No trains for charity cyclists

In "]news:[email hidden],
Chris Brady <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Travelling by train in the UK is a nightmare anyway -
period - but with a bicycle its a total nightmare.

ITYM travelling by train in the UK can be inconvenient, and
with a bike it may often be inconvenient.

A

NewsReader said:

Quoted message said:

Intersting that Southern is so profitable that it can
turn away custom to the tune of £20 x 5,000 = £100,000

Of course, the question could also be asked (I really *am*
agnostic on this topic) as to what the economic fare that
should be for cyclists on trains, since simple logic
suggests the footprint required for a passenger and
accompanying bicycle is inevitably much greater than that
of of a normal passenger ....

I would like to think most cyclists wouldn't mind paying a
premium to be able to take their bike with them (that
premium to be decided)

The issue here was that the rolling stock in place cannot
cope with these passengers, even if you were to charge them
£10 000 each.

This is different to previous years, where it could.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Dwb

BNewsReader said:

Quoted message said:

Intersting that Southern is so profitable that it can
turn away custom to the tune of £20 x 5,000 = £100,000

Of course, the question could also be asked (I really *am*
agnostic on this topic) as to what the economic fare that
should be for cyclists on trains, since simple logic
suggests the footprint required for a passenger and
accompanying bicycle is inevitably much greater than that
of of a normal passenger ....

I would like to think most cyclists wouldn't mind paying a
premium to be able to take their bike with them (that
premium to be decided)

The issue here was that the rolling stock in place cannot
cope with these passengers, even if you were to charge them
£10 000 each.

This is different to previous years, where it could. [/B]

The problem seems to be that new rolling stock is not being designed with anyone in mind but commuters. Anyone travelled ona Virgin Voyager over christmas? Poor shop bloke on my train was ordered to close the shop and take the trolley up and down the carriages, and managed to get 2 rows in when he was confronted by bags in the aisle. The reason, there are no luggage spaces at the end of these carraiges and the above head space is 9 inches high! Seems we not only have no integrated transport prolicy, we have no policy in place to accommodate passengers!

Bryan

in message <[email hidden]>, dwb

(') said:

NewsReader said:

Quoted message said:

Intersting that Southern is so profitable that it can
turn away custom to the tune of £20 x 5,000 = £100,000

Of course, the question could also be asked (I really
*am* agnostic on this topic) as to what the economic fare
that should be for cyclists on trains, since simple logic
suggests the footprint required for a passenger and
accompanying bicycle is inevitably much greater than that
of of a normal passenger ....

I would like to think most cyclists wouldn't mind paying a
premium to be able to take their bike with them (that
premium to be decided)

The issue here was that the rolling stock in place cannot
cope with these passengers, even if you were to charge
them £10 000 each.

The issue is that to get an old flatbed freight wagon, bolt
bike racks on it and couple it to the end of the train would
cost all of, ooooooh, maybe a couple of thousand nicker. But
that would be an innovative response to customer demand, and
we can't have that.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗

;; An enamorata is for life, not
just for weekends.

"dwb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The issue here was that the rolling stock in place cannot
cope with these passengers, even if you were to charge
them £10 000 each.

This is different to previous years, where it could.

There's a whole fleet of trains lying idle which would
appear to be very suitable for conveying a large number of
bikes from Brighton to London. I refer to the Class 325
postals. Unfortunately AIUI they can't couple to Southern
Class 375/377 or to Southern/Thameslink Class 319, so the
bikes would have had to go in separate trains. But it does
seem ridiculous that so much potential revenue was rejected
for lack of what should have been a very straightforward
solution. Peter

Simon Brooke said:

The issue is that to get an old flatbed freight wagon,
bolt bike racks on it and couple it to the end of the
train would cost all of, ooooooh, maybe a couple of
thousand nicker. But that would be an innovative response
to customer demand, and we can't have that.

"In Business" on R4 last week was all about the change in
business language, including how it's all changing from
daring to do innovative things to making sure you never do
anything much at all. The change from "passengers" to
"customers" was singled out as removing the basic imperative
of getting people where they want to go from the operating
vernacular of transport companies. It was interesting, but
all rather sad...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

in message <[email hidden]>, Ambrose Nankivell

(') said:

In "]news:[email hidden],
Chris Brady <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Travelling by train in the UK is a nightmare anyway -
period - but with a bicycle its a total nightmare.

