Newbie: where 2 start?

"Richard Jolly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Please help, any advice would be most helpful

My wife and I have 4 children, we would like to start cycling in some pre-organised routes. We
have little equipment at present and would welcome advice what are the key purchases (obviously to
start with the cycles themselves). I was thinking about a combination of new and second hand
bikes, due to the changing sizes of the children (Girls, BTW) . What makes (of old and new) would
you recommend for a scenario of beginner family and short country cycling?

I would like to aim for semi-tarmaced routes and some of the forestry commision pre-done routes.

In terms of transportation, we have a ford galaxy with a tow bar, so any advice on the
permutations of transporting the bikes would also be invaluable.

Any other equipment advice, that you would consider essential purchases please feel free to advise
- shops tend to try and sell you everything!

Obviously the scenario above would be costly, suggestions of costs (try and keep it on the lower
side!) would be beneficial.

Many Thanks

Richard Jolly

Richard,

All you need to cycle is a bike.

There is a massive untapped resource out there of second-hand bikes, usually locatable in the local
press. As you have 4 daughters who are presumably in the process of growing up it would be worth
using 2nd hand there. It would also be useful you and your wife going 2nd hand, at least initially
just to see 1. if you get along with it and 2. what kind of riding you gravitate to. Saving the new
bikes for when you know what you are doing and as a special treat, somewhere down the line, is a
good thing to do. Next is clothing / protective gear. I believe, and this may be contradicted, that
being seen is the single most useful factor in staying alive on the roads, therefore a bit of
reflective (for when it's dark) and fluorescent (for daylight hours) is very useful. Helmet and
gloves are not obligatory yet. I do wear them but it is down to personal choice and questionable as
to whether or not they actually provide any personal protection......

HTH

Dave.

"Richard Jolly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My wife and I have 4 children, we would like to start cycling in some pre-organised routes. We
have little equipment at present and would welcome advice what are the key purchases (obviously to
start with the cycles themselves). I was thinking about a combination of new and second hand
bikes, due to the changing sizes of the children (Girls, BTW) . What makes (of old and new) would
you recommend for a scenario of beginner family and short country cycling?

Phew! The only advice I can give is that if budget permits spend at least £250 on the adult bikes,
much below that and you get heavy, inferior specced bikes that may not encourage you to cycle. DO
NOT buy anything with full suspension or disc brakes unless you are spending £600 upwards, they are
not neccessary and will be very poor quality at the cheaper end. Go to what appears to be a decent
bike shop, avoid cheap, heavy supermarket specials. Buy padded shorts. Don't assume, at least for
males, that a big squishy saddle equates to comfort :-)

Quoted message said:

In terms of transportation, we have a ford galaxy with a tow bar, so any advice on the
permutations of transporting the bikes would also be invaluable.

roofbox.co.ukroofbox.co.ukOpen ↗ are a respected source. Look into the Pendle tow bar carrier.

Quoted message said:

Any other equipment advice, that you would consider essential purchases please feel free to advise
- shops tend to try and sell you everything!

A shop may try and tell you helmets are essential. They're not but if you think you'll feel happier
wearing them then try on a good selection, the right one should be quite comfortable.

Do carry at least one spare inner tube, a pump, puncture repair outfit, simple tools and maybe a
small first aid kit. Do take plenty to drink and snack bars to taste, not stuff that will melt or
fall apart in a bike bag.

Enjoy yourselves, Pete

Greetings

If you are mechanically competent and can sort out a good buy from a duffer, seriously consider
going secondhand bike route for all to start off with. If not - try to go new, possibly, as in
theory at least, a new bike shouldn't have components breaking or wearing out as soon as you
get the bike.

If you are doing light off-road, gentle forest trails - you don't need full suspension bikes.
Indeed, I'd say avoid cheap suspension bikes like the plague (less than several hundred squids
counts as cheap in this department) as they are more trouble than they are worth.

Consider a hybrid style of bike - one which is bigger than a standard MTB, but had chunkier tyres
than a "road bike" That should do road work and gentle off-road trails/forest tracks type of thing.

Kids - they can grow so quick, perhpas the less spent the better. Then, if they decide they don't
like it, it's not vast amounts of spondooliks wasted, and if they do like it, again, it's not a lot
of money wasted when they outgrow the bike and need to move on to something bigger/better.

