Nexus 8 -Speed Bicycles

"George Goetz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I know they're not popular here in the USA but I can't
believe how hard

they

Quoted message said:

are to find.

Specifically looking for something like the "Avenue
Broadway 8-speed", danish I believe, or the Trek 7400.

Just wanted to put in my $.02 about the Shimano Nexus rear
hub. I had a brand new 7-speed Nexus rear hub on my 2003 Van
Dessel Super Fly last season. The rear hub really seemed to
be eating quite a lot of pedaling energy. It always felt
like I was pedaling uphill or something. I was shocked to
find that there was no 1:1 ratio (with maximal energy
efficiency); but in fact, the mid-range gears were actually
*less* energy efficient (about 85%) than the highest and
lowest gears (around 90%). Since most of us ride
predominantly in the mid-range gears, that was a problem.
And it was noticeable. That's not to mention the fact that
the Nexus hub is quite hefty.

Bottom line: I got ride of the Van Dessel, and bought a city
bike/cyclocross frame from NYCBikes.com (nice guys! give 'em
a try). I built 'er up with a 9 / 27-speed Shimano Deore
drivetrain, laced up some matching black-painted Mavic Open
Pro rims, and attached Zefal fenders for all-weather city
riding. My cyclocross/hybrid/citybike is *much* faster than
the Van Dessel was - which I attribute primarily to the more
efficient derailleur-based drivetrain. The speed increase is
noticeable. The new city bike is also a couple of pounds
lighter, with lighter, faster wheels and cyclocross knobbies
for excellent off-road handling. The cost, including all new
9-speed components and an Interloc straight-blade cyclocross
fork: under $400 total.

Quoted message said:

I'm not a fan of the Bianchi Milano.

It looks nice from some angles, and not from others. Looks
great in Bianchi Celeste green.

Quoted message said:

Does anyone know where I could get one in the US?

Sorry, no.

Quoted message said:

Check out this baby.

bikebuster.com110011.jpgOpen ↗

Sweet looking bike!

Rocketman

Have you looked into finding a frame you like, and seeing
how much a bike shop would charge to build it into a Nexus
8 bike? Or perhaps you have the tools and know how to try
it yourself?

As far as US available Nexus 8 models go, if you don't like
the Milano, you probably would also not like the Electra
Townie, Dahon Helios XL (folder), or the Swift Folder. I
think that the US idea of a Nexus 8 bike is not going to be
as sporty as the picture you showed.

"George Goetz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I know they're not popular here in the USA but I can't
believe how hard they are to find.

Specifically looking for something like the "Avenue
Broadway 8-speed", danish I believe, or the Trek 7400.

I'm not a fan of the Bianchi Milano.

Does anyone know where I could get one in the US?

Check out this baby.

bikebuster.com110011.jpgOpen ↗

Thanks, George

Rocketman said:

Just wanted to put in my $.02 about the Shimano Nexus rear
hub. I had a brand new 7-speed Nexus rear hub on my 2003
Van Dessel Super Fly last season. The rear hub really
seemed to be eating quite a lot of pedaling energy. It
always felt like I was pedaling uphill or something.

The SRAM/Sachs Spectro 7 is noticeably freer-running. And
the middle gear is direct-drive.

FWIW, I feel like whatever hypothetical efficiency one gains
by using a derailleur system is as often as not squandered
by poor chainline and draggy bends around the pulleys. (To
say nothing of dumping the chain every so often.)

Chalo Colina

Chalo said:

Rocketman said:

Just wanted to put in my $.02 about the Shimano Nexus
rear hub. I had a brand new 7-speed Nexus rear hub on my
2003 Van Dessel Super Fly last season. The rear hub
really seemed to be eating quite a lot of pedaling
energy. It always felt like I was pedaling uphill or
something.

The SRAM/Sachs Spectro 7 is noticeably freer-running. And
the middle gear is direct-drive.

FWIW, I feel like whatever hypothetical efficiency one
gains by using a derailleur system is as often as not
squandered by poor chainline and draggy bends around
the pulleys. (To say nothing of dumping the chain every
so often.)

