Nine dollars for an adjusting screw?

(Jim Flom) said:

My LBS guy sold me a single Merlin derailer barrel adjusting screw for a braze-on for $9. Seems
like a lot. Is that reasonable? I asked if it was Ti and he made a face. This is a guy who told me
Ultegra brakes were $90 a pair then when I went to buy them a couple of weeks later he charged me
$100. Thanks.

Jim

Sounds like he could have got $10 off you. My LBS charged me $0 for a spare HG sprocket spacer,
which is about the same value. I'll be going back to my LBS to buy more stuff, will you?

Kinky Cowboy

*Your milage may vary Batteries not included May contain traces of nuts.

You're paying for stocking and hassle with cheap stuff; on the other hand, you can walk in
and buy it.

Everybody charges about double what it costs them in retail; they don't live high even so. Half of
them go out of business.

The brakes might be the dollar falling, so cost to him goes up.

On the other hand, I never use a LBS. Mail order is fast enough.
--
Ron Hardin [email hidden]

On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

Jim Flom said:

My LBS guy sold me a single Merlin derailer barrel adjusting screw for a braze-on for $9. Seems
like a lot. Is that reasonable? I asked if it was Ti and he made a face. This is a guy who told
me Ultegra brakes were $90 a pair then when I went to buy them a couple of weeks later he charged
me $100.

Why on earth did you go back to this guy?

--

David L. Johnson

__o | A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored _`\(,_ | by little statesmen
and philosophers and divines. --Ralph Waldo (_)/ (_) | Emerson

Ron Hardin said:

You're paying for stocking and hassle with cheap stuff; on the other hand, you can walk in
and buy it.

Everybody charges about double what it costs them in retail; they don't live high even so. Half of
them go out of business.

Sad to see and distressing when you just came by on an ailing bike to find them shuttered.

Quoted message said:

The brakes might be the dollar falling, so cost to him goes up.

I dunno about that. I haven't seen a chalkboard with currency conversions and I scored a HAC4+ for
far less than currency conversion would allow on even the lowest euro price. More likely: then and
there you get the $90 deal, later they forget such a conversation took place.

Quoted message said:

On the other hand, I never use a LBS. Mail order is fast enough.

I'm spoiled. I'm surrounded by LBS, probably due in no small part to the considerable tourist trade
around here and the considerable number of locals who ride. (Saturday road rides can number up to 90
people, including some pros who put the hurt on lesser riders such as myself.) Easy enough to
establish a relationship with shops, when you scoot in the door every week, whether you buy or not,
and deals can be had. ("Hey, you know those skewers you were looking for? We found a set in a box in
the back, we'll sell 'em to you for half retail if you still want them.", etc.)

(Jim Flom) said:

My LBS guy sold me a single Merlin derailer barrel adjusting screw for a braze-on for $9. Seems
like a lot. Is that reasonable? I asked if it was Ti and he made a face. This is a guy who told me
Ultegra brakes were $90 a pair then when I went to buy them a couple of weeks later he charged me
$100. Thanks.

If it's a merlin-specific part the price was probably fair.

But if it's just a dropout adjuster, you can get a PAIR for $4.45 at www.loosescrews.com. And if
it's campy, you can get FOUR for $10 from wwcyclery on ebay (search by seller name.)

Most bike shops are in a difficult spot, as are new most auto dealers. Manufacturers won't let them
charge high prices for bikes, so instead they charge exhorbitant prices for parts, accessories,
repairs, and clothing. NO shop should charge more than 50% more than the best mail order price
available, for ANY product, and so it looks like, if this is a generic or campy part, that you would
have been badly screwed paying $9 for a PAIR of dropout adjusters.

- Don Gillies San Diego, CA

(Jim Flom) said:

My LBS guy sold me a single Merlin derailer barrel adjusting screw for a braze-on for $9. Seems
like a lot.

How much would it cost you to get it elsewhere?

Barry

Quoted message said:

From: "David L. Johnson"

Why on earth did you go back to this guy?