Examples - I have a now old Raleigh Pioneer Trail hybrid - bought as new 14 years ago, when my son
was a tot and I used to cycle miles with him in a rear mounted child seat. 21 speed gears,
semi-knobbly tyres - it suited me well for what I needed, wasn't too heavy, and thanks to having a
competent personal bike mechanic (husband) even now it is a good bike in good nick and I still use
it occasionally to pootle to the shops in. My main bike now is a lightweight tourer - a Bianchi San
Remo, which I *love* and find a joy to ride on road - which is my preferred cycling. My son has a
nice Peugeot racer with carbon forks and light wheels he uses for racing and he has a basic
(non-suspension) mountain bike he uses to cycle to school & back. He prefers the racing bike by far.

Other purchases - padded cycling shorts. I *never* get on my bike without wearing a pair - even if
they are under long leggings. They will increase your comfort when cycling. Also - being visible
when on-road especially will contribute to personal safety. Seriously consider getting some
reflectives/fluorescents to wear (fluorescents for day, reflectives for night). The other thing is
lights - *essential* if you happen to be out in fading light/dark. A bell is cheap and pleasant if
you are on shared trails with pedestrians (but not always effective - peds can be remarkably *deaf*
to cyclists). Another purchase to consider is helmets all round. Personally I am pro-helmet wearing
but also consider it to be your decision as to whether you wear one or not. Having been bonked on
the head whilst wearing one, I'm glad I was wearing one - husband too, when he accidentally came off
his bike and the helmet took the scraping along the tarmac. I never cycle without one and I find it
no hassle to wear - nor do husband and son when they cycle - we all wear them.

Bike carriers for cars - go to www.roofbox.co.uk I prefer towbar mounted carriers compared to the
ones that hang off the back of the car. Having driven to Italy & back, & to Germany & back with
three bikes mounted this way, I've not had a problem - for which I am grateful!

Hope my ramblings help a little.

Wishing you happy pedalling

Cheers, helen s

~~~~~~~~~~
This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
h$**$*$el$**e$n$**$d$**$o$*$t**$$s$**$im$mo$ns*@a$**o$l.c$$*o$*m*$ by getting rid of the
overdependence on money and fame
~~~~~~~~~~

Following on from Richard Jolly's message. . .

Quoted message said:

Please help, any advice would be most helpful

There are plenty of real cyclists (as opposed to cyber-cyclists here) who are keen to help you.
While there is lots of advice available in cyberland we can't home in on what really matters for you
and what particular thing might make it a bit of a change of lifestyle thing rather than bikes
taking up all that space in the shed.

If you say here where you live - you never know - there just might be somebody local to you who can
do a 'laying on of hands'.

PS Don't be afraid to explore for yourselves. Your ideas of an afternoon out may be different
to others.

--
PETER FOX Not the same since statuette business went bust

Witham Cycling Campaign www.eminent.demon.co.uk/wcc.htm East Anglian Pub cycle rides
www.eminent.demon.co.uk/rides

Richard Jolly said:

Thanks for all your responses.

I suppose I'm just trying to understand the "technologies" and what is really important and what's
less so.

Update:

My initial focus is a ? new/2nd hand bike for my wife. We had a look in an independant cycle shop
stocking Raleigh, Saracens, Barracuda (and my wife had Dawes many years ago - stolen!!, are they
still a realistic choice?)

I've had good saracens, I know folks who have had bad. Raleigh still produce OK bikes as far as I
know, never ridden a 'cuda.

Quoted message said:

Looked in a little more detail at "hybrid" cycles. A few more questions arose from features
discussed in shop:

Wheel's: Mountain style or Town/street style

On a hybrid for your earlier suggested riding, I'd say a narrowish mountain style. Rugged enough
that you needn't be scared of potholes.

Quoted message said:

Tyres: Thin or Fat knobbly (latter sort appear to be generic with mountian style wheel)

Thin ones make for easy riding, but little use off tarmac. fat knobblies are good for off road, but
harder work on the tarmac. I have a pair of these
wiggle.co.ukspecialized%20xroads%20ex%20tyre.jpgOpen ↗ on my MTB when I'm doing more
tarmac than not. The profile and central strip are very good for tarmac, low rolling resistance, but
the knobbles round the edge make off roading possibly.

Quoted message said:

Frame: Aluminium (seems dear) or Steel

Steel can in fact be dearer than alu depending on the range. In your case it doesn't really matter,
although the lightness of Alu will be more encouraging to keep riding than a (probably) heavier
steel frame.

Quoted message said:

Suspension: Forgive my basic unjargonistic descriptions: There appears 3 types:

1. The Large car-like suspension on lower frame (very very dear, and guessing from earlier posts
to be avoided)

Rear suspension. Only dear if it's reasonable quality and upwards. You can get rear sus bikes dirt
cheap - but you get less than you pay for. Avoid on bikes less than £600 rrp

Quoted message said:

2. Some suspension under seat

Seat stems - the are available as aftermarket add-ons. Some people love em, others don't.

