Nutrition on Audaxes

vernon levy said:

What is considered to be an adequate supply of calories for 100km Audaxes?

Is it possible to ride with a calorie deficit i.e expend more calories than
are consumed?

My tips:

Stop thinking about distance, and start thinking about time. Some people
will do 100km in 3 hours and not need anything except a couple of bottles
and a banana or two. If you are out there for six hours you are going to
need rather more food. As you get faster you will then automatically eat
less per 100km as well.

Personally I'm not a big fan of energy drinks on anything except
very intense rides where it's hard to hold solid food down. You'll be
stopping at cafes anyway, so why drink sugary drinks as well? A cafe
stop, some beans on toast, energy bars/ceral bars (I use geobars) and/or
some bananas on the ride.

I work on one bit of food per hour - so one banana or a energy bar. Add
food at the stops and you should be fine. Make sure that what you eat at
the stops is easily digested. Beans on wholewheat toast or similar.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What is considered to be an adequate supply of calories for 100km Audaxes?

You should not need an enormous number of additional calories on a 100. Half strength energy drink (or less) is enough. Perhaps one energy bar at half way. Keeps the digestive system working, which is very important, otherwise everything you take in stays in your stomach instead of being absorbed. You probably got near to bonking because you were working a bit too hard.

I used to eat loads on audaxes until I started riding with an East German girl who thought nothing of doing a 300 on 4 or 5 rounds of dry rye bread washed down with plain water. I was shamed into trying it and it worked just as well as sitting in cafes all day.

You got round. Keep getting the miles in and next time you'll get round a bit easier.

Keith Harrison

Dunno. But you should be eating something at least every 1 1/2 hrs. Isn't
that about the maximum amount of energy the body can store as glycogen? Or
something.

"Simon Bennett" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dunno. But you should be eating something at least every 1 1/2 hrs. Isn't
that about the maximum amount of energy the body can store as glycogen? Or
something.

You have about 2 hrs exercise worth of glycogen stored in your muscles, plus
a bit in the blood and liver. After that is used up, you have to replace it
with a regular carb intake. Of course, you have an enormous reserve of
calories stored as fat, but despite what the Atkins lot advise, your body
doesn't like running on fat alone. Personally, I like fajitas, bananas, fig
rolls, go bars, plus jelly babies for a quick hit of sugar.

--
Simon Mason
http://www.simonmason.karoo.net

Simon Mason said:

You have about 2 hrs exercise worth of glycogen stored in your muscles, plus
a bit in the blood and liver. After that is used up, you have to replace it
with a regular carb intake. Of course, you have an enormous reserve of
calories stored as fat, but despite what the Atkins lot advise, your body
doesn't like running on fat alone. Personally, I like fajitas, bananas, fig
rolls, go bars, plus jelly babies for a quick hit of sugar.

And from what I remember (I really should know for certain -
Biochemistry degree an' all that!) after a certain period of using not
much other glycogen, your body will start using fat as a proportion of
the fuel anyway. This was something I worried about for a while, but
eventually I discovered that it was better to eat more while riding and
ride more, than to worry about the food intake and thus bonk on rides.
If you want to lose weight you're as well to be looking at your overall
calorie intake on a (for example) weekly basis vs energy expenditure in
the same period than worrying about intake while riding.

[Important note: This advice comes with no guarantees and is based on
personal experience and a possibly faulty memory - you have been
warned!!!] You might want to consider eating lower levels of carbs at
normal meals (ie not carbo loading before rides) and upping your food
intake while riding. If you carry some highly sugary stuff for
emergencies (Mars bar if you can stomach it) and the bananas / dried
fruit / muesli bars etc of choice for general consumption, you can be
reasonably sure that you're using te energy as it becomes available and
not putting it down as fats.

Jon

"Arthur Clune" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

vernon levy said:

What is considered to be an adequate supply of calories for 100km
Audaxes?

Is it possible to ride with a calorie deficit i.e expend more calories
than
are consumed?

My tips:

Stop thinking about distance, and start thinking about time. Some people
will do 100km in 3 hours and not need anything except a couple of bottles
and a banana or two. If you are out there for six hours you are going to
need rather more food. As you get faster you will then automatically eat
less per 100km as well.

