not a cyclist

In article <[email hidden]>,

loki said:

Comments?

How intertwined is your lifestyle with cycling? The routes & destinations you choose, your
hairstyle, your clothing & accoutrements, etc?

Anyhow, "rider" fills the bill as good as "cyclist". Maybe "[bi]cycler" would do the trick, too.

Words and labels are just food for thought. And as Walt Kelly's Pogo once said: "food for thought is
no substitute for the real thing."

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

Hi Loki

Your co-worker seems to have a very narrow-minded view of what a cyclist is. The fact that you ride
solo and not competitively or in a peloton doesn't make you any less of a cyclist than those who do.

Competition doesn't make a cyclist; cycling makes a cyclist... And from your description, you seem
to have already achieved many of the milestones that dedicated cyclists strive for: a metric century
(100 km), an imperial century (100 miles or 161 km), and a double-metric (200 km).

If your co-worker laughs at you when you call youself a cyclist, tell him to put his golf clubs down
and get him on a bike. You can ask him to comment again after you smoke him on the first uphill you
encounter.

Just because you're not a competitive cyclist doesn't make you any less of a cyclist. In fact, you
seem to be more of a cyclist than many posers with $5,000 bikes and all the lyrca you can shake a
stick at who simply keep their bikes at home like a museum piece.

Forget the labels, just ride.

Yeti

"loki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Whilst discussing life, politics and the meaning of existence a co-worker
who knows me well enough described me as an anarchist [I'm not - it was
merely a bit of good humoured banter and devil's advocacy] because, as is

my

Quoted message said:

habit of perusing widely differing types of currents affairs mags from radical left to radical
right to the mushy middle, I was reading an anarchist magazine. My reply was that I didn't
consider myself anything

that

Quoted message said:

ended in -ist with the possible exception of cyclist.

He laughed at the idea that I would consider myself a cyclist. You see I
don't compete. I don't 'race' either off-road or on. I don't participate

in

Quoted message said:

organized events. I commute year-round and get about town by bike. In

season

Quoted message said:

I go on 20 km, 50 km, even 70 km rides regularly and have clocked a couple in the 100-200 km
range. But according to him I am not a 'cyclist' because

I

Quoted message said:

do this alone, untimed, and not in organized events.

By his definition; using a bike for basic transportation and for

recreation

Quoted message said:

doesn't make one a cyclist. He is pretty much a jock type: recreational hockey, golf, softball,
and football & rugby in his younger days. [He _might_ get on a bike twice in a summer and would
not even consider using

a

Quoted message said:

bike for a 7 km commute to work and instead drives an SUV.] In his mind a _real_ cyclist is pretty
much in the Lance Armstrong mould I guess. Or it should at least be as part of an organized event
like his 'sports'.

Dunno why I'm relating this episode. It just struck be as a curious way

to

Quoted message said:

look at cycling.and those who shall or shall not be deemed 'cyclists'.

Comments?

--
'Just because you're wearing a tie Doesn't mean you're bloody important'

- chumbawumba

Your friend is wrong...you are a cyclist. Per dictionary.com
(dictionary.reference.comsearchOpen ↗), "One who rides or races a bicycle,
motorcycle, or similar vehicle.".

--
~_-* ...G/ \G cyclistats.comcyclistats.comOpen ↗ CycliStats - Software for Cyclists

Loki said:

Whilst discussing life, politics and the meaning of existence a co-worker who knows me well enough
described me as an anarchist [I'm not - it was merely a bit of good humoured banter and devil's
advocacy] because, as is my habit of perusing widely differing types of currents affairs mags from
radical left to radical right to the mushy middle, I was reading an anarchist magazine. My reply
was that I didn't consider myself anything that ended in -ist with the possible exception of
cyclist.

He laughed at the idea that I would consider myself a cyclist. You see I don't compete. I don't
'race' either off-road or on. I don't participate in organized events. I commute year-round and
get about town by bike. In season I go on 20 km, 50 km, even 70 km rides regularly and have
clocked a couple in the 100-200 km range. But according to him I am not a 'cyclist' because I do
this alone, untimed, and not in organized events.

