Nutrition for longer rides

Quoted message said:

I'm trying to increase my ride mileage this year which, among other
things, involves determining the best way to meet calorie requirements
for long rides. I've read "The Cyclist's Food Guide", but still have a
couple questions.

Is it important, particularly on a multi-day ride, to replace all the
calories that you burn? Or, what is an appropriate and sustainable
calorie deficit over a 3-4 day ride?

I would say that depends upon whether you want to lose weight, and what
your proposed exertion level will be. At lower levels of exertion, fat
from your body will be a large portion of you fuel. Higher exertion
levels will require additional carbohydrates, which should be replaced
if you intend to keep the same pace.

Quoted message said:

For larger riders, what foods have you found that provide sufficient
nutrition and energy for long (400K - 600K) single day rides while
still being palatable? Based on the charts I've found, this represents
a 25,000 - 30,000 calorie expenditure for a 200 pound cyclist.

I am 230lbs and on long group rides I always expend more calories than
my riding partners who are smaller. They sometimes suggest skipping
some meals, but being larger, the calories usage is so much more for
me, that is not a good idea. It may work for smaller folks, but larger
folks use way more gas. I usually pack honey sandwiches with the crusts
cut off. Those seem to go down pretty good on the roll and are somewhat
easy to handle. For more calories I'd add some peanut butter, but I
hate it. I also try to have at least one bottle filled with a
sports-drink, or fruit-juice to get some calories there. 2 would be
ideal, but squirting fruit-juice over ones head when hot isn't very
pleasant.

I have used these two sites to gather info I have used succesfully on
fast long rides:

http://www.ultracycling.com/nutrition/calories.html
http://www.nutritiondata.com/

Are you preparing for a specific event or your own tour?

Joseph

Quoted message said:

I'm trying to increase my ride mileage this year which, among other
things, involves determining the best way to meet calorie requirements
for long rides. I've read "The Cyclist's Food Guide", but still have a
couple questions.

Is it important, particularly on a multi-day ride, to replace all the
calories that you burn? Or, what is an appropriate and sustainable
calorie deficit over a 3-4 day ride?

For larger riders, what foods have you found that provide sufficient
nutrition and energy for long (400K - 600K) single day rides while
still being palatable? Based on the charts I've found, this represents
a 25,000 - 30,000 calorie expenditure for a 200 pound cyclist.

This thread elaborates upon caloric estimates (after the first few
posts):

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.bicycles.tech/browse_thread/thread/b5b0fc3ae874fe10/95931be83ddf4021

Joseph

Quoted message said:

I'm trying to increase my ride mileage this year which, among other
things, involves determining the best way to meet calorie requirements
for long rides. I've read "The Cyclist's Food Guide", but still have a
couple questions.

Is it important, particularly on a multi-day ride, to replace all the
calories that you burn? Or, what is an appropriate and sustainable
calorie deficit over a 3-4 day ride?

For larger riders, what foods have you found that provide sufficient
nutrition and energy for long (400K - 600K) single day rides while
still being palatable? Based on the charts I've found, this represents
a 25,000 - 30,000 calorie expenditure for a 200 pound cyclist.

Thanks -- I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Sam

It's not necessary to replace all the calories you burn, even on a
multi-day ride. Below maximum intensity (typical for all-day riding),
you burn mostly fats, which most people have in abundance. A typical
strategy is to eat what you can while riding and tank up at dinner for
the next day.

My longest single-day rides have been 400K -- I've done a few. I'm 230
(6'10"😉, so I'd say my caloric needs would be higher than average, but I
think your 25-30,00Kcal estimates to be way high. That's 10x average
daily eating. I've estimated my 400K expenditures more like 10,000Kcal.
I eat perhaps 2x normal calories on long multi-day rides and expect to
lose a pound or so a day. Unless you have ultra-low body fat a deficit
isn't a problem.

