No keyed washer on headset

On Thu, 15 Apr 2004 05:01:07 GMT, Rick Warner

may have said:

A friend just bought an early 90's custom Italian frame. Overall
nice, and I am cleaning it up, servicing all the bearings, making
adjustments, etc. for her. Just opened up the headset (1" threaded)
and find there is no keyed washer. Further, the fork has no slot
cut to accept a keyed washer. Hmmm. How does/will this
work? Any precautions I should take to keep the headset from
loosening?

It's been in use for 10 years that way. This is a big hint.

Snug the locknut a bit more than normal, and it should work just fine.

--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Typoes are not a bug, they're a feature.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

rick-<< Overall
nice, and I am cleaning it up, servicing all the bearings, making
adjustments, etc. for her. Just opened up the headset (1" threaded)
and find there is no keyed washer. Further, the fork has no slot
cut to accept a keyed washer. >><BR><BR>

We file the notch off these washers as they tend to rotate and screw up fork
threads. Not needed when ya use proper technique and tools to tighten/adjust a
HS.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Rick Warner said:

A friend just bought an early 90's custom Italian frame. Overall
nice, and I am cleaning it up, servicing all the bearings, making
adjustments, etc. for her. Just opened up the headset (1" threaded)
and find there is no keyed washer. Further, the fork has no slot
cut to accept a keyed washer. Hmmm. How does/will this
work? Any precautions I should take to keep the headset from
loosening?

If you've oiled or greased the threads, the top adjusting
race and the locknut will jam together nicely with no tab
washer. There is no drawback to running a headset without a
tab washer. Relax.

If you prefer a tab washer for any reason, cut a
squared-section keyway in your fork with a riffler (curved)
file -but no deeper than absolutely necessary to clear the
tab. Personally I wouldn't bother. But if you do it, don't
overdo it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

First of all, the keyed washer is not a lockwasher. It's to keep the cup
from turning when you tighten the lockNUT.

If you have two spanners, one for the cup, one for the locknut, it is
not necessary. Which most cyclists who do their own repairs, all shops
and professional team mechanics have.

An un-keyed washer will work fine. If your headset is properly tightened
down, it won't loosen up.

- -

"May you have the wind at your back.
And a really low gear for the hills!"

Chris Zacho ~ "Your Friendly Neighborhood Wheelman"

Chris'Z Corner
http://www.geocities.com/czcorner

Thanks all for the comments on the washer. I can live without a key,
just was curious that this never had one.

I have cleaned the frame, coated inside of tubes with framesaver
and starting to put it back together. The headset had bearings in
retainers top and bottom, 20 x 5/32". Not quite sure of the year
or model of headset, but the bike is early 90's and the components
all look to be Campy Athena so I assume that the headset it likely
from the gruppo (anyway to confirm?). Anyway, the headset does
not seem to fit correctly with those retainer bearings; as tight as I
can wrench it it still seems to need to be tightened a bit more. I
suspect that at least the lower race had larger bearings (3/16" ?)
originally. Anyone know? Any way to find out?

Thanks,

- rick

Chris Zacho said:

First of all, the keyed washer is not a lockwasher. It's to keep the
cup from turning when you tighten the lockNUT.

Quoted message said:

If you have two spanners, one for the cup, one for the locknut, it
is not necessary. Which most cyclists who do their own repairs, all
shops and professional team mechanics have.

Quoted message said:

An un-keyed washer will work fine. If your headset is properly
tightened down, it won't loosen up.

I have taken the washer out if there was enough threads in the nut or
filed the tab off to prevent thread damage. The tab washer is a poor
idea and does not work as imagined by its inventor.

What is less apparent in many instances, is that the "lock nut" is
the principal load bearer and not just a locking device. The bearing
cup, that has plenty of threads in it that do not directly bear the
load, while the lock nut with only a few threads, takes the brunt of
any impact load of the bearing. The steer tube is not such a bad one
but wheel bearing lock nuts are much worse off, with only a thread and
a half, they are mostly unloaded when the QR is tightened. I don't
think bicycle parts designers give these concepts any thought.

