Newbie questions

"WalkingJohnny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hey everyone. I have only recently joined a gym and started
exercising.
Unfortunately, I do not yet know any of the theoretical side of
exercise and nutrition, so I thought I might ask my questions here as
a start. If you couldn't be bothered explaining the answer to me, but
could point me towards some information that would, I would be equally
grateful.
O.K., I have two main questions.

1. a) I prefer to do as much exercise as I can handle, rather than
the bare minimum. However, I have heard that muscles grow in the time
that they are resting, so you should never exercise the same muscle
group two days in a row, and that doing so can actually decrease your
muscle mass. I want to know if I can do upper weights + cardio (bike,
walker, stepper) on Day 1 and then do lower weights on Day 2. Would
the cardio from the previous day make it a bad idea to do lower
weights on the next day?

b) I think that fairly soon I would be capable of doing upper
weights + cardio on Day 1, then lower weights + cardio on Day 2 (and
then repeating). The program I was given actually goes Upper -
Cardio - Lower - Cardio (then repeat, always one type of exercise a
day ). As I said I would prefer to do more if my body is able, but if
I found out doing more was not beneficial I would change my mind. What
do you guys think?

2. I know nothing about nutrition. I don't even understand
carbohydrates or protein etc. Would it be better to learn from a
library book rather than websites? If so, could someone please
recommend a good book(s) that would explain to me the functions of the
different types of food categories, how much someone should have
daily, and then give me a good idea as to how I should eat to maximise
energy for working out while not taking in unnecessary fat?

For anyone who bothers to reply, thanks a lot in advance.

-WJ

You haven't stated any goals. How you train is guided by your goals, so
please give us some information about where you are now and where you'd
like to be, e.g., stronger, bigger, stronger and bigger, or better
one-rep-max strength, better endurance, or perhaps better at a
particular sport, or perhaps just looking better for the beach. Supply
your age, sex, height, weight, approximate bodyfat percentage, and
anything else you think might help us give you sound, specific advice -
and we'll do our best.

Be aware that there are many seemingly contradictory approaches to diet
and exercise - in reality, some people find success with almost all of
them, and likewise lots of people fail with lots of them, so you need to
not blindly follow any advice you're given here, in a book, or
elsewhere. Just try what seems sensible to you at the time and pay
attention to whether or not it's working.

Krista's site, http://www.stumptuous.com/weights.html, is a good place
to start; ignore the fact that it's written for women - the information
in it applies very well to everyone.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Thanks heaps for getting back to me.
Well as far as the weights side goes, I would like to be stronger and
bigger. I am only starting to get muscle definition, and the machine
settings I use at the gym are relatively light at the moment. I have gone
from no exercise to going to gym.

19 male, 6'4", 105 kgs (231 pounds)
I'm not sure about my body fat percentage as I'm new to all this. If it's
really important I know I can get it from a machine at my gym. Basically I
think I would have to lost about 7 kilos of fat to have a flat (though not
defined) stomach.
Umm, other information. Well, at the moment I am only using machines - no
free weights - at the gym, and I combine it with a 60 minute cardio workout
whenever time permits. I have read that I should allow my muscles 1-2 days
to recoup after exercising them which severely cuts back on the amount of
exercise I can do. I would much prefer to do the most my body is capable of
(one muscle group + cardio per day). On one day I do chest shoulders and
biceps, on the other day it is legs, back and I think triceps. I got the
program from a personal trainer at my gym. I would ask him all of this but
it costs $80 per session.
I'm finding that I'm getting fit unusually quick. My dad has always told me
this is the case with him too, so perhaps genetics is on my side. However, I
am definitely not as strong as I should be for my size.
Anything else you need just say and I'd be happy to provide.
Thanks again
- WJ

Johnny,
I would first say that it is great that you are enthusiastic about
working out. However be careful on starting too fast so that you don't
hurt yourself or overtrain. I always take a couple days off my workout
a week and feel the rest is important. The strongest I ever got
happened when I was so busy that I only went to the gym once a week,
this weekly workout was very intense. I was afraid that I would lose
strength from not working out as much, but every week I got stronger
and stronger. I would say that your idea about doing weights and then
cardio does not sound bad. You have not mentioned your fitness goals,
if you are looking to bulk up then I think you would need to modify
your schedule a bit (personally the schedule that you got upper -
cardio - lower - cardio looks pretty good you could just work very hard
focusing on the exercise of the day). In my experience I like to go
straight home from the gym after lifting and immediately drink a
smoothie with protein and then around an hour later eat a balanced
meal. I would definitely recommend that you do cardio last since it
sucks the intensity out of your weightlifting if done before. As far
as nutrition is concerned a good balanced diet with very little junk
food is a good start. This can be supplemented with some protein
powder if you feel it is needed. I mainly just take multivitamins for
my vitamin intake. I know some other people take a whole assortment of
vitamin pills.
Please let me know if you have any questions.