Most of the real "ultra" cyclists, like those who do RAAM, switch to
mostly liquid diets (Ensure, etc.), just to handle the digestion issues.
In practice, it's much harder to keep up with fluids, so that's another
benefit of liquid foods. Logistically this can present a problem as the
stuff is too heavy to carry and is difficult to mix as you need while on
the road, so it isn't really a practical solution for most distance
cycling -- besides it tastes like [censored].

Three meals a day, with ample carbohydrates, is usually enough to keep
up with needs. My favorite "on the road" foods are things like chocolate
milk, fruit juices, puddings and yogurt -- stuff you can find at
convenience stores, with plenty of carbs plus being cold and wet.

Quoted message said:

I'm trying to increase my ride mileage this year which, among other
things, involves determining the best way to meet calorie requirements
for long rides. I've read "The Cyclist's Food Guide", but still have a
couple questions.

Is it important, particularly on a multi-day ride, to replace all the
calories that you burn? Or, what is an appropriate and sustainable
calorie deficit over a 3-4 day ride?

For larger riders, what foods have you found that provide sufficient
nutrition and energy for long (400K - 600K) single day rides while
still being palatable? Based on the charts I've found, this represents
a 25,000 - 30,000 calorie expenditure for a 200 pound cyclist.

Thanks -- I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Suggestion: accept that you'll be running at a deficit for these events. You
simply cannot consume and properly absorb the amounts of water and energy you
expend during the ride.

Just how tall are you that you're concerned about maintaining a 200 pound
weight?

Ron

Quoted message said:

I'm trying to increase my ride mileage this year which, among other
things, involves determining the best way to meet calorie requirements
for long rides. I've read "The Cyclist's Food Guide", but still have a
couple questions.

Is it important, particularly on a multi-day ride, to replace all the
calories that you burn? Or, what is an appropriate and sustainable
calorie deficit over a 3-4 day ride?

For larger riders, what foods have you found that provide sufficient
nutrition and energy for long (400K - 600K) single day rides while
still being palatable? Based on the charts I've found, this represents
a 25,000 - 30,000 calorie expenditure for a 200 pound cyclist.

Thanks -- I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Sam

No suggestions, just a nasty tale of *extremely* poor
hydration/nutrition management. Doing an unsupported century in the
first real heat of the summer in WI and started to feel a bit off. Not
eating nor drinking properly, although I did have cytomax in the
bottles with a little added salt. Did 42 miles of hills and then
stopped in a small town on the IronMan WI route.

Ate a banana, had some Gatorade as well. Rode with some friends back
toward Madison and started to feel really bad. Decided to turn back
home and turn the century into an 80 miler. Stopped along the way to
grab a coke for some energy and forgot to flatten it (shake out the
carbonation, something my ultramarathoner brothers suggest) and the
carbonation hit me like a fist to the gut. Now I'm really hurting.
Got back on the bike and headed home into a moderate headwind.
Discomfort is now such that I can only go about 12 on the flats.
Stomach very unsteady. Get into the small town about five miles north
of home and now I feel just awful. Stop in the town park and drink
some water. Does NOT help.

Get back on the bike for the final grind (which includes a 2.5 mile
climb to our house at the top of a ridge) and feel worse. I am about
half a mile out of town when I just start vomiting from the bike.
Manage to keep going and ride while I empty my stomach. Perhaps I
should have stopped?

Stop three times on the climb to the house. Continue vomiting at home
for an hour or so afterwards when I put anything in the stomach.

Since then I have started drinking at appropriate intervals, taking
electrolytes via Endurolyte caplets, and eating properly. I am
capable of learning, it just takes a hard lesson. No problems since.
And no cramping post-ride either!

D'ohBoy

Quoted message said:

I'm trying to increase my ride mileage this year which, among other
things, involves determining the best way to meet calorie requirements
for long rides. I've read "The Cyclist's Food Guide", but still have a
couple questions.

Is it important, particularly on a multi-day ride, to replace all the
calories that you burn? Or, what is an appropriate and sustainable
calorie deficit over a 3-4 day ride?