Personally I'm not a big fan of energy drinks on anything except
very intense rides where it's hard to hold solid food down. You'll be
stopping at cafes anyway, so why drink sugary drinks as well? A cafe
stop, some beans on toast, energy bars/ceral bars (I use geobars) and/or
some bananas on the ride.

I work on one bit of food per hour - so one banana or a energy bar. Add
food at the stops and you should be fine. Make sure that what you eat at
the stops is easily digested. Beans on wholewheat toast or similar.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

My sister and I did the kKnnet valley 100k on sSaturday. not being quite as
fast as Arthur we took six hours. I had tea and a hot cross bun for
breakfast at 7.00 and tea before the start. We stopped at the first info
about 10.30 and had another bun then tea and a flapjack at the halfway.
Beans/spaghetti at the finish. I got through nearly 2 bottles of drink a
60/40 mix of orange juice and water ( in summer its 50/50) and that did me
until an evening meal at home. So for me it's little and fairly often. I
think it's probably more important to drink enough than eat enough even in
the cold weather. As regards the calorie expenditure think of it as part of
the exercise you need to up your basal metabolic rate rather than what you
need on the day to keep moving.

HTH
Julia

Quoted message said:

Stop thinking about distance, and start thinking about time. Some people
will do 100km in 3 hours and not need anything except a couple of bottles
and a banana or two. If you are out there for six hours you are going to
need rather more food. As you get faster you will then automatically eat
less per 100km as well.

100km and six hours go hand in hand at the moment .......

I got things wrong today. A decent breakfast, two bananas, a chunk of flap
jack and a third of a malt loaf was not enough. The malt loaf put some
oomph back in my legs for the last 10 miles.

Quoted message said:

Personally I'm not a big fan of energy drinks on anything except
very intense rides where it's hard to hold solid food down. You'll be
stopping at cafes anyway, so why drink sugary drinks as well? A cafe
stop, some beans on toast, energy bars/ceral bars (I use geobars) and/or
some bananas on the ride.

Things were looking a bit too tight for me to linger in cafes
today....missed the cake...oops I confess - I am a member of the CTC ....

Quoted message said:

I work on one bit of food per hour - so one banana or a energy bar. Add
food at the stops and you should be fine. Make sure that what you eat at
the stops is easily digested. Beans on wholewheat toast or similar.

Right, that's six 'nanas plus emergency rations for next weekend's mesh
ride.....

Quoted message said:

cheers

vernon

Quoted message said:

You have about 2 hrs exercise worth of glycogen stored in your muscles,
plus a bit in the blood and liver. After that is used up, you have to
replace it with a regular carb intake. Of course, you have an enormous
reserve of calories stored as fat, but despite what the Atkins lot advise,
your body doesn't like running on fat alone. Personally, I like fajitas,
bananas, fig rolls, go bars, plus jelly babies for a quick hit of sugar.

I already 'do' bananas but jelly babies.....I could go for those

Quoted message said:

And from what I remember (I really should know for certain -
Biochemistry degree an' all that!) after a certain period of using not
much other glycogen, your body will start using fat as a proportion of
the fuel anyway. This was something I worried about for a while, but
eventually I discovered that it was better to eat more while riding and
ride more, than to worry about the food intake and thus bonk on rides.
If you want to lose weight you're as well to be looking at your overall
calorie intake on a (for example) weekly basis vs energy expenditure in
the same period than worrying about intake while riding.

I am looking at my weekly eating habits as well as my riding diet. I though
that I'd have lost weight last year on my LEJOG but was so preoccupied with
avoiding the bonk that I lost only a few pounds. i'm sure though that I'd
gained more muscle tissue and lost some fat.....

I now want to lose more fat and am hoping to stick with moving more and
eating less as a general guidline.

cheers

vernon

"Keeff57" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You should not need an enormous number of additional calories on a 100.
Half strength energy drink (or less) is enough. Perhaps one energy bar
at half way. Keeps the digestive system working, which is very
important, otherwise everything you take in stays in your stomach
instead of being absorbed. You probably got near to bonking because you
were working a bit too hard.

That's a starvation diet!

