Normal for this Crank Bros pump?

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

I picked up a glass shard in my road tire yesterday and used my new Crank
Bros Power Pump (http://www.crankbrothers.com/powerpump_alloy.php) to
fill my spare tube, though I nearly gave up before I sorted the pump out.

It took me a while on the roadside to figure out that the pressure gauge
dial needs to face the desired outlet (presto/schrader) or the air goes no
place useful. Maybe this was mentioned on the packing material somewhere
but I didn't have that stuff with me. With that little hurdle cleared, I
pumped for a while but was unable to get more than 80 psi/6 bar into the
tube. The alignment between the pump head and the valve had to be "just
so" to keep air from leaking -- if I'd been closer to the highway and
traffic noise I might not have been able to hear the hissing caused by
misalignment.

Anyway, it took a lot of strokes for that measly 80 psi. Rode home
carefully to avoid pinch flats. Is my experience kinda normal for this pump?

Aren't those Crank Brothers pumps the ones you have to half-fill your
tire, then fiddle with the pump to put it into high pressure mode?
Maybe you should laminate a copy of the instructions.

That, or get a Topeak "Morph" pump. The hose assures good head/valve
alignment, the peg/t-handle combine to make pumping easy. I hear their
gauges are horrid, however (I have an older gauge-free version.)

Brian Huntley said:

On Feb 24, 5:47 pm, Mike Rocket J Squirrel

Quoted message said:

I picked up a glass shard in my road tire yesterday and used my new Crank
Bros Power Pump (http://www.crankbrothers.com/powerpump_alloy.php) to
fill my spare tube, though I nearly gave up before I sorted the pump out.

Quoted message said:

It took me a while on the roadside to figure out that the pressure gauge
dial needs to face the desired outlet (presto/schrader) or the air goes no
place useful. Maybe this was mentioned on the packing material somewhere
but I didn't have that stuff with me. With that little hurdle cleared, I
pumped for a while but was unable to get more than 80 psi/6 bar into the
tube. The alignment between the pump head and the valve had to be "just
so" to keep air from leaking -- if I'd been closer to the highway and
traffic noise I might not have been able to hear the hissing caused by
misalignment.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, it took a lot of strokes for that measly 80 psi. Rode home
carefully to avoid pinch flats. Is my experience kinda normal for this pump?

Aren't those Crank Brothers pumps the ones you have to half-fill your
tire, then fiddle with the pump to put it into high pressure mode?
Maybe you should laminate a copy of the instructions.

That, or get a Topeak "Morph" pump. The hose assures good head/valve
alignment, the peg/t-handle combine to make pumping easy. I hear their
gauges are horrid, however (I have an older gauge-free version.)

Second for the Topeak Morph pumps. Make sure you get the right one for
your bike. The road model makes a lot more pressure, but the mountain
model seems to pump a lot more volume.

On 2/24/2008 7:48 PM Brian Huntley said:

Aren't those Crank Brothers pumps the ones you have to half-fill your
tire, then fiddle with the pump to put it into high pressure mode?
Maybe you should laminate a copy of the instructions.

Yeah, it has a "high pressure/low volume" setting and a "low pressure/high
volume" setting. For a road tube, the low pressure setting made a faint
farting sound, but didn't put anything into the tire, according to
calibrated thumb reading and the pump's pressure dial.

Quoted message said:

That, or get a Topeak "Morph" pump. The hose assures good head/valve
alignment, the peg/t-handle combine to make pumping easy. I hear their
gauges are horrid, however (I have an older gauge-free version.)

I have/had one of those. Have too look around for it. The gauge is goofy,
it's true, esp. for an oldster like me who needs to wear reading glasses
to see it, unlike a nice clock-face dial.

--

Mike Rocket J Squirrel

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

On 2/24/2008 7:48 PM Brian Huntley said:

Aren't those Crank Brothers pumps the ones you have to half-fill your
tire, then fiddle with the pump to put it into high pressure mode?
Maybe you should laminate a copy of the instructions.

Yeah, it has a "high pressure/low volume" setting and a "low pressure/high
volume" setting. For a road tube, the low pressure setting made a faint
farting sound, but didn't put anything into the tire, according to
calibrated thumb reading and the pump's pressure dial.

Quoted message said:

That, or get a Topeak "Morph" pump. The hose assures good head/valve
alignment, the peg/t-handle combine to make pumping easy. I hear their
gauges are horrid, however (I have an older gauge-free version.)

