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NYC Road Runners

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
10 February 2005
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12 February 2005
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Doug Freese
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  1. I picked this off a different forum but thought it might provoke some
    discussion. Lance-a-little? 🙂
    -DF
    ============================================================
    For those of you that run in the Metro NYC area, I'm sure you are aware
    of
    the New York Road Runners. They put on almost all of the races in
    Central
    Park. They have an extensive race calendar through out the year,
    including
    the NYC Marathon.

    Recently, over the last few years, they have been changing long standing
    policies and procedures. They have also been complaining about not
    having a
    lot of money. They are a Not for Profit organization, so those claims
    have
    seemed reasonable.

    Their membership fees and race entry fees have increased. Benefactor
    members no longer get "free" entry to races. And Life Benefactors are
    being
    charged for race numbers. The upsetting thing is that when Life
    Benefactors
    paid the fee - $1,500 or more depending on when you joined - you were
    told
    you would get "free" entry to all races other than the NYC Marathon, and
    that included your race number. A few years ago they instituted a
    personal
    number for Life Benefactors and Chip owners. You got the same number
    for
    every race (except the NYC Marathon). They gave you a supply of them
    and
    you simply had to e-mail them when you needed more numbers.

    That's changed. You now have to purchase your numbers. They have also
    been
    complaining about not having enough money to keep the organization
    going.
    They threatened to change the rules for Life Benefactors and charge for
    most
    races.

    Remember, they complained about not having enough money to cover race
    expenses.

    Being a Not for Profit their 990 tax form is public record. Easy to
    find,
    do a search on Road Runners Not for Profit. Or just go to GuideStar.org
    and
    search on Road Runners New York. You will find two entries - New York
    Road
    Runners Foundation and Road Runners Club of America (in NYC). Click on
    the
    Road Runners Club of America (New York, NY 10128), then click on 990 and
    go
    to page 14 of 22 to find the salary paid to the President and EVP. I
    was
    shocked!

    I'm not saying they shouldn't be paid well. I'm saying, how can they
    complain about being poor when they pay their top two people well over
    $100,000 per year!

  2. Doug Freese said:

    I'm not saying they shouldn't be paid well. I'm saying, how can they
    complain about being poor when they pay their top two people well over
    $100,000 per year!

    It might be worth it, if those people were business savvy enough to run
    the organization efficiently. (obviously they aren't)

  3. the problem w/that editorial doug is that it lacks context and it's
    founded on a false premise. i know of no "begging for money" by the
    nyrr.org yes i've heard grumbling over the lifetime benefactor deal
    going out the window, however other than that...i've not heard a peep.
    what's to complain about? in context, nyrr fees are right in there
    with any running club in america...factor in this is nyc and general
    cost of living here?....it's cheaper to be a member of nyrr than most
    other running clubs i would imagine. $11/ race? where's the gripe?
    i just paid for the NYC Marathon...i think it cost me $72...not
    sure....but all things considered that's cheaper than most city
    marathons....no? agan, where' the complaint? in fact things could
    not be better w/the club. i don't see the cost of being a member and
    participating in races as a issue worthy raising and eyebrow over.

    yes...i believe allen steinfeld (ceo & RD) earns $300-$400K+. but
    he's earned it and a lot more. (and he gets more by sitting on the
    board of NYC2012 for example and other boards (olympic movement).
    steinfeld for the most part built this organization (and he's never
    actually ran the marathon himself).

    what people don't understand doug is the intricacy of nyrr as a
    business model today, and where it was when steinfeld took charge (no
    where). any president/ceo that did what steinfeld has done would be
    paid $10M/year minimum. take a look at the site, i am sure our
    members get more perks/discounts than members of any other running club
    anywhere with podiatrist, therapist, heck...even car rental! look at
    the programs, clinics, etc. and then steinfeld is negotiating and
    cuting deals with nike and asics and all sorts of sponsors, tv
    networks. he's really been a super executive that built the most
    dynamic running club in the world, bottom line, plain and simple.

    put it like this doug, from no where steinfeld has built the NYC
    Marathon to be the #1 Marathon in the world. Yes, it's bigger and
    more in demand by runners all over the world than Boston. (I think
    it surpassed Boston in 2002). I know Boston lovers and NYC haters
    don't want to come to terms with that...but it's truth. From
    basically no where Steinfeld built the world's #1 running club, #1
    marathon, richest running organization, etc....he's really done a
    dynamic job and I gotta trust in his judgement(s) on matters impacting
    members like me.