Well, the guy built up my bike for me. He was less pretentious than Shop A. People who like him,
like him. I philosophically favor supporting LBSs. The next closest high end shop is in Paoli, but
as good as they are I shouldn't go to that one because they sponsor(ed) a team that my team races
against. My team shop is a good 40 minutes away. Other close shops are Bike Lines, which (as you
know) tends to speak for itself in these parts. This guy is not getting rich. He has no employees
any more. He drives an ancient Dodge Caravan (maybe he's got a Lexus in his garage, but I doubt it).
Besides, I am moving far far away soon (which will totally upgrade my cycling, as good as it is
around here). So really, it looks like just a few more months. Besides, the jury seems out on
whether $9 under certain circumstances might be reasonable. The brakes were a test case. My only
regret is that I didn't have the presence of mind to stop the sale right then and there when I saw
that $100. But when I needed a new rear der I went the 40 minutes. Now it's just nickle and dime
stuff. Hence my Q about whether he's nickle and diming me on nickles and dimes. That's why.

"David L. Johnson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why on earth did you go back to this guy?

--

David L. Johnson

From my days in the bike store, I can say that customers attach a much bigger importance to price
than employees do. Customers tend to think we're trying to rip them off when really, we just don't
care that much about the price. I'm not saying it's not important, but after a while, the price
really didn't matter to me. If a good customer wanted $10 off on a brakeset, it was no problem.
OTOH, when I misquote from memory a price for something and I'm $10 too low, most customers didn't
care. The relationship with the shop was more important then arguing about nickels and dimes. You're
always free to go somewhere else.

Cheers,

Scott..

Donald Gillies said:

[email hidden] (Jim Flom) writes:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My LBS guy sold me a single Merlin derailer barrel adjusting screw for a braze-on for $9. ...

Quoted message said:

If it's a merlin-specific part the price was probably fair. But if it's just a dropout adjuster,
you can get a PAIR for $4.45 at www.loosescrews.com. And if it's campy, you can get FOUR for $10
from wwcyclery on ebay (search by seller name.) Most bike shops are in a difficult spot, as are
new most auto dealers. Manufacturers won't let them charge high prices for bikes, so instead they
charge exhorbitant prices for parts, accessories, repairs, and clothing. NO shop should charge
more than 50% more than the best mail order price available, for ANY product, and so it looks
like, if this is a generic or campy part, that you would have been badly screwed paying $9 for a
PAIR of dropout adjusters.

On the other hand, at least the bike shop sold the OP a barrel adjuster for derailleur cables, which
is what he needed, rather than a dropout adjusting screw for horizontal dropouts, which is what you
are talking about. If going to the LBS prevents this kind of miscommunication, it is certainly
worthwhile. BTW, don't forget the shipping charges.

I think my LBS charged $12 for a pair of standard Shimano barrel adjusters for DT brazeons. Sure,
they are a pair of ticky tack little parts. But cost of manufacture is the least of it - somebody
had to order these, ship them, put them in the right parts drawer, then get them out and sell them
to me 15 minutes before closing on Friday. I can't imagine they made a whale of profit on it, and
won't argue about whether it should cost $8 or $12.

So far as I know, bike shop markups on clothing, accessories, parts etc are no higher than in any
other small storefront retail biz. Surely this is true elsewhere; I expect the average camera store
has a higher margin selling film, developing, and service than cameras, too.

Richard Adams <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

[snip]

Quoted message said:

I'm spoiled. I'm surrounded by LBS, probably due in no small part to the considerable tourist
trade around here and the considerable number of locals who ride. (Saturday road rides can number
up to 90 people, including some pros who put the hurt on lesser riders such as myself.) Easy
enough to establish a relationship with shops, when you scoot in the door every week, whether you
buy or not, and deals can be had. ("Hey, you know those skewers you were looking for? We found a
set in a box in the back, we'll sell 'em to you for half retail if you still want them.", etc.)

Dear Richard,

Where, you lucky devil, is here?

Enviously,

Carl Fogel

Quoted message said:

From my days in the bike store, I can say that customers attach a much bigger importance to price
than employees do. Customers tend to think we're trying to rip them off when really, we just don't
care that much about the price. I'm not saying it's not important, but after a while, the price
really didn't matter to me. If a good customer wanted $10 off on a brakeset, it was no problem.
OTOH, when I misquote from memory a price for something and I'm $10 too low, most customers didn't
care. The relationship with the shop was more important then arguing about nickels and dimes.
You're always free to go somewhere else.