Quoted message said:

3. Some suspension on 2 front forks

Front suspension. Again, the more you spend, the better you get. Adds weight to bike, but can make a
difference on your wrists!

Quoted message said:

In relation to the last (only realistic options) suspensions on seat and front, which types are
preferable (some models just have seat suspension, others front type only, others with both)

see above. I'd say neither are a "must" have for your intended riding. If you see a good deal with
reasonable front sus, then consider it a bonus. Pace, Marzocchi, Manitou, RockShox are the main
brands I can think of. RST are a lesser brand iirc but maybe acceptable.

Quoted message said:

We actually saw the Raleigh P range (?replaced old pioneer range). Seemed OK?

Any other suggestions in this hybrid area, or comments on the suppliers/models described above.

Pro's and Con's of the features given above would be invaluable to help look at other future
makes, or assess 2nd hand models.

Hope that helps a bit - although I am by no means an expert 🙂

--
Dnc

(Richard Jolly) said:

My wife and I have 4 children, we would like to start cycling in some pre-organised routes.

How old are the small people?

Quoted message said:

We have little equipment at present and would welcome advice what are the key purchases (obviously
to start with the cycles themselves).

Last year's models and lightly used second-hand are the best vaule IME, but you can't go far wrong
with Dawes.

Quoted message said:

I would like to aim for semi-tarmaced routes and some of the forestry commision pre-done routes.

In which case I would go for non-suspension mountain bikes like the Dawes Kokomo, Saratoga or
Chilliwack. For the adults maybe consider front sus, but this is very much a nice-to-have and cheap
front sus is not usually terribly good.

Fit non-gnarly tyres like the Panaracer Pasela. Tyre upgrades are usually free on new bikes.

Quoted message said:

In terms of transportation, we have a ford galaxy with a tow bar, so any advice on the permutations
of transporting the bikes would also be invaluable.

Two adults plus four children equals Pendle six-bike trailer :-)

Quoted message said:

Any other equipment advice, that you would consider essential purchases please feel free to advise
- shops tend to try and sell you everything!

Pumps, spare tubes, puncture kits, tyre levers, a set of Allen keys, a chain tool and some spare
links, and a copy of something like Haynes bicycle sbook for light reading. Practice changing tyres
in the back garden before heading out - it's better to learn when the pressure is off ;-)

Water bottles and cages are important, and at least one computer to help with map reading and such.
One or two bells for the shared-use tracks, and a mirror might be an idea to keep an eye on the
crocodile.

Quoted message said:

Obviously the scenario above would be costly, suggestions of costs (try and keep it on the lower
side!) would be beneficial.

Kokomo is 175 English pounds, there is also a 24" version. edinburghbicycle.comedinburghbicycle.comOpen ↗ also do a
range of very competitively priced high quality machines.

And every issue of the CTC magazine has a load of classified ads for second-hand bikes. Better to
buy second-hand kids bikes from cyclists rather than people who buy bikes at Halfords - personal
opinion based entirely on prejudice ;-) We spent more on childrens' bikes than most poeple we know,
and they have fewer "toys" (e.g. suspension) - they are also lighter and more robust.

Before buying a helmet read cyclehelmets.orgcyclehelmets.orgOpen ↗ - it's fine to wear one as long as you are
absolutely convinced it won't stop you dying if you crash.

Please keep up posted!

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ New!
Improved!! Now with added extra Demon!

"Richard Jolly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks for all your responses.

I suppose I'm just trying to understand the "technologies" and what is really important and what's
less so.

Update:

My initial focus is a ? new/2nd hand bike for my wife. We had a look in an independant cycle shop
stocking Raleigh, Saracens, Barracuda (and my wife had Dawes many years ago - stolen!!, are they
still a realistic choice?)

Dawes are still pretty good.

After fitting for size, I'd look at all-up weight (some things are very heavy) and price.

Quoted message said:

Looked in a little more detail at "hybrid" cycles. A few more questions arose from features
discussed in shop:

Wheel's: Mountain style or Town/street style

Not much in it really. For smaller people (say under 5'2", there is a good reason to go for the
slightly smaller MTB wheel diameter.

Quoted message said:

Tyres: Thin or Fat knobbly (latter sort appear to be generic with mountian style wheel)

Fat & knobbly = good off road, slow on-road. Very knobbly sometimes have odd behaviour cornering
on tarmac.

Thin & smooth = fast on road.

I'd look for something around 32mm wide with a modest tread depth given what you said earlier.

Quoted message said:

Frame: Aluminium (seems dear) or Steel

Not a lot to choose at the price you mention. Just check that all-up weight.

