Newbie USCF question

"Trip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi Folks,

I just joined the USCF and had a quick question about Categories that I couldn't find an answer to
on their web site. Since I am a new member, I am a Cat V rider. I noticed in their documentation
that you can increase your category, but you can't downgrade back to a Cat V. My question is this:
is there any reason that someone would want to downgrade to a Cat V?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

Any benefits to that category that are not
available to riders in other categories?

Yes.

YOu're such a [censored] - why don't give a reason

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Trip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi Folks,

I just joined the USCF and had a quick question about Categories that I couldn't find an answer
to on their web site. Since I am a new member, I am a Cat V rider. I noticed in their
documentation that you can increase your category, but you can't downgrade back to a Cat V. My
question is this: is there any reason that someone would want to downgrade to a Cat V?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

Any benefits to that category that are not
available to riders in other categories?

Yes.

...ah - never mind. A quick search on Google shows that Kurgan posts so much that he can't
possibly have time to ride a bike, so the most appropriate karmic payoff for this troll would
simply be a power surge that zaps his computer and sends him offline long enough to step outside
for a few minutes.

For the real cyclists then, any comments on my original question below?

Thanks,

Trip

Trip said:

I raced quite a bit in the late 80's, when most people thought of hard-core cyclists as elitist
a-holes. Good to know that helpful people like Kurgan are helping keep that dream alive.

Here's hoping that karma gives him two flats in his next race.

Trip

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Trip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi Folks,

I just joined the USCF and had a quick question about Categories that I couldn't find an answer
to on their web site. Since I am a new member, I am a Cat V rider. I noticed in their
documentation that you can increase your category, but you can't downgrade back to a Cat V. My
question is this: is there any reason that someone would want to downgrade to a Cat V?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

Any benefits to that category that are not
available to riders in other categories?

Yes.

"Trip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I raced quite a bit in the late 80's, when most people thought of hard-core cyclists as elitist
a-holes. Good to know that helpful people like Kurgan are helping keep that dream alive.

No one can ever make you feel inferior without your consent.

Quoted message said:

Here's hoping that karma gives him two flats in his next race.

Dearest Newb -

Don't get so upset, I answered your questions, politely no less.

Good luck in your next race. Glory is within reach! Seizure the day! Until you spread your wings you
have no idea how far you can walk!

K. Gringioni rbr motivational speaker

Trip said:

For the real cyclists then, any comments on my original question

Yes. I don't like to call people dumbass, but it was rather a dumb question. In general, why do you
think the same sport might have different classes/categories to compete in? If you can think of only
one reason, you also already have your answer.

"Trip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...ah - never mind. A quick search on Google shows that Kurgan posts so much that he can't
possibly have time to ride a bike, so the most appropriate karmic payoff for this troll would
simply be a power surge that zaps his computer and sends him offline long enough to step outside
for a few minutes.

For the real cyclists then, any comments on my original question below?

Thanks,

Trip

Trip said:

I raced quite a bit in the late 80's, when most people thought of hard-core cyclists as elitist
a-holes. Good to know that helpful people like Kurgan are helping keep that dream alive.

Here's hoping that karma gives him two flats in his next race.

Trip

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Trip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> Hi Folks,
>
> I just joined the USCF and had a quick question about Categories that I couldn't find an
> answer to on their web site. Since I am a new member, I am a Cat V rider. I noticed in their
> documentation that you can increase your category, but you can't downgrade back to a Cat V. My
> question is this: is there any reason that someone would want to downgrade to a Cat V?

Yes.

> Any benefits to that category that are not
> available to riders in other categories?

Yes.

Hey Trip,

Your rejoinder to KG brightened my otherwise dreary, rainy day. Also, because I'm bored, I'll
attempt to answer your Cat V questions.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> My question is this: is there any reason that someone would want to downgrade to a Cat V?

Not unless you upgrade to Cat 4 on experience, find that you can't hang with the 4's and wanna go
back to the easier 5 races. If this is the case, you'll probably not be wanting to continue racing
anyway. As KG might say, "Maybe you should consider chess."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Any benefits to that category that are not
> available to riders in other categories?

The races are generally shorter and the competition may be less intense, depending on who is
entered. The one big disadvantage to C5 races is that the majority of the racers are complete
noobies and tend to be rather clueless as to how to behave in a pack. In other words, they're
squirrelly riders. You know why they call'm squirrelly, don't you? You've seen a squirrel dart out
into the road in front of the car, stop, go back the other way, stop, go back the other way and get
flattened, haven't you? Well, some C5's dart about quite unpredictably during their races.

