no more muscle size.

Lance1965 said:

Hi everyone,
I would like to increase my power output without necessarily increasing my muscle size. I understand that to increase my power output i need to do efforts in a very big gear at low cadences (50-55rpm). I have very large legs in the first place which have been that way all my life. I don't want them to get any bigger.

why do you need to do efforts in a big gear at a low cadence?

ric

Lance1965 said:

Hi everyone,
I would like to increase my power output without necessarily increasing my muscle size. I understand that to increase my power output i need to do efforts in a very big gear at low cadences (50-55rpm). I have very large legs in the first place which have been that way all my life. I don't want them to get any bigger.

Hi Lance, welcome to the forum. Recent threads have discussed the topic you mention here, with good advice from several posters. I'd suggest you peruse the forum a bit and get a feel for the advice which has been given. If you have questions based on what you read, then by all means post them. When you do, it would also help us to understand what type of cycling you do, what events you are training for, how long you've been training, that sort of thing. 🙂

Lance1965 said:

Hi everyone,
I would like to increase my power output without necessarily increasing my muscle size. I understand that to increase my power output i need to do efforts in a very big gear at low cadences (50-55rpm). I have very large legs in the first place which have been that way all my life. I don't want them to get any bigger.

If you've already got big powerful legs, all you need is more leg speed and aerobic capacity to produce more power. Road cycling is an aerobic-endurance sport after all, a lot more like running than weight-lifting.

Believe your answer is to forget the heavy grunting and work on developing a fast, smooth cadence (eg, at least 90-100 rpm) in a fairly light gear.

According to what I read by a certain Ferrari, he concluded the secret for making Lance unbeatable was this whole high rpm issue. He concluded Ethiopian runners were running inefficiently by not using the normal long strides. They were using short rapid strides. This was what Ferrari figured Lance needed - high rpm's to suit his particular structure.
However, he didn't feel the same held good for Ullrich. Ullrich was naturally suited to slower rpm's and, hence, more muscular drive from the legs.
Myself I experimented a little using a computer. It seems I lose speed when I stand as opposed to sitting. I feel better using midrange rpm's as well. Presently I use a 53/12 for my biggest gear.

Have you guys got anywhere near these magic numbers yet? I note Tyler Hamilton's power output at a weight of 130 pounds was pretty impressive. It involves a certain amount of maths.
I'll post when I remember what the magic ratio is as cited by Ferrari.

Carrera said:

It seems I lose speed when I stand as opposed to sitting. I feel better using midrange rpm's as well. Presently I use a 53/12 for my biggest gear.

Me too strangely. Standing up isn't an option for me when climbing reasonable grades. It only pays in > 10% situations.

But a friend of mine, a hockey player (only rides during summer time to better prepare for hockey season) an amazing climber. His map is probably well over 400w. He weights 190pounds when very very fit. He lives for climbing, eat hills off the saddle, no matter the duration.

He broke a Cannondale frame earlier this season in JPeak (off the saddle all the way of course). So he spent most of the summer time climbing on a heavy MTB waiting to get his frame back.

I think I will lend him my bike someday, to see how those power files look like when he starts the season at 210 pounds.

Carrera said:

Myself I experimented a little using a computer. It seems I lose speed when I stand as opposed to sitting.

Do this apply when sprinting, too? You do use your arms to pull in conjunction with your legs, right? I couldn't imagine. 😕

I suspect Tyler was pushing some 450 watts and he weighs 130 pounds!
I watch my computer on certain climbs and you can see the digits drop when I either gear down or stand up. Once I drop a gear, down it goes 12.8 mph. If I make a gargantuan effort and stay with the bigger gear I can keep it at close to 14 mph.
The only way I can compensate for standing is by upping a gear and trying to push the cadence up a bit.
At any rate, if you push out well over 400 watts and you only weight 130 pounds, figure it out. In numbers, Tyler has even surpassed Lance on occasions and he's an amazing climber. He lives high and trains low.

