Nothing Personal

Zebee Johnstone said:

I'm sure Scotty only rides a bicycle, and would never be one of those
evil drivers.

Of course it's perfectly possible to kill someone if you hit them with
a bicycle, so I'm sure he never does more than 10kmh on the bicycle
either.

Nice to know an upright citizen is so careful of the children.

Upright as in "not bent"? :-)

Theo

On 2007-06-26, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

scotty72 said:

I understand that in small rural schools and even local suburban
schools, the locals may know the school is deserted by a certain time.
However, if you allowed each school to have its own times, I can see a
new excuse industry being born - "How are drivers supposed to know all
the times." Even now, all schools operate the same zone hours and the
standard bleat from drivers is - "I didn't know it was that time"
(it's only been like that for 10-15 years...and only the most
expensive modern cars are fitted with those luxury chronometer device
gazmatrons, aren't they?)

Well, the only motorcycle I have ever owned that came standard with a
chronometer gazmatron, I bought six months ago. Looking at your watch on a
motorcycle doesn't work too well. I leave work when I'm done for the day, or
when I feel like leaving, rather than a standard time, so when I get to a
school zone I have to think "[censored], what time is it". As I have no school-age
children, I also have no idea of whether today is a school day or not. There
are about 70 days in the year that are work days but not school days. The
first I know that I guessed wrong is that some idiot is blasting his or her
horn at me

Meh. Let them stew. Hopefully they'll die earlier than the rest of
us, from heart attack.

Any doubt, stay below 40. Since the school zone should be in a 50
zone anyway, it's not like there's much difference.

--
TimC
The universe was strange after we had beauty and truth replaced

TimC said:

Theo Bekkers wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The first I
know that I guessed wrong is that some idiot is blasting his or her
horn at me

Meh. Let them stew. Hopefully they'll die earlier than the rest of
us, from heart attack.

Any doubt, stay below 40. Since the school zone should be in a 50
zone anyway, it's not like there's much difference.

That would be the case if schools were not built on major roads. I pass
three schools on my commute and never get near a 50 zone.

Theo

In aus.bicycle on Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:20:10 +0800

Theo Bekkers said:

Zebee Johnstone said:

Nice to know an upright citizen is so careful of the children.

Upright as in "not bent"? :-)

Of course. 'bent riders are sanctimonious in a completely different
way!

Zebee

Theo Bekkers said:

matagi said:

On the subject of school crossings .... I think a lot of the outrage
is down to the fact that the times are a joke. The majority of kids
are picked up by their parents and don't go anywhere near the
crossings and the few kids that actually do use the crossing have
usually well and truly left the area by 3:30pm at the latest.

In fact, at one of the local schools in our area (rural) the school is
deserted, the access gates are padlocked and the teacher gone by
3:00pm. You can imagine how people feel about having to crawl through
there at 40km/hr under those circumstances.

We have one not far from work where the time goes to 4pm but the crosswalk
attendants are gone by 3:45.

Quoted message said:

I think it would be better if we had a system that enabled each school
to control the speed zone times around their school. That way the
times would reflect reality - don't know how you would set it up,
though.

Manually. The school turns it on and a staff member stays at the school till
all the kids have gone, then turns it off and goes home. I'll lay odds the
zones will finish by 3:05 if school's out at 3.

Theo

troll

quote='Theo Bekkers'scotty72 said:

And how will a teacher know if all the kids have left?

My school has 1100+ kids.

Am I to be responsible for accounting for each of them.

Of course. That's your job, isn't it?
[/QUOTE]Right, you expect that every teacher should know the where abouts of each of 1000 students at all times of the day?

Says it all, doesn't it. We obviously understand and respect education and educators... can't imagine where some kids get the f*+k you attitude towards school...

Theo Bekkers said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like your 30secs is more important to you than kids lives. Says
a lot, doesn't it?

Well, I think my 30 seconds is more important than your 30 seconds. If those
kids are in your school, yes you are responsible for them.

How do I know that all the kids have left the school by 4 pm when the zone
ends? Should the zone be 24 hours? How do I know there aren't any kids
lurking on the kerb 100 metres outside the school zone? Should we extend the
school zone to 24 hours/all roads in the country? Will the kiddies then be
safe?

So you're a school-teacher? That explains a few things.... Hehe.

Theo

I tend to think that the zones should be 30km and speed bumps should be installed at all school gate crossings - particularly around primary schools.