For larger riders, what foods have you found that provide sufficient
nutrition and energy for long (400K - 600K) single day rides while
still being palatable?

You got to work up to the rides (200,300k brevets) to figure out what
works for you and your digestive system. Various mix-up drinks work
for some, some of the time. Spizz, Carboplex, etc. Eating early and
often before the inevitable digestive problems set in can work. Its
what I have to do. My stomach just stops processing fluids and food
and will not accept anymore a bit before the 300k mark if I am riding
at a solid pace. If I muck about and ride slowly the digestive
problems don't surface. But I don't like to ride long rides slowly, so
I try not to. Experience, doing the riding, will tell you what to do
and which foods work best for you. Then figure out how to cope with
your personal issues, if its possible. If you are considering 400 and
600k brevets, you had better already have many 200 and 300 brevets to
figure things out.

Based on the charts I've found, this represents

Quoted message said:

a 25,000 - 30,000 calorie expenditure for a 200 pound cyclist.

Thanks -- I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Sam

D'ohBoy said:

No suggestions, just a nasty tale of *extremely* poor
hydration/nutrition management. Doing an unsupported century in the
first real heat of the summer in WI and started to feel a bit off. Not
eating nor drinking properly, although I did have cytomax in the
bottles with a little added salt. Did 42 miles of hills and then
stopped in a small town on the IronMan WI route.

Ate a banana, had some Gatorade as well. Rode with some friends back
toward Madison and started to feel really bad. Decided to turn back
home and turn the century into an 80 miler. Stopped along the way to
grab a coke for some energy and forgot to flatten it (shake out the
carbonation, something my ultramarathoner brothers suggest) and the
carbonation hit me like a fist to the gut. Now I'm really hurting.
Got back on the bike and headed home into a moderate headwind.
Discomfort is now such that I can only go about 12 on the flats.
Stomach very unsteady. Get into the small town about five miles north
of home and now I feel just awful. Stop in the town park and drink
some water. Does NOT help.

Get back on the bike for the final grind (which includes a 2.5 mile
climb to our house at the top of a ridge) and feel worse. I am about
half a mile out of town when I just start vomiting from the bike.
Manage to keep going and ride while I empty my stomach. Perhaps I
should have stopped?

Stop three times on the climb to the house. Continue vomiting at home
for an hour or so afterwards when I put anything in the stomach.

Since then I have started drinking at appropriate intervals, taking
electrolytes via Endurolyte caplets, and eating properly. I am
capable of learning, it just takes a hard lesson. No problems since.
And no cramping post-ride either!

A friend had a similar experience during a hot double century. He was no
stranger to rides of this length, but spent the last 60 miles riding
slowly and vomiting. I have had some nausea while riding long hot ones,
but nothing to that degree. For me, the turning point seems to come when
I lose my sense of thirst. It seems like fluids stop getting absorbed
and just slosh around in the stomach. I've since started carrying salt
capsules on rides like these and haven't had such nausea when I take
them when I find my thirst diminishing.

Quoted message said:

You got to work up to the rides (200,300k brevets) to figure out what
works for you and your digestive system. Various mix-up drinks work
for some, some of the time. Spizz, Carboplex, etc. Eating early and
often before the inevitable digestive problems set in can work. Its
what I have to do. My stomach just stops processing fluids and food
and will not accept anymore a bit before the 300k mark if I am riding
at a solid pace.

My experience is similar, but a friend has been told that even when all
else starts to "taste bad," you can always get a York Peppermint Patty
down. Sounds interesting, but I haven't tried it.

Mark

Peter Cole said:

Quoted message said:

I'm trying to increase my ride mileage this year which, among other
things, involves determining the best way to meet calorie requirements
for long rides. I've read "The Cyclist's Food Guide", but still have a
couple questions.

Is it important, particularly on a multi-day ride, to replace all the
calories that you burn? Or, what is an appropriate and sustainable
calorie deficit over a 3-4 day ride?