I have to work hard, I'm hauling a barrow load of lard around with me - I
weigh 130kg

Quoted message said:

I used to eat loads on audaxes until I started riding with an East
German girl who thought nothing of doing a 300 on 4 or 5 rounds of dry
rye bread washed down with plain water. I was shamed into trying it and
it worked just as well as sitting in cafes all day.

That's German efficiency for you ;-)

Quoted message said:

You got round. Keep getting the miles in and next time you'll get round
a bit easier.

I got round but it was a bit of a struggle when I didn't expect it to be.
I've started my audax rides this year 14 weeks earlier than last year and
I've had a longer than anticipated layoff. I'm prepared to write off some
of the leaden legs feelings to unfitness but I know I came close to bonking
today...the symptoms were all there...

I'll certainly be getting the miles in - I'll be riding an Audax just about
every wekend between now and July with five or six 200km ones from May
onwards

Me losing some lard will be a great aid to upping the pace....

vernon levy said:

What is considered to be an adequate supply of calories for 100km Audaxes?

I don't know - I'm not sure there is a simple answer to a question like
that. "Enough to stop you feeling hungry" would be my estimate - pangs
of hunger are your body's way of telling you to give it more fuel.

Quoted message said:

Is it possible to ride with a calorie deficit i.e expend more calories than
are consumed?

Not unless the laws of physics have changed recently (your body cannot
create energy).

You store energy in your body in the form of glycogen. Once you have run
out of glycogen, you will start to break down the muscle tissue to
create more.

So, you need to keep your glycogen levels topped up - this is what the
energy drink is for: supposedly a more efficient way of topping up your
energy than other forms of calories, such as cake. But I bet it doesn't
taste nearly as good as cake.

If I need a fast-acting energy fix, ie when bonking, I use Squeezy gels,
but most of the time I prefer to eat proper food. You may have noticed
the fondness for beans on toast and rice pudding among your fellow
audaxers. This is no coincidence.

On the Kennett Valley 200 yesterday, the lunch control was in an
excellent cyclist-friendly cafe (in Bratton, Wiltshire). Plates heavily
laden with beans on toast were flying out of the kitchen as fast as they
could spoon them out. They must have got through a dozen catering size
tins of beans, I reckon.

Quoted message said:

I get through three litres of an energy drink with around 300 kcal/litre on
the ride plus some water - I don't think I have a problem with hydration.

With that much fluid, you're more likely to have a problem with drowning.

d.

vernon levy said:

"Keeff57" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You should not need an enormous number of additional calories on a 100.
Half strength energy drink (or less) is enough. Perhaps one energy bar
at half way. Keeps the digestive system working, which is very
important, otherwise everything you take in stays in your stomach
instead of being absorbed. You probably got near to bonking because you
were working a bit too hard.

That's a starvation diet!

I have to work hard, I'm hauling a barrow load of lard around with me - I
weigh 130kg

Quoted message said:

When I was younger and lighter I'd get up in the morning, down a couple
of slices of toast and ride 50 miles round the North Downs in three
hours with a stop for a mars bar.

These days I'd faint on such a diet as I am significantly heavier,
slower and less fit.

It would probably help if those commenting on 'I do X' could give a
benchmark of just how much they are lugging aorund the roads. My all up
mass is probably equivalent to a heaviliy laden touring whippet..
Vernon makes me feel like a svelte lightweight though my times are only
marginally quicker than his.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You got round. Keep getting the miles in and next time you'll get round
a bit easier.

I got round but it was a bit of a struggle when I didn't expect it to be.
I've started my audax rides this year 14 weeks earlier than last year and
I've had a longer than anticipated layoff. I'm prepared to write off some
of the leaden legs feelings to unfitness but I know I came close to bonking
today...the symptoms were all there...

Quoted message said:

I'll certainly be getting the miles in - I'll be riding an Audax just about
every wekend between now and July with five or six 200km ones from May
onwards

Goodness me that is a tough schedule. I remember doing a mountains trip
(walking) every other weekend, and that was about as much as I could
cope with as a fit and healthy young man.

Quoted message said:

Me losing some lard will be a great aid to upping the pace....

I can empathise with that..