The hours - well 24hrs would be acceptable - esp with the speed bumps.

However, failing that, the hour before and after if an expample of erring on the side of caution. Whilst their may be some kids around after 4, it is more than likely most have gone. So it becomes a balance.

Scotty

hoot hoot@here said:

troll-

So you seem.

Zebee Johnstone said:

Of course. 'bent riders are sanctimonious in a completely different
way!

You have never struck me as being very 'saintlike'.

Theo

hoot said:

Theo Bekkers said:

matagi wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I think it would be better if we had a system that enabled each
school to control the speed zone times around their school. That
way the times would reflect reality - don't know how you would set
it up, though.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Manually. The school turns it on and a staff member stays at the
school till all the kids have gone, then turns it off and goes home.
I'll lay odds the zones will finish by 3:05 if school's out at 3.

Quoted message said:

troll

Maybe. OTOH I've seen it work that way in Vic, south of Cranbourne. When
school goes in or out there is a round 40 flashing sign surrounded by
flashing red lights at school times. At other times the sign says 60.

An interesting concept in road signage are the reflective ones in saw
outside Denver in the USA in 1968 (so not exactly leading edge today). The
sign said 70 (mph) during the day, at night or during fog, when your
headlights were on , the sign said 60.

Theo

On 2007-06-26, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

An interesting concept in road signage are the reflective ones in saw
outside Denver in the USA in 1968 (so not exactly leading edge today). The
sign said 70 (mph) during the day, at night or during fog, when your
headlights were on , the sign said 60.

So people that were tardy in turning their lights on also get the
benefit of driving faster in the fog!111!elvenene!

No wait, that's completely normal behaviour.

--
TimC
Sorry if there are error (factual or otherwise) in transmission - I'm
sending this message by manually feeding signals down the gigabit
fiber link with a laser pointer. Latency and pointing errors.

scotty72 said:

Theo Bekkers said:

scotty72 wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

And how will a teacher know if all the kids have left?

My school has 1100+ kids.

Am I to be responsible for accounting for each of them.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course. That's your job, isn't it?

Quoted message said:

Right, you expect that every teacher should know the where abouts of
each of 1000 students at all times of the day?

I would expect that each teacher be responsible for the kids in their
classrooms. i.e. the teacher is last to leave the room and locks the door.
Some adult is surely responsible for ensuring the security of the entire
school premises. Or do you just walk out and leave the kids to lock up? When
I went to school we were _moved out of the grounds_ almost immediately by
the teachers, 800 high school kids gone in five minutes, not that we wanted
to stay any longer.

Quoted message said:

Says it all, doesn't it. We obviously understand and respect
education and educators... can't imagine where some kids get the f*+k
you attitude towards school...

I think you're getting carried away there Scotty. I certainly respected my
educators when I went to school. My daughter-in-law is a Uni lecturer. I
have had a lot of interaction with teachers and educators, some quite senior
in the Ed dept, in my position as secretary for ten years, and then honorary
life member, of WAALC (West Australian Adult Literacy Council). Most of them
were not like you. I have also taught some external TAFE courses, as well as
many company internal technical courses. I will admit to not teaching
children, apart from my own.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Sounds like your 30secs is more important to you than kids lives.
Says a lot, doesn't it?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well, I think my 30 seconds is more important than your 30 seconds.
If those
kids are in your school, yes you are responsible for them.

How do I know that all the kids have left the school by 4 pm when
the zone
ends? Should the zone be 24 hours? How do I know there aren't any
kids
lurking on the kerb 100 metres outside the school zone? Should we
extend the
school zone to 24 hours/all roads in the country? Will the kiddies
then be safe?

So you're a school-teacher? That explains a few things.... Hehe.

I don't know what you've done to the attributes here but never mind, I'll
fix them. You've put two posts together? Attributes 101 is in Room 5C by the
way.

Quoted message said:

I tend to think that the zones should be 30km and speed bumps
should be
installed at all school gate crossings - particularly around primary
schools.

I think that that is a bit over the top myself, especially on highways.
Maybe we should move all schools into dead end streets.

Quoted message said:

The hours - well 24hrs would be acceptable - esp with the speed
bumps.

Hehe.

Quoted message said:

However, failing that, the hour before and after if an expample of
erring on the side of caution. Whilst their may be some kids around
after 4, it is more than likely most have gone. So it becomes a
balance.