These are the hidden snags that cause problems in, for instance,a the
recent disc brake discussion.

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]

Rick Warner said:

Thanks all for the comments on the washer. I can live without a key,
just was curious that this never had one.

I have cleaned the frame, coated inside of tubes with framesaver
and starting to put it back together. The headset had bearings in
retainers top and bottom, 20 x 5/32". Not quite sure of the year
or model of headset, but the bike is early 90's and the components
all look to be Campy Athena so I assume that the headset it likely
from the gruppo (anyway to confirm?). Anyway, the headset does
not seem to fit correctly with those retainer bearings; as tight as I
can wrench it it still seems to need to be tightened a bit more. I
suspect that at least the lower race had larger bearings (3/16" ?)
originally. Anyone know? Any way to find out?

Early 90s? Campagnolo had not yet developed big bearing on
bottom/ small bearing on top headsets yet. If it is a
Campagnolo headset the pieces will say so. Many
manufacturers use offbrand headsets in otherwise Campagnolo
bikes. If it doesn't feel right, you might get another
opinion about the ball size and count. We've discussed here
recently that bearing retainers are commonly flipped over, too.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Quoted message said:

all look to be Campy Athena so I assume that the headset is likely
from the gruppo (anyway to confirm?).

I've been playing with some 1970's / 1980's nuovo record and triomphe
headsets recently. if you clean the top of the ball bearing retainer
and look at it carefully, it should say "brev campagnolo italy" if its
campy. otherwise its generic. The only other place it probably says
campy if its a lower-end model, such as victory / triomphe /athena, is
if you removed the races from the head tube and look at the outside of
the top race. the "brev campagnolo italy" is normally pressed up
against the inside of your head tube where nobody can ever see it.
victory/tiomph crown races don't say anything on the bottom ; nuovo
record ones identify as brev campagnolo italy.

- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA

A Muzi <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Rick Warner wrote:

Quoted message said:

Early 90s? Campagnolo had not yet developed big bearing on
bottom/ small bearing on top headsets yet. If it is a
Campagnolo headset the pieces will say so. Many
manufacturers use offbrand headsets in otherwise Campagnolo
bikes. If it doesn't feel right, you might get another
opinion about the ball size and count. We've discussed here
recently that bearing retainers are commonly flipped over, too.

Thanks for the input. I know which way the retainers go, and they
were correct. Over the weekend I replaced them with 5/32" loose
balls, and the issue is the same. Perhaps I will just get it as tight
as I can and let it go at that for a while, and eventually replace
it with a known entity.

- rick

Rick Warner said:

Quoted message said:

Early 90s? Campagnolo had not yet developed big bearing on bottom/
small bearing on top headsets yet. If it is a Campagnolo headset
the pieces will say so. Many manufacturers use off brand headsets in
otherwise Campagnolo bikes. If it doesn't feel right, you might get
another opinion about the ball size and count. We've discussed here
recently that bearing retainers are commonly flipped over, too.

I think you mean the ball cage and these only fit one way with 20 balls
on those Campagnolo bearings.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the input. I know which way the retainers go, and they
were correct. Over the weekend I replaced them with 5/32" loose
balls, and the issue is the same. Perhaps I will just get it as
tight as I can and let it go at that for a while, and eventually
replace it with a known entity.

I don't know what you mean by "as tight as I can" but the head bearing
should be adjusted so that it turns freely between fingertips (without
the wheel and handlebars attached to the fork. The closest way to
approach that without removing the bars and wheel is to lift the
bicycle tilted forward just enough so that the front wheel lazily
swings to center with the bearing adjusted so that it does not chatter
when bouncing the front wheel on the floor.

This routine requires some skill but it is a lot faster than taking
the bars and wheel off to do it the precise way. This will also
reveal an indexed bearing because when it doesn't chatter it will
index, coming to an oscillating stop in a set of dimples. The trick
is to not tilt the bicycle farther forward than just enough to make a
properly adjusted bearing swing from side to side, other wise it won't
reveal whether the bearing is too tight.

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/8f.13.html

Jobst Brandt
[email hidden]