    Hey, anyone is free to start a non-profit running club today. Many
    municipalities have lacked a single running enthusiast like a steinfeld
    to develop build the running community. For example, Philadelphia is a
    major league city major league population with a rinky dink Marathon.
    Why? No "Steinfeld" figure to groom the running culture has been doing
    the work. Hence as Marathons go....the Philadelphia Marathon is hardly
    on the Map.

    I trust in Steinfeld, he's earned it. again i think in context with
    the cost of livng in manhattan....and what running clubs around the
    country cost...nyrr is one of the less expensive clubs....despite our
    clubhouse being on real estate that sells between $1,500-$2,500 per
    quare foot! (across from the Guggenheim).

  4. Doug Freese said:

    Their membership fees and race entry fees have increased.

    wah wah wah wah wah

    the entry fees are still very competitive. $11-14 for a chipped road race,
    $4 for an unchipped XC race. The track meets at the armory are free if you're
    a member of the armory or $10 otherwise.

    Quoted message said:

    Benefactor members no longer get "free" entry to races.

    wah wah wah wah wah

    They do get free entry to nearly all races. There are only a few dinky charity
    events that they don't get free entry yo.

    Quoted message said:

    And Life Benefactors are being charged for race numbers.

    I still haven't used up my first set of race numbers. I've had them for over a
    year. At this rate, they'll last me about 5 years. A replacement pack costs $5
    or so, I think. So for me, this would be $1 a year.

    again, wah wah wah wah wah ...

    Quoted message said:

    The upsetting thing is that when Life Benefactors paid the fee - $1,500 or
    more depending on when you joined - you were told you would get "free" entry
    to all races other than the NYC Marathon, and that included your race number.
    A few years ago they instituted a personal number for Life Benefactors and
    Chip owners. You got the same number for every race (except the NYC
    Marathon). They gave you a supply of them and you simply had to e-mail them
    when you needed more numbers.

    The fee is only enough to act as a deterrent against people losing their race
    numbers at nyrr's expense.

    Quoted message said:

    I'm not saying they shouldn't be paid well. I'm saying, how can they
    complain about being poor when they pay their top two people well over
    $100,000 per year!

    Maybe they have a lot of other expenses besides those salaries.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

  5. gym gravity said:
    Doug Freese said:

    I'm not saying they shouldn't be paid well. I'm saying, how can they
    complain about being poor when they pay their top two people well over
    $100,000 per year!

    It might be worth it, if those people were business savvy enough to run
    the organization efficiently. (obviously they aren't)

    I don't think you can come to such conclusions based on a single post from a
    bitter whiner.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

  6. Doug Freese said:

    I picked this off a different forum but thought it might provoke some

    Quoted message said:

    discussion. Lance-a-little? 🙂
    -DF
    ============================================================

    I run the NY marathon every year the past few.

    Having perused this newgroup for just a few days, I can't
    help but wonder how many DFs there are in rec.running.

    That creature who post by the name of Fabulust Runner certainly
    qualifies to be called a DF.

    How many other DFs are there who regularly post in rec.running?

    DF (Just another <curious> one)

  7. "DF" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Having perused this newgroup for just a few days, I can't
    help but wonder how many DFs there are in rec.running.

    There is/was only one real DF and that was me.

    Quoted message said:


    That creature who post by the name of Fabulust Runner certainly
    qualifies to be called a DF.

    Flabby is a troll and definitely deserves the title of DF!

    Quoted message said:

    How many other DFs are there who regularly post in rec.running?

    You?

    I only use it when I'm real lazy.
    DougF aka DF for brevity.

  8. How can one laud Steinfeld's contribution to the NYC Marathon without
    crediting Fred Lebow with getting the thing going in the first place?

