nice SUV article

Luigi de Guzman said:

For the record, I'm not a big-car opponent. I can see a lot of use in having that much carrying
volume. My dad has a 12 year old GMC safari van which we've used for carrying *everything*. And I
thumbs-up big F350's which are obviously working trucks--ladder racks, boxes of tools, etc. When
nothing else will do the job, I do not object to trucks--I do object to
trucks-as-passenger-vehicles. My consolation is that the days of this trend are numbered as rising
fuel prices--or proactive fuel-consumption regulation, as seems to be likeliy in California--will
price these out of practicality.

-Luigi

Quoted message said:

SMH

I can't understand why Americans haven't latched onto our Aussie ute. Remember the old El Camino?
Our utes are just sedans that are cut off at the b pillar and have a tray out the back. here's a
link holden.com.auvehicleentryOpen ↗ I think the only reason
you haven't got them is your Automotive workers union. They're the [censored] who are only letting in
18,000 Monaros (Pontiac GTO). Both are made right here in Adelaide along with the Diamante. Aaaah
I'm happy to live in a city where bikes, the Tour Down Under, and cars get along so very well.

--
Cheers Damian Harvey

Goths: If I looked like that I'd be depressed too.

"Mark Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It is not a matter of patriotic duty to burn as much oil as possible in your lifetime

You are right. It has nothing to do with patriotic duty, but rather it is about an individual's
right to buy and drive whatever they want to drive.

Is that in the Bill of Rights? Where does this right come from? What are the limits on this right?

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The so-called right to drive, is a privilege. There are restrictions on what one may operate on
our public roads. Consumers have been duped into believing they want to drive a truck.

OK, so I can't drive a AA Fuel dragster on the street.

The restrictions are not all that severe concerning what can be driven on the street. It might as
well be called a right when you consider how easy it is to get a license.

I don't believe that anyone has been duped. The auto makers keep making more varieties of SUVs
because demand is high and so are profits. You should realize that people buy what they want. It
just so happens that many of them want SUVs and huge trucks.

I wanted a truck for a long time before I bought it. I walked onto the car lot and pointed at the
one I wanted and drove away with it. No arm twisting or trying to sell me something else.

"rnh17" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is that in the Bill of Rights? Where does this right come from? What are the limits on this right?

You might want to check and see if you have a brain. It might have fallen out. The government
doesn't show up at our door and tell us what to buy. We go to the car dealer and get what we want
based on our ability to pay for it. This is our right as consumers in a market based economy.

"rnh17" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
|
| "Mark Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
| > "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
| > "]news:[email hidden]...
| > > It is not a matter of patriotic duty to burn as much oil as possible in your lifetime
| > You are right. It has nothing to do with patriotic duty, but rather it is about an individual's
| > right to buy and drive whatever they want to drive.
| >
| Is that in the Bill of Rights? Where does this right come from? What are the limits on this right?

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political
bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the
separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent
respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them
to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by
their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of
Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just
powers from the consent of the governed,

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed
by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit
of Happiness..."

from: The Declaration of Independence of the Thirteen Colonies

sorry no pictures, ED3

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Luigi de

Guzman) said:

something with a bit more class--and something that didn't handle like a whale on quaaludes.

-Luigi

that's a keeper!

Mark Jones said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It is not a matter of patriotic duty to burn as much oil as possible in your lifetime

You are right. It has nothing to do with patriotic duty, but rather it is about an individual's
right to buy and drive whatever they want to drive.

???

A right to drive whatever they want? Bulldozers? Open-wheeled racers? Go-carts? Vehicles which are
ten feet wide? Vehicles without brakes?

What an immensely silly idea! No such "right" exists. The motor vehicle laws of every state make
this plain.

--
Frank Krygowski [email hidden]

Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:54:12 -0600, <[email hidden]>, "Mark Jones"

Quoted message said:

The government doesn't show up at our door and tell us what to buy. We go to the car dealer and
get what we want based on our ability to pay for it. This is our right as consumers in a market
based economy.

Why can't people buy cars like these?
--
zk

Mark Jones said:

I don't believe that anyone has been duped. The auto makers keep making more varieties of SUVs
because demand is high and so are profits. You should realize that people buy what they want. It
just so happens that many of them want SUVs and huge trucks.

I wanted a truck for a long time before I bought it. I walked onto the car lot and pointed at the
one I wanted and drove away with it. No arm twisting or trying to sell me something else.