ITYM travelling by train in the UK can be inconvenient,
and with a bike it may often be inconvenient.

Nightmare. Such A Bloody Experience Never Again, to quote
the now-defunct Belgian airline's mission statement. The
last three times I had a business meeting in London I booked
full price first class returns on the West Coast Main Line.
The sum of lateness of those three return journeys was well
over fifteen of your English hours (i.e. over 50% of the
total advertised journey time), and the total time spent
standing (when I had a booked, paid for seat) was eight
hours[1] or getting on for a third of the total advertised
journey time.

What did I receive in compensation for this appalling
performance? Why, vouchers redeemable against rail
travel! Thanks and all that, but no thanks. It's no way
to run a railroad.

[1] On one journey, they'd hugely oversold second class
tickets. So they had seated second class passengers in
first class, and the guard would not ask these people to
move or stand - so I stood all the way from Carlisle to
London. On another, the train broke down completely at
Milton Keynes and we were transferred to an already over-
crowded commuter train. On this occasion we were also
five hours late - on a five hour journey. On a third
journey, on the return leg they'd overbooked first
class, so another gentleman had a reservation ticket for
the same seat as mine. Fortunately he was only
travelling to Crewe.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke)
jasmine.org.uk~simonOpen ↗ ;; This email may contain
confidential or otherwise privileged ;; information, though,
quite frankly, if you're not the intended ;; recipient and
you've got nothing better to do than read other ;; folks'
emails then I'm glad to have brightened up your sad little
;; life a tiny bit.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Simon Brooke said:

The issue is that to get an old flatbed freight wagon,
bolt bike racks on it and couple it to the end of the
train would cost all of, ooooooh, maybe a couple of
thousand nicker. But that would be an innovative

And might, just might, be cleared for 60mph running, thus
causing the train to occupy additional paths. Seen the cost
of those? And that's before we point out ``couple? with
that?'' given that multiple units aren't equipped with any
couplers that freight stock uses. And then there's the
matter of brakes, as if it's fitted stock you'd need to be
able to ensure the brakes worked correctly, and for unfitted
stock you'd need a safety case.

ian

Ian G Batten said:

In article <e06jq1-
[email hidden]>, Simon Brooke

Quoted message said:

The issue is that to get an old flatbed freight wagon,
bolt bike racks on it and couple it to the end of the
train would cost all of, ooooooh, maybe a couple of
thousand nicker. But that would be an innovative

And might, just might, be cleared for 60mph running,
thus causing the train to occupy additional paths.
Seen the cost of those? And that's before we point out
``couple? with that?'' given that multiple units
aren't equipped with any couplers that freight stock
uses. And then there's the matter of brakes, as if
it's fitted stock you'd need to be able to ensure the
brakes worked correctly, and for unfitted stock you'd
need a safety case.

Put them on the roof ;-)

(the bicycles, not the people)

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In "]news:[email hidden],
Chris Brady <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Travelling by train in the UK is a nightmare anyway -
period - but with a bicycle its a total nightmare.

ITYM travelling by train in the UK can be inconvenient,
and with a bike it may often be inconvenient.

ITYM "Travelling by train in the UK is almost always
inconvenient, and with a bike it is a dead certainty that it
will be inconvenient."
--
"I'm constantly shocked at how low ARKites opinions are of
me. Probably shouldn't be, but I am." - Stacia in ARK

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:e06jq1-

Quoted message said:

The issue is that to get an old flatbed freight wagon,
bolt bike racks on it and couple it to the end of the
train would cost all of, ooooooh, maybe a couple of
thousand nicker. But that would be an innovative response
to customer demand, and we can't have that.

But the Health and Sanity Executive would need to approve
the bicycle bolting system. It would probably take them a
year or two.
--
Bruce Fletcher Stronsay, Orkney
/"]http:[email hidden]/

"Peter Masson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There's a whole fleet of trains lying idle which would
appear to be very suitable for conveying a large number
of bikes from Brighton to London. I refer to the Class
325 postals. Unfortunately AIUI they can't couple to
Southern Class 375/377 or to Southern/Thameslink Class
319, so the bikes would have had to go in separate
trains. But it does seem ridiculous that

so

Quoted message said:

much potential revenue was rejected for lack of what
should have been a

very

Quoted message said:

straightforward solution.