Cheers,

Scott..

And you dont work at the store anymore? Huh.

Interesting side question: Why not have a shop that ONLY deals in labor? I mean auto repair
facilities do not keep a whole lot in iventory. I know every time I need to get somethings it's the
old line "We will have to order that part". It seems to me that a shop that does a lot of work could
handle 3 or 4 shipments a week even with overnight shipping charges, when you spread that cost
between let's say 20 customers.

Why not order the parts from the best cost source and put them on for a fee? Couldnt this make money
for the mechanic / owner plus save costs for the customer? Nothing behind the scenes - the customer
would know where the parts come from (Nashbar, Performance, whatever). In fact, the receipt could
show the price for the parts used from several locations as proof of the best purchase price.

Just a side thought, but what do you think?

Dan

Benjamin Weiner said:

Donald Gillies said:

[email hidden] (Jim Flom) writes:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My LBS guy sold me a single Merlin derailer barrel adjusting screw for a braze-on for $9. ...

Quoted message said:

If it's a merlin-specific part the price was probably fair. But if it's just a dropout adjuster,
you can get a PAIR for $4.45 at www.loosescrews.com. And if it's campy, you can get FOUR for $10
from wwcyclery on ebay (search by seller name.) Most bike shops are in a difficult spot, as are
new most auto dealers. Manufacturers won't let them charge high prices for bikes, so instead they
charge exhorbitant prices for parts, accessories, repairs, and clothing. NO shop should charge
more than 50% more than the best mail order price available, for ANY product, and so it looks
like, if this is a generic or campy part, that you would have been badly screwed paying $9 for a
PAIR of dropout adjusters.

On the other hand, at least the bike shop sold the OP a barrel adjuster for derailleur cables,
which is what he needed, rather than a dropout adjusting screw for horizontal dropouts, which is
what you are talking about. If going to the LBS prevents this kind of miscommunication, it is
certainly worthwhile. BTW, don't forget the shipping charges.

I think my LBS charged $12 for a pair of standard Shimano barrel adjusters for DT brazeons. Sure,
they are a pair of ticky tack little parts. But cost of manufacture is the least of it - somebody
had to order these, ship them, put them in the right parts drawer, then get them out and sell them
to me 15 minutes before closing on Friday. I can't imagine they made a whale of profit on it, and
won't argue about whether it should cost $8 or $12.

So far as I know, bike shop markups on clothing, accessories, parts etc are no higher than in any
other small storefront retail biz. Surely this is true elsewhere; I expect the average camera store
has a higher margin selling film, developing, and service than cameras, too.

Quoted message said:

And you dont work at the store anymore? Huh.

Yes, but I'm fairly certain it's not from my attitude regarding pricing! The owner of the store felt
the same way. And our store outlasted a great many that were sticklers on the price and went
bankrupt in a few years. We, like Peter Chisholm, tried to focus on outstanding service, quality
workmanship and establishing customer relationships. Worked for us.

Cheers,

Scott..

S. Anderson said:

Quoted message said:

And you dont work at the store anymore? Huh.

Yes, but I'm fairly certain it's not from my attitude regarding pricing! The owner of the store
felt the same way. And our store outlasted a great many that were sticklers on the price and went
bankrupt in a few years. We, like Peter Chisholm, tried to focus on outstanding service, quality
workmanship and establishing customer relationships. Worked for us.

As opposed to your - albeit possibly mistaken - attitude about price not really mattering. Of course
price matters. It matters a great deal. There will always be people who are willing to pay for
service (myself one of them - sometimes) but not from someone who thinks it has to be one or the
other. A reasonable cost is one of the things that "outstanding service" should focus on. Servicing
the customers needs - including a reasonable cost.

Dan

"Dan Brussee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As opposed to your - albeit possibly mistaken - attitude about price not really mattering. Of
course price matters. It matters a great deal. There will always be people who are willing to pay
for service (myself one of them - sometimes) but not from someone who thinks it has to be one or
the other. A reasonable cost is one of the things that "outstanding service" should focus on.
Servicing the customers needs - including a reasonable cost.