You don't realize that YOU were probably duped! Or, perhaps, you subconsciously do, which would
explain your persistence in arguing in favor of outsized vehicles.

"Arm twisting" isn't the way to dupe someone. The auto manufacturers dupe people by making them
_think_ SUVs are necessary for safety, necessary for getting around in snow or rain, desirable for
all the off-road driving they are likely to do, and good looking.

All are patently ridiculous ideas, but all are driven home by saturation advertising. The people who
are duped by the ads never realize they've been duped. They think they're walking onto the car lot
and making a smart choice.

If someone's been fooled by such tactics, they're not likely to realize it when the issue comes up
for discussion. And if they do realize it, they're even less likely to admit it.

And of course, we're unlikely to convince those people how silly your choice was. We will persist in
laughing at their gullibility, though, and regretting their lack of consideration for others.

--
Frank Krygowski [email hidden]

"Frank Krygowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...
| Mark Jones wrote:
| >
| > I don't believe that anyone has been duped. The auto makers keep making more varieties of SUVs
| > because demand is high and so are profits. You should realize that people buy what they want. It
| > just so happens that many of them want SUVs and huge trucks.
| >
| > I wanted a truck for a long time before I bought it. I walked onto the car lot and pointed at
| > the one I wanted and drove away with it. No arm twisting or trying to sell me something else.
|
| You don't realize that YOU were probably duped! Or, perhaps, you subconsciously do, which would
| explain your persistence in arguing in favor of outsized vehicles.
|
| "Arm twisting" isn't the way to dupe someone. The auto manufacturers dupe people by making them
| _think_ SUVs are necessary for safety, necessary for getting around in snow or rain, desirable for
| all the off-road driving they are likely to do, and good looking.
|
| All are patently ridiculous ideas, but all are driven home by saturation advertising. The people
| who are duped by the ads never realize they've been duped. They think they're walking onto the car
| lot and making a smart choice.
|
| If someone's been fooled by such tactics, they're not likely to realize it when the issue comes up
| for discussion. And if they do realize it, they're even less likely to admit it.
|
| And of course, we're unlikely to convince those people how silly your choice was. We will persist
| in laughing at their gullibility, though, and regretting their lack of consideration for others.
|
| --
| Frank Krygowski [email hidden]

I guess from your writing there is no such thing as independant thought; either one does exactly as
you do( actually as you would have them do), or they are a moron... interesting perspective of your
fellow man. A bit Orwellian, actually. Perhaps you could enlighten us cave dwellers as to how you
escaped the brain washing to which we fell victim ED3

In article <[email hidden]>, "Edward Dike, III"

Quoted message said:

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,

God made some men small, and some men tall, but Sam'l Colt made 'em all equal.

See? Quoting is as easy as professing to have principles. Living up to them is the hard part.
Especially when one's cold, hungry and needy. Talk is cheap. Principles aren't.

Now, here's a thought -- suppose there's a neighbourhood around a local school. All the
neighbourhood parents feel compelled, for some reasons or other, to obtain a SUV to drive their kids
to school. How about if they pooled what they'd spend on personal SUVs into a communal mini-bus, and
took turns driving it? After all, one of the main reasons people invoke as to why they bought an SUV
in the first place, is to bus kids around ... Jeez, maybe local School Boards could pick up the
ball; parents could chip-in towards it, and call the bus the "School Bus".

Wow!

What a revolutionary idea.

klahowya, Tom

Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:54:12 -0600, <[email hidden]>, "Mark Jones"

Quoted message said:

The government doesn't show up at our door and tell us what to buy. We go to the car dealer and
get what we want based on our ability to pay for it. This is our right as consumers in a market
based economy.

Why can't people buy cars like these?

smart.comsmart.comOpen ↗
--
zk

Edward Dike said:

I guess from your writing there is no such thing as independant thought; either one does exactly
as you do( actually as you would have them do), or they are a moron... interesting perspective of
your fellow man.

There obviously _is_ such a thing as independent thought. However, it's not likely to occur behind
eyeballs which watch a lot of advertisements on TV.

Quoted message said:

Perhaps you could enlighten us cave dwellers as to how you escaped the brain washing to which we
fell victim

Well, for one thing, I've always had lots of skepticism about mass media and about advertisements.
There are other factors as well. We can discuss if you're really interested.