By his definition; using a bike for basic transportation and for recreation doesn't make one a
cyclist. He is pretty much a jock type: recreational hockey, golf, softball, and football & rugby
in his younger days. [He _might_ get on a bike twice in a summer and would not even consider using
a bike for a 7 km commute to work and instead drives an SUV.] In his mind a _real_ cyclist is
pretty much in the Lance Armstrong mould I guess. Or it should at least be as part of an organized
event like his 'sports'.

Dunno why I'm relating this episode. It just struck be as a curious way to look at cycling.and
those who shall or shall not be deemed 'cyclists'.

Comments?

1. He's full of [censored].

2. If he can self-define who is and isn't an athlete, so can you.

3. By his definition, when he gets into that SUV for a short (or even long) haul, he's not really a
"driver" because he's not in a timed race over a closed course or track.

4. Ignore him.

5. Find new friends with less-closed minds.

Bill, riding bent in Florida (hence the screen name) To e-mail, remove undies

Quoted message said:

By his definition; using a bike for basic transportation and for recreation doesn't make one a
cyclist. He is pretty much a jock type: recreational hockey, golf, softball, and football

Quoted message said:

& rugby in his younger days.

Well, this seems to be a definition thing. Who knows exactly what he is thinking of?

He could have a certain bit a justified thinking in trying to limit the term "cyclist" to people who
are more than "casual". From your account he seems to think that taking part in organized events is
a sort of affirmation.

He probably does not realize that cycling ranges from very structured events like races to less
structured events like sanctioned centuries to completely independent activities like self
contained touring.

Personally, I am more impressed by the lady who hops on her touring bike loaded with 50 lbs of gear
and proceeds to ride across the North American Continent all alone on her bike and with no support
than the hot shot who does a sub 5 hour century in a pace line. Then there are the commuters who
ride through rain and fog and snow and gloom of night all on roads thronged with crazed drivers and
they do this unscathed.

I think the variety of impressive things that cyclists do makes cyclists a bit more flexible about
whom they accord the honorific "cyclist" to than in some other sports.

"loki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dunno why I'm relating this episode. It just struck be as a curious way

to

Quoted message said:

look at cycling.and those who shall or shall not be deemed 'cyclists'.

Comments?

So, does this guy drive to work? Does he not consider himself to be a "driver"?

RichC

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "loki"

Quoted message said:

Comments?

How intertwined is your lifestyle with cycling?

It is my basic form of transportation in that I don't even own an auto. I've bicycle-commuted to
work every day that I work for over a year [Since 11 Nov 2002 to be precise] And this includes
through the snow and ice of Canadian winter.

Quoted message said:

The routes & destinations you choose,

For fun in season: Up north to the lake; East along the river trails; The
southern loop. I'd say that in season it is my primary form of recreation.

Quoted message said:

your hairstyle, your clothing & accoutrements, etc?

Not at all.

--
'Just because you're wearing a tie Doesn't mean you're bloody important'

- chumbawumba

"Cwazee Yeti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi Loki

Your co-worker seems to have a very narrow-minded view of what a cyclist is. The fact that you
ride solo and not competitively or in a peloton doesn't make you any less of a cyclist than
those who do.

It wasn't just tcompetition - though that did seem to one of his points - it was also the
unbstructured nature of my cycling. It would be somewhat analgous to saying the only proper
baseball is what MLB says is and sanctions as apropriate. IOW someone who plays a sandlot game is a
_Real_ baseball player.

I'm not worried about his acceptance. I've grown beyond seeking the approval of others for such
things. I just found it an interesting standard for him to have. And it wasn't like he was doing it
to diss me. He had a mental definition of what it meant to be a 'cyclist' that I found curious.

--
'Just because you're wearing a tie Doesn't mean you're bloody important'

- chumbawumba

"Pbwalther" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

By his definition; using a bike for basic transportation and for

recreation

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

doesn't make one a cyclist. He is pretty much a jock type: recreational hockey, golf, softball,
and football

Quoted message said:

& rugby in his younger days.

Well, this seems to be a definition thing. Who knows exactly what he is thinking of?

He could have a certain bit a justified thinking in trying to limit the

term

Quoted message said:

"cyclist" to people who are more than "casual". From your account he

seems to

Quoted message said:

think that taking part in organized events is a sort of affirmation.