Quoted message said:

Suspension: Forgive my basic unjargonistic descriptions: There appears 3 types:

1. The Large car-like suspension on lower frame (very very dear, and guessing from earlier posts
to be avoided)

Correct, avoid at low prices. Can be superb on "proper" off road machines costing £600 upwards.

Quoted message said:

2. Some suspension under seat

Some love it, some loath it. If you ride very upright (near vertical back) it may help with road
lumps and bumps. Or a saddle with springs in it might do just as well.

Quoted message said:

3. Some suspension on 2 front forks

Mixed blessing. Adds weight and complexity. On some cheap bikes I've seen it doesn't seem to do much
for shock absorbing either. But, if your weight lines up with its range and not too heavy it does
remove some road vibrarion.

Personally, I'd skip it and get a lighter bike unless planning to ride exclusively off-road.

Quoted message said:

We actually saw the Raleigh P range (?replaced old pioneer range). Seemed OK?

No idea.

Quoted message said:

Any other suggestions in this hybrid area, or comments on the suppliers/models described above.

In addition to those listed above, Specialized and Trek offer some models at your price range.
Ridgeback seem to be very good value for money.

regards,

Nigel

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

(Richard Jolly) said:

My wife and I have 4 children, we would like to start cycling in some pre-organised routes.

How old are the small people?

Quoted message said:

We have little equipment at present and would welcome advice what are the key purchases
(obviously to start with the cycles themselves).

Last year's models and lightly used second-hand are the best vaule IME, but you can't go far wrong
with Dawes.

Quoted message said:

I would like to aim for semi-tarmaced routes and some of the forestry commision pre-done routes.

In which case I would go for non-suspension mountain bikes like the Dawes Kokomo, Saratoga or
Chilliwack. For the adults maybe consider front sus, but this is very much a nice-to-have and
cheap front sus is not usually terribly good.

Fit non-gnarly tyres like the Panaracer Pasela. Tyre upgrades are usually free on new bikes.

Quoted message said:

In terms of transportation, we have a ford galaxy with a tow bar, so any advice on the
permutations of transporting the bikes would also be invaluable.

Two adults plus four children equals Pendle six-bike trailer :-)

Quoted message said:

Any other equipment advice, that you would consider essential purchases please feel free to
advise - shops tend to try and sell you everything!

Pumps, spare tubes, puncture kits, tyre levers, a set of Allen keys, a chain tool and some spare
links, and a copy of something like Haynes bicycle sbook for light reading. Practice changing
tyres in the back garden before heading out - it's better to learn when the pressure is off ;-)

Water bottles and cages are important, and at least one computer to help with map reading and
such. One or two bells for the shared-use tracks, and a mirror might be an idea to keep an eye on
the crocodile.

Quoted message said:

Obviously the scenario above would be costly, suggestions of costs (try and keep it on the lower
side!) would be beneficial.

Kokomo is 175 English pounds, there is also a 24" version. edinburghbicycle.comedinburghbicycle.comOpen ↗ also do
a range of very competitively priced high quality machines.

And every issue of the CTC magazine has a load of classified ads for second-hand bikes. Better to
buy second-hand kids bikes from cyclists rather than people who buy bikes at Halfords - personal
opinion based entirely on prejudice ;-) We spent more on childrens' bikes than most poeple we
know, and they have fewer "toys" (e.g. suspension) - they are also lighter and more robust.

Before buying a helmet read cyclehelmets.orgcyclehelmets.orgOpen ↗ - it's fine to wear one as long as you are
absolutely convinced it won't stop you dying if you crash.

Please keep up posted!

Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. chapmancentral.comchapmancentral.comOpen ↗ New!
Improved!! Now with added extra Demon!

Dear all very helpful contributors

Thank you. We feel much much more informed, all your advise on the bike details and helping us guide
our thinking has been very helpful. Also the details on the vital additional equipment I'm sure will
make our first foray into the trails most enjoyable.

Between your advice, some good web sites and a very good independent cycle shop (still 20 miles away
from our home) we've made our decision on purchasing.

I think for transportation its only really the pendle 6 bike trailer we can use, which while
expensive, will be secure and it doesn't matter what (within reason) future car we get (so long as
we have a towbar).

Most of the kids we're aiming to pick up 2nd hand mountain bikes - they'll keep growing out of them.
But, it did highlight on that issue, that if the kids have a certain ruggedness in their bikes, the
new bike for my wife had to lean more towards the more rugged side of the hybrid bike range.

We had a close look at the Dawes Chilliwack. But on sheer comfort and a surprising lightness
compared to any of the other hybrid trail bikes we plummed for the Marin Coast Trail. We got a very
good deal on it and look forward to years of happy trail cycling.

With Kind Regards

Richard Jolly