NHL Cancels Season - Disgraceful

There's a hockey strike?

"GWB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There's a hockey strike?

seems so , at least that is what the lady on the Naked News just said (which
is the only newscast I ever watch)

David said:

It is hard to imagine this happening - privileged hockey players

making tons

Quoted message said:

of $$ and deciding their already obscene salaries are not high

enough. I

Quoted message said:

mean, these guys would be pumping gas normally. I feel sorry for the

fans -

Quoted message said:

taking the fans for granted like that - only in America (North

America

Quoted message said:

anyway). It's disgusting.

Who cares...the NHL is not the be all and end all of hockey. There are
MANY other (better IMO) games being played. I'm lucky in that my city
has a QMJHL team that is doing well....Go MOOSE !!

David said:

It is hard to imagine this happening - privileged hockey players

making tons

Quoted message said:

of $$ and deciding their already obscene salaries are not high

enough. I

Quoted message said:

mean, these guys would be pumping gas normally. I feel sorry for the

fans -

Quoted message said:

taking the fans for granted like that - only in America (North

America

Quoted message said:

anyway). It's disgusting.

PS - most fans don't give a [censored]. Most people are simply entertaining
themselves in a different way. The NHL will be gone soon...too bad. The
only people I feel sorry for in this strike are all the 'production'
workers...all the spinoff entertainment enterprises service the
fans...restaurants, team gear, parking lot attendants, TV production
people, consession workers...all the people who are now out of work who
cannot afford to be out of work.

David said:

It is hard to imagine this happening - privileged hockey players making tons
of $$ and deciding their already obscene salaries are not high enough. I
mean, these guys would be pumping gas normally. I feel sorry for the fans -
taking the fans for granted like that - only in America (North America
anyway). It's disgusting.

Yeah, doesn't have anything to do with even wealthier, greedy owners who
wouldn't negotiate at all. Hey, all the players did was cave on their
biggest issue (the salary cap) which gave the owners what they wanted
the most (cost certainty) - and the owners still couldn't make a deal.

"gman99" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David said:

It is hard to imagine this happening - privileged hockey players

making tons

Quoted message said:

of $$ and deciding their already obscene salaries are not high

enough. I

Quoted message said:

mean, these guys would be pumping gas normally. I feel sorry for the

fans -

Quoted message said:

taking the fans for granted like that - only in America (North

America

Quoted message said:

anyway). It's disgusting.

PS - most fans don't give a [censored]. Most people are simply entertaining
themselves in a different way. The NHL will be gone soon...too bad. The
only people I feel sorry for in this strike are all the 'production'
workers...all the spinoff entertainment enterprises service the
fans...restaurants, team gear, parking lot attendants, TV production
people, consession workers...all the people who are now out of work who
cannot afford to be out of work.

Of course, it's an industry in itself. But how can you say the fans don't
care? After all millions of fans watch the games every year - they must
care. I can't see why it is any different from NBA or baseball.

Quoted message said:

Of course, it's an industry in itself. But how can you say the fans

don't

Quoted message said:

care? After all millions of fans watch the games every year - they

must

Quoted message said:

care. I can't see why it is any different from NBA or baseball.

Because there are MANY forms of entertainment. Hockey fans can simply
watch other teams, other leagues...the fans (up here where it counts)
couldn't care less about the squabblings of a bunch of over paid [censored]
(both sides) that take their money for granted. I think most teams are
in for a rude awakening next year...especially if the season doesn't
start. It took years for baseball to recover from the strike...some
teams still haven't recovered to pre-strike attendance and that was 11
years ago.

"Preacher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David said:

It is hard to imagine this happening - privileged hockey players making

tons

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of $$ and deciding their already obscene salaries are not high enough.

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mean, these guys would be pumping gas normally. I feel sorry for the

fans -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

taking the fans for granted like that - only in America (North America
anyway). It's disgusting.

Yeah, doesn't have anything to do with even wealthier, greedy owners who
wouldn't negotiate at all. Hey, all the players did was cave on their
biggest issue (the salary cap) which gave the owners what they wanted
the most (cost certainty) - and the owners still couldn't make a deal.

I dont know about the owners as it seems they are losing money and would
take less of a loss to keep the stadiums closed than to open under normal
conditions

"gman99" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Of course, it's an industry in itself. But how can you say the fans

don't

Quoted message said:

care? After all millions of fans watch the games every year - they

must

Quoted message said:

care. I can't see why it is any different from NBA or baseball.