Just FYI, the higher categories can "cat down" if there is sufficient reason to do so. For
instance, someone who was a C2 in his younger years may no longer be physically able to keep up in
the C1/2 races and just want to race the 35+ races. However, some promoters will setup the category
as 35+ cat
3/4 to keep out the pro-like 35+ C2 racers and give the rest of the fattie masters 35+ racers a
chance. This guy would then petition the USCF to cat down to 3 so he could race the 35+ 3/4 races.

Good luck in your racing.

Vol

Kurgan, Henry, or whatever your name really is,

Did you think I sounded upset? Perish the thought. I rather enjoyed making you look like an idiot.
To be fair, however, it seems that you do an exemplary job of that without anyone's assistance.

If you're wondering, they're laughing AT you, not WITH you.

But seriously, good luck in Junior High School this year. I'm sure that once you turn 15 and can get
a job at Sack 'n' Save, you will finally be able to earn enough for a bike, and will be able to
leave your computer behind. I assure you that I'm looking forward to that day.

Trip

Kurgan Gringioni said:

"Trip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I raced quite a bit in the late 80's, when most people thought of hard-core cyclists as elitist
a-holes. Good to know that helpful people like Kurgan are helping keep that dream alive.

No one can ever make you feel inferior without your consent.

Quoted message said:

Here's hoping that karma gives him two flats in his next race.

Dearest Newb -

Don't get so upset, I answered your questions, politely no less.

Good luck in your next race. Glory is within reach! Seizure the day! Until you spread your wings
you have no idea how far you can walk!

K. Gringioni rbr motivational speaker

If you had read and understood my question, you will see that was not what was asked. I'd be happy
to reword the question if it is confusing.

I don't like calling people a dumbass either, but flaming me without reading the question is pretty
dumb, n'est pas?

Trip

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Trip said:

For the real cyclists then, any comments on my original question

Yes. I don't like to call people dumbass, but it was rather a dumb question. In general, why do you
think the same sport might have different classes/categories to compete in? If you can think of
only one reason, you also already have your answer.

Voltaire,

Many thanks for your patience and the excellent explanation. I have this nasty habit of asking
"why?" when someone tells me I can't do something (like downgrading from a Cat 4 to Cat 5), and was
wondering if the Cat 5 folks got free beer at races or something cool like that
🙂

Trip

Thanks for the On Fri said:

"Trip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

...ah - never mind. A quick search on Google shows that Kurgan posts so much that he can't
possibly have time to ride a bike, so the most appropriate karmic payoff for this troll would
simply be a power surge that zaps his computer and sends him offline long enough to step outside
for a few minutes.

For the real cyclists then, any comments on my original question below?

Thanks,

Trip

Trip said:

I raced quite a bit in the late 80's, when most people thought of hard-core cyclists as elitist
a-holes. Good to know that helpful people like Kurgan are helping keep that dream alive.

Here's hoping that karma gives him two flats in his next race.

Trip

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:35:29 GMT, "Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

>
>"Trip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>"]news:[email hidden]...
>> Hi Folks,
>>
>> I just joined the USCF and had a quick question about Categories that I couldn't find an
>> answer to on their web site. Since I am a new member, I am a Cat V rider. I noticed in their
>> documentation that you can increase your category, but you can't downgrade back to a Cat V.
>> My question is this: is there any reason that someone would want to downgrade to a Cat V?
>
>
>Yes.
>
>
>> Any benefits to that category that are not
>> available to riders in other categories?
>
>
>
>Yes.
>

Hey Trip,

Your rejoinder to KG brightened my otherwise dreary, rainy day. Also, because I'm bored, I'll
attempt to answer your Cat V questions.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> My question is this: is there any reason that someone would want to downgrade to a Cat V?
>

Not unless you upgrade to Cat 4 on experience, find that you can't hang with the 4's and wanna go
back to the easier 5 races. If this is the case, you'll probably not be wanting to continue racing
anyway. As KG might say, "Maybe you should consider chess."