For larger riders, what foods have you found that provide sufficient
nutrition and energy for long (400K - 600K) single day rides while
still being palatable? Based on the charts I've found, this represents
a 25,000 - 30,000 calorie expenditure for a 200 pound cyclist.

Thanks -- I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Sam

It's not necessary to replace all the calories you burn, even on a
multi-day ride. Below maximum intensity (typical for all-day riding),
you burn mostly fats, which most people have in abundance. A typical
strategy is to eat what you can while riding and tank up at dinner for
the next day.

My longest single-day rides have been 400K -- I've done a few. I'm 230
(6'10"😉, so I'd say my caloric needs would be higher than average, but I
think your 25-30,00Kcal estimates to be way high. That's 10x average
daily eating. I've estimated my 400K expenditures more like 10,000Kcal.
I eat perhaps 2x normal calories on long multi-day rides and expect to
lose a pound or so a day. Unless you have ultra-low body fat a deficit
isn't a problem.

I'm curious how you come up with the 10K Kcal estimates? A couple
guidelines I've seen are:

* 5.5 KCal per pound per hour (~1100 KCal/hr for a 200 pound cyclist),
from the cyclists food guide
* 65 calories per mile for a 200 pound cyclist (24K KCal for a 600K) --
I forget the source of this, but it largely jives with the figure above

Quoted message said:

Most of the real "ultra" cyclists, like those who do RAAM, switch to
mostly liquid diets (Ensure, etc.), just to handle the digestion issues.
In practice, it's much harder to keep up with fluids, so that's another
benefit of liquid foods. Logistically this can present a problem as the
stuff is too heavy to carry and is difficult to mix as you need while on
the road, so it isn't really a practical solution for most distance
cycling -- besides it tastes like [censored].

I've taken to drinking a couple bottles of ensure plus in the morning
before a ride, for a quick 700 calorie boost. It's way too thick for me
to drink when I'm riding, though, so I usually wind up with gatorade,
which at ~200 calories per water bottle isn't particularly energy
dense.

Quoted message said:

Three meals a day, with ample carbohydrates, is usually enough to keep
up with needs. My favorite "on the road" foods are things like chocolate
milk, fruit juices, puddings and yogurt -- stuff you can find at
convenience stores, with plenty of carbs plus being cold and wet.

Yogurt is a great idea.. Previously I'd just been looking for cheap
calories, like jelly beans on the assumption that I just needed
anything with energy, but a fellow rider recently informed me that
cheap calories weren't good calories.

Thanks for the tips,
Sam

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

I'm trying to increase my ride mileage this year which, among other
things, involves determining the best way to meet calorie
requirements for long rides. I've read "The Cyclist's Food Guide",
but still have a couple questions.

Is it important, particularly on a multi-day ride, to replace all the
calories that you burn? Or, what is an appropriate and sustainable
calorie deficit over a 3-4 day ride?

For larger riders, what foods have you found that provide sufficient
nutrition and energy for long (400K - 600K) single day rides while
still being palatable? Based on the charts I've found, this
represents a 25,000 - 30,000 calorie expenditure for a 200 pound
cyclist.

Well, at 6'4" and 210-215 lbs I suppose I qualify as a "larger"
cyclist. I have a couple of observations.

First, I think that experienced/fit/trained cyclists riding at a
moderate pace burn many calories per hour fewer than riders who are not
experienced, fit and/or trained. I think that we become more efficient
on the bike in terms of pedaling, for one thing, but also we learn how
to husband our energy, cope effectively with wind and how to take
advantage of the terrain, how to ride hills efficiently, etc. So I
doubt that I expend 30,000 kcal on a 600 km ride. But maybe I do,
because of course I haven't measured it. I am going by comparing what I
eat to whether I lose weight on the ride.