Because there are MANY forms of entertainment. Hockey fans can simply
watch other teams, other leagues...the fans (up here where it counts)
couldn't care less about the squabblings of a bunch of over paid [censored]
(both sides) that take their money for granted. I think most teams are
in for a rude awakening next year...especially if the season doesn't
start. It took years for baseball to recover from the strike...some
teams still haven't recovered to pre-strike attendance and that was 11
years ago.

Dunno. Fans by definition means they support a particular team - not the
game in general. I blame the players as there must be a limit on what you
can pay these prima donnas to play a game.

Preacher said:

David said:

It is hard to imagine this happening - privileged hockey players

making tons

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of $$ and deciding their already obscene salaries are not high

enough. I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mean, these guys would be pumping gas normally. I feel sorry for

the fans -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

taking the fans for granted like that - only in America (North

America

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

anyway). It's disgusting.

Yeah, doesn't have anything to do with even wealthier, greedy owners

who

Quoted message said:

wouldn't negotiate at all. Hey, all the players did was cave on their
biggest issue (the salary cap) which gave the owners what they wanted
the most (cost certainty) - and the owners still couldn't make a

deal.

No they didn't cave on anything...sure..a cap was accepted, one that
was 25% higher than was asked. One that no NHL team currently pays...

IMO this isn't news. WHO CARES ?? This has to be the most over hyped
story this year...who's fault is it ?? Who cares...I don't care if
another NHL is played...EVER (and I'm a Canadian who likes the game).

David said:

"Preacher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David said:

It is hard to imagine this happening - privileged hockey players making

tons

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of $$ and deciding their already obscene salaries are not high enough.

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mean, these guys would be pumping gas normally. I feel sorry for the

fans -

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

taking the fans for granted like that - only in America (North America
anyway). It's disgusting.

Yeah, doesn't have anything to do with even wealthier, greedy owners who
wouldn't negotiate at all. Hey, all the players did was cave on their
biggest issue (the salary cap) which gave the owners what they wanted
the most (cost certainty) - and the owners still couldn't make a deal.

I dont know about the owners as it seems they are losing money and would
take less of a loss to keep the stadiums closed than to open under normal
conditions

I've heard that story about the owners losing money as well. Did they
ever open the books and show the fans how much money was being lost and
how it was being lost? I haven't followed the saga very closely, but I
know they hadn't when they locked out the players.

Also, the problems of the NHL have at least as much to do with inept
decisionmaking (for instance, some odd expansion sites) and the
inability to negotiate a real television contract as they do with player
costs, which, btw, the owners already control. No one is holding a gun
to their heads to make them pay out ridiculous salaries; they do that
all on their own.

In short, I think the disgust should get spread around. It's hard to
feel sorry for millionaire players who make a living playing a game, but
I don't think it's any easier to feel sorry for multimillionaire owners
who whine about losing money over a game due to their own incompetence.

"Jim Ranieri" wrote

Quoted message said:

"David" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"gman99" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

> Of course, it's an industry in itself. But how can you say the fans
don't
> care? After all millions of fans watch the games every year - they
must
> care. I can't see why it is any different from NBA or baseball.

Because there are MANY forms of entertainment. Hockey fans can simply
watch other teams, other leagues...the fans (up here where it counts)
couldn't care less about the squabblings of a bunch of over paid [censored]
(both sides) that take their money for granted. I think most teams are
in for a rude awakening next year...especially if the season doesn't
start. It took years for baseball to recover from the strike...some
teams still haven't recovered to pre-strike attendance and that was 11
years ago.

Dunno. Fans by definition means they support a particular team - not the
game in general. I blame the players as there must be a limit on what you
can pay these prima donnas to play a game.

I think NHL players are under the mistaken impression that they should be
compensated as well as their NFL, NBA and MLB counterparts. They are going
to come to the realization that they're approximately on the same tier as
WNBA - a niche market with a relatively low number of people that give a
[censored].

Sometimes it sucks when the free market let's you know what you're really
worth.

Oh well, you can't expect the average hocky player to understand basic
economics.

Not picking on these guys or making hockey jokes or anything. But I would
like to hear their explanation on how they could make the numbers work.
Seems like these guys were experiencing mass hysteria or were just general
deluded.

And cancelling an entire season seems like a good way to kill professional
hockey forever. How many fans will forgive them or give up alternative
activities?

