARDIOLOGY forum insisting he is - does not make
it so. Just because John and Matthew say he is doesn't make it so. And all the Chung doublespeak
here doesn't make it so.

Just b/c unbelievers like you say so does not make it not so.

Quoted message said:

Word of God? Baloney. No God I know would close the doors to Heaven and block Gandhi's entrance.
Now He might keep Dr. Chung out of Paradise for putting forth such a ludicrous statement and
*claiming* that it is the word of God. But that's another story.

Same story. different verse.

Your damned and it looks like you will take your son with you.

antwrp.gsfc.nasa.govap971110.htmlOpen ↗ Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Elsewhere on this newsgroup the following was posted:

Quoted message said:

For Jesus says as quoted in John 14:

Quoted message said:

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except
through me..."

I was given a different explanation some years ago. This statement, supposedly from Jesus himself,
refers to trinity. Liternally it means 'I am the father who represents the truth, the way and the
life', or me is the father and father and me are ONE.

FP
p.s. I am no Biblical scholar. I seldom read the Bible, and seldom go to church. I judge a person
by how much he is Christ-like rather than how well versed he is with the Bible.
====================================

Quoted message said:

So I guess that means that Mahatma Gandhi - a man who studied and appreciated a variety of
religions but was a Sanatani Hindu and definitely not a believer in Christ as the Son of God -
doesn't get his place in Paradise?

I gotta tell you, folks. I really try to be tolerant of others' beliefs. But that passage from
John 14 is undoubtedly the biggest crock of [censored] I have ever read on the Internet. And there is a
LOT of [censored] on the Internet! "No one comes to the Father except through me..." It's got to be some
kind of joke, right?

I'll take Gandhi's place in Paradise over Dr. Chung's in a heartbeat. (I used "heartbeat" here
because this is, after all, SMC.)

smn

Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

What scripts has Gandhi left to you that will lead your neighbours to the God 'you love', if you are
a true Jew in faith?

Do you love your neighbours and can serve them, that you will share Heaven with them?

Who of your neighbours would you have 'not' go to Jesus to find His light?

Jesus told the truth as a true Jew in His faith who loves his Lord God.

Carol T

Quoted message said:

Elsewhere on this newsgroup the following was posted:

Quoted message said:

For Jesus says as quoted in John 14:

Quoted message said:

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except
through me..."

So I guess that means that Mahatma Gandhi - a man who studied and appreciated a variety of
religions but was a Sanatani Hindu and definitely not a believer in Christ as the Son of God -
doesn't get his place in Paradise?

I gotta tell you, folks. I really try to be tolerant of others' beliefs. But that passage from
John 14 is undoubtedly the biggest crock of [censored] I have ever read on the Internet. And there is a
LOT of [censored] on the Internet! "No one comes to the Father except through me..." It's got to be some
kind of joke, right?

I'll take Gandhi's place in Paradise over Dr. Chung's in a heartbeat. (I used "heartbeat" here
because this is, after all, SMC.)

smn

MD/PhD said:

Quoted message said:

By Paradise I do mean Heaven.

But Gandhi has nothing to worry about.

Not anymore. He's dead and probably not in Heaven (it is still possible that at the last moment
before his death that he accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior and would have been thusly saved).

................

Probably not in Heaven? Gandhi? I suspect Elie Wiesel won't maske it either?

You are absolutely crazy, Dr. Chung.

Elsewhere you have posted about how I have discredited myself. Well if that's the case, I'm a rank
amateur next to you.

smn

Stephen Nagler said:

MD/PhD said:

Quoted message said:

By Paradise I do mean Heaven.

But Gandhi has nothing to worry about.

Not anymore. He's dead and probably not in Heaven (it is still possible that at the last moment
before his death that he accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior and would have been thusly
saved).

................

Probably not in Heaven? Gandhi?

Correct.

Quoted message said:

I suspect Elie Wiesel won't maske it either?

Though he has endured "hell" here on earth during WWII, this does not mean he will go to Heaven
when he dies.

Suffering does not erase sin.

Only the blood of Christ erases away sin.

Quoted message said:

You are absolutely crazy, Dr. Chung.

Jesus teaches as quoted in Matthew 5:

11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil
against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in
the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Quoted message said:

Elsewhere you have posted about how I have discredited myself.