SolarEnergy said:

Me too strangely. Standing up isn't an option for me when climbing reasonable grades. It only pays in > 10% situations.

But a friend of mine, a hockey player (only rides during summer time to better prepare for hockey season) an amazing climber. His map is probably well over 400w. He weights 190pounds when very very fit. He lives for climbing, eat hills off the saddle, no matter the duration.

He broke a Cannondale frame earlier this season in JPeak (off the saddle all the way of course). So he spent most of the summer time climbing on a heavy MTB waiting to get his frame back.

I think I will lend him my bike someday, to see how those power files look like when he starts the season at 210 pounds.

I'm not really a sprinter and don't know too much about it. I like to climb but the weird thing is I don't train as a climber ought to. Climbers are usually very slight of build although I believe the sprinters seem to do O.K. on medium grades. It's just the very steep grades that leave the sprinters dropped.

frenchyge said:

Do this apply when sprinting, too? You do use your arms to pull in conjunction with your legs, right? I couldn't imagine. 😕

Carrera said:

I suspect Tyler was pushing some 450 watts and he weighs 130 pounds!

You suspect wrongly. The highest known sustained figure is ~6.5 W/kg. If we assume (rightly or wrongly) that TH got to that level drug free and then took Epo/blood doping/etc and gained 10% (which is beyond what he would gain) that would only bring him to ~420 W

ric

ric_stern/RST said:

You suspect wrongly. The highest known sustained figure is ~6.5 W/kg. If we assume (rightly or wrongly) that TH got to that level drug free and then took Epo/blood doping/etc and gained 10% (which is beyond what he would gain) that would only bring him to ~420 W

ric

So if 10% is beyond what you'd expect him to gain, what seems more likely?

ric_stern/RST said:

You suspect wrongly. The highest known sustained figure is ~6.5 W/kg. If we assume (rightly or wrongly) that TH got to that level drug free and then took Epo/blood doping/etc and gained 10% (which is beyond what he would gain) that would only bring him to ~420 W

ric

I thought that the "magic number" is 6.7 w/kg. It also said in Lance Armstrongs War that Tylers was 7 w/kg during the tour

Ric, I may well have got it wrong as I was trying to remember offhand. I'm currently reading a book called "Tour De Force" that includes some details of this Ferrari guy training Lance and Floyd Landis and it also gives Tyler's power and weight ratio. I'll let you all know the exact figure the writer gives and this ideal ratio he goes on about.

ric_stern/RST said:

You suspect wrongly. The highest known sustained figure is ~6.5 W/kg. If we assume (rightly or wrongly) that TH got to that level drug free and then took Epo/blood doping/etc and gained 10% (which is beyond what he would gain) that would only bring him to ~420 W

ric

That rings a bell. I know both Tyler Hamilton and Iban Mayo had the potential to be TDF winners but the crashes they suffered stuffed up their plans big time. Poor old Tyler was brought down in a sprint pile up in the penultimate tour and hurt his back. Lance is lucky in as much as he's only ever crashed badly on a couple of occasions. Tyler in his peak had this incredible power to weight ratio.

Jacob24 said:

I thought that the "magic number" is 6.7 w/kg. It also said in Lance Armstrongs War that Tylers was 7 w/kg during the tour

joemw said:

So if 10% is beyond what you'd expect him to gain, what seems more likely?

less than 10%, depending (i think) on where he started.

According to the figures I have, Armstrong recorded 493 watts during a test with Ferrari on a 1 kilometer climb. He weighed 163 pounds at the time and registered 6 per cent body fat. His overall number was, therefore, 6.66. Tyler managed 440 watts at a weight of 130 pounds.

Carrera said:

According to the figures I have, Armstrong recorded 493 watts during a test with Ferrari on a 1 kilometer climb. He weighed 163 pounds at the time and registered 6 per cent body fat. His overall number was, therefore, 6.66. Tyler managed 440 watts at a weight of 130 pounds.

we're talking about climbs of ~1-hr not 1-kilometre

ric