In article <[email hidden]>, "David"

Quoted message said:

"gman99" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David said:

It is hard to imagine this happening - privileged hockey players

making tons

Quoted message said:

of $$ and deciding their already obscene salaries are not high

enough. I

Quoted message said:

mean, these guys would be pumping gas normally. I feel sorry for the

fans -

Quoted message said:

taking the fans for granted like that - only in America (North

America

Quoted message said:

anyway). It's disgusting.

PS - most fans don't give a [censored]. Most people are simply entertaining
themselves in a different way. The NHL will be gone soon...too bad. The
only people I feel sorry for in this strike are all the 'production'
workers...all the spinoff entertainment enterprises service the
fans...restaurants, team gear, parking lot attendants, TV production
people, consession workers...all the people who are now out of work who
cannot afford to be out of work.

Of course, it's an industry in itself. But how can you say the fans don't
care? After all millions of fans watch the games every year - they must
care. I can't see why it is any different from NBA or baseball.

It took years for baseball to win back it's fans and baseball is a game
very dear to Americans. I suspect Canadians will embrace the NHL when it
comes back and a few American cities like Boston. But it is going to hurt
a lot of the franchises.

Quoted message said:

Oh well, you can't expect the average hocky player to understand

basic

Quoted message said:

economics.

Not picking on these guys or making hockey jokes or anything. But I

would

Quoted message said:

like to hear their explanation on how they could make the numbers

work.

Quoted message said:

Seems like these guys were experiencing mass hysteria or were just

general

Quoted message said:

deluded.

They trusted their IDIOT union leader...who has NOTHING to lose...I
betcha he's still getting paid through all this. He flinched...the
owners went into this lockout with the intention (IMO) to break the
union. As I understand it, if the lockout continues past November of
this year all contracts are null and void. This will allow the owners
to re-seed their teams with whomever they like. The owners created a
bad situation by paying out the huge contracts...they acknowledge this
and are working to correct the situation.

Quoted message said:

And cancelling an entire season seems like a good way to kill

professional

Quoted message said:

hockey forever. How many fans will forgive them or give up

alternative

Quoted message said:

activities?

Not all pro hockey, European leagues are doing quite well this year. I
beleive the AHL is also doing very well.

"Hobbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:khobman800-1702050754420001@localhost...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "David"

Quoted message said:

"gman99" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David wrote:
> It is hard to imagine this happening - privileged hockey players
making tons
> of $$ and deciding their already obscene salaries are not high
enough. I
> mean, these guys would be pumping gas normally. I feel sorry for the
fans -
> taking the fans for granted like that - only in America (North
America
> anyway). It's disgusting.

PS - most fans don't give a [censored]. Most people are simply entertaining
themselves in a different way. The NHL will be gone soon...too bad.

The

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

only people I feel sorry for in this strike are all the 'production'
workers...all the spinoff entertainment enterprises service the
fans...restaurants, team gear, parking lot attendants, TV production
people, consession workers...all the people who are now out of work

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

cannot afford to be out of work.

Of course, it's an industry in itself. But how can you say the fans

don't

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

care? After all millions of fans watch the games every year - they must
care. I can't see why it is any different from NBA or baseball.

It took years for baseball to win back it's fans and baseball is a game
very dear to Americans. I suspect Canadians will embrace the NHL when it
comes back and a few American cities like Boston. But it is going to hurt
a lot of the franchises.

No one wins - can you imagine how long it will take the players to make up
their loss of salary for one season? Average salary for NHL player is $1.8
million - I bet everyone of them would play for $100,000 (plus travel
expenses) if the alternative is no pay at all. (By the way baseball average
is not much higher - $2.3 million)

In article <[email hidden]>, "Lee Michaels"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Oh well, you can't expect the average hocky player to understand basic
economics.

Not picking on these guys or making hockey jokes or anything. But I would
like to hear their explanation on how they could make the numbers work.
Seems like these guys were experiencing mass hysteria or were just general
deluded.

And cancelling an entire season seems like a good way to kill professional
hockey forever. How many fans will forgive them or give up alternative
activities?

Won't kill pro hockey, but may kill the NHL.

To be honest I have never seen 'negotiations' where there is such poor
communication. Even with the season cancelled all the union rep, Goodenow,
did was blame Bettman and say he owes everyone an apology. No interest in
addressing the situation, just trying to place blame.

Stupid people. I see stupid people. They are everywhere. And they don't even...