Although the 325s are privately-owned (by Royal Mail) and
are, currently, not serviceable. Nevertheless, if GBRf do
come to be operating these units later in the year, on
behalf of Royal Mail, it might be the kind of innovative
business opportunity that they are keen on exploiting!

Mark South said:

ITYM "Travelling by train in the UK is almost always
inconvenient, and with a bike it is a dead certainty that
it will be inconvenient."

For values of "always" not including any train journey I've
made in the last year.

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after
posting. chapmancentral.co.ukchapmancentral.co.ukOpen ↗

Mark South said:

ITYM "Travelling by train in the UK is almost always
inconvenient, and with a bike it is a dead certainty that
it will be inconvenient."

Where "bike" != "folding bike, especially Brompton".

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111
ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382
640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net
[email hidden] dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:30:26 GMT someone who may be Bryan
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

The problem seems to be that new rolling stock is not being
designed with anyone in mind but commuters.

Largely correct. However, that is the way government wants
it and that is the way government has specified new trains
via their agents the Department of Roads, Franchise
Director and (shadow) "Strategic" Rail Authority (in
chronological order).

Quoted message said:

there are no luggage spaces at the end of these carraiges

Not quite. There are some luggage spaces at the ends and
there are some in the middle. These will take large luggage
and recently some of the end ones were expanded by removing
two seats to give a space for very large items of luggage.
There is also, unlike earlier trains, space designed under
the seats for smaller bags, but few passengers realise this
and Virgin are not good at pointing it out.

Quoted message said:

and the above head space is 9 inches high!

It takes my rucksack and my various bags.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number
F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK
government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:20:31 +0200 someone who may be "Mark South"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

ITYM "Travelling by train in the UK is almost always
inconvenient, and with a bike it is a dead certainty that
it will be inconvenient."

That's funny. I see people with bikes on many of the train
journeys that I make. They seldom seem to be inconvenienced.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number
F566DA0E I will always explain revoked keys, unless the UK
government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

In "]news:[email hidden],
Just zis Guy, you know? <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Mark South said:

ITYM "Travelling by train in the UK is almost always
inconvenient, and with a bike it is a dead certainty that
it will be inconvenient."

For values of "always" not including any train journey
I've made in the last year.

Or me, unless you count the time everyone started getting on
the train when I was trying to wheel my bike off round a
narrow corner, so I had to carry it along the carriage to
get it to the door without a logjam in it. It was mainly a
failure of my assertiveness, but it was decidedly
humiliating.

I've also misread a timetable to very annoying effect in the
last year, with the assumption it would be the same as 5
years ago, which it wasn't.

But apart from that, no major hassles.

A

On 21 Jun 2004 05:16:58 -0700, [email hidden] (Chris

Brady) said:

Despite the introduction of new rolling stock - Southern /
South Central / ex-Connex STILL have a number of the older
slam door trains. So why they couldn't they have used these
is a moot point. I nearly went on the L2B run on Sunday on
the spur of the moment but am now glad that I didn't.
Indeed without rail transport back to London I will NEVER
go on it again. It seesm to me that once again a Railco has
decided on an anti-cyclist stance. Travelling by train in
the UK is a nightmare anyway - period - but with a bicycle
its a total nightmare.

A lightweight bike bag is a simple low tech solution. It
involves removing wheels, pedals and turning the handlebars
90 degrees. A bit of a hassle, admittedly, but it works well
enough on the French train network.

Mark South said:

"Ambrose Nankivell" <[email hidden]>
wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In "]news:[email hidden],
Chris Brady <[email hidden]> typed:

Quoted message said:

Travelling by train in the UK is a nightmare anyway -
period - but with a bicycle its a total nightmare.

ITYM travelling by train in the UK can be inconvenient,
and with a bike it may often be inconvenient.

ITYM "Travelling by train in the UK is almost always
inconvenient, and with a bike it is a dead certainty that
it will be inconvenient."

I've had nothing but good experiences in the UK. Certainly
better than in France where a bike bag is a near necessity
if you want to use the TGV.

Recent journeys with a bike have included, Paddington to
Totnes, Paddington to Swansea, Paddington to Taunton, Lee to
Waterloo East, Lee to London Bridge, Lee to Charing Cross,
Paddington to Penzance, Waterloo to Witley, Waterloo to
Havant return, London Bridge to Headcorn, Waterloo to Paris
Gare du Nord return, Lockerbie to Euston. Never any hassle.