...d

davek said:

your body cannot create energy.

Well "energy can not be created or destroyed" but it can be converted
(think that's what he means) body fat converted into energy to make up
the unbalance of input calories to used calories.
--
This post contains no hidden meanings, no implications and certainly no
hidden agendas so it should be taken at face value. The wrong words
may be used this is due to my limitations with the English language .

soup said:

davek said:

your body cannot create energy.

Well "energy can not be created or destroyed" but it can be converted
(think that's what he means) body fat converted into energy to make up
the unbalance of input calories to used calories.

I have this completely unfounded theory that for short periods (under
an hour) of moderate to intense activity, the ensuing dehydration aids
in fat burning. The theory goes that in order for the body to make up
the loss in water, it will burn fat resulting in carbon dioxide and
water, with a little bit of phosphate thrown in for good measure. The
phosphate of course can be recycled into ATP for more energy.

...d

Quoted message said:

When I was younger and lighter I'd get up in the morning, down a couple
of slices of toast and ride 50 miles round the North Downs in three
hours with a stop for a mars bar.

A mars bar!? You were lucky! As a lad I had to make do with licking the
insides of discarded crisp packets on my rides.

Quoted message said:

These days I'd faint on such a diet as I am significantly heavier,
slower and less fit.

It's scary lookng at pictures of me in my youth. I'm literally twice the
man I used to be....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'll certainly be getting the miles in - I'll be riding an Audax just
about
every wekend between now and July with five or six 200km ones from May
onwards

Goodness me that is a tough schedule. I remember doing a mountains trip
(walking) every other weekend, and that was about as much as I could
cope with as a fit and healthy young man.

I've discovered the Eastern Peaks and Plains Mesh and the DIY Audaxes of
Sheila Simpson. It means that I can organise rides on my doorstep though it
will not stop my riding in calendered events too. Amazingly, my wife is
supportive as the rides get me out of the house and from underneath her
feet, I get fitter and hopefully lighter and our kids have a more peaceful
life without me around to tease them endlessly.

Although I winged about today's ride, it was not as challenging as last
weeks Mini NW 120km Audax it just felt that way caused by poor nutrition. I
feel a lot fresher than I did last week and should be even fresher next week
as I know the ride is definitely flatter and will leave me fresh for the
Birdwell Wheelers Audax the week after that. I might even take my road bike
instead of my Galaxy for that one.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Me losing some lard will be a great aid to upping the pace....

I can empathise with that..

It's a shame food is sooooooooo tasty and I like everything that I
cook......

soup said:

Well "energy can not be created or destroyed" but it can be converted
(think that's what he means) body fat converted into energy to make up
the unbalance of input calories to used calories.

I'm not sure it works like that - AIUI you're more likely to make up the
energy deficiency by breaking down muscle tissue rather than fat.

You may be able to get away with putting less into your body than you
use during the ride, but only if you already have a decent amount of
energy in your glycogen reserves - ie energy that you have previously
put into your body, so it doesn't really count as a calorie "deficiency".

When glycogen runs low, you really do need to top it up by eating and/or
drinking high-energy food (carbs).

d.

davek said:

Quoted message said:

I get through three litres of an energy drink with around 300 kcal/litre on
the ride plus some water - I don't think I have a problem with hydration.

With that much fluid, you're more likely to have a problem with drowning.

3l in six hours isn't a lot. Except in high summer I work on one 750ml
bottle/hr so I would easily have 3l in six hours. Of course, liquid
drunk at cafes would count towards that.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

vernon levy said:

I got things wrong today. A decent breakfast, two bananas, a chunk of flap
jack and a third of a malt loaf was not enough. The malt loaf put some
oomph back in my legs for the last 10 miles.

Indeed. My my rule of thumb that's four or maybe five bits of food (depending
on how much malt loaf it is). The other advantage of working things out
in 'bits per hour' is that it reminds you to eat every hour. Two bananas
after two hours is not the same as one banana every hour.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune

Arthur Clune said:

3l in six hours isn't a lot.

Please allow me my facetious quips!

No, you're right, it's not excessive at all. I wish I would remember to
drink as much, but I never do - and often suffer for it.

d.