Dan

I don't think I said it didn't matter, I said that employees attach less importance to price than
customers do. Bike shop guys have thousands of products and we look at them all day long,
installing, fixing, whatever. To us, it was just a brake, or just a derailleur. Some customers
research prices very extensively. You can see that here..people checking several online mail-order
places for prices and then checking around at several LBS's looking for the best price. I'd do jobs
and I'd see something that needed to be done and I'd just do it. You know, wheel needs 8 new spokes
because they dropped the chain in the back or something. I'd just go ahead and do it because to me,
8 spokes was nothing. I built 10 wheels a week, what's 8 spokes?? But some customers would add that
up and complain, or find a cheaper price per spoke than our shop. I'm not saying it's wrong for the
customer to do that (I meant that "they can go somewhere else" to mean they can shop around and find
the best price or service that suits them), but the perception between customer and shop is
different. To me, when you're truing 10 wheels a day, 8 spokes is nothing. To a customer who only
has 2 wheels, it can be a big deal.

Cheers,

Scott..

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Why on earth did you go back to this guy?

Well, the guy built up my bike for me. He was less pretentious than Shop A. People who like him,
like him. I philosophically favor supporting LBSs. The next closest high end shop is in Paoli, but
as good as they are I shouldn't go to that one because they sponsor(ed) a team that my team races
against.

Huh? You avoid a shop because they sponsor a racing team?

That might make some sense if you were somehow philosophically opposed to racing, but since you are
also a racer, it makes no sense at all.

It does reassure me that it is wise of Harris Cyclery to refrain from race sponsorship.

Sheldon "Doesn't Quite Understand The Racer Mentality" Brown
+-------------------------------------------+
| Good judgment comes from experience, | and experience comes from bad judgment. | --Fred Brook |
+-------------------------------------------+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone
617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041 harriscyclery.comharriscyclery.comOpen ↗ Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
captainbike.comcaptainbike.comOpen ↗ sheldonbrown.comsheldonbrown.comOpen ↗

--On Monday said:

Richard Adams <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

[snip]

Quoted message said:

I'm spoiled. I'm surrounded by LBS, probably due in no small part to the considerable tourist
trade around here and the considerable number of locals who ride. (Saturday road rides can number
up to 90 people, including some pros who put the hurt on lesser riders such as myself.) Easy
enough to establish a relationship with shops, when you scoot in the door every week, whether you
buy or not, and deals can be had. ("Hey, you know those skewers you were looking for? We found a
set in a box in the back, we'll sell 'em to you for half retail if you still want them.", etc.)

Dear Richard,

Where, you lucky devil, is here?

Enviously,

Carl Fogel

Living in big cities has advantages. LA has at least 4 dealers for any one major manufacturer within
20 minutes or so of my home (including Supergo and Helen's, the nation's largest specialized and
cannondale dealers within 12 blocks of each other), and Pittsburgh has one for each (at least)
within the metropolitan area.

In the words of Pulp Fiction, "move outta the sticks gentlemen."

Mike Mechanical Engineering 2006, Carnegie Mellon University Remove nospam to reply.

Dan Brussee said:

Interesting side question: Why not have a shop that ONLY deals in labor? I mean auto repair
facilities do not keep a whole lot in iventory. I know every time I need to get somethings it's
the old line "We will have to order that part". It seems to me that a shop that does a lot of work
could handle 3 or 4 shipments a week even with overnight shipping charges, when you spread that
cost between let's say 20 customers.

Why not order the parts from the best cost source and put them on for a fee? Couldnt this make
money for the mechanic / owner plus save costs for the customer? Nothing behind the scenes - the
customer would know where the parts come from (Nashbar, Performance, whatever). In fact, the
receipt could show the price for the parts used from several locations as proof of the best
purchase price.

Just a side thought, but what do you think?

Dan

Benjamin Weiner said:

Donald Gillies said:

[email hidden] (Jim Flom) writes:

Quoted message said:

>My LBS guy sold me a single Merlin derailer barrel adjusting screw for a braze-on for $9. ...

Quoted message said:

If it's a merlin-specific part the price was probably fair. But if it's just a dropout adjuster,
you can get a PAIR for $4.45 at www.loosescrews.com. And if it's campy, you can get FOUR for $10
from wwcyclery on ebay (search by seller name.) Most bike shops are in a difficult spot, as are
new most auto dealers. Manufacturers won't let them charge high prices for bikes, so instead they
charge exhorbitant prices for parts, accessories, repairs, and clothing. NO shop should charge
more than 50% more than the best mail order price available, for ANY product, and so it looks
like, if this is a generic or campy part, that you would have been badly screwed paying $9 for a
PAIR of dropout adjusters.