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> Any benefits to that category that are not
>> available to riders in other categories?
>

The races are generally shorter and the competition may be less intense, depending on who is
entered. The one big disadvantage to C5 races is that the majority of the racers are complete
noobies and tend to be rather clueless as to how to behave in a pack. In other words, they're
squirrelly riders. You know why they call'm squirrelly, don't you? You've seen a squirrel dart out
into the road in front of the car, stop, go back the other way, stop, go back the other way and get
flattened, haven't you? Well, some C5's dart about quite unpredictably during their races.

Just FYI, the higher categories can "cat down" if there is sufficient reason to do so. For
instance, someone who was a C2 in his younger years may no longer be physically able to keep up in
the C1/2 races and just want to race the 35+ races. However, some promoters will setup the category
as 35+ cat
3/4 to keep out the pro-like 35+ C2 racers and give the rest of the fattie masters 35+ racers
a chance. This guy would then petition the USCF to cat down to 3 so he could race the 35+
3/4 races.

Good luck in your racing.

Vol

In article said:

Voltaire,

Many thanks for your patience and the excellent explanation. I have this nasty habit of asking
"why?" when someone tells me I can't do something (like downgrading from a Cat 4 to Cat 5), and
was wondering if the Cat 5 folks got free beer at races or something cool like that
🙂

Actually Cat 5 is suppose to be for people who are new to racing so they can gain racing experience
racing against their peers. It would kind of defeat the reason for having Cat 5 if riders with lots
of racing experience were allowed to downgrade to Cat 5.

Don't let the talk of all the bad riding in the Cat 5s scare you. In reality it is the Cat 3s who
probably have more accidents ( especially accidents that result in injury) than any other category.
Sure there will be more movement and weaving in a Cat 5 pack but then again the Cat 5s tend to ride
farther apart, so the movement doesn't results in that many crashes.

Also in many smaller regions ( in terms of rider numbers) the Cat 4s and 5s ride together lots of
the time so there isn't much point in downgrading from 4 to 5 when the 4s and 5s ride together most
of the time.

Trip said:

I'd be happy to reword the question if it is confusing.

Not at all.

Quoted message said:

I don't like calling people a dumbass either, but flaming me without reading the question is
pretty dumb, n'est pas?

I wasn't flaming, or at least that wasn't my intention. The answer is: to win. If one sport has
different categories, it is to group people with the same characteristics, whatever those may be. If
the categories are numbered 1-5 and all beginners start in 5 by default, apparently the categories
are ability graded. People who can race equally fast will end up in the same category and will have
the same chances of winning. So people who downgrade have either become slower and will now fit
better in a lower category (the slow fat aging master), or they have not become slower but value
wins in inferior fields above the joys of competing in challenging fields (the sandbagger). Either
way, they want to improve their chances of winning.

But this is just my theory; I don't have a racing license, I have never even been to the US, and I
know nothing of USCF rules.

Oh, and it's "n'est-ce pas?".

"rope --> huh?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

YOu're such a [censored] -

Agreed.

Quoted message said:

why don't give a reason

why not?

"Trip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kurgan, Henry, or whatever your name really is,

Did you think I sounded upset? Perish the thought. I rather enjoyed making you look like an idiot.
To be fair, however, it seems that you do an exemplary job of that without anyone's assistance.

If you're wondering, they're laughing AT you, not WITH you.

But seriously, good luck in Junior High School this year. I'm sure that once you turn 15 and can
get a job at Sack 'n' Save, you will finally be able to earn enough for a bike, and will be able
to leave your computer behind. I assure you that I'm looking forward to that day.

Mr. Trip -

I am truly humbled by your words. In the presence of such insightful eloquence the only appropriate
reaction is to bow in awe at the lesson you have taught me.

Best things,

N. Gringioni

"Trip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kurgan, Henry, or whatever your name really is,

Did you think I sounded upset? Perish the thought. I rather enjoyed making you look like an idiot.
To be fair, however, it seems that you do an exemplary job of that without anyone's assistance.

If you're wondering, they're laughing AT you, not WITH you.

No...actually we were laughing with him Dave

Casey,

Thanks for the clarification. That's good to know about what to expect in the Cat 4/5 races.

Trip

Casey Kerrigan said:

In article said:

Voltaire,

Many thanks for your patience and the excellent explanation. I have this nasty habit of asking
"why?" when someone tells me I can't do something (like downgrading from a Cat 4 to Cat 5), and
was wondering if the Cat 5 folks got free beer at races or something cool like that
🙂

Actually Cat 5 is suppose to be for people who are new to racing so they can gain racing experience
racing against their peers. It would kind of defeat the reason for having Cat 5 if riders with lots
of racing experience were allowed to downgrade to Cat 5.