Second, 600 km rides take a lot of time. You'll eat a lot of meals on
the bike! There is no one food that will remain palatable for that time
frame. I've seen people try to do the liquid nutrition route, using
maltodextrin-soy protein mixes and such. Personally I couldn't take
that for 600 km! I want to enjoy my ride, not just get through it in a
mechanical and efficient manner.

On most 600 km rides (I am talking about RUSA brevets here, since that's
the only time I try to ride 600 km in a compact period of time), the
check points tend to be at convenience stores. There is NOTHING in a
convenience store that you can eat for 600 km. What they sell is [censored].
It's nutritionally awful. I can do a 200 or 300 km ride on that stuff,
but no longer than that. I find I have to eat real food. I stop at
restaurants, I stop at bakeries, I stop at grocery stores. I buy fruits
and vegetables, sandwiches, etc.

When I did PBP in 2003 (make that "when I attempted PBP" as iliotibial
band tendinitis put a stop to my ride), I just ate normal food. I ate
meats, fruits, vegetables, desserts, etc. Sandwiches were great to
stick in a pocket and munch on the bike. I stopped at patisseries and
boulangeries pretty frequently. I felt great in terms of nutrition-
never a sense of bonking, plenty of energy, no stomach discomfort, and I
was still enjoying eating and really enjoying the ride. On that ride I
probably ate every bit as many calories as I was expending,
deliberately, as I did not want to find myself 1100 km into it and run
into "the wall" from not having eaten enough and draining my reserves.
As it turned out I only got to Carhaix. But other than my knees I felt
great.

RonSonic said:

Suggestion: accept that you'll be running at a deficit for these events. You
simply cannot consume and properly absorb the amounts of water and energy you
expend during the ride.

Just how tall are you that you're concerned about maintaining a 200 pound
weight?

I'm 6'4"; I'm not terribly concerned about either weight loss or gain;
I'm mostly concerned about making sure that after one long day, I have
enough energy for 2-3 more similar days.

Thanks,
Sam

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm trying to increase my ride mileage this year which, among other
things, involves determining the best way to meet calorie requirements
for long rides. I've read "The Cyclist's Food Guide", but still have a
couple questions.

Is it important, particularly on a multi-day ride, to replace all the
calories that you burn? Or, what is an appropriate and sustainable
calorie deficit over a 3-4 day ride?

I would say that depends upon whether you want to lose weight, and what
your proposed exertion level will be. At lower levels of exertion, fat
from your body will be a large portion of you fuel. Higher exertion
levels will require additional carbohydrates, which should be replaced
if you intend to keep the same pace.

Quoted message said:

For larger riders, what foods have you found that provide sufficient
nutrition and energy for long (400K - 600K) single day rides while
still being palatable? Based on the charts I've found, this represents
a 25,000 - 30,000 calorie expenditure for a 200 pound cyclist.

I am 230lbs and on long group rides I always expend more calories than
my riding partners who are smaller. They sometimes suggest skipping
some meals, but being larger, the calories usage is so much more for
me, that is not a good idea. It may work for smaller folks, but larger
folks use way more gas. I usually pack honey sandwiches with the crusts
cut off. Those seem to go down pretty good on the roll and are somewhat
easy to handle. For more calories I'd add some peanut butter, but I
hate it. I also try to have at least one bottle filled with a
sports-drink, or fruit-juice to get some calories there. 2 would be
ideal, but squirting fruit-juice over ones head when hot isn't very
pleasant.

I have used these two sites to gather info I have used succesfully on
fast long rides:

http://www.ultracycling.com/nutrition/calories.html
http://www.nutritiondata.com/

Are you preparing for a specific event or your own tour?

Thanks for the pointers -- I guess I need to figure out approximately
what percentage of my energy is coming from carbohydrates, and make
sure I replenish that.

My immediate concern is a 4 day event coming up in about 10 days, but
it's only an immediate "concern" because I've noted on previous shorter
events that I usually end the ride completely wiped out.