Or maybe we should restrict the times to when the kids are actually arriving
and leaving, and teach them something about road sense and personal
responsibility, particularly in high schools.

Most people learn from the people they associate with, and comply with the
morms of their group, this is called peer pressure learning. There is
another theory however that totally goes against this. Its concept is that
if you put one adult with 30 children for 10 or 12 years, peer pressure will
ensure that at the end of that time you will have 31 adults, not 31
children. :-)

Theo

scotty72 said:

Theo Bekkers said:

scotty72 said:

And how will a teacher know if all the kids have left?

My school has 1100+ kids.

Am I to be responsible for accounting for each of them.

Of course. That's your job, isn't it?
Right, you expect that every teacher should know the where abouts of

each of 1000 students at all times of the day?

Says it all, doesn't it. We obviously understand and respect
education and educators... can't imagine where some kids get the f*+k
you attitude towards school...

Recently sitting beside casualty bed waiting for swmbo to get noggin
scanned and 4yr old asthmatic attack in next bed is FSCK YOU, FSCK
YOU,..... to the nurses trying to help.

The Doctor soon put a stop to it. "We do not accept that". I have no
idea whether there was extra pressure applied when they took blood, but
the little [censored] soon stopped the FSCK YOU very fast.

Spot on about source, because mum was fsk this, fsck that about
everything as she spoke to the kid. Perhaps, since it was exceedingly
busy, she and her kid should have been chucked back out to the chairs as
obviously he had no trouble breathing.

Oh well, better things to do.
Beats to kill, maps to explore plunder to gain.
Hmm, something is lacking {:-).

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 27 Jun 2007 08:15:21 +0800

Theo Bekkers said:

Or maybe we should restrict the times to when the kids are actually arriving
and leaving, and teach them something about road sense and personal
responsibility, particularly in high schools.

I can't recall a crossing near my high school. IT wasn't on a main
road though. We crossed wherever we felt like it.

There wasn't one near my primary either. There *was* one on the
nearest main road, which was just a zebra crossing with no special
speed limit. There was a lollipop man (Mr Roberts) who did that
crossing for something like 15 years. But around the school no
crossing, no speed zones.

Neither school was on a highway, neither school had much local traffic
near it, and neither school had much in the way of parents dropping
off or picking up kids. Lotsa buses and bicycles though.

Zebee
- who had a 10 speed in highschool which was the subject of much
envy.

Zebee Johnstone said:

Neither school was on a highway, neither school had much local traffic
near it, and neither school had much in the way of parents dropping
off or picking up kids. Lotsa buses and bicycles though.

No kid at my high school would be seen dead being picked up by their
parents. How uncool is that! Besides, there were no parents who had more
than one car. A lot had no car.

Quoted message said:

- who had a 10 speed in highschool which was the subject of much
envy.

I had a single-speed but it was cooler to walk with your mates in senior
high.

Theo

On 2007-06-27, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

scotty72 said:

I tend to think that the zones should be 30km and speed bumps
should be
installed at all school gate crossings - particularly around primary
schools.

I think that that is a bit over the top myself, especially on highways.
Maybe we should move all schools into dead end streets.

That's what they're doing in this town. Having all the parents drop
off their preciouses at the front gate is causing traffic congestion.
So the council have asked the school to carry out a feasability study
to see if they can put a carpark and bus turnaround area at the end of
a dead end street, removing most of the land that was granted to the
school as ... wait for it ... a conservation reserve for the kids to
study the environment. I can see it now:

<whisper type="David Attenborough">

Oh, look at this beautiful example of hotmix!

And this rare species is known as a "[censored]" in Spanish. Be very
careful around them, they jump on you from behind even if not
provoked.

These creatures are very well adapted to their environment. They have
formed a symbiosis with council workers. As they grow and multiply,
council workers eat tar and gravel, and regurgitate hotmix. The
hotmix allows these beasts to thrive, and with the occasional feast
upon a small child, can carry council workers to new lands to adapt
those habitats to the needs of the beast as well.

</whisper>

--
TimC
Seen in a sendmail HELO greeting (Leon Brooks):
Commodore 64 (anti-spam cartridge loaded)

Theo Bekkers said:

I would expect that each teacher be responsible for the kids in their
classrooms. i.e. the teacher is last to leave the room and locks the door.