We got into it a bit more and it turns out he didn't consider what I did to be a sport. Not that
cycling isn't a sport but that what I did wasn't. He assumed because I didn't compete. against
others[again organized], I didn't strive for and track, best time, best speed, longest distance
etc. [actually I do and showed him some of the things my 'puter tracked but he still could not
accept what I did as sport.

Again, I'm not saying he is a bad person, nor that I'm looking to him for affirmation: I just found
it an odd mindset. He's a decent enough guy. But while other auto-addicts who know simply consider
me odd for eschewing the Kar Kulture, they would not have a problem with calling me a cyclist. He
did because of this mindset.

As I said; curious.

--
'Just because you're wearing a tie Doesn't mean you're bloody important'

- chumbawumba

Quoted message said:

He probably does not realize that cycling ranges from very structured

events

Quoted message said:

like races to less structured events like sanctioned centuries to

completely

Quoted message said:

independent activities like self contained touring.

Personally, I am more impressed by the lady who hops on her touring bike

loaded

Quoted message said:

with 50 lbs of gear and proceeds to ride across the North American

Continent

Quoted message said:

all alone on her bike and with no support than the hot shot who does a sub

5

Quoted message said:

hour century in a pace line. Then there are the commuters who ride

through

Quoted message said:

rain and fog and snow and gloom of night all on roads thronged with crazed drivers and they do
this unscathed.

I think the variety of impressive things that cyclists do makes cyclists a

bit

Quoted message said:

more flexible about whom they accord the honorific "cyclist" to than in

some

Quoted message said:

other sports.

"Rich Clark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"loki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Dunno why I'm relating this episode. It just struck be as a curious way

to

Quoted message said:

look at cycling.and those who shall or shall not be deemed 'cyclists'.

Comments?

So, does this guy drive to work? Does he not consider himself to be a "driver"?

Good question. I guess his analogy would be that I was like an auto-driver who considers
himself a professional NASCAR driver because he drives a car to and from work and for fun
around town on weekends.

--
'Just because you're wearing a tie Doesn't mean you're bloody important'

- chumbawumba

Tue, 20 Jan 2004 01:39:24 -0800, <[email hidden]>,

(Tom Keats) said:

Anyhow, "rider" fills the bill as good as "cyclist". Maybe "[bi]cycler" would do the trick, too.

Ignoring for a moment its obvious gender bias, I still like "wheelman". Its history gives it some
dignity. "Wheelperson" will never cut it.
--
zk

"Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "loki"

Quoted message said:

Comments?

I think people who actually use their bike as part of the way they live (transportation, commuting,
shopping, etc.), are cyclists in the purest form.

A definition of "cyclist" should be broad enough to cover anyone who rides a bike regularly. If only
I had a good definition of "regularly."

Quoted message said:

Words and labels are just food for thought.

Often labels are used as substitutes for thought.

Quoted message said:

And as Walt Kelly's Pogo once said: "food for thought is no substitute for the real thing."

"I have seen the enemy and he is us."

loki said:

We got into it a bit more and it turns out he didn't consider what I did to be a sport.

In that case, I would agree with him. Sport presumes competition. I would call recreational cycling
an outdoor activity or athletic pursuit, but never a sport.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA terrymorse.combikeOpen ↗

"loki" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<4v6Pb.19255

<Stuff about what makes a cyclist a cyclist>

Well, just for comparison, there's a guy I see all the time on the road who I definitely consider a
cyclist. His bike seems to something along the lines of a cruiser frame; can't make out a lot of
details because of the big trash bags he's always carrying on the back, and sometimes in front. He
wears street clothes with one of those heavy reflective vests like road construction workers wear, a
helmet is his only concession to cyclist's wear. I'll see him at any time of day over about a 15
mile area, in almost any weather, pedalling just fast enough to keep the bike moving. I may ride
faster than he does, but I bet he puts in a lot more hours on his bike. Anyone who uses a bike that
much is a cyclist in my book, and the heck with competition or the cyclist image.

"Terry Morse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

loki said:

We got into it a bit more and it turns out he didn't consider what I did

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be a sport.