Thanks,
Sam

D'ohBoy said:

Quoted message said:

I'm trying to increase my ride mileage this year which, among other
things, involves determining the best way to meet calorie requirements
for long rides. I've read "The Cyclist's Food Guide", but still have a
couple questions.

Is it important, particularly on a multi-day ride, to replace all the
calories that you burn? Or, what is an appropriate and sustainable
calorie deficit over a 3-4 day ride?

For larger riders, what foods have you found that provide sufficient
nutrition and energy for long (400K - 600K) single day rides while
still being palatable? Based on the charts I've found, this represents
a 25,000 - 30,000 calorie expenditure for a 200 pound cyclist.

Thanks -- I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Sam

No suggestions, just a nasty tale of *extremely* poor
hydration/nutrition management. Doing an unsupported century in the
first real heat of the summer in WI and started to feel a bit off. Not
eating nor drinking properly, although I did have cytomax in the
bottles with a little added salt. Did 42 miles of hills and then
stopped in a small town on the IronMan WI route.

Ate a banana, had some Gatorade as well. Rode with some friends back
toward Madison and started to feel really bad. Decided to turn back
home and turn the century into an 80 miler. Stopped along the way to
grab a coke for some energy and forgot to flatten it (shake out the
carbonation, something my ultramarathoner brothers suggest) and the
carbonation hit me like a fist to the gut. Now I'm really hurting.
Got back on the bike and headed home into a moderate headwind.
Discomfort is now such that I can only go about 12 on the flats.
Stomach very unsteady. Get into the small town about five miles north
of home and now I feel just awful. Stop in the town park and drink
some water. Does NOT help.

Get back on the bike for the final grind (which includes a 2.5 mile
climb to our house at the top of a ridge) and feel worse. I am about
half a mile out of town when I just start vomiting from the bike.
Manage to keep going and ride while I empty my stomach. Perhaps I
should have stopped?

I had a similar issue on a recent ride -- I was trying to catch up to
another rider (I never did catch him), and unwisely rode past a couple
gas stations where I should have refilled my water. Soon enough I was
30 miles from the next store, and I had no water or food. It was a hot
day with a stiff headwind.

When I finally did reach a little store, I loaded up on the things that
looked good to me -- chocolate milk, gatorade, and coke. That turned
out to be a potent cocktail. I didn't lose any of it, but I was in a
lot of discomfort for the last 60 miles of the ride.

Sam

Mark said:

Quoted message said:

You got to work up to the rides (200,300k brevets) to figure out what
works for you and your digestive system. Various mix-up drinks work
for some, some of the time. Spizz, Carboplex, etc. Eating early and
often before the inevitable digestive problems set in can work. Its
what I have to do. My stomach just stops processing fluids and food
and will not accept anymore a bit before the 300k mark if I am riding
at a solid pace.

It is of course hard to experiment when the situation only occurs
around the 300k mark, but I'd think there is something wrong if you hit
a wall like that. What is an example of what you have eaten, and at
what intervals etc when this happened?

Quoted message said:

My experience is similar, but a friend has been told that even when all
else starts to "taste bad," you can always get a York Peppermint Patty
down. Sounds interesting, but I haven't tried it.

Just reading that gave me indigestion!

Joseph

Tim McNamara said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

I'm trying to increase my ride mileage this year which, among other
things, involves determining the best way to meet calorie
requirements for long rides. I've read "The Cyclist's Food Guide",
but still have a couple questions.

Is it important, particularly on a multi-day ride, to replace all the
calories that you burn? Or, what is an appropriate and sustainable
calorie deficit over a 3-4 day ride?

For larger riders, what foods have you found that provide sufficient
nutrition and energy for long (400K - 600K) single day rides while
still being palatable? Based on the charts I've found, this
represents a 25,000 - 30,000 calorie expenditure for a 200 pound
cyclist.

Well, at 6'4" and 210-215 lbs I suppose I qualify as a "larger"
cyclist. I have a couple of observations.