Oh wait. been done. oh well...

"Preacher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David said:

"Preacher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David <[email hidden]> wrote:

> It is hard to imagine this happening - privileged hockey players

making

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

tons

Quoted message said:

> of $$ and deciding their already obscene salaries are not high

enough.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I

Quoted message said:

> mean, these guys would be pumping gas normally. I feel sorry for the

fans -

Quoted message said:

> taking the fans for granted like that - only in America (North

America

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> anyway). It's disgusting.

Yeah, doesn't have anything to do with even wealthier, greedy owners

who

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

wouldn't negotiate at all. Hey, all the players did was cave on their
biggest issue (the salary cap) which gave the owners what they wanted
the most (cost certainty) - and the owners still couldn't make a deal.

I dont know about the owners as it seems they are losing money and would
take less of a loss to keep the stadiums closed than to open under

normal

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

conditions

I've heard that story about the owners losing money as well. Did they
ever open the books and show the fans how much money was being lost and
how it was being lost? I haven't followed the saga very closely, but I
know they hadn't when they locked out the players.

Also, the problems of the NHL have at least as much to do with inept
decisionmaking (for instance, some odd expansion sites) and the
inability to negotiate a real television contract as they do with player
costs, which, btw, the owners already control. No one is holding a gun
to their heads to make them pay out ridiculous salaries; they do that
all on their own.

In short, I think the disgust should get spread around. It's hard to
feel sorry for millionaire players who make a living playing a game, but
I don't think it's any easier to feel sorry for multimillionaire owners
who whine about losing money over a game due to their own incompetence.

No matter what mistakes were made with inept decisionmaking - that's the way
it goes and a lot of this is the roll of the dice - but hard headed
attitudes by the players union is something that could have been avoided. If
it is how it has been presented on the news, the owners are losing money
and simply can't be viable at the salaries demanded by the players union. So
the players overreached and they become the primary victims (along with the
fans and the whole industry spawned by the NHL)

"Hobbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:khobman800-1702050754420001@localhost...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, "David"

Quoted message said:

"gman99" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

David wrote:
> It is hard to imagine this happening - privileged hockey players
making tons
> of $$ and deciding their already obscene salaries are not high
enough. I
> mean, these guys would be pumping gas normally. I feel sorry for the
fans -
> taking the fans for granted like that - only in America (North
America
> anyway). It's disgusting.

PS - most fans don't give a [censored]. Most people are simply entertaining
themselves in a different way. The NHL will be gone soon...too bad. The
only people I feel sorry for in this strike are all the 'production'
workers...all the spinoff entertainment enterprises service the
fans...restaurants, team gear, parking lot attendants, TV production
people, consession workers...all the people who are now out of work who
cannot afford to be out of work.

Of course, it's an industry in itself. But how can you say the fans don't
care? After all millions of fans watch the games every year - they must
care. I can't see why it is any different from NBA or baseball.

It took years for baseball to win back it's fans and baseball is a game

Maybe Hockey will learn from Baseball though and the players will come back all
juiced up and hitting more HR. That'll bring the fans back.
ps

David said:

"Preacher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've heard that story about the owners losing money as well. Did they
ever open the books and show the fans how much money was being lost and
how it was being lost? I haven't followed the saga very closely, but I
know they hadn't when they locked out the players.

Also, the problems of the NHL have at least as much to do with inept
decisionmaking (for instance, some odd expansion sites) and the
inability to negotiate a real television contract as they do with player
costs, which, btw, the owners already control. No one is holding a gun
to their heads to make them pay out ridiculous salaries; they do that
all on their own.

In short, I think the disgust should get spread around. It's hard to
feel sorry for millionaire players who make a living playing a game, but
I don't think it's any easier to feel sorry for multimillionaire owners
who whine about losing money over a game due to their own incompetence.

No matter what mistakes were made with inept decisionmaking - that's the way
it goes and a lot of this is the roll of the dice - but hard headed
attitudes by the players union is something that could have been avoided. If
it is how it has been presented on the news, the owners are losing money
and simply can't be viable at the salaries demanded by the players union. So
the players overreached and they become the primary victims (along with the
fans and the whole industry spawned by the NHL)

So when the owners are stupid, that's just the way it goes, but when the
players are stupid, they should have made better decisions? This is just
asinine. Don't you think there's enough blame to go around? Or do you
really think this is really only about the players' greed?

A pox on both of their houses.