Efficiencies for various types of drivetrains have been
measured and published, and the derailer setup still
comes out on top. Unfortunately, I can't find the URLs at
the moment.

Cross-chained and small-small gear combos are least
efficient, worse than some internal gear hubs'. I was
surprised to see how poor a standard MTB drivetrain
performed in certain gear combinations -- less than 90%
efficiency. But the best combinations are right up there at
97-98%, which hub gears can't touch.

Matt O.

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Efficiencies for various types of drivetrains have been
measured and published, and the derailer setup still
comes out on top. Unfortunately, I can't find the URLs at
the moment.

Cross-chained and small-small gear combos are least
efficient, worse than some internal gear hubs'. I was
surprised to see how poor a standard MTB drivetrain
performed in certain gear combinations -- less than 90%
efficiency. But the best combinations are right up there
at 97-98%, which hub gears can't touch.

Perhaps this one? ihpva.orgHP52.pdfOpen ↗

RE/

Quoted message said:

The SRAM/Sachs Spectro 7 is noticeably freer-running. And
the middle gear is direct-drive.

Any feeling for how Roloff's hub compares?
--
PeteCresswell

[email hidden] (papercut) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Efficiencies for various types of drivetrains have been
measured and published, and the derailer setup still
comes out on top. Unfortunately, I can't find the URLs
at the moment.

Cross-chained and small-small gear combos are least
efficient, worse than some internal gear hubs'. I was
surprised to see how poor a standard MTB drivetrain
performed in certain gear combinations -- less than 90%
efficiency. But the best combinations are right up there
at 97-98%, which hub gears can't touch.

Perhaps this one? ihpva.orgHP52.pdfOpen ↗

There's also a follow-up to that article in Human Power #55,
comparing derailleur systems and the Rohloff hub.
Recommended reading for anyone wanting to *really* measure
drivetrain efficiencies.

Jeff

Thanks everyone, I'm going to keep looking. The Cannondale
Street Roloff looks great too.

"(Pete Cresswell)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

RE/

Quoted message said:

The SRAM/Sachs Spectro 7 is noticeably freer-running. And
the middle gear is direct-drive.

Any feeling for how Roloff's hub compares?
--
PeteCresswell

RE/

Quoted message said:

Thanks everyone, I'm going to keep looking. The Cannondale
Street Roloff looks great too.

Just be aware that there's nothing about the Rohloff hub
that limits it to being used on any particular make/model of
bike except for the axle width (135mm MTB standard...).

I've got one on my hardtail, one on my Ellsworth Isis
FS...and used to have one on my Cannondale Jekyll when I had
it.
--
PeteCresswell

Pete Cresswell said:

Chalo said:

The SRAM/Sachs Spectro 7 is noticeably freer-running. And
the middle gear is direct-drive.

Any feeling for how Roloff's hub compares?

It's more like the Sachs than like the Shimano in that
regard. Just fiddling with the hub in my hands, my
impression is that it's got more internal drag than the
Spectro, but on the street it's very hard to tell. The
Rohloff makes more noise and thus makes me feel like it's
draggier, but that could well be a misconception.

The Shimano Nexus 7 is pretty quiet, has a decent brake,
shifts quickly and reliably, stashes all its shifting
hardware inboard of the dropouts, and dissipates a lot of
energy. I doubt that the Nexus 8 is too different, but I've
never seen one so I can't say.

Chalo Colina

(Pete Cresswell) said:

Just be aware that there's nothing about the Rohloff hub
that limits it to being used on any particular make/model
of bike except for the axle width (135mm MTB standard...).

Well, yes...but chain tensioners-- even Rohloff's-- are
cheesy. The hub is a better match for horizontal or
adjustable dropouts, or an eccentric BB. That really cuts
down on the selection of frames.

I mean, why use a gearhub in a system that can dump the
chain just like a derailleur bike?

Chalo Colina

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Chalo) said:

(Pete Cresswell) said:

Just be aware that there's nothing about the Rohloff hub
that limits it to being used on any particular
make/model of bike except for the axle width (135mm MTB
standard...).