Actually, it is usually the school cleaners that are responsible. Just
the way it works.

Quoted message said:

Some adult is surely responsible for ensuring the security of the entire
school premises.

Buildings yes.
Grounds maybe.

In NSW, schools are starting to resemble concentration camps. Gates open
to allow children to enter and are closed and locked when classes
commence, They do not open again until it is time for children to leave,
then they are closed and locked again after the rush.

This wasn't as a result of "fear of strangers", but a need to
demonstrate to courts that when a child enters a school grounds, they do
so deliberately. Again, specific case where a child entered school
grounds after everyone had left and fell off the building roof.
Unfortunately, the idiot brood mare and semen donor won when they sued
the DofE.

Or do you just walk out and leave the kids to lock up? When

Quoted message said:

I went to school we were _moved out of the grounds_ almost immediately by
the teachers, 800 high school kids gone in five minutes, not that we wanted
to stay any longer.

High school is different, unless you have sexually repressed parents who
worry about "your safety".

In primary school, they can not be just turfed out the gate.

Quoted message said:

TimC said:

The problem is the world has turned chronically paranoid and stupid in
that intervening 19 years. Crime hasn't gone up in that time, just
reportings. The world is no less safe and soft and cuddly as it was
then. Just people have become more Me Me Me Me Won't Anyone Think of
the Children? My Children? Because I'm too Busy Thinking About Me.

Tim, you should read the book I'm currently reading. "Triumph of the
Airheads" by Shelley Gare. It will confirm your worst fears.

Theo

Plodder said:

I can't get my head around the 'merits' of suspension. Kid (who doesn't
want to be at school, doesn't want to comply, etc) acts up and is
'punished' by not having to go to school for a time. How does that work?

It does depend on the kid and the parents, and there are some for whom it
doesn't work. But in general it's a wake up call to the kid that they've
really gone too far, and the parents have to arrange alternative care
which means they get stroppy as well. For the majority of students I'd say
suspension is a pretty big deal, and it will act as a deterrent.

There are always exceptions: people still kill, steal, etc. even though
they're likely to go to prison, simply because they don't think it's that
big a deal.

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
.... it is important to realize that any lock can be picked with a big
enough hammer." -- Sun System & Network Admin manual

Dave said:

There are always exceptions: people still kill, steal, etc. even though
they're likely to go to prison, simply because they don't think it's that
big a deal.

Or because they don't think through to the consequences.

--
My Usenet From: address now expires after two weeks. If you email me, and
the mail bounces, try changing the bit before the "@ to usenet".

TimC said:

So they'll come and collect in their 4WDs, right?

Yep, they do, unfortunately.

The chuckle here is that everytme some "parent" waffles on to the local
newspapers about dangers to school children from speeding motorists, the
standard police comment is "that parents need to take extra care when
delivering and picking up their children from school". Too many
complaints and the revenue raisers are suddenly very visible outside
schools and theystrickly enforce the roads rules. I just love it.

Quoted message said:

Back in my day, times were more sensible. At elast in my family, and
apparently in most others, kids developed common sense by the age of 6
or so.

Yes, well, that is eminently sensible to me and back in my time.....

Quoted message said:

I walked home. By myself. Until I was old enough to be trusted on
the road with my bike, whereupon I rode home. No supervision, no
teacher paternalisation. Never had any trouble.

Yep, exactly, Although for later high school I decide it was far more
interesting to take the direct route and walking over the intervening
ridges. There wasn't uch point in dragging the bicycle up and over for
the short downhill run home.

Quoted message said:

The problem is the world has turned chronically paranoid and stupid in
that intervening 19 years. Crime hasn't gone up in that time, just
reportings. The world is no less safe and soft and cuddly as it was
then. Just people have become more Me Me Me Me Won't Anyone Think of
the Children? My Children? Because I'm too Busy Thinking About Me.

Exactly.

Quoted message said:

Your bloody spawn is not going to be blown up by a terrorist.

Absolutely.

The point Iwas making is the above parent attitude is why Dept of School
Education[1] have such rules; to make it clear to parents that they are
responsible.

I always love asking "what makes you think the state is going to select
you pair as sperm and egg donors if you keep giving up all your parental
responsibilities" Hey, it stops them wanting to borrow my tools and
stuff {:-).

Hmm, more monsters to kill time. Life is grand when you are retired, its
a rainy, cold day.