You have.

Quoted message said:

Well if that's the case, I'm a rank amateur next to you.

That would be your discredited opinion.

Quoted message said:

smn

You poor guy.

May you accept Christ as your Messiah in 2004.

You remain in my prayers, neighbor.

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:13:56 GMT, Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Probably not in Heaven? Gandhi?

From all indications, no.

Quoted message said:

I suspect Elie Wiesel won't maske it either?

Maybe you know something conclusive I don't.

Quoted message said:

You are absolutely crazy, Dr. Chung.

Absolutely? Crazy? Did I miss your psychiatric background?

Quoted message said:

Elsewhere you have posted about how I have discredited myself.

Yes, I would say you have.

Quoted message said:

Well if that's the case, I'm a rank amateur next to you.

You are a rank amateur psychiatrist, of that I am certain.

antwrp.gsfc.nasa.govap010301.htmlOpen ↗ Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

SunNoM_un said:

Stephen Nagler said:

Probably not in Heaven? Gandhi?

From all indications, no.

"Indications?" From M_uck's "truth discernment" gift? Right. I think we should all take
theological advice from an anonymous trolling fake who spouts bumper sticker religion. Greeting
card religious thoughts.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I suspect Elie Wiesel won't maske it either?

Maybe you know something conclusive I don't.

The sheer tonnage of what Stephen demonstrates he knows crushes you by comparison.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You are absolutely crazy, Dr. Chung.

Absolutely? Crazy? Did I miss your psychiatric background?

You've missed too much to explain at this late date.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Elsewhere you have posted about how I have discredited myself.

Yes, I would say you have.

Zowie. M_adman says that someone *besides him* has discredited himself. Quick look up "irony" and
see if this note is in there.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well if that's the case, I'm a rank amateur next to you.

You are a rank amateur psychiatrist, of that I am certain.

Your certainty is a wondrous thing to behold. Based on the same wispy wit as your claims for
credentials and your 2PoundPOWDiet. A triumph of flaccid form over content.

Poor M_iscarriage.

Pastorio

On 12 Jan 2004 06:16:55 -0800, [email hidden] (Carol T) wrote
(in part):

Quoted message said:

Jesus told the truth as a true Jew in His faith ...

..............

Likely He did.

My problems come with the stuff people like John, Matthew, etc. *claim* He said, which likely
He didn't!

smn

Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On 12 Jan 2004 06:16:55 -0800, [email hidden] (Carol T) wrote (in part):

Quoted message said:

Jesus told the truth as a true Jew in His faith ...

..............

Likely He did.

No likely about it. Jesus is the truth.

Quoted message said:

My problems come with the stuff people like John, Matthew, etc. *claim* He said, which likely
He didn't!

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were also true Jews without any reason to lie. Indeed, they were
fearful of God and would not have been inclined to try to distort God's Word thereby incurring His
wrath. They saw what happened to Judas.

For it is written in Acts 1:

18(With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body
burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they
called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) 20"For," said Peter, "it is
written in the book of Psalms, " 'May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,'
and, " 'May another take his place of leadership.'

They also witnessed what happened to Ananias and Sapphira as written in Acts 5:

1Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property. 2With his
wife's full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at
the apostles' feet. 3Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that
you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the
land? 4Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your
disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God." 5When
Ananias heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard what had happened.
6Then the young men came forward, wrapped up his body, and carried him out and buried him. 7About
three hours later his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8Peter asked her, "Tell me, is
this the price you and Ananias got for the land?" "Yes," she said, "that is the price." 9Peter said
to her, "How could you agree to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look! The feet of the men who buried
your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also." 10At that moment she fell down at
his feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her
beside her husband. 11Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these events.

May God add His blessings to the writing of His Word here at SMC.

Amen.

Newsflash: Betray God and He will judge you at that moment and as quickly as He has made you, He can
unmake you.

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John did not betray God's Word. If they had, they believed they would have
been struck down in mid-sentence.

Indeed, if their testimonies were word for word identical, then you might have been able to make a
case for fabrication (ie they sat in a room together and agreed on exactly what happened as they
wrote their accounts) but indeed, each of the testimonies vary in a manner appropriate for
independent witnesses.

Quoted message said:

smn

You truly remain in my prayers, Stephen.

May God forgive you for not respecting/fearing Him.