On the other hand, at least the bike shop sold the OP a barrel adjuster for derailleur cables,
which is what he needed, rather than a dropout adjusting screw for horizontal dropouts, which is
what you are talking about. If going to the LBS prevents this kind of miscommunication, it is
certainly worthwhile. BTW, don't forget the shipping charges.

I think my LBS charged $12 for a pair of standard Shimano barrel adjusters for DT brazeons. Sure,
they are a pair of ticky tack little parts. But cost of manufacture is the least of it - somebody
had to order these, ship them, put them in the right parts drawer, then get them out and sell them
to me 15 minutes before closing on Friday. I can't imagine they made a whale of profit on it, and
won't argue about whether it should cost $8 or $12.

So far as I know, bike shop markups on clothing, accessories, parts etc are no higher than in any
other small storefront retail biz. Surely this is true elsewhere; I expect the average camera
store has a higher margin selling film, developing, and service than cameras, too.

Our industry has had just-in-time inventory for years.

Here I get two or three shipments _per day_ every business day from my #1 supplier. Last one is
Friday evening - his wife drops at the bus station on the way home for our Saturday delivery.

Remember when every corner service station had nearly every belt hose and spark plug in stock? Cars
are way too complex for that now. Instead of a few standardized parts nearly every year/model is
nearly unique! My neighbor's service station gets deliveries from parts stores ( yes multiple)
several times per day. every half hour a truck pulls in all day long.

When I started buying as an employee I went out of the store with the salesman from our main
supplier every other Tuesday. We spent a couple of hours writing a parts order ( in longhand with
carbons) on several pages. He mailed that to the Company. Once there, someone transcribed it with a
typewriter, the order got pulled and packed the next day, picked up by a trucker later and
eventually delivered a week after it was ordered. You wouldn't even know that something was out of
stock/backordered for over a week! We absolutely could not survive in that environment today.

For starts, we do not buy a hundred each of two tires. It's a couple each of thirty tires now. And
moreover our customers expect that anything ordered at 4pm will arrive at eleven the next morning.
That's as long as we have or we'd lose the sale. In 95% of service we do have the part but only a
few and we reorder frequently. (example sealed BBs=one to three each of twenty sizes in four brands)
For something odd it's overnight. Wait longer? Ha! Then why shop here at all if you have to wait? My
customer would just go online or to one of the other dozen shops who could "maybe order one for
you". Keeping this together/functioning is real work, by the way, and vastly different at each store
in terms of frequency/depth of each item.

--
Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971

S. Anderson said:

"Dan Brussee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

As opposed to your - albeit possibly mistaken - attitude about price not really mattering. Of
course price matters. It matters a great deal. There will always be people who are willing to pay
for service (myself one of them - sometimes) but not from someone who thinks it has to be one or
the other. A reasonable cost is one of the things that "outstanding service" should focus on.
Servicing the customers needs - including a reasonable cost.

Dan

I don't think I said it didn't matter, I said that employees attach less importance to price than
customers do. Bike shop guys have thousands of products and we look at them all day long,
installing, fixing, whatever. To us, it was just a brake, or just a derailleur. Some customers
research prices very extensively. You can see that here..people checking several online mail-order
places for prices and then checking around at several LBS's looking for the best price. I'd do jobs
and I'd see something that needed to be done and I'd just do it. You know, wheel needs 8 new spokes
because they dropped the chain in the back or something. I'd just go ahead and do it because to me,
8 spokes was nothing. I built 10 wheels a week, what's 8 spokes?? But some customers would add that
up and complain, or find a cheaper price per spoke than our shop. I'm not saying it's wrong for the
customer to do that (I meant that "they can go somewhere else" to mean they can shop around and
find the best price or service that suits them), but the perception between customer and shop is
different. To me, when you're truing 10 wheels a day, 8 spokes is nothing. To a customer who only
has 2 wheels, it can be a big deal.

Certainly true enough. I stand corrected.