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not tactics just lazy

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Published
20 July 2006
Last activity
22 July 2006
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Bounty Bob
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  1. Sheesh letting Landis get all that time back and neither
    CSC or T-Mobile (who seem to have the rest of their team
    in the peleton at this time with only Sinkewitz right
    behind Landis). I think the only excuse can be cyclists
    are just utterly lazy. No yellow, why should we work?
    Lose the race well its not our fault...

  2. "Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Sheesh letting Landis get all that time back and neither
    CSC or T-Mobile (who seem to have the rest of their team
    in the peleton at this time with only Sinkewitz right
    behind Landis). I think the only excuse can be cyclists
    are just utterly lazy. No yellow, why should we work?
    Lose the race well its not our fault...

    Why should CSC and T-Mobile make an effort? Pereiro and his team are doing
    all the work and the others are waiting until they have tired themselves.
    Basic rule of bicyle racing: lick the plate of your neighbour clean before
    starting on your own.

    Benjo

  3. benjo maso said:

    "Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Sheesh letting Landis get all that time back and neither
    CSC or T-Mobile (who seem to have the rest of their team
    in the peleton at this time with only Sinkewitz right
    behind Landis). I think the only excuse can be cyclists
    are just utterly lazy. No yellow, why should we work?
    Lose the race well its not our fault...

    Quoted message said:

    Why should CSC and T-Mobile make an effort? Pereiro and his team are doing
    all the work and the others are waiting until they have tired themselves.
    Basic rule of bicyle racing: lick the plate of your neighbour clean before
    starting on your own.

    So you let Landis get 10 minutes to ensure you don't do any work?
    Well thats just moronic.

  4. "Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    benjo maso said:

    "Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Sheesh letting Landis get all that time back and neither
    CSC or T-Mobile (who seem to have the rest of their team
    in the peleton at this time with only Sinkewitz right
    behind Landis). I think the only excuse can be cyclists
    are just utterly lazy. No yellow, why should we work?
    Lose the race well its not our fault...

    Quoted message said:

    Why should CSC and T-Mobile make an effort? Pereiro and his team are
    doing all the work and the others are waiting until they have tired
    themselves. Basic rule of bicyle racing: lick the plate of your neighbour
    clean before starting on your own.

    So you let Landis get 10 minutes to ensure you don't do any work?
    Well thats just moronic.

    If Klöden or Sastre want to win the Tour they have to beat Pereiro. So I
    think they are very happy with Landis' attack. Landis is forcing Pereiro and
    his team to tire themselves, and Landis wont get 10 minutes. He is no
    superman.

    Benjo

  5. Bounty Bob said:
    benjo maso said:

    "Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Sheesh letting Landis get all that time back and neither
    CSC or T-Mobile (who seem to have the rest of their team
    in the peleton at this time with only Sinkewitz right
    behind Landis). I think the only excuse can be cyclists
    are just utterly lazy. No yellow, why should we work?
    Lose the race well its not our fault...

    Quoted message said:

    Why should CSC and T-Mobile make an effort? Pereiro and his team are
    doing all the work and the others are waiting until they have tired
    themselves. Basic rule of bicyle racing: lick the plate of your
    neighbour clean before starting on your own.

    So you let Landis get 10 minutes to ensure you don't do any work?
    Well thats just moronic.

    They don't care how much time Landis gets. They care for being

    a) in front of Landis
    and additionally
    b) in front of Sastre (for TMO) or in front of Klöden (for CSC)
    c) in front of Pereiro

    They'll try to reduce the gap in the flat as much as possible while
    spending only the energy they have to, because they'll need it for their
    goals b) and c).

    I'd say it's running quite well for CSC and TMO at the moment.

  6. benjo maso said:

    "Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    benjo maso said:

    "Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > Sheesh letting Landis get all that time back and neither
    > CSC or T-Mobile (who seem to have the rest of their team
    > in the peleton at this time with only Sinkewitz right
    > behind Landis). I think the only excuse can be cyclists
    > are just utterly lazy. No yellow, why should we work?
    > Lose the race well its not our fault...

    Quoted message said:

    Why should CSC and T-Mobile make an effort? Pereiro and his team are
    doing all the work and the others are waiting until they have tired
    themselves. Basic rule of bicyle racing: lick the plate of your neighbour
    clean before starting on your own.

    So you let Landis get 10 minutes to ensure you don't do any work?
    Well thats just moronic.

    If Klöden or Sastre want to win the Tour they have to beat Pereiro. So I
    think they are very happy with Landis' attack. Landis is forcing Pereiro and
    his team to tire themselves, and Landis wont get 10 minutes. He is no
    superman.