First, I think that experienced/fit/trained cyclists riding at a
moderate pace burn many calories per hour fewer than riders who are not
experienced, fit and/or trained. I think that we become more efficient
on the bike in terms of pedaling, for one thing, but also we learn how
to husband our energy, cope effectively with wind and how to take
advantage of the terrain, how to ride hills efficiently, etc. So I
doubt that I expend 30,000 kcal on a 600 km ride. But maybe I do,
because of course I haven't measured it. I am going by comparing what I
eat to whether I lose weight on the ride.

It is certainly true that fitness and experience influence the amount
of calories burned, but size plays a bigger role, in my opinion. For
example last Saturday I did a 252km ride with 4 other riding buddies. I
am at least 20kg more than the next largest guy. This ride had loads of
hills (borderline mountains) and since we all finished together, it
goes without saying that I used a lot more energy than they did to do
it.

Quoted message said:

Second, 600 km rides take a lot of time. You'll eat a lot of meals on
the bike! There is no one food that will remain palatable for that time
frame. I've seen people try to do the liquid nutrition route, using
maltodextrin-soy protein mixes and such. Personally I couldn't take
that for 600 km! I want to enjoy my ride, not just get through it in a
mechanical and efficient manner.

On most 600 km rides (I am talking about RUSA brevets here, since that's
the only time I try to ride 600 km in a compact period of time), the
check points tend to be at convenience stores. There is NOTHING in a
convenience store that you can eat for 600 km. What they sell is [censored].
It's nutritionally awful. I can do a 200 or 300 km ride on that stuff,
but no longer than that. I find I have to eat real food. I stop at
restaurants, I stop at bakeries, I stop at grocery stores. I buy fruits
and vegetables, sandwiches, etc.

Around here (Norway) all the gas stations (no such thing as stand-alone
convenience store) have some snack yougurts that have some fruit yogurt
and fresh musli to mix in. That is my saving grace. At about 300
calories a pop, and cool and refreshing with some substance, as well as
a variety of flavors. As long as I can get my hands on one of those,
I'm fine, it doesn't matter how much other candy and [censored] they have in
the store. maybe you can find one product the stores carry that you
like?

Quoted message said:

When I did PBP in 2003 (make that "when I attempted PBP" as iliotibial
band tendinitis put a stop to my ride), I just ate normal food. I ate
meats, fruits, vegetables, desserts, etc. Sandwiches were great to
stick in a pocket and munch on the bike. I stopped at patisseries and
boulangeries pretty frequently. I felt great in terms of nutrition-
never a sense of bonking, plenty of energy, no stomach discomfort, and I
was still enjoying eating and really enjoying the ride. On that ride I
probably ate every bit as many calories as I was expending,
deliberately, as I did not want to find myself 1100 km into it and run
into "the wall" from not having eaten enough and draining my reserves.
As it turned out I only got to Carhaix. But other than my knees I felt
great.

Sounds like a good warm up for next time!

Joseph

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm trying to increase my ride mileage this year which, among other
things, involves determining the best way to meet calorie requirements
for long rides. I've read "The Cyclist's Food Guide", but still have a
couple questions.

Is it important, particularly on a multi-day ride, to replace all the
calories that you burn? Or, what is an appropriate and sustainable
calorie deficit over a 3-4 day ride?

I would say that depends upon whether you want to lose weight, and what
your proposed exertion level will be. At lower levels of exertion, fat
from your body will be a large portion of you fuel. Higher exertion
levels will require additional carbohydrates, which should be replaced
if you intend to keep the same pace.

Quoted message said:

For larger riders, what foods have you found that provide sufficient
nutrition and energy for long (400K - 600K) single day rides while
still being palatable? Based on the charts I've found, this represents
a 25,000 - 30,000 calorie expenditure for a 200 pound cyclist.