In that case, I would agree with him. Sport presumes competition. I would call recreational
cycling an outdoor activity or athletic pursuit, but never a sport.

Yabut!

Can't one compete against oneself? Is not the act of running in the New York City marathon a sport?
If so how does it not become a sport if a person decided to run the same course a month later or
before on their own, trying to beat their personal best?

I don't see how not having a group of people around you makes it any more of a sport.

--
'Just because you're wearing a tie Doesn't mean you're bloody important'

- chumbawumba

"Terry Morse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

loki said:

We got into it a bit more and it turns out he didn't consider what I did

to

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be a sport.

In that case, I would agree with him. Sport presumes competition. I would call recreational
cycling an outdoor activity or athletic pursuit, but never a sport.

No, but it's still cycling. Running for fitness is still running, and people who do it are still
runners. To contend that someone isn't a cyclist just because they don't compete is to put one's
opinions ahead of the facts.

RichC

loki said:

Terry Morse said:

Sport presumes competition. I would call recreational cycling an outdoor activity or athletic
pursuit, but never a sport.

Yabut!

Can't one compete against oneself? Is not the act of running in the New York City marathon a
sport? If so how does it not become a sport if a person decided to run the same course a month
later or before on their own, trying to beat their personal best?

A trip to the dictionary brings forth. Definitions 1 and 2 say that sport is a physical activity
with specific rules and customs, and often done competitively. Definition 3 says sport is
recreation.

Cycling fits definition 3 for sure, but 1 and 2 are a tougher fit. Cycling in general has no
specific rules as a game would.
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA terrymorse.combikeOpen ↗

loki said:

He laughed at the idea that I would consider myself a cyclist. You see I don't compete. I don't
'race' either off-road or on. I don't participate in organized events....

By his definition; using a bike for basic transportation and for recreation doesn't make one a
cyclist.

Yet, if he stood at the water cooler and asked people "Are you a golfer?" everyone who golfs once a
month would say "Yeah, I golf."

Personally, I think a guy who dresses in shiny multicolored clothes and tries to ride fast on the
weekend is a cyclist. But no more than the family man who rides to the ice cream store with his
kids. And not so much as a guy who does long tours, or who uses the bike for a significant portion
of his transportation.

IOW, I guess my prejudices are the opposite of your friend's prejudices!

--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, omit what's between "at" and "cc"]

Quoted message said:

Loki said:

Whilst discussing life, politics and the meaning of existence a co-worker who knows me well
enough described me as an anarchist [I'm not - it was merely a bit of good humoured banter and
devil's advocacy] because, as is my habit of perusing widely differing types of currents affairs
mags from radical left to radical right to the mushy middle, I was reading an anarchist
magazine. My reply was that I didn't consider myself anything that ended in -ist with the
possible exception of cyclist.

He laughed at the idea that I would consider myself a cyclist. You see I don't compete. I don't
'race' either off-road or on. I don't participate in organized events. I commute year-round and
get about town by bike. In season I go on 20 km, 50 km, even 70 km rides regularly and have
clocked a couple in the 100-200 km range. But according to him I am not a 'cyclist' because I do
this alone, untimed, and not in organized events.

By his definition; using a bike for basic transportation and for recreation doesn't make one a
cyclist. He is pretty much a jock type: recreational hockey, golf, softball, and football &
rugby in his younger days. [He _might_ get on a bike twice in a summer and would not even
consider using a bike for a 7 km commute to work and instead drives an SUV.] In his mind a
_real_ cyclist is pretty much in the Lance Armstrong mould I guess. Or it should at least be as
part of an organized event like his 'sports'.

Dunno why I'm relating this episode. It just struck be as a curious way to look at cycling.and
those who shall or shall not be deemed 'cyclists'.

Comments?

By his definition, only current NBA/NFL/NASCAR/M?B/IRL/MLB players are 'real'
basketball/football/baseball players/drivers. Have him go down to a college bowl, into the locker
room or onto the bench, and tell them they aren't real basketball/football/baseball players. Have
him go down to a truck stop, and tell a bunch of truck drivers they are not real drivers cause they
dont race. After these statements, get a count of the number of his bones that were broken.