Well, yes...but chain tensioners-- even Rohloff's-- are
cheesy. The hub is a better match for horizontal or
adjustable dropouts, or an eccentric BB. That really cuts
down on the selection of frames.

I mean, why use a gearhub in a system that can dump the
chain just like a derailleur bike?

Chalo Colina

Hey Chalo, you'll like my latest thought-experiment: a hub-
geared BMX with a tall seat, flat or drop bars, and high-
pressure tires. It will be the world's lousiest folding bike
(doesn't fold, y'see), or a great way of gaming airline bike-
handling rules.

Thinking, thinking...
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden]
sfu.cawiredcolaOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio
Mazzoleni Fan Club

Ryan Cousineau said:

Hey Chalo, you'll like my latest thought-experiment: a hub-
geared BMX with a tall seat, flat or drop bars, and high-
pressure tires. It will be the world's lousiest folding
bike (doesn't fold, y'see), or a great way of gaming
airline bike-handling rules.

That's almost the bike I've been building for one of my co-
workers. He aimed for "world's lightest BMX bike" but
eventually came to rest on "possibly world's most expensive
BMX bike".

It's an aluminum monocoque BMX race frame carefully jacked
open and milled to accept a SRAM 5-speed hub with drum
brake. Both hubs are laced to 20" Velocity Deep-Vs with
110psi slicks. Carbon fork, aluminum handlebars, Race Face
Next LP cranks, Speedplay pedals. Long
31.6mm seatpost. Projected complete weight: 20 pounds.

The front end of a 20" bike is so short, drop bars would be
a sick joke. Flat bars or cowhorns would give a time-
trial/pursuit kind of riding position.

Certainly this bike would be mind-bogglingly easier to
travel with than any of my own bikes.

Chalo Colina

RE/

Quoted message said:

I mean, why use a gearhub in a system that can dump the
chain just like a derailleur bike?

My FS dumped the chain a few times, but that was a good year
ago before I put a bash ring where the outside ring would
go. No dumps since.
--
PeteCresswell

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Chalo) said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

Hey Chalo, you'll like my latest thought-experiment: a
hub-geared BMX with a tall seat, flat or drop bars, and
high-pressure tires. It will be the world's lousiest
folding bike (doesn't fold, y'see), or a great way of
gaming airline bike-handling rules.

That's almost the bike I've been building for one of my
co-workers. He aimed for "world's lightest BMX bike" but
eventually came to rest on "possibly world's most
expensive BMX bike".

It's an aluminum monocoque BMX race frame carefully jacked
open and milled to accept a SRAM 5-speed hub with drum
brake. Both hubs are laced to 20" Velocity Deep-Vs with
110psi slicks. Carbon fork, aluminum handlebars, Race Face
Next LP cranks, Speedplay pedals. Long
31.6mm seatpost. Projected complete weight: 20 pounds.

Weird! Wonderful! Any likely bugbears?

Why did you decide on the 5-speed hub, as opposed to the 7?
Or, for that matter the Rohloff, since that would get you
closer to your new goal 🙂.

I'll probably be starting out with a steel frame from the
attic, so I don't anticipate as many issues with frame
spreading and such. I'm not obsessed about the weight or
aerodynamics; I want a bike that is sort of a fast-as-
possible cheap-and-transportable bike, or maybe a death-
metal Moulton. Hm. Since I'm going to an island with a lot
of stair steps, maybe I should get a suspension fork and
really go to town.

Quoted message said:

The front end of a 20" bike is so short, drop bars would
be a sick joke. Flat bars or cowhorns would give a time-
trial/pursuit kind of riding position.

Interesting thoughts. I'm thinking a flat bar (maybe with my
bolt-on aero bars brought along for extra sickness) would be
the way to go. I suppose there's no real reason to not use
the stock BMX-style handlebars, is there? Besides looks?

Quoted message said:

Certainly this bike would be mind-bogglingly easier to
travel with than any of my own bikes.

Seems to me that a BMX or cruiser might work for your
travelling needs. I bet even a Co-Motion-style traveling
road/mtb frame would be awfully big in your sizes. Clearly a
case where compact geometry would be functional 🙂.

