NSAID Research News

I heard a sports doc in the LA area say some time ago that
inflammation is the way we heal injuries. NSAIDs interfere
with this response.

Since then, I very rarely take an Advil, and my aches and
pains have diminished considerably.

I had an interesting experience in my last race: I turned my
ankle inward running on a rocky "V" trail. I could barely
shuffle through the pain.

Then I took a single advil, and I was able to run fast
again, and in fact blasted the last few miles, passing lots
of people.

Pretty cool, eh? But the next day I couldn't even walk, and
the injury is finally 98% healed 7 weeks later. I think that
without the pain-killing, inflamation busting advil I would
have a much faster recovery (and a slower time).

-- Dan

"Gleshna" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040627214100.03820.00000428@mb-
m19.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

nlm.nih.govfullstory 18Open ↗
578.html

Excerpts: Among the 120 rats treated with one of the
drugs, five tendons failed to

heal

Quoted message said:

at all. None of the tendons in rats that did not receive
the drugs failed

to

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heal.

Previous research has shown that NSAIDs have a negative
effect on bone formation,

This is the first study to suggest that anti-inflammatory
medications

impair

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healing after rotator cuff surgery,

Gleshna

Overheard at 2004 ESA Northeastern Regional Surf Contest:

"F%&*, I got beaten by a guy from the Great Lakes!"

[email hidden] (Gleshna) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Previous research has shown that NSAIDs have a negative
effect on bone formation,

The only anti-inflammatory I use is DMSO, rarely at that.
DMSO targets the area because you apply it topically.

Taking a pill just seems wrong; you are diffusing a
chemical through your entire body for the sake of one
specific tendon.

Dan Stumpus said:

I heard a sports doc in the LA area say some time ago that
inflammation is the way we heal injuries. NSAIDs interfere
with this response.

It's purely a matter of degrees. Some inflammation is
necessary for healing, too much is detrimental. Using an
NSAID in the immediate acute phase of an injury to shut down
inflammation may not be a bad idea. using them chronically
during recovery probably is.

Lyle

"Dan Stumpus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I had an interesting experience in my last race: I turned
my ankle

inward

Quoted message said:

running on a rocky "V" trail. I could barely shuffle
through the

pain.

Quoted message said:

Then I took a single advil, and I was able to run fast
again, and in

fact

Quoted message said:

blasted the last few miles, passing lots of people.

15 years of the long stuff and I've never an NSAID during a
race. I have many running friends that forsake their salt
for the anti inflammatory. I do take them after the race and
they do help. I also do not run a step for days after the
race so I don't do anymore damage.

I know too many runners that took them during their races
that paid dearly. The means nearly crushed the ends. I'll
take the discomfort an keep in contact with my body.

As for the study, well, rats. What no mice or gerbils
available? In the metaphorical sense I may fit the bill but
I havn't made the physical transformation yet.

-DougF

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

15 years of the long stuff and I've never an NSAID during
a race. I have many running friends that forsake their
salt for the anti inflammatory. I do take them after the
race and they do help. I also do not run a step for days
after the race so I don't do anymore damage.

I know too many runners that took them during their races
that paid dearly. The means nearly crushed the ends. I'll
take the discomfort an keep in contact with my body.

So Doug, is your objection to taking NSAIDs while running
that you want to feel anything that resembles pain, so that
you know when problems are developing? Because I have often
had that thought, but I also imagined that taking the drugs
was actually theraputic. I thought maybe that keeping the
inflamation down while running might irritate things less.
But if NSAIDs are hard on my tendons, then I am working
against myself because my main problem is a nasty left
Achilles' tendon.

Now I have something new to worry about.

Brian Jones

Brian Jones said:

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

15 years of the long stuff and I've never an NSAID during
a race. I have many running friends that forsake their
salt for the anti inflammatory. I do take them after the
race and they do help. I also do not run a step for days
after the race so I don't do anymore damage.

I know too many runners that took them during their races
that paid dearly. The means nearly crushed the ends. I'll
take the discomfort an keep in contact with my body.

So Doug, is your objection to taking NSAIDs while running
that you want to feel anything that resembles pain, so
that you know when problems are developing? Because I have
often had that thought, but I also imagined that taking
the drugs was actually theraputic. I thought maybe that
keeping the inflamation down while running might irritate
things less. But if NSAIDs are hard on my tendons, then I
am working against myself because my main problem is a
nasty left Achilles' tendon.

Ignoring the tendon issue (which I doubt an acute dose will
have): pain/inflammation is your body's way of telling you
that something is wrong. Now some pain (such as that from
lactic acid) just ahs to be ignoerd; the pain from joint
stress should not (unless you like being injured).

Using painkillers or NSAID's before a hard workout or race
eliminates those signals.

Lyle

"Brian Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So Doug, is your objection to taking NSAIDs while running
that you

want to feel anything that resembles pain, so that you
know when problems are developing?

Brian, No, I don't like them because they mask off the
probem(s) and you can do serious harm while running with
NSAIDs. I have no masochistic tendencies that I'm aware of.

-DougF

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I have no masochistic tendencies that I'm aware of.

Given the distances you run, I'm willing to bet that your
non-running friends and neighbors would dispute this. 😉

What I really am trying to fugure out is this: I understand
that masking pain is dangerous. But do you hesitate take
ibuprofen, say, after training? Because some have indicated
that NSAIDs are (or may be) implicated in compromising the
quality of tendons (maybe the way hydorcortisone is?).

Brian Jones

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I have no masochistic tendencies that I'm aware of.

Given the distances you run, I'm willing to bet that your
non-running friends and neighbors would dispute this. 😉

What I really am trying to fugure out is this: I understand
that masking pain is dangerous. But do you hesitate take
ibuprofen, say, after training? Because some have indicated
that NSAIDs are (or may be) implicated in compromising the
quality of tendons (maybe the way hydorcortisone is?).

