No! I won't!

In article <[email hidden]>,

DappleAndWasser said:

In as much as we evolved from omnivores, and in as much as all souls
are eternal (so killing animals is not an ethical problem), I see no
reason to be vegan, other than to reduce one's sexual lust. And,
personally, I have no desire to reduce my sexual lust.

By being a vegan, you miss out on the best proteins (whey) and the
best fats (fish oil).

"No whey!" (vegan motto)

Quoted message said:

No. I won't help you be a vegan, or a healthier vegan.

Aw, c'mon. Help just a little bit. You can do it.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

"DappleAndWasser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In as much as we evolved from omnivores, and in as much as all souls
are eternal (so killing animals is not an ethical problem), I see no
reason to be vegan, other than to reduce one's sexual lust.

Environmental impact--each successive trophic level in the
food chain is approximately an order of magnitude more
destructive than the one below it, but some are several
orders of magnitude more destructive.

Quoted message said:

By being a vegan, you miss out on the best proteins (whey) and the
best fats (fish oil).

One can put together a completely plant-based meal
with an EAA profile similar to whey.

One can also buy algae-based DHA sources. Ari Simopoulos
reports that wild purslane, a terrestial plant, is a source
of EPA. Also, we will have soon have precursors to DHA
and EPA that convert more easily than ALA in our
vegetable oils in the supermarket.

"Vashti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It wasn't a dark and stormy night when DappleAndWasser said:

Steve <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Fish get their omega 3's from algae oil, which you can now buy in
vegetarian capusles, its called "Omega 3 Zen DHA".

Thanks for the info. I will look into it.

I found it cheaper to use flax(linseed) oil.

i find flax oil to be a little bit nasty tasting. i use this 'ultimate oil
blend' stuff called 'udo's oil.' it's got flax oil in it, but also
sunflower and other stuff, apparently to give the proper omega ratio. i
read somewhere that the ratio of omegas 3 to 6 is more important than just
dosing with omega 3s. sounds like a good idea. anyhow, i find it tastes
much more agreeable, although i always use it in stuff (like smoothies and
salad dressing). my dad takes it straight on a spoon each morning. that
man has a gullet of steel. ick.

Quoted message said:

Vashti

It wasn't a dark and stormy night when katie said:

i find flax oil to be a little bit nasty tasting. i use this
'ultimate oil blend' stuff called 'udo's oil.' it's got flax oil in
it, but also sunflower and other stuff, apparently to give the proper
omega ratio. i read somewhere that the ratio of omegas 3 to 6 is more
important than just dosing with omega 3s. sounds like a good idea.
anyhow, i find it tastes much more agreeable, although i always use it
in stuff (like smoothies and salad dressing). my dad takes it
straight on a spoon each morning. that man has a gullet of steel.
ick.

I use it in salad dressing: with garlic, onion, herbs and some orange
juice to balance the nasty flavour of the oil it's great. I like it with
a salad of various leafy greens(especially the bitter ones).

I've tried to find other oils and even though my ex runs a health food
store he says he can't order anything else, not even vegetarian Omega 3
supplements but my guess is he's hardly trying though availability may
be different here in the Netherlands.

Of all things today I found I've a folic acid deficiency on top of the
inability to absorb B12 despite eating all all the foods that should
provide it so I think I need to add more stuff containing vitamin C.

Vashti

Steve <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

David Wright said:

Quoted message said:

By being a vegan, you miss out on the best proteins

Protien complementation actually results in higher quality protien

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

best fats (fish oil).

Fish get their omega 3's from algae oil, which you can now buy in
vegetarian capusles, its called "Omega 3 Zen DHA".

Doh!

Doesn't cooking the fish convert the omega oils to trans fats?

Quoted message said:

Steve
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/

"The great American thought trap: It is not real unless it can be seen
on television or bought in a shopping mall"

Ron wrote:
<..>

Quoted message said:

Doesn't cooking the fish convert the omega oils to trans fats?

No. Stupid.