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
heartmdphd.comheartmdphd.comOpen ↗

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 02:43:28 GMT, Stephen Nagler <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Jesus told the truth as a true Jew in His faith ...

..............

Likely He did.

Well, did He or didn't He? Likely doesn't work.

Quoted message said:

My problems come with the stuff people like John, Matthew, etc. *claim* He said, which likely
He didn't!

How would you know? On what basis do you make this claim.

You see, Stephen, you cannot enter these conversations with authority, especially as a Jew
commenting on NT study, which you have little of, without having your knowledge base challenged.

antwrp.gsfc.nasa.govap010301.htmlOpen ↗ Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

On 12 Jan 2004 22:56:11 -0800, [email hidden] (Dr. Andrew B.

Chung said:

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John did not betray God's Word. If they had, they believed they would have
been struck down in mid-sentence.

Especially Matthew who was writings were directed mainly at the Jewish (un)believers of the time.
His Acts are aimed at proving the lineage, one could say, from Adam through the House of David to
the Christ of Bethlehem/Nazareth.

This was not a historical exercise one would want to screw up.

Quoted message said:

Indeed, if their testimonies were word for word identical, then you might have been able to make a
case for fabrication (ie they sat in a room together and agreed on exactly what happened as they
wrote their accounts) but indeed, each of the testimonies vary in a manner appropriate for
independent witnesses.

Yes and let's not forget that there was distance between Christ's life and the production of their
works. Had to be. Impossible to write supportive documents, especially for the evolving Christian
Church, without allowing for some of the evolution to have taken place.

antwrp.gsfc.nasa.govap010301.htmlOpen ↗ Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

On 12 Jan 2004 22:56:11 -0800, [email hidden] (Dr. Andrew B.

Chung said:

May God forgive you for not respecting/fearing Him.

...............

I respect and fear God.

It's the fairy tales about Christ that I do not respect. Nor do I rerspect you for bringing them to
a cardiology newsgroup and trying to pass them off as "truth."

smn

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 06:10:21 -0500, SunNoM_un <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Stephen Nagler said:

Quoted message said:

Jesus told the truth as a true Jew in His faith ...

..............

Likely He did.

Well, did He or didn't He? Likely doesn't work.

................

Well we just don't know, now do we?

.................

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My problems come with the stuff people like John, Matthew, etc. *claim* He said, which likely
He didn't!

How would you know?

....................

Again, we just do not know.

THAT is where belief and faith come in. I respect your right to your faith. You do not respect my
right to mine.

..........................

Quoted message said:

On what basis do you make this claim.

.....................

Logic

.....................

Quoted message said:

You see, Stephen, you cannot enter these conversations with authority, especially as a Jew
commenting on NT study, which you have little of, without having your knowledge base challenged.

....................

You purposely miss my point.

Nothing new there.

smn

SunNoM_un <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

You see, Stephen, you cannot enter these conversations with authority, especially as a Jew
commenting on NT study, which you have little of, without having your knowledge base challenged.

All Jesus is to people was written in the Old Testament before His birth.

Jesus knew Himself, He was a son of the Jews, a man who had committed no sin before God or man, and
His own people allowed Him to die without protest. With all they are taught through the Word, they
allowed an innocent man to die.

It was a 'Jewish' man who died calling out for forgiveness for those who hadn't realised what they
had done. He was not a gentile. There is no question that Jesus existed historically, Roman
historians wrote about Him.

He was a Jew who was as true, and more, to His Jewish faith as any other great Jewish father or son
before Him. Which Jews shed tears for their Son?

Which Jew before or since has taught people about the meaning of true sacrifice as Abraham knew?
Which Jew has lead people to the Word where they have come to feel the pain and struggles of the
Jewish people and to know God?

If Jewish people (those who are still God fearing) still believe that He is not the saviour, it
cannot be denied that He is the way to the truth and the light for all other people. He is also
their greatest Son and He is a son they have not shed a tear for.

How can such a people be more than I am, as God wanted, whilst I know this?

How can the Jewish people recognise their saviour if they cannot even see a son?

"For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a
special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth. The LORD did
not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye
[were] the fewest of all people: But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath
which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and
redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Know therefore
that the LORD thy God, he [is] God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them
that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;" KJ Deu 7:6-9

Carol T