    Benjo

    Pereiro and crew didn't need to worry about Landis until he got about 6
    minutes or so. Up until that time Leipheimer, Zubeldia, Moreau, etc...
    should've had their teams riding to protect their positions. It's too
    late for that now, tho. Pereiro, Sastre, and Menchov should've been
    resting, but Pereiro burned his boys out when AG2R, Eusketal, and
    Gerolsteiner should've been doing the work.

  7. "Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    benjo maso said:

    "Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    benjo maso said:

    "Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > Sheesh letting Landis get all that time back and neither
    > CSC or T-Mobile (who seem to have the rest of their team
    > in the peleton at this time with only Sinkewitz right
    > behind Landis). I think the only excuse can be cyclists
    > are just utterly lazy. No yellow, why should we work?
    > Lose the race well its not our fault...

    Quoted message said:

    Why should CSC and T-Mobile make an effort? Pereiro and his team are
    doing all the work and the others are waiting until they have tired
    themselves. Basic rule of bicyle racing: lick the plate of your
    neighbour
    clean before starting on your own.

    So you let Landis get 10 minutes to ensure you don't do any work?
    Well thats just moronic.

    If Klöden or Sastre want to win the Tour they have to beat Pereiro. So I
    think they are very happy with Landis' attack. Landis is forcing Pereiro
    and
    his team to tire themselves, and Landis wont get 10 minutes. He is no
    superman.

    Benjo

    Pereiro and crew didn't need to worry about Landis until he got about 6
    minutes or so. Up until that time Leipheimer, Zubeldia, Moreau, etc...
    should've had their teams riding to protect their positions. It's too
    late for that now, tho. Pereiro, Sastre, and Menchov should've been
    resting, but Pereiro burned his boys out when AG2R, Eusketal, and
    Gerolsteiner should've been doing the work.

    Why? They should work like slaves to reduce the possibility that their
    leader will finish 9th in stead of 8th?

    Benjo

  8. benjo maso said:

    "Scott" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    benjo maso said:

    "Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    benjo maso wrote:
    > "Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    > news:[email hidden]...
    >> Sheesh letting Landis get all that time back and neither
    >> CSC or T-Mobile (who seem to have the rest of their team
    >> in the peleton at this time with only Sinkewitz right
    >> behind Landis). I think the only excuse can be cyclists
    >> are just utterly lazy. No yellow, why should we work?
    >> Lose the race well its not our fault...

    > Why should CSC and T-Mobile make an effort? Pereiro and his team are
    > doing all the work and the others are waiting until they have tired
    > themselves. Basic rule of bicyle racing: lick the plate of your
    > neighbour
    > clean before starting on your own.

    So you let Landis get 10 minutes to ensure you don't do any work?
    Well thats just moronic.

    If Klöden or Sastre want to win the Tour they have to beat Pereiro. So I
    think they are very happy with Landis' attack. Landis is forcing Pereiro
    and
    his team to tire themselves, and Landis wont get 10 minutes. He is no
    superman.

    Benjo

    Pereiro and crew didn't need to worry about Landis until he got about 6
    minutes or so. Up until that time Leipheimer, Zubeldia, Moreau, etc...
    should've had their teams riding to protect their positions. It's too
    late for that now, tho. Pereiro, Sastre, and Menchov should've been
    resting, but Pereiro burned his boys out when AG2R, Eusketal, and
    Gerolsteiner should've been doing the work.

    Why? They should work like slaves to reduce the possibility that their
    leader will finish 9th in stead of 8th?

    Benjo

    Yes. It happens all the time, and Landis was counting on it. He even
    commented on it earlier in the Tour, when he took the lead back after
    Alpe d'Huez, when he said that now that other riders who felt they
    couldn't win would have other things to worry about, then other teams
    would have to ride.

    Lot's of times riders ride not to lose, rather than to win. Riding to
    not lose 7th or 8th is just as bad as riding not to lose 1st.

  9. I think not.

    Ernst Noch said:
    Bounty Bob said:
    benjo maso said:

    "Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > Sheesh letting Landis get all that time back and neither
    > CSC or T-Mobile (who seem to have the rest of their team
    > in the peleton at this time with only Sinkewitz right
    > behind Landis). I think the only excuse can be cyclists
    > are just utterly lazy. No yellow, why should we work?
    > Lose the race well its not our fault...

    Quoted message said:

    Why should CSC and T-Mobile make an effort? Pereiro and his team are
    doing all the work and the others are waiting until they have tired
    themselves. Basic rule of bicyle racing: lick the plate of your
    neighbour clean before starting on your own.

    So you let Landis get 10 minutes to ensure you don't do any work?
    Well thats just moronic.