James

Johnny,
I wouldn't be surprised that you are getting fit quick since it
sounds like you are more motivated than most. I would recommend that
you add some free weights to your routine, I feel that they build
muscle better. Just be more careful with free weights and start light.
I wouldn't really say that giving your muscle groups 1 to 2 days rest
should severely cut back on the exercise you can do. You just have to
split your body up more if you want to go to the gym more. A three day
split that I use is chest (the pushing exercises), back (the pulling
exercises), and legs and abs. I feel that splitting the upper body
along pushing and pulling lines makes more sense than the schedule the
personal trainer gave you since triceps are used most in chest
exercises and biceps are used most in back exercises. Do the biggest
muscle group exercises first and work your way down (e.g. on chest days
start with bench or incline and finish with triceps). Just work really
hard on the focused days and you will do well. My personal opinion is
that a hard hour workout is about right for me. With your desire to do
weights and cardio (60min) on the same day this adds up to two hours a
day. I would recommend not being in the gym longer than this each day
for physical and personal 🙂 reasons. Please contact me if you have
any questions.

James

Andrzej,
I fully agree (as stated above) with having triceps on chest days and
biceps on back days. It confuses me why there are trainers out there
that recommend otherwise since these are used together. To split them
the other way would seem to lead to overtraining and less intense
workouts of the smaller muscles since they don't get as much time off.
If there is anyone out there that can explain the chest/bicep
back/bicep logic to me I would really like to hear it. This is all
taken from my experience and opinion, I am open to hear reasoning
against it and do not mean this as a knock on anyone.

Thank you,
James

Dnia 2005-06-16 [email hidden] napisa³(a):

Quoted message said:

Andrzej,
I fully agree (as stated above) with having triceps on chest days and
biceps on back days. It confuses me why there are trainers out there
that recommend otherwise since these are used together.

Arms are trained "indirectly" with all pressing and pulling motions.
Having them trained directly on "opposite" days, when they are relatively
fresh, should lead to more intense direct work.

Quoted message said:

To split them
the other way would seem to lead to overtraining

Not necessarily. It could, but just about anything could lead to
overtraining. Well, this kind of split gives more intense arm training,
which many people want anyway. Big guns and all...

Quoted message said:

and less intense
workouts of the smaller muscles since they don't get as much time off.

Maybe. I started doing arms on my legs day and still am able to work
them hard. I train most days, so overall load is quite remarkable, but
I seem to handle it all right. I do not think that moving arms to
"opposite" days is inherently wrong. I wouldn't do it, so I wrote it,
but others can try for themselves.

Quoted message said:

If there is anyone out there that can explain the chest/bicep
back/bicep logic to me I would really like to hear it. This is all
taken from my experience and opinion, I am open to hear reasoning
against it and do not mean this as a knock on anyone.

From my experience - when I tried to train curls after pullups and rows
they were a joke, so I skipped them totally. When I do them after squats
they "mean" something. Not much (even supersetted with nosebreakers),
but this is as much as I'm willing to do after heavy leg work 😉.

Easiest way would be to try for yourself, for a month or two.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Andrzej,
I appreciate the reply. I guess you realized that I did a typo when
I wrote "chest/bicep back/bicep logic" since I meant to inquire about
the chest/bicep and back/tricep logic. My training focus is on overall
strength so I work primarily on the big muscle groups and sometimes
don't even do arms directly. I generally do triceps to burnout at the
end of my chest days and feel that my biceps get worked fine during the
other parts of my back workout. I do dumbell rows (I call it the
lawnmower pull) at the end and that works my back and biceps good.
Anyway I like working out this way because I feel I get the most out of
my time at the gym, as I said above I generally limit my workouts to an
hour.

Thank you,
James

"WalkingJohnny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks heaps for getting back to me.
Well as far as the weights side goes, I would like to be stronger and
bigger. I am only starting to get muscle definition, and the machine
settings I use at the gym are relatively light at the moment. I have
gone from no exercise to going to gym.

19 male, 6'4", 105 kgs (231 pounds)
I'm not sure about my body fat percentage as I'm new to all this. If
it's really important I know I can get it from a machine at my gym.
Basically I think I would have to lost about 7 kilos of fat to have a
flat (though not defined) stomach.
Umm, other information. Well, at the moment I am only using machines -
no free weights - at the gym, and I combine it with a 60 minute cardio
workout whenever time permits. I have read that I should allow my
muscles 1-2 days to recoup after exercising them which severely cuts
back on the amount of exercise I can do. I would much prefer to do the
most my body is capable of (one muscle group + cardio per day). On one
day I do chest shoulders and biceps, on the other day it is legs, back
and I think triceps. I got the program from a personal trainer at my
gym. I would ask him all of this but it costs $80 per session.
I'm finding that I'm getting fit unusually quick. My dad has always
told me this is the case with him too, so perhaps genetics is on my
side. However, I am definitely not as strong as I should be for my
size.
Anything else you need just say and I'd be happy to provide.
Thanks again
- WJ

I think you're smart to start easily. When you're ready, I recommend
you get Pavel's "Power To The People!" http://www.kbnj.com - it's a
great introduction to weight training and will help you figure things
out for yourself. There is also a discussion forum on the publisher's
web site that can be very helpful.