Don't let the talk of all the bad riding in the Cat 5s scare you. In reality it is the Cat 3s who
probably have more accidents ( especially accidents that result in injury) than any other category.
Sure there will be more movement and weaving in a Cat 5 pack but then again the Cat 5s tend to ride
farther apart, so the movement doesn't results in that many crashes.

Also in many smaller regions ( in terms of rider numbers) the Cat 4s and 5s ride together lots of
the time so there isn't much point in downgrading from 4 to 5 when the 4s and 5s ride together most
of the time.

Once again, that was not the question I was asking.

It has been answered by others in this thread though, so please don't concern yourself with another
response. The question you are attempting to answer was not the question that was asked, and I'm not
sure why you thought you were adding value to the conversation without knowing anything (as you
admitted) about the USCF.

You're correct about my botched French though. I've always been better with conversation than
written. 🙂

Trip

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Trip said:

I'd be happy to reword the question if it is confusing.

Not at all.

Quoted message said:

I don't like calling people a dumbass either, but flaming me without reading the question is
pretty dumb, n'est pas?

I wasn't flaming, or at least that wasn't my intention. The answer is: to win. If one sport has
different categories, it is to group people with the same characteristics, whatever those may be.
If the categories are numbered 1-5 and all beginners start in 5 by default, apparently the
categories are ability graded. People who can race equally fast will end up in the same category
and will have the same chances of winning. So people who downgrade have either become slower and
will now fit better in a lower category (the slow fat aging master), or they have not become slower
but value wins in inferior fields above the joys of competing in challenging fields (the
sandbagger). Either way, they want to improve their chances of winning.

But this is just my theory; I don't have a racing license, I have never even been to the US, and I
know nothing of USCF rules.

Oh, and it's "n'est-ce pas?".

Trip said:

Once again, that was not the question I was asking.

What wasn't? You asked: "Is there any reason that someone would want to downgrade to a Cat V?"
and 'Voltaire' gave an answer to your satisfaction. That answer may be summarized by what I
wrote: "To win."

Trip <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Once again, that was not the question I was asking.

It has been answered by others in this thread though, so please don't concern yourself with
another response. The question you are attempting to answer was not the question that was asked,
and I'm not sure why you thought you were adding value to the conversation without knowing
anything (as you admitted) about the USCF.

You're correct about my botched French though. I've always been better with conversation than
written. 🙂

Trip

Trip, You are wrong. As a long standing member of the USCF, my opinion is that he answered your
questions rather thoroughly.

Question #1: Is there any reason that someone would want to downgrade to a Cat V?

Ewoud's answer: To win.

If someone has their ass handed to them by the Cat. 4s for years, but can kick ass and take names in
the Cat. 5 races, they will probably consider downgrading. Especially as they enter their suburban,
wife/kids, house/dog, master fattydom stage. Am I moving to fast for you?

Question #2: Any benefits to that category that are not available to riders in other categories?

Ewoud's answer: To win.

What part don't you understand? Winning at all is a big benefit to some. It feeds/strokes their
ego... even if it is against a bunch of n00bie Cat. 5s.

Just my $0.02

- Boyd S.

Keep the dream alive, Boyd.

Trip

Boyd Speerschneider said:

Trip <[email hidden]> wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Once again, that was not the question I was asking.

It has been answered by others in this thread though, so please don't concern yourself with
another response. The question you are attempting to answer was not the question that was asked,
and I'm not sure why you thought you were adding value to the conversation without knowing
anything (as you admitted) about the USCF.

You're correct about my botched French though. I've always been better with conversation than
written. 🙂

Trip

Trip, You are wrong. As a long standing member of the USCF, my opinion is that he answered your
questions rather thoroughly.

Question #1: Is there any reason that someone would want to downgrade to a Cat V?

Ewoud's answer: To win.

If someone has their ass handed to them by the Cat. 4s for years, but can kick ass and take names
in the Cat. 5 races, they will probably consider downgrading. Especially as they enter their
suburban, wife/kids, house/dog, master fattydom stage. Am I moving to fast for you?

Question #2: Any benefits to that category that are not available to riders in other categories?

Ewoud's answer: To win.

What part don't you understand? Winning at all is a big benefit to some. It feeds/strokes their
ego... even if it is against a bunch of n00bie Cat. 5s.

Just my $0.02

- Boyd S.