    They don't care how much time Landis gets. They care for being

    a) in front of Landis
    and additionally
    b) in front of Sastre (for TMO) or in front of Klöden (for CSC)
    c) in front of Pereiro

    They'll try to reduce the gap in the flat as much as possible while
    spending only the energy they have to, because they'll need it for their
    goals b) and c).

    I'd say it's running quite well for CSC and TMO at the moment.

  10. TennLawyer said:

    I think not.

    Well, ex post you are right, but nobody could have assumed such a
    monstrous ride by Landis. He spent considerably more energy before and
    still didn't lose much time in the last mountain.

  11. benjo maso said:


    "Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Sheesh letting Landis get all that time back and neither
    CSC or T-Mobile (who seem to have the rest of their team
    in the peleton at this time with only Sinkewitz right
    behind Landis). I think the only excuse can be cyclists
    are just utterly lazy. No yellow, why should we work?
    Lose the race well its not our fault...

    Why should CSC and T-Mobile make an effort? Pereiro and his team are doing
    all the work and the others are waiting until they have tired themselves.
    Basic rule of bicyle racing: lick the plate of your neighbour clean before
    starting on your own.

    My team through away 2nd on GC in the biggest masters stage race in
    the northeast US (I realize "biggest masters" is either a pun or an
    oxymoron) a few years ago by riding the way those teams did. I regret
    it.

    JT

    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  12. Rules are not there to be followed blindly.

    I can understand T-Mobile tactics ( in restrospect, anyways, because after
    all we could see that Kloden was not feeling that strong (he has to hold
    Rogers sevral times) and Rogers blew up himself). But even then there was a
    moment when Kloden had lsot his podium position and they still did not move
    a finger (and Kloden was at taht time still a potential threat to Sastre in
    the last TT).

    But CSC and more specifically Rjiis made a huge mistake. He had half his
    team there being wasted in an stupid wait. Anybody watching the race could
    see that Pereiro was not having the best of days and Isles Balears made
    clear at a given point they were not chasing anymore (that was more than
    80Km before the finish). Sastre was the REAL favourite as he was most
    likely the one that would take a few seconds in the climb (as it happended)
    and Kloden was not going to put 2 mins on him in the TT.

    They just needed to convey the message to Landis that no matter what he
    tried he was not going to get more than 5 mins (or wahtever would be the
    time to get back into the podium) . He would have given up. Maybe he had
    still won the stage (a la Rasmussen )...

    Rijs has screwed up his chances saving the energy of his team 3 days before
    the end of the TdF. What a genious. He may be lucky and Sastre can have the
    TT of his life, otherwise he should resign.

    ----

    Other unexplainable things are what is Booger doing? Maybe some dutch can
    explain because the external observable behaviour is that he is a [censored]
    (or should I say a camera-loving [censored]). In the end everything he does
    ends up in [censored] for his own team and for himself.

    "benjo maso" <[email hidden]> escribió en el mensaje
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Sheesh letting Landis get all that time back and neither
    CSC or T-Mobile (who seem to have the rest of their team
    in the peleton at this time with only Sinkewitz right
    behind Landis). I think the only excuse can be cyclists
    are just utterly lazy. No yellow, why should we work?
    Lose the race well its not our fault...

    Why should CSC and T-Mobile make an effort? Pereiro and his team are doing
    all the work and the others are waiting until they have tired themselves.
    Basic rule of bicyle racing: lick the plate of your neighbour clean before
    starting on your own.

    Benjo

  13. "Alex" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Other unexplainable things are what is Booger doing? Maybe some dutch can
    explain because the external observable behaviour is that he is a [censored]
    (or should I say a camera-loving [censored]). In the end everything he does
    ends up in [censored] for his own team and for himself.

    I'm not quite sure what you mean, but today Boogerd offerend Menchov to lead
    him during the climb to the Joux-Plane. However, Menchov refused and said he
    preferred riding his own pace. And of course, Boogerd would be very pleased
    to finish in the top ten.

    Benjo

  14. Scott said:
    benjo maso said:

    "Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    benjo maso wrote:

    >"Bounty Bob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    >news:[email hidden]...
    >
    >> Sheesh letting Landis get all that time back and neither
    >>CSC or T-Mobile (who seem to have the rest of their team
    >>in the peleton at this time with only Sinkewitz right
    >>behind Landis). I think the only excuse can be cyclists
    >>are just utterly lazy. No yellow, why should we work?
    >>Lose the race well its not our fault...

    >Why should CSC and T-Mobile make an effort? Pereiro and his team are
    >doing all the work and the others are waiting until they have tired
    >themselves. Basic rule of bicyle racing: lick the plate of your neighbour
    >clean before starting on your own.

