Nice move Horner...

"We both hesitated a little bit, and I needed him to lead it out to beat
him,"
Horner said on his tactics in the finale. "I just didn't have the fresh legs
from
leading out from a k [to go]. He [Chavanel] wanted me to pull through at
800,
700 metres, and I knew if I pulled through, I would have to lead it out from
there, so it wasn't an option for me to lead it out for the win."

is this an stupid statement or what?
so he preferred to finish 10th than 2nd,
or perhaps1st if he was lucky enough.

juani said:

is this an stupid statement or what?
so he preferred to finish 10th than 2nd,
or perhaps1st if he was lucky enough.

If your team director is watching closely, then he knows that:

a) You did a good job driving the break all day and getting good TV time
for the team

b) You didn't stuff up at the finish and let someone else win by being
unprofessional.

c) 10th is as good as 2nd in that kind of finish.

Horner's stock is very high with Saunier-Duval this year, since his Tour
de Suisse victory and his Tour performance has sustained that.

"juani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:jhXBe.1962994$6l.946022@pd7tw2no...

Quoted message said:

"We both hesitated a little bit, and I needed him to lead it out to beat
him,"
Horner said on his tactics in the finale. "I just didn't have the fresh
legs from
leading out from a k [to go]. He [Chavanel] wanted me to pull through at
800,
700 metres, and I knew if I pulled through, I would have to lead it out
from
there, so it wasn't an option for me to lead it out for the win."

is this an stupid statement or what?
so he preferred to finish 10th than 2nd,
or perhaps1st if he was lucky enough.

"Second is no better than fifth." - Papa Roy Stetina, ca. 1980

Andy Coggan

juani said:

"We both hesitated a little bit, and I needed him to lead it out to beat him,"
Horner said on his tactics in the finale. "I just didn't have the fresh legs from
leading out from a k [to go]. He [Chavanel] wanted me to pull through at 800,
700 metres, and I knew if I pulled through, I would have to lead it out from
there, so it wasn't an option for me to lead it out for the win."

is this an stupid statement or what?
so he preferred to finish 10th than 2nd,
or perhaps 1st if he was lucky enough.

It's a classic prisoner's dilemma. Horner knows if he pulls
through, Chavanel can come around (remember even a fresh Horner
is not a good sprinter). So he calls Chavanel's bet, so to speak.
Chavanel can either keep pulling and bet that Horner is too tired
from the daylong break to beat him. Or he can fold, and they
both lose. So, Chavanel also made a decision to give up 2nd place.

That's bike racing.

my point is why he has to give up a stage win?
he might never has this chance again.

Quoted message said:

a) You did a good job driving the break all day and getting good TV time
for the team

i'm not sure what kind of good job you're talking about.

Quoted message said:

b) You didn't stuff up at the finish and let someone else win by being
unprofessional.

why did he decide to go with chavanel in the1st place?
so chavanel will lead him to a win?

actually thanks to chavanel's escapade he was able to be in
position of winning a stage, otherwise he would have been
caught like the other group did way earlier.

Quoted message said:

c) 10th is as good as 2nd in that kind of finish.

i disagree, not when you're that close.

anyway, to me he's a loser, he has no heart.

juani a écrit :

Quoted message said:

anyway, to me he's a loser, he has no heart.

As has been pointed out, Horner is not used to having millions
of relatively ignorant cycling fans misread his tactics. Armstrong
has learned to deal with this, which is why he does stuff like pat
suicide
breakaways when they get caught, like Chavanel on Luz Ardiden in 2003.

-ilan

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
juani a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

anyway, to me he's a loser, he has no heart.

Quoted message said:

As has been pointed out, Horner is not used to having millions
of relatively ignorant cycling fans misread his tactics. Armstrong
has learned to deal with this, which is why he does stuff like pat
suicide breakaways when they get caught, like Chavanel on
Luz Ardiden in 2003.

en francais SVP, je comprends rien.

juani a écrit :

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
juani a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

anyway, to me he's a loser, he has no heart.

Quoted message said:

As has been pointed out, Horner is not used to having millions
of relatively ignorant cycling fans misread his tactics. Armstrong
has learned to deal with this, which is why he does stuff like pat
suicide breakaways when they get caught, like Chavanel on
Luz Ardiden in 2003.

en francais SVP, je comprends rien.

Thanks for confirming what I said.

-ilan

"Andy Coggan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"juani" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:jhXBe.1962994$6l.946022@pd7tw2no...

Quoted message said:

"We both hesitated a little bit, and I needed him to lead it out to beat
him,"
Horner said on his tactics in the finale. "I just didn't have the fresh
legs from
leading out from a k [to go]. He [Chavanel] wanted me to pull through at
800,
700 metres, and I knew if I pulled through, I would have to lead it out
from
there, so it wasn't an option for me to lead it out for the win."

is this an stupid statement or what?
so he preferred to finish 10th than 2nd,
or perhaps1st if he was lucky enough.

"Second is no better than fifth." - Papa Roy Stetina, ca. 1980

Andy Coggan

Well Andy, you have to admit that it's pretty funny who is criticizing
Horner's tactics. He has all kinds of big time racing victories while those
commenting on his moves couldn't even qualify to hold his water bottle.

"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

It's a classic prisoner's dilemma. Horner knows if he pulls
through, Chavanel can come around (remember even a fresh Horner
is not a good sprinter). So he calls Chavanel's bet, so to speak.
Chavanel can either keep pulling and bet that Horner is too tired
from the daylong break to beat him. Or he can fold, and they
both lose. So, Chavanel also made a decision to give up 2nd place.

That's bike racing.