"usual suspect" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

<..>

Quoted message said:

Doesn't cooking the fish convert the omega oils to trans fats?

No. Stupid.

Yes. Smart. PUFAs are prone to such conversion on exposure
to heat, light, pressure, etc... with the omega3 series being
more sensitive than the omega6s and the longer chain FAs
(EPA, DHA) more sensitive than the shorter chain FAs (ALA).

But, the amount of destruction depends on the cooking method
and duration. Frying appears to be the most destructive cooking
method.

Most destruction occurs around the skin.

refs:

Davis BC, Kris-Etherton PM. Achieving optimal essential fatty acid status
in vegetarians: current knowledge and practical implications. Am J Clin Nutr
2003; 78 (Suppl): 640S-646S

Mozaffarian D, Lemaitre RN, Kuller LH, Burke GL, Tracy RP, Siscovick DS;
Cardiovascular Health Study. Cardiac benefits of fish consumption may
depend on the type of fish meal consumed: the Cardiovascular Health
Study. Circulation 2003; 107: 1372-1377

"usual suspect" <[email hidden]> wrote

You don't understand the meaning of *unstable*
where it relates to a carbon-carbon bond in a
polyunsatuated fatty acid. You don't understand
all that the cis-configuration implies, or even some
of it. You irrationally insist that they are indestructable.
You are incorrect, and there is no shame in that,
however, you should not be so bold as to insult
others when you clearly do not understand what
you are writing, or to deliberately mislead them
when you are clearly in the wrong.

Quoted message said:

Ipse dixit. Your sources, as I will kindly show you, do not support this statement.

Full articles do, not necessarily abstracts.

Quoted message said:

You're misstating the claims of the studies you erroneously cited. Frying isn't
"destructive,"

No, I am not. I did not claim that the full explanation
was in any abstract.

Exposure to heat, light, temperature, pressure, etc.
are all destructive. Longer exposures to higher
extremes are most destructive. The destruction of
long-chain omega3s in fish, or any other substance
containing omega3s, for that matter, begins at the
surface of the object that is cooking and works its
way inward towards the center with increasing time,
temperature, and/or pressure.

"Vashti" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It wasn't a dark and stormy night when katie said:

i find flax oil to be a little bit nasty tasting. i use this
'ultimate oil blend' stuff called 'udo's oil.' it's got flax oil in
it, but also sunflower and other stuff, apparently to give the proper
omega ratio. i read somewhere that the ratio of omegas 3 to 6 is more
important than just dosing with omega 3s. sounds like a good idea.
anyhow, i find it tastes much more agreeable, although i always use it
in stuff (like smoothies and salad dressing). my dad takes it
straight on a spoon each morning. that man has a gullet of steel.
ick.

I use it in salad dressing: with garlic, onion, herbs and some orange
juice to balance the nasty flavour of the oil it's great. I like it with
a salad of various leafy greens(especially the bitter ones).

I've tried to find other oils and even though my ex runs a health food
store he says he can't order anything else, not even vegetarian Omega 3
supplements but my guess is he's hardly trying though availability may
be different here in the Netherlands.

Of all things today I found I've a folic acid deficiency on top of the
inability to absorb B12 despite eating all all the foods that should
provide it so I think I need to add more stuff containing vitamin C.

that sucks. i guess everyone's absorbency is different, no matter what they
eat. i'm lucky, in that i seem to be able to absorb everything fine and
don't need to supplement anything. my iron is always good, which is great,
considering how people always harp at me about that one (😄) i do take a
half-dose iron-free multi sometimes just to be sure, but i like to try to
force myself to eat well in order to get everything from my diet, so i won't
be like 'i'm taking vitamins so i can live off of soy icecream and white
bread.' uuuughhh...anyhow, i hope you can sort out your absorbancy thing.
have you tried taking sublingual b12 tablets? i've always heard those
recommended for those folks with b12 absorption problems. although i think
you need shots if you really really can't absorb your b12. that would suck.
anyhow, best of luck getting your nutrients acting all good n' proper!