I have/had one of those. Have too look around for it. The gauge is goofy,
it's true, esp. for an oldster like me who needs to wear reading glasses
to see it, unlike a nice clock-face dial.

I used my little Road Morph just the other day for roadside repair.
True it can be kind of fiddly to deploy and use - especially in the
pre-dawn cold and dark (or... um... is there really such thing as
"cold" and "dark"? :-) Getting the tire pumped up was the easiest
part of the process - even though I could barely feel my fingers and
sure couldn't see well enough to even try and read the built-in
gauge. I am extremely satisfied with this pump so far.

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

I picked up a glass shard in my road tire yesterday and used my new Crank
Bros Power Pump (http://www.crankbrothers.com/powerpump_alloy.php) to
fill my spare tube, though I nearly gave up before I sorted the pump out.

It took me a while on the roadside to figure out that the pressure gauge
dial needs to face the desired outlet (presto/schrader) or the air goes no
place useful. Maybe this was mentioned on the packing material somewhere
but I didn't have that stuff with me. With that little hurdle cleared, I
pumped for a while but was unable to get more than 80 psi/6 bar into the
tube. The alignment between the pump head and the valve had to be "just
so" to keep air from leaking -- if I'd been closer to the highway and
traffic noise I might not have been able to hear the hissing caused by
misalignment.

Anyway, it took a lot of strokes for that measly 80 psi. Rode home
carefully to avoid pinch flats. Is my experience kinda normal for this pump?

--
Mike Rocket J Squirrel

I like the Dutch Fietserbond reports; they have down-to-earth
comprehensible test methods, and I've never caught them out in an
engineering mistake or even a poor judgement; they are brutal to
pretenders. You can get a translation from Google's translator:
Best portable pumps:
http://www.fietsersbond.nl/urlsearchresults.asp?itemnumber=8455&viewtype=popup
Not the best but adequate pumps:
http://www.fietsersbond.nl/?eiw/pompen/8499/detail/niet_de_beste%2C_maar_wel_van_voldoende_kwaliteit.html
Absolutely useless pumps:
http://www.fietsersbond.nl/?eiw/pompen/8455/detail/welke_pompjes_voldoen_niet%3F.html
Good stay-at-home pumps:
http://www.fietsersbond.nl/?eiw/pompen/1085/detail/wat_is_een_goede_fietspomp_voor_thuis%3F.html
Test method (basically so much time pumping with with each pump, then
measured the pressure):
http://www.fietsersbond.nl/?eiw/pompen/8457/detail/de_testmethode.html

Andre Jute
http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20%26%20CYCLING.html

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

I picked up a glass shard in my road tire yesterday and used my new
Crank Bros Power Pump ( http://www.crankbrothers.com/powerpump_alloy.php
) to fill my spare tube, though I nearly gave up before I sorted the
pump out.

It took me a while on the roadside to figure out that the pressure gauge
dial needs to face the desired outlet (presto/schrader) or the air goes
no place useful. Maybe this was mentioned on the packing material
somewhere but I didn't have that stuff with me. With that little hurdle
cleared, I pumped for a while but was unable to get more than 80 psi/6
bar into the tube. The alignment between the pump head and the valve had
to be "just so" to keep air from leaking -- if I'd been closer to the
highway and traffic noise I might not have been able to hear the hissing
caused by misalignment.

Anyway, it took a lot of strokes for that measly 80 psi. Rode home
carefully to avoid pinch flats. Is my experience kinda normal for this
pump?

Yes this is normal for all minipumps. 9 bar? My ass!

Lou

On 2/25/2008 10:13 AM Lou Holtman said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, it took a lot of strokes for that measly 80 psi. Rode home
carefully to avoid pinch flats. Is my experience kinda normal for this
pump?

Yes this is normal for all minipumps. 9 bar? My ass!

That's pretty pathetic. Doesn't anyone review these things? -- or are all
the magazines and sites bought and paid for by advertising dollars?

--
Mike Rocket J Squirrel

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

On 2/25/2008 10:13 AM Lou Holtman said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, it took a lot of strokes for that measly 80 psi. Rode home
carefully to avoid pinch flats. Is my experience kinda normal for
this pump?

Yes this is normal for all minipumps. 9 bar? My ass!

That's pretty pathetic. Doesn't anyone review these things? -- or are
all the magazines and sites bought and paid for by advertising dollars?