I hope you'll post pictures of this project when you're
done. Sounds like a case of wretched excess at its finest.
This is a really, really admirable project. I think you
should send some shots to a BMX magazine or two when you've
finished. Or maybe just Chunk 666.

--
Ryan Cousineau, [email hidden]
sfu.cawiredcolaOpen ↗ President, Fabrizio
Mazzoleni Fan Club

In article
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Pete Cresswell said:

Chalo said:

The SRAM/Sachs Spectro 7 is noticeably freer-running.
And the middle gear is direct-drive.

Any feeling for how Roloff's hub compares?

It's more like the Sachs than like the Shimano in that
regard. Just fiddling with the hub in my hands, my
impression is that it's got more internal drag than the
Spectro, but on the street it's very hard to tell. The
Rohloff makes more noise and thus makes me feel like it's
draggier, but that could well be a misconception.

The Shimano Nexus 7 is pretty quiet, has a decent brake,
shifts quickly and reliably, stashes all its shifting
hardware inboard of the dropouts, and dissipates a lot of
energy. I doubt that the Nexus 8 is too different, but I've
never seen one so I can't say.

The subject line says Nexus 8, but everyone is talking about
the Nexus 7. Has anyone tried the new Nexus 8? It is
supposed to be more efficient than the Nexus 7.
------------
Alex

Ryan Cousineau said:

(Chalo) said:

It's an aluminum monocoque BMX race frame carefully
jacked open and milled to accept a SRAM 5-speed hub with
drum brake. Both hubs are laced to 20" Velocity Deep-Vs
with 110psi slicks. Carbon fork, aluminum handlebars,
Race Face Next LP cranks, Speedplay pedals. Long
31.6mm seatpost. Projected complete weight: 20 pounds.

Why did you decide on the 5-speed hub, as opposed to the
7? Or, for that matter the Rohloff, since that would get
you closer to your new goal 🙂.

It looked likelier to be able to spread the stays from 110mm
to 126mm than to 135mm. I was rooting for a coaster brake
model which would have made it 122mm, but my pal liked the
idea of a drum. Heck, *I* like a drum on a 20" wheel!

The machining part of the operation was to remove a wall
surrounding the dropout slot, in order to provide clearance
for the shifter clickbox.

Quoted message said:

I want a bike that is sort of a fast-as-possible cheap-and-
transportable bike, or maybe a death-metal Moulton.
Hm. Since I'm going to an island with a lot of stair
steps, maybe I should get a suspension fork and really
go to town.

I highly recommend the Primo Comet tire: file treaded, rated
at 110psi, and available in 1.35, 1.95, and 2.1 nominal
widths. The big one compensates pretty well for the small
wheel diameter.

Suspension fork? Sounds like a request for your nearest bike
recycler. There are not many new 20" suspension forks that
outclass the ones found on the nicer major-brand kid-sized
MTBs. AFAIK White Brothers are the only outfit to offer a
sophisticated 20" suspension fork, which is pricey and not
likely to suit your application better than a steel-tubed
spring/elastomer job.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The front end of a 20" bike is so short, drop bars would
be a sick joke. Flat bars or cowhorns would give a time-
trial/pursuit kind of riding position.

Interesting thoughts. I'm thinking a flat bar (maybe with
my bolt-on aero bars brought along for extra sickness)
would be the way to go. I suppose there's no real reason
to not use the stock BMX-style handlebars, is there?
Besides looks?

Not really. They are stiffer and stronger than cantilevered
bars, but much heavier. Typically you'll get 7" of rise from
BMX bars but none from the stem, whereas you could use flat
bars and MTB stem for less rise but more reach options.

Chalo Colina

Alex Rodriguez said:

The subject line says Nexus 8, but everyone is talking
about the Nexus 7. Has anyone tried the new Nexus 8? It is
supposed to be more efficient than the Nexus 7.

Well, Biopace was supposed to be more efficient than
round rings....

The Nexus 8 actually has a direct-drive gear, right above
the middle of the range where it could prove very useful.
Even if the gears and bearings are what we have come to
expect from Shimano Nexus equipment, that one change could
be of benefit.

Chalo Colina