Brian Jones

Brian Jones said:

Given the distances you run, I'm willing to bet that your
non-running friends and neighbors would dispute this. 😉

What I really am trying to fugure out is this: I
understand that masking pain is dangerous. But do you
hesitate take ibuprofen, say, after training?

I take it after races sometimes -- because I get terrible
headaches. Long races (half marathon and up) fall well
outside the bounds of what is normally done in training (5-6
miles at HM pace or faster is already a lot of volume for a
training session), so the stress on the body is substantial.

But on the topic of injuries --

The book "running injury free" (written by a podiatrist)
recommends taking these for some injuries, but only
after a run.

If connective tissue or joints hurt enough that you need
drugs to survive the run, you shouldn't be running.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi pegasus.rutgers.edu~elflordOpen ↗

[email hidden] (Brian Jones) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Given the distances you run, I'm willing to bet that your
non-running friends and neighbors would dispute this. 😉

Trust me on this, when Doug walks out of his house, in full
drag regalia, butt cheeks popping out of his leather pants,
and whips flailing, EVERYONE within eyesight becomes a
runner a real fast one...

Quoted message said:

What I really am trying to fugure out is this: I
understand that masking pain is dangerous. But do you
hesitate take ibuprofen, say, after training? Because some
have indicated that NSAIDs are (or may be) implicated in
compromising the quality of tendons (maybe the way
hydorcortisone is?).

Brian Jones

Yes, the more sane of us do hesitate. Running by nature will
cause you some "sensations" (I use that instead of pain,
because there's good pain and bad pain. Dougs pain is whip
related) and some call it pain, some discomfort, but using
any kind of pain meds on a regular basis will do you more
harm than good in the longrun.

"Brian Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I have no masochistic tendencies that I'm aware of.

Given the distances you run, I'm willing to bet that your
non-running friends and neighbors would dispute this. 😉

My non-running friends are bamboozled with a 10k. It's my
fellow running buds that think I'm a few crayons short.

Quoted message said:

What I really am trying to fugure out is this: I
understand that masking pain is dangerous. But do you
hesitate take ibuprofen, say, after training?

After is fine. In fact after a long run I tend to take a few
Aleve. The additional caveat is I usually take a day or so
off so I'm not masking anything. I may bike but stay flat
and spin easy.

Quoted message said:

Because some have indicated that NSAIDs are (or may be)
implicated in compromising the quality of tendons (maybe
the way hydorcortisone is?).

I have not read much about this. My drugs of choice are:
Aleve(post 5+ run), salt caps(during a long run) and
Beer(Heineken, if I have a choice but after a run). I'm
and old, old fashioned naturalist - no HRM, no GPS, no
Altimeter, no pedometer, no metronome, no 6 ounce
bike..... 🙂

Quoted message said:

Kaz Kylheku)

Quoted message said:

DMSO

What is this? Where do you get it?

Gleshna

Overheard at 2004 ESA Northeastern Regional Surf Contest:

"F%&*, I got beaten by a guy from the Great Lakes!"

Gleshna said:

Quoted message said:

"Doug Freese" [email hidden] I know too many runners
that took them during their races that paid dearly.

If this means ibuprofen, etc. that can result in surgery.

It can also result in kidney failure, although sometimes
there might be other contributory factors. I was just
reading the 1st-person story of a guy who won an ultra
(injured, and taking nsaids to get through) and had kidney
failure within a couple days.

I use ice or cold water for local swelling. I've
occasionally used a nsaid (aleve night before) to relieve
some lingering pain so I don't hobble at work or in field
and hence promote another injury. But that's rarely more
than a day or two - and never within a few hours of running.

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people" -Bernd
Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

DNE Pharmaceuticals has DMSO in a roll-on applicator. I get the 90%
because I don't want the aloe vera. Read up and make your own decision.
Here's a link:
thestimulantpeople.comB10089753.htmlOpen ↗

--
Daniel
[email hidden]

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Gleshna wrote in article
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Kaz Kylheku)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

DMSO

Dimethyl sulfoxide.

"DMSO (which stands for dimethyl sulfoxide) is a versatile
compound with many uses and a checkered past.

"It is both a prescription drug and an industrial solvent.
It’s formed as a byproduct of wood pulp processing; its
use is determined by the quality: You will find industrial-
grade DMSO in paint thinner and antifreeze, and medical-
grade DMSO in many medical laboratories. Its industrial
usefulness comes from its remarkable solvent qualities, and
much of its medical value from its ability to transport
other substances through cell membranes. It is also reported
to have anti-inflammatory and antioxidant properties.

"Medical-grade DMSO is safe, and is widely used in medical
processes. DMSO is the chemical used to protect human tissue
(such as bone marrow, stem cells and embryos) when frozen
for storage. It’s also an FDA-approved prescription drug
(called Rimso) given by catheter for interstitial cystitis,
a painful bladder condition."

arthritis.org1999 archOpen ↗
ives/1999_11_12explorations.asp for more information.

Because DMSO penetrates the skin it is both a blessing and a
danger. It can carry medications into the body, but it can
also carry toxic substances with equal ease.

Quoted message said:

What is this? Where do you get it?

I presume drugstores and, especially, the nutritional stores
carry it (I haven't checked).
--
Don [email hidden]

PS Lest you folks think I am pro-NSAID just because I
dismiss the rat research study, please rest assured. I
try to prescribe NSAID's cheaply, rarely, and briefly.
NSAIDs are one of those pills that are all too easy for
doctors to give needy patients, and I try to resist the
temptation, or at least negotiate with my patient use
which relieves pain but is short enough to avoid the
longerterm bad adverse effects of NSAIDs. -- Josh