Maybe, but we have to blame ourselves. Nobody can ignore the law of
physics. You did and you found out the hard way. You have two options:
get a proper frame pump, like the Road morph or get CO2 cartridges.
Good luck.

Lou

On 2/25/2008 12:58 PM Lou Holtman said:

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

On 2/25/2008 10:13 AM Lou Holtman said:

> Anyway, it took a lot of strokes for that measly 80 psi. Rode home
> carefully to avoid pinch flats. Is my experience kinda normal for
> this pump?
>

Yes this is normal for all minipumps. 9 bar? My ass!

That's pretty pathetic. Doesn't anyone review these things? -- or are
all the magazines and sites bought and paid for by advertising dollars?

Maybe, but we have to blame ourselves. Nobody can ignore the law of
physics. You did and you found out the hard way. You have two options:
get a proper frame pump, like the Road morph or get CO2 cartridges.
Good luck.

What's the law o' physics which says that the Road Morph pump can create
more pressure than the Crank Bros pump?

--
Mike Rocket J Squirrel

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

>> Anyway, it took a lot of strokes for that measly 80 psi. Rode home
>> carefully to avoid pinch flats. Is my experience kinda normal for
>> this pump?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lou Holtman wrote:
> Yes this is normal for all minipumps. 9 bar? My ass!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's pretty pathetic. Doesn't anyone review these things? -- or are
all the magazines and sites bought and paid for by advertising dollars?

Quoted message said:

Lou Holtman said:

Maybe, but we have to blame ourselves. Nobody can ignore the law of
physics. You did and you found out the hard way. You have two options:
get a proper frame pump, like the Road morph or get CO2 cartridges.
Good luck.

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

What's the law o' physics which says that the Road Morph pump can create
more pressure than the Crank Bros pump?

For road tires, long-n-skinny requires less suffering than short-n-fat.

At halfway down the pump, you've got 2bar, at 3/4 you have 4 bar etc
(less inefficiencies of course). Small volume tires at relatively high
pressures are easier to inflate with a long skinny pump. Air mattresses
are easier with the 'pedal' type short-n-fat models.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 2/25/2008 2:46 PM A Muzi said:

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

What's the law o' physics which says that the Road Morph pump can create
more pressure than the Crank Bros pump?

For road tires, long-n-skinny requires less suffering than short-n-fat.

At halfway down the pump, you've got 2bar, at 3/4 you have 4 bar etc
(less inefficiencies of course). Small volume tires at relatively high
pressures are easier to inflate with a long skinny pump. Air mattresses
are easier with the 'pedal' type short-n-fat models.

Oh -- right. That makes sense. With an inch-long stroke you'd get 8 bar in
the last 1/8th inch. Not a lot of volume there. So a 10-inch stroke could
reach 8 bar in the final 1.25 inches, which is a tad more volume.

I gotta find my missing Road Morph -- I don't recall it being a whole lot
longer than this Crank Bros unit, tho', so I'm not sure how/why it can be
better. I'm a short guy and ride a small frame, and I need a short pump to
fit the seat tube -- I like my pump on the seat tube.

Still and all, I suppose I will get a CO2. Though given my general
ineptitude, I fully expect to have to fall back on the stupid pump anyway.

--
Mike Rocket J Squirrel

"Mike Rocket J Squirrel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On 2/25/2008 12:58 PM Lou Holtman said:

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

On 2/25/2008 10:13 AM Lou Holtman wrote:

>> Anyway, it took a lot of strokes for that measly 80 psi. Rode home
>> carefully to avoid pinch flats. Is my experience kinda normal for
>> this pump?
>>
>
> Yes this is normal for all minipumps. 9 bar? My ass!
>
That's pretty pathetic. Doesn't anyone review these things? -- or are
all the magazines and sites bought and paid for by advertising dollars?

Maybe, but we have to blame ourselves. Nobody can ignore the law of
physics. You did and you found out the hard way. You have two options:
get a proper frame pump, like the Road morph or get CO2 cartridges.
Good luck.

What's the law o' physics which says that the Road Morph pump can create
more pressure than the Crank Bros pump?