I am 230lbs and on long group rides I always expend more calories than
my riding partners who are smaller. They sometimes suggest skipping
some meals, but being larger, the calories usage is so much more for
me, that is not a good idea. It may work for smaller folks, but larger
folks use way more gas. I usually pack honey sandwiches with the crusts
cut off. Those seem to go down pretty good on the roll and are somewhat
easy to handle. For more calories I'd add some peanut butter, but I
hate it. I also try to have at least one bottle filled with a
sports-drink, or fruit-juice to get some calories there. 2 would be
ideal, but squirting fruit-juice over ones head when hot isn't very
pleasant.

I have used these two sites to gather info I have used succesfully on
fast long rides:

http://www.ultracycling.com/nutrition/calories.html
http://www.nutritiondata.com/

Are you preparing for a specific event or your own tour?

Thanks for the pointers -- I guess I need to figure out approximately
what percentage of my energy is coming from carbohydrates, and make
sure I replenish that.

when figuring you calories don't forget to include the calories
required to just run your body. Say 3,000 per day?

Quoted message said:

My immediate concern is a 4 day event coming up in about 10 days, but
it's only an immediate "concern" because I've noted on previous shorter
events that I usually end the ride completely wiped out.

If you are able to maintian your energy throught a long ride, ie you
don't bonk, I'd say the wiped out feeling is just a function of your
speed, fitness, and exertion level. If you run out of energy during the
ride, that's a different story.

Another key thing to consider is post-ride recovery. I'm a big fan of
relatively high protien diets, particulary for recovery. I find it
helps avoid soreness, etc. Cottage cheese and yogurt are my prime
sources. Last Saturday's 9 hour 252km hilly hot ride did not leave me
sore the next day (unlike my companions, who had to wait for me on the
ride...) much I believe due to my high protein recovery diet.

Joseph

Tim McNamara said:

On most 600 km rides (I am talking about RUSA brevets here, since that's
the only time I try to ride 600 km in a compact period of time), the
check points tend to be at convenience stores. There is NOTHING in a
convenience store that you can eat for 600 km. What they sell is [censored].
It's nutritionally awful. I can do a 200 or 300 km ride on that stuff,
but no longer than that. I find I have to eat real food. I stop at
restaurants, I stop at bakeries, I stop at grocery stores. I buy fruits
and vegetables, sandwiches, etc.

Good advice -- the control points are, as you've noticed, usually gas
stations and the like. I'm usually loathe to make another stop at a
more substantial store, but that's probably a hangup I should get over.

Since most of our rides in the NW aren't too hot, I started out the
season by buying a bulk of Snickers bars (these might melt in warmer
climates); I figured 1-2 per hour plus gatorade would be enough
calories and a good mix of nutrients, but I noticed that I always ended
up eating a few early in the rides, and none later. It just was not
enough variety.

Thanks,
Sam

Quoted message said:

Another key thing to consider is post-ride recovery. I'm a big fan of
relatively high protien diets, particulary for recovery. I find it
helps avoid soreness, etc. Cottage cheese and yogurt are my prime
sources. Last Saturday's 9 hour 252km hilly hot ride did not leave me
sore the next day (unlike my companions, who had to wait for me on the
ride...) much I believe due to my high protein recovery diet.

Oddly, I find that I'm almost never sore the next day. Two days after a
long ride is when I really feel it.

Sam

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Another key thing to consider is post-ride recovery. I'm a big fan of
relatively high protien diets, particulary for recovery. I find it
helps avoid soreness, etc. Cottage cheese and yogurt are my prime
sources. Last Saturday's 9 hour 252km hilly hot ride did not leave me
sore the next day (unlike my companions, who had to wait for me on the
ride...) much I believe due to my high protein recovery diet.

Oddly, I find that I'm almost never sore the next day. Two days after a
long ride is when I really feel it.

Give a higher protein recovery diet a try. I also make sure to eat
about 3-400 calories of protien before I go to sleep that night. (A big
cup of cottage cheese and some fruit).

It may also have to do with body type, cadence, training, and who knows
what else, but I've had good results with it.

Joseph