Funny, but about a month ago I watched him play a similar game with Danny
Pate in Philly as Chris Wherry went up the road. Looked to me like he
expected Pate to do all the chasing. At least that time they didn't get
caught from behind, but they didn't catch Wherry either.

NS

On 7/15/05 8:14 AM, in article [email hidden],

Keith said:

...refuses to collaborate with Chavanel in the last km and both lose
out completely. What an idiot.

He got 10th...

Lose out completely?????

Keith said:

...refuses to collaborate with Chavanel in the last km and both lose
out completely. What an idiot.

They weren't going to make it.

But they 100% sealed the deal with those "moves".

What made them look bad is that playing around only made them look
that much more silly.

10th and 16th.

At least if they would have hammered down and gotten caught it would
have looked like a better effort.

D

Quoted message said:

They weren't going to make it.

But they 100% sealed the deal with those "moves".

They would've made it, if they had collaborated the last 2Km.
The sprinters saw the hesitation and furiously attacked.

Quoted message said:

What made them look bad is that playing around only made them look
that much more silly.

Agree. They did all the work for nothing.

Quoted message said:

At least if they would have hammered down and gotten caught it would
have looked like a better effort.

Chavanel made the effort, he waited for Horner.
He did the right thing, he knew it would've been hard
to win by himself.

He was fined 200 Swiss Francs for emptying his water bottle on
Da Cruz who attacked him.

-ilan

Keith a écrit :

Quoted message said:

... What an idiot.

juani said:

anyway, to me he's a loser, he has no heart.

are you kidding me?

Horner recovers from a major injury to win a stage in the tour de
Suisse...and he has no heart? I guess you pedal with a leg fracture all
the time...

He stays away from the peloton for most of the race...only to get
caught in the final meters and he has no heart?

his legs were spent...it was the only smart move to sit on Chavanel's
wheel.

At the US Pro Championships in Philly last year....he went on a
solo-break on the last lap...and got caught before the finish...super
gutsy move. Had even just one rider gone with him on the
break....there would have been an opportunity for him to take the win
along with whomever would've gone with him.

it takes guts to make a move like that...rather than to sit in the main
field and wait for something to happen.

the only losers are [censored] like us who call dedicated professional
athletes losers and spend time debating strategy as if we would have
the presence of mind to make the perfect tactical decision after riding
at max heart rate for a zillion kilometres.

get real.

Joe K.

Quoted message said:

are you kidding me?

no

Quoted message said:

Horner recovers from a major injury to win a stage in the tour de
Suisse...and he has no heart? I guess you pedal with a leg fracture all
the time...

it has nothing to do with tour de suisse.

Quoted message said:

He stays away from the peloton for most of the race...only to get
caught in the final meters and he has no heart?

he didn't get caught, he blew up a possible1st or 2nd place,
because he decided he wouldn't work together with chavanel.
the gap still was big enough with 2Km to go if they would've
worked together.

Quoted message said:

his legs were spent...it was the only smart move to sit on Chavanel's
wheel.

oh really? so it's smart for horner to sit on chavanel's wheel,
but not smart for chavanel to sit on horner's wheel?
actually, chavanel waited for horner to join him after he
passed him because he was smart enough to realize
he wouldn't have survived otherwise.

to me the way he rode tells me he doesn't know
what it means to participate in TdF.

he's a loser because there are riders that dream with
having at least a chance to win, even to place 2nd after
surviving a breakaway.

voila

juani said:

Quoted message said:

He stays away from the peloton for most of the race...only to get
caught in the final meters and he has no heart?

he didn't get caught, he blew up a possible1st or 2nd place,
because he decided he wouldn't work together with chavanel.
the gap still was big enough with 2Km to go if they would've
worked together.

Quoted message said:

his legs were spent...it was the only smart move to sit on Chavanel's
wheel.

oh really? so it's smart for horner to sit on chavanel's wheel,
but not smart for chavanel to sit on horner's wheel?
actually, chavanel waited for horner to join him after he
passed him because he was smart enough to realize
he wouldn't have survived otherwise.

to me the way he rode tells me he doesn't know
what it means to participate in TdF.

he's a loser because there are riders that dream with
having at least a chance to win, even to place 2nd after
surviving a breakaway.

Dumbass -

You really don't understand bike racing.

take care and have a nice day,

K. Gringioni.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

juani said:

Quoted message said:

He stays away from the peloton for most of the race...only to get
caught in the final meters and he has no heart?

he didn't get caught, he blew up a possible1st or 2nd place,
because he decided he wouldn't work together with chavanel.
the gap still was big enough with 2Km to go if they would've
worked together.

Quoted message said:

his legs were spent...it was the only smart move to sit on Chavanel's
wheel.

oh really? so it's smart for horner to sit on chavanel's wheel,
but not smart for chavanel to sit on horner's wheel?
actually, chavanel waited for horner to join him after he
passed him because he was smart enough to realize
he wouldn't have survived otherwise.

to me the way he rode tells me he doesn't know
what it means to participate in TdF.

he's a loser because there are riders that dream with
having at least a chance to win, even to place 2nd after
surviving a breakaway.

Quoted message said:

Dumbass -

hey buddy!

Quoted message said:

You really don't understand bike racing.

maybe you're right. maybe we don't
understand bike racing. i never thought of that.

Quoted message said:

take care and have a nice day,

you too. thanks!

Keith a écrit :

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

... What an idiot.

ilanpi said:

He was fined 200 Swiss Francs for emptying his water bottle on
Da Cruz who attacked him.

He should have stabbed him with his lipstick instead. Perhaps he should
be awarded the pink jersey.