--
Frank Krygowski [email hidden]

"Mark Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"rnh17" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Is that in the Bill of Rights? Where does this right come from? What

are

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the limits on this right?

You might want to check and see if you have a brain. It might have fallen out. The government
doesn't show up at our door and tell us what to buy. We go to the car dealer and get what we want
based on our ability to pay for it. This is our right as consumers in a market based economy.

No, but the government determines what can be sold. How can you discuss this right to buy vehicles
without intelligently discussing what dealers have a right to sell?

"Frank Krygowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

You don't realize that YOU were probably duped! Or, perhaps, you subconsciously do, which would
explain your persistence in arguing in favor of outsized vehicles.

It is you who are wrong. I drive a Ranger, which isn't even a full size truck. I got what I wanted
after looking at various trucks for a long time. I decided than a full size truck was too big for my
needs, so I got a smaller truck.

You seem to act on the belief that you are the only one who can make up their own mind about what
they want. This is being egotistical in the extreme for you to draw this conclusion.

I don't care if someone wants to drive an F-350 quad cab to the grocery store to pick up a gallon of
milk at the grocery store one block from their house if that is what they want to do.

I have considered getting another truck in addition to the one I have. It would be a supercharged
Ford Lightning. It would serve no real purpose other that being an incredibly fast pickup.

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:54:12 -0600, <[email hidden]>, "Mark Jones"

Quoted message said:

The government doesn't show up at our door and tell us what to buy. We go to the car dealer and
get what we want based on our ability to pay for it. This is our right as consumers in a market
based economy.

Why can't people buy cars like these?

smart.comsmart.comOpen ↗

Perhaps they don't meet federal safety standards or DaimlerChrysler doesn't want to sell them
in the U.S.

It is up to each car company to decide what they will bring to each market. It is then our choice to
pick from the vehicles available for sale. The retailer still has to have the product available
before it can be purchased.

Every car or truck made isn't available for sale in every country on the globe. There are some
sports cars made in Europe that would be great to own, but they aren't exported to the U.S.

"Frank Krygowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Well, for one thing, I've always had lots of skepticism about mass media and about advertisements.
There are other factors as well. We can discuss if you're really interested.

I don't care about mass media such as the auto magazines and TV commercials.

I go to the lot and check out what is available and what the prices are. If I see something I like,
I check it out online to see what others have to say. Is the vehicle a piece of junk or have others
had a good quality vehicle?

Fuel mileage is the last thing on my list of things to check. I don't drive enough miles in a year
for it to really matter.

Just because you don't understand auto enthusiasts doesn't make you right and them wrong. It just
makes you narrow minded. You seem to think that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Get
over yourself.

"Frank Krygowski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark Jones said:

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It is not a matter of patriotic duty to burn as much oil as possible in your lifetime

You are right. It has nothing to do with patriotic duty, but rather it is about an individual's
right to buy and drive whatever they want to drive.

???

A right to drive whatever they want? Bulldozers? Open-wheeled racers? Go-carts? Vehicles which are
ten feet wide? Vehicles without brakes?

What an immensely silly idea! No such "right" exists. The motor vehicle laws of every state make
this plain.

We have the right to buy any vehicle we want that has been certified for sale in the U.S. and that
the car companies have decided they want to offer for sale. If it is on the car lot and we have
enough money, we can buy it.

If you are going to respond, at least make some sense. We are talking about SUVs in this thread.
This is what you are arguing against, and yes we do have the right to buy these from the car
dealers. You would like to see these big, fuel hungry vehicles go away, but the car companies
respond to people with money by making even more of what they want. This won't change just because a
tiny minority of people wish SUVs would go away.

I want to see plenty of vehicle options, including trucks, SUVs, vans, high performance cars and
whatever else might show up on dealer lots. Choice is the opposite of what you are advocating.

"Zoot Katz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Why can't people buy cars like these?

smart.comsmart.comOpen ↗

I took an extended look at it and came to the conclusion that it looks like a kid's toy.

A top speed of 83.9 mph is kind of weak. I might consider something like a VW Beetle, but I would
never consider one of these things a possibility.

"Tom Keats" <tkeats@NO_SPAM.vcn.bc.ca> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jeez, maybe local School Boards could pick up the ball; parents could chip-in towards it, and call
the bus the "School Bus".

Nah, I think the parents should all trade in their SUVs for either Hummer H2's or H1's. Get
something with a little more style.