Congrats on going to the gym and on already losing some weight, and keep
up the good work.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

"Steve Freides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"WalkingJohnny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks heaps for getting back to me.
Well as far as the weights side goes, I would like to be stronger and
bigger. I am only starting to get muscle definition, and the machine
settings I use at the gym are relatively light at the moment. I have
gone from no exercise to going to gym.

19 male, 6'4", 105 kgs (231 pounds)
I'm not sure about my body fat percentage as I'm new to all this. If
it's really important I know I can get it from a machine at my gym.
Basically I think I would have to lost about 7 kilos of fat to have a
flat (though not defined) stomach.
Umm, other information. Well, at the moment I am only using
machines - no free weights - at the gym, and I combine it with a 60
minute cardio workout whenever time permits. I have read that I
should allow my muscles 1-2 days to recoup after exercising them
which severely cuts back on the amount of exercise I can do. I would
much prefer to do the most my body is capable of (one muscle group +
cardio per day). On one day I do chest shoulders and biceps, on the
other day it is legs, back and I think triceps. I got the program
from a personal trainer at my gym. I would ask him all of this but it
costs $80 per session.
I'm finding that I'm getting fit unusually quick. My dad has always
told me this is the case with him too, so perhaps genetics is on my
side. However, I am definitely not as strong as I should be for my
size.
Anything else you need just say and I'd be happy to provide.
Thanks again
- WJ

I think you're smart to start easily. When you're ready, I recommend
you get Pavel's "Power To The People!" http://www.kbnj.com - it's a
great introduction to weight training and will help you figure things
out for yourself. There is also a discussion forum on the publisher's
web site that can be very helpful.

Congrats on going to the gym and on already losing some weight, and
keep up the good work.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Bad link - the book is at http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm, or you can find
it in most major bookstores and also online at http://www.amazon.com and
elsewhere.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Dnia 2005-06-20 [email hidden] napisa³(a):

Quoted message said:

Andrzej,
I appreciate the reply. I guess you realized that I did a typo when
I wrote "chest/bicep back/bicep logic" since I meant to inquire about
the chest/bicep and back/tricep logic. My training focus is on overall
strength so I work primarily on the big muscle groups and sometimes
don't even do arms directly. I generally do triceps to burnout at the
end of my chest days and feel that my biceps get worked fine during the
other parts of my back workout.

Similar to what I did. I didn't train arms directly for some time and
they grew, but I found that some direct work actually helps with those
big movements we all want to move forward.

I guess it was DZ who not so long ago risked statement, that curls and
extensions of arms do nothing for real life strength. Well, in my case
they do something.

Newbies in general spend way too much time training arms, so we tend
here to "preach" a little and overcompensate with our advices, but once
you do basics all right there is a time to fine tune your routine for
your personal needs. Or even change it radically for a while and see
what will happen.

Quoted message said:

I do dumbell rows (I call it the
lawnmower pull) at the end and that works my back and biceps good.
Anyway I like working out this way because I feel I get the most out of
my time at the gym,

It looks like you could actually try to move arms to "opposite" days. I
guess you would progress nicely at least for a while.

Quoted message said:

as I said above I generally limit my workouts to an hour.

It is enough, but if you feel like doing more or less, just do not be
afraid to try it.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R

Andrzej Rosa said:

Dnia 2005-06-20 [email hidden] napisa³(a):

Quoted message said:

Andrzej,
I appreciate the reply. I guess you realized that I did a typo when
I wrote "chest/bicep back/bicep logic" since I meant to inquire about
the chest/bicep and back/tricep logic. My training focus is on overall
strength so I work primarily on the big muscle groups and sometimes
don't even do arms directly. I generally do triceps to burnout at the
end of my chest days and feel that my biceps get worked fine during the
other parts of my back workout.

Similar to what I did. I didn't train arms directly for some time and
they grew, but I found that some direct work actually helps with those
big movements we all want to move forward.

I guess it was DZ who not so long ago risked statement, that curls and
extensions of arms do nothing for real life strength.

Dmitri refuses to do direct arm work with anything except official
Dragon Door kettlebells.
--

JMW
http://www.rustyiron.net

Dnia 2005-06-21 DZ napisa³(a):

Quoted message said:

Andrzej Rosa said:

Similar to what I did. I didn't train arms directly for some time and
they grew, but I found that some direct work actually helps with those
big movements we all want to move forward.

I guess it was DZ who not so long ago risked statement, that curls and
extensions of arms do nothing for real life strength. Well, in my case
they do something.

I was just BS-ing.

You got me 😉.

On the other hand, after not doing any curls for couple of months I can
strict curl what I was power curling (aka cheat curl) before. I mean, I
had to jerk the weight from slightly below my knees, and now I simply
curl it with stationary upper body and elbows.

Sure, I still have those beginner gains after some years of lay off, but
I was impressed anyway 😉.

Quoted message said:

I don't do direct arms work, but I don't really
doubt it may help in increasing the size, at least. My observation is
that people who do *only* curls, triceps pushdowns etc. end up looking
like this - http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/hhh3/henry1.jpg
Nothing wrong with that of course, if that's what you're after
(decorative - ornamental kind of look).

If I was after looks only, then I'd still mostly press and pull.

--
Andrzej Rosa 1127R