It's pressure against volume. With a minipump you need for high pressure a
lot of force if you also want some volume per stroke. But your handforce is
limited so the makers take a skinny barrel and then you have no volume so it
takes a lot of strokes to fill the tire at that pressure (three molecules
per stroke). With the Road Morph you can transfer your force more effective
because it stands on the ground and you don't need to balance your wheel
with you pump while pumping avoiding air leak because it has a hose with a
clamp.

http://home.planet.nl/~holtm072/plaatjes/pompopfiets.jpg

Lou

-snip-

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> minipumps

Lou Holtman wrote:
-snip-

Quoted message said:

(three molecules per stroke)

-snip-

cleaning up my keyboard now, thanks
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Lou Holtman said:

It's pressure against volume. With a minipump you need for high
pressure a lot of force if you also want some volume per stroke. But
your handforce is limited so the makers take a skinny barrel and then
you have no volume so it takes a lot of strokes to fill the tire at
that pressure (three molecules per stroke). With the Road Morph you
can transfer your force more effective because it stands on the
ground and you don't need to balance your wheel with you pump while
pumping avoiding air leak because it has a hose with a clamp.

http://home.planet.nl/~holtm072/plaatjes/pompopfiets.jpg

Sorry, Lou, I just can't trust someone with a bike that clean.

Bill "Andrew's reply got me to look" S.

Bill Sornson said:

Lou Holtman said:

It's pressure against volume. With a minipump you need for high
pressure a lot of force if you also want some volume per stroke. But
your handforce is limited so the makers take a skinny barrel and then
you have no volume so it takes a lot of strokes to fill the tire at
that pressure (three molecules per stroke). With the Road Morph you
can transfer your force more effective because it stands on the
ground and you don't need to balance your wheel with you pump while
pumping avoiding air leak because it has a hose with a clamp.

http://home.planet.nl/~holtm072/plaatjes/pompopfiets.jpg

Sorry, Lou, I just can't trust someone with a bike that clean.

Bill "Andrew's reply got me to look" S.

Sorry guys, but that photo was taken just before this bike went in
winter storage. I have this nasty habit to clean it thoroughly before that.
How about one of my winterbikes:

http://home.planet.nl/~holtm072/plaatjes/ATBafterRide.jpg

Lou, "Andrew you can stop cleaning your keyboard now"

Den 24.02.2008 kl. 23:47 skrev Mike Rocket J Squirrel
<[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

I Is my experience kinda normal for this pump?

I though Crank Brothers was a particularly inventive constructor of
bicycle components, since they made such simple and efficient pedal as the
Eggbeater. So in confidence to the brand I ordered the PowerPunp with a
gauge in a webshop. I didn't find out what an extraordinary inefficient
pump it was, untill I had to use it a very early morning in a 24 hour
event. It turned out to be a lousy pump - even for a mini pump it is very
inefficient.
I would feel dishonest if I tried to sell it, so I tried to give it away
to whoever wanted to pick it up or to pay the cost of mailing it. Nobody
wants it for free either - so I guess the best I can do is to recycle the
metal.

Ivar

On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:46:48 -0600, A Muzi <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mike Rocket J Squirrel wrote:
>>> Anyway, it took a lot of strokes for that measly 80 psi. Rode home
>>> carefully to avoid pinch flats. Is my experience kinda normal for
>>> this pump?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Lou Holtman wrote:
>> Yes this is normal for all minipumps. 9 bar? My ass!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> That's pretty pathetic. Doesn't anyone review these things? -- or are
> all the magazines and sites bought and paid for by advertising dollars?

Quoted message said:

Lou Holtman said:

Maybe, but we have to blame ourselves. Nobody can ignore the law of
physics. You did and you found out the hard way. You have two options:
get a proper frame pump, like the Road morph or get CO2 cartridges.
Good luck.

Mike Rocket J Squirrel said:

What's the law o' physics which says that the Road Morph pump can create
more pressure than the Crank Bros pump?

For road tires, long-n-skinny requires less suffering than short-n-fat.

At halfway down the pump, you've got 2bar, at 3/4 you have 4 bar etc
(less inefficiencies of course). Small volume tires at relatively high
pressures are easier to inflate with a long skinny pump. Air mattresses
are easier with the 'pedal' type short-n-fat models.

That's easy for you to say 8-)

After a pump failure, I wnet to the LBS. They didn't have the model I
wanted and I ended up walking out with a Mt bike pump, short and
thick. Didn't dawn on me til I tried it out: lots of volume at low
prssure, not too good for that 100 psi needed to avoid squirrelly
turns when road biking.

Why is it that you, well I, have to actually do something to "get" it?

Oh well ;0