    Bob
    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    the problem w/that editorial doug is that it lacks context and it's
    founded on a false premise. i know of no "begging for money" by the
    nyrr.org yes i've heard grumbling over the lifetime benefactor deal
    going out the window, however other than that...i've not heard a peep.
    what's to complain about? in context, nyrr fees are right in there
    with any running club in america...factor in this is nyc and general
    cost of living here?....it's cheaper to be a member of nyrr than most
    other running clubs i would imagine. $11/ race? where's the gripe?
    i just paid for the NYC Marathon...i think it cost me $72...not
    sure....but all things considered that's cheaper than most city
    marathons....no? agan, where' the complaint? in fact things could
    not be better w/the club. i don't see the cost of being a member and
    participating in races as a issue worthy raising and eyebrow over.

    yes...i believe allen steinfeld (ceo & RD) earns $300-$400K+. but
    he's earned it and a lot more. (and he gets more by sitting on the
    board of NYC2012 for example and other boards (olympic movement).
    steinfeld for the most part built this organization (and he's never
    actually ran the marathon himself).

    what people don't understand doug is the intricacy of nyrr as a
    business model today, and where it was when steinfeld took charge (no
    where). any president/ceo that did what steinfeld has done would be
    paid $10M/year minimum. take a look at the site, i am sure our
    members get more perks/discounts than members of any other running club
    anywhere with podiatrist, therapist, heck...even car rental! look at
    the programs, clinics, etc. and then steinfeld is negotiating and
    cuting deals with nike and asics and all sorts of sponsors, tv
    networks. he's really been a super executive that built the most
    dynamic running club in the world, bottom line, plain and simple.

    put it like this doug, from no where steinfeld has built the NYC
    Marathon to be the #1 Marathon in the world. Yes, it's bigger and
    more in demand by runners all over the world than Boston. (I think
    it surpassed Boston in 2002). I know Boston lovers and NYC haters
    don't want to come to terms with that...but it's truth. From
    basically no where Steinfeld built the world's #1 running club, #1
    marathon, richest running organization, etc....he's really done a
    dynamic job and I gotta trust in his judgement(s) on matters impacting
    members like me.

    Hey, anyone is free to start a non-profit running club today. Many
    municipalities have lacked a single running enthusiast like a steinfeld
    to develop build the running community. For example, Philadelphia is a
    major league city major league population with a rinky dink Marathon.
    Why? No "Steinfeld" figure to groom the running culture has been doing
    the work. Hence as Marathons go....the Philadelphia Marathon is hardly
    on the Map.

    I trust in Steinfeld, he's earned it. again i think in context with
    the cost of livng in manhattan....and what running clubs around the
    country cost...nyrr is one of the less expensive clubs....despite our
    clubhouse being on real estate that sells between $1,500-$2,500 per
    quare foot! (across from the Guggenheim).

  9. Bob, my points were in response to an editorial griping/complaining
    about nyrr organization today/now. in your post, you're speaking to
    the nyc marathon specifically and i was lauding steinfeld about nyrr
    universally including the marathon.

    Lauding Steinfeld does not mean not recognizing and or appreciating
    Lebow or Kleinerman. But if you want to address that
    topic....Steinfeld, Lebow's right-hand man and successor has always
    been "all business".....Lebow was a serious passionate runner first and
    foremost. Steinfeld is not. He's an organizer, and organization
    builder, a deal maker, etc. and so forth. Lebow was not a man of
    Steinfeld dynamism on a business level.

    The role of RD/Pres/CEO, etc. is not about being a runner yourself.
    It's about having the vision to create revenue streams, conjure
    sponsors to compete & bid to associate with you. The stuff of "this"
    was never one of Lebow's fortays. Steinfeld's been the visionary
    dealmaker buidling the organization and the events.

    The dynamism of the club & it's events today is more so a reflection of
    Steinfeld's "doing's" than anyone elses. Again, no disrespect to JK
    or FL.

  10. ah you forgot to mention Saint Fred (bowed head). How dare you.

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Bob, my points were in response to an editorial griping/complaining
    about nyrr organization today/now. in your post, you're speaking to
    the nyc marathon specifically and i was lauding steinfeld about nyrr
    universally including the marathon.

    Lauding Steinfeld does not mean not recognizing and or appreciating
    Lebow or Kleinerman. But if you want to address that
    topic....Steinfeld, Lebow's right-hand man and successor has always
    been "all business".....Lebow was a serious passionate runner first and
    foremost. Steinfeld is not. He's an organizer, and organization
    builder, a deal maker, etc. and so forth. Lebow was not a man of
    Steinfeld dynamism on a business level.

    The role of RD/Pres/CEO, etc. is not about being a runner yourself.
    It's about having the vision to create revenue streams, conjure
    sponsors to compete & bid to associate with you. The stuff of "this"
    was never one of Lebow's fortays. Steinfeld's been the visionary
    dealmaker buidling the organization and the events.

    The dynamism of the club & it's events today is more so a reflection of
    Steinfeld's "doing's" than anyone elses. Again, no disrespect to JK
    or FL.

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