    So you let Landis get 10 minutes to ensure you don't do any work?
    Well thats just moronic.

    If Klöden or Sastre want to win the Tour they have to beat Pereiro. So I
    think they are very happy with Landis' attack. Landis is forcing Pereiro and
    his team to tire themselves, and Landis wont get 10 minutes. He is no
    superman.

    Benjo

    Pereiro and crew didn't need to worry about Landis until he got about 6
    minutes or so. Up until that time Leipheimer, Zubeldia, Moreau, etc...
    should've had their teams riding to protect their positions. It's too
    late for that now, tho. Pereiro, Sastre, and Menchov should've been
    resting, but Pereiro burned his boys out when AG2R, Eusketal, and
    Gerolsteiner should've been doing the work.

    Euskaltel work?

  15. John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    My team through away 2nd on GC in the biggest masters stage race in
    the northeast US (I realize "biggest masters" is either a pun or an
    oxymoron) a few years ago by riding the way those teams did. I regret
    it.

    Was that Killington 1996 with Chad?

  16. Mark Fennell said:
    John Forrest Tomlinson said:

    My team through away 2nd on GC in the biggest masters stage race in
    the northeast US (I realize "biggest masters" is either a pun or an
    oxymoron) a few years ago by riding the way those teams did. I regret
    it.

    Was that Killington 1996 with Chad?

    No, he threw away first on GC that year by attacking too much when in
    the leaders jersey.

    We threw away 3rd (or maybe 2nd -- I can't remember) on GC with
    another guy in 1998 by not helping the race leader chase a break.

    JT

    ****************************
    Remove "remove" to reply
    Visit http://www.jt10000.com
    ****************************

  17. Scott said:
    Quoted message said:


    Why? They should work like slaves to reduce the possibility that their
    leader will finish 9th in stead of 8th?

    Benjo

    Yes. It happens all the time, and Landis was counting on it. He even
    commented on it earlier in the Tour, when he took the lead back after
    Alpe d'Huez, when he said that now that other riders who felt they
    couldn't win would have other things to worry about, then other teams
    would have to ride.

    Lot's of times riders ride not to lose, rather than to win. Riding to
    not lose 7th or 8th is just as bad as riding not to lose 1st.

    Dumbass -

    You've got your head up your ass.

    They ride to protect podium places. That's what Floyd was referring to.

    No one remembers if someone finished 8th instead of 7th.

    thanks,

    K. Gringioni.

  18. Kurgan Gringioni said:
    Scott said:
    Quoted message said:


    Why? They should work like slaves to reduce the possibility that their
    leader will finish 9th in stead of 8th?

    Benjo

    Yes. It happens all the time, and Landis was counting on it. He even
    commented on it earlier in the Tour, when he took the lead back after
    Alpe d'Huez, when he said that now that other riders who felt they
    couldn't win would have other things to worry about, then other teams
    would have to ride.

    Lot's of times riders ride not to lose, rather than to win. Riding to
    not lose 7th or 8th is just as bad as riding not to lose 1st.

    Dumbass -

    You've got your head up your ass.

    They ride to protect podium places. That's what Floyd was referring to.

    No one remembers if someone finished 8th instead of 7th.

    thanks,

    K. Gringioni.

    Dung muncher,

    Nope, the top riders also ride to protect places. While they aren't
    going to podium, the top 10 or 15 ride to protect places. Perhaps no
    one remembers 7th or 8th, it is important in contract negotiations AND
    in prize money. Otherwise, by about half way in the Tour they'd all
    just ride along to watch the top 3 race each other.

    Fred

  19. in message <[email hidden]>, Alex

    (') said:

    But  CSC and more specifically Rjiis made a huge mistake. He had half
    his team there being wasted in an stupid wait. Anybody watching the
    race could see that Pereiro was not having the best of days and Isles
    Balears made clear at a given point they were not chasing anymore (that
    was more than 80Km before the finish).  Sastre was the REAL favourite
    as he was most likely the one that would take a few seconds in the
    climb (as it happended) and Kloden was not going to put 2 mins on him
    in the TT.

    I'm afraid I have to agree with that. I've been really rooting for CSC
    and Sastre all tour, and that was where they had a chance to win it. If
    Sastre had even attacked earlier on the last climb it would have made a
    difference - he was gaining on Landis all the way up. But he didn't, and
    the rest is history.

    Unless, of course, someone pulls off a similarly outrageous stunt
    tomorrow...

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; If you're doing this for fun, do what seems fun. If you're
    ;; doing it for money, stop now.
    ;; Rainer Deyke

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