Newbie question: Rollers

Shayne Wissler said:

How well does roller skill translate into riding skill, and does it matter?

It forces you to ride a smooth line, which your riding partners will appreciate. It can also help
you smooth out your pedaling.

Quoted message said:

Do pros use rollers?

lots do. You can see some of them using them while warming up, especially before time trials.

judibob said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

It forces you to ride a smooth line, which your riding partners will appreciate. It can also
help you smooth out your pedaling.

Why does a smooth pedal stroke matter?

smooth = efficient come back and ask this same question after a fast hundred

I have seen no evidence that smooth = efficient. Come back and make this same point after you've
looked at efficiency data.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Do pros use rollers?

lots do. You can see some of them using them while warming up, especially before time trials.

I've never seen pros use rollers to warm up before a TT.

I can send you a tape of the 1994 Tour showing Mr. Boardman warming up on rollers on his Lotus. I
can send you a tape of the 1986 Tour with Robert Millar warming up on rollers. I can send you a
tape of the 1989 Tour with Eric Breukink warming up on rollers. I can send you tapes of many track
world championships with many riders warming up on the 10" rollers - they're all over the place at
track meets. Yes, lots of pros and amateurs use rollers for warmups / workouts.

First, yes, please send me those tapes. Not that I doubt your proof, just that I wouldn't mind some
tapes of those races. I should have written, "I doubt that 'lots do.' Except for the eccentric, pros
haven't used rollers to warm up before TT's in years, which is why I've never seen one."

"Shayne Wissler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:j09Za.104794$uu5.15041@sccrnsc04...

Quoted message said:

How well does roller skill translate into riding skill, and does it matter?

Being smooth enough to ride roller easily is a good skill -- helps in being a safe rider. But I'm
not sure rollers are worth the money -- if you have enough space and funds, get a pair. Otherwise,
see if you can borrow them from someone and use them for a few weeks.

Once you're mastered them, they're not that useful. A trainer is way better for warming up
and training.

JT

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Why wouldn't a smoother stroke matter? Smoother stroke helps you ride in a straight line, which
rollers forces you to do. also more efficient than pedaling squares. :-)

JIyang

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jay Hill said:

Shayne Wissler said:

How well does roller skill translate into riding skill, and does it matter?

It forces you to ride a smooth line, which your riding partners will appreciate. It can also
help you smooth out your pedaling.

Why does a smooth pedal stroke matter?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do pros use rollers?

lots do. You can see some of them using them while warming up, especially before time trials.

I've never seen pros use rollers to warm up before a TT.

"Shayne Wissler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:j09Za.104794$uu5.15041@sccrnsc04...

Quoted message said:

How well does roller skill translate into riding skill, and does it

matter?

Quoted message said:

Do pros use rollers?

Shayne Wissler

The smoother you pedal, the more powerful you look. This is important for bluffing in breaks. If you
are not smooth when you are near your limit, you are more vulnerable to attacks.

BTW, many people can ride smoothly without resorting to rollers. I consider them a waste of time and
a throwback to the "old days". I consider variable trainers as essential. You can do indoor
intervals and take out virtually all variables other than the load you want.

Robert Chung wrote: [snip]

Quoted message said:

First, yes, please send me those tapes. Not that I doubt your proof, just that I wouldn't mind
some tapes of those races. I should have written, "I doubt that 'lots do.' Except for the
eccentric, pros haven't used rollers to warm up before TT's in years, which is why I've never
seen one."

Drat. I've been reading so many rider diaries online I can't for the life of me recall whose I read
it in, but during the TdF there was a reference to someone working out on rollers before a stage.
Possibly TH, as he may have been checking his balance and control.

Ignatz Q. Mouse said:

during the TdF there was a reference to someone working out on rollers before a stage. Possibly TH,
as he may have been checking his balance and control.

I wouldn't think so; he had to take NO chances, play it safe always, so definitely use a trainer.

If anyone, my guess would be Millar. He probably thinks it's cool.

Nick Burns said:

"Shayne Wissler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:j09Za.104794$uu5.15041@sccrnsc04...

Quoted message said:

How well does roller skill translate into riding skill, and does it

matter?

Quoted message said:

Do pros use rollers?

Shayne Wissler

The smoother you pedal, the more powerful you look. This is important for bluffing in breaks. If
you are not smooth when you are near your limit, you are more vulnerable to attacks.

BTW, many people can ride smoothly without resorting to rollers. I consider them a waste of time
and a throwback to the "old days". I consider variable trainers as essential. You can do indoor
intervals and take out virtually all variables other than the load you want.

You mean you can't do intervals on rollers?

Top-poster Jiyang Chen said:

Why wouldn't a smoother stroke matter? Smoother stroke helps you ride in a straight line, which
rollers forces you to do. also more efficient than pedaling squares. :-)

First, efficiency has almost no relevance for cyclists until race organizers start penalizing for
the number of energy bars one eats. Until then, the race goes to the swift, not to the least hungry.

Second, even if efficiency did have any relevance, what makes you think efficiency is affected by
the smoothness of pedaling? I can find no evidence of it, though since I haven't done an exhaustive
search perhaps you can uncover something. Please look and report back.

Third, instrumented pedal studies reveal that the fastest riders don't have smoother pedal strokes
than slower riders -- in fact, elite "national-class" road racers have *less* smooth pedal strokes.
So even if smooth pedaling did matter, one could almost argue that it matters in the wrong
direction.

Robert Chung said:

So even if smooth pedaling did matter, one could almost argue that it matters in the wrong
direction.

BTW, I don't make this argument. I say that smooth pedaling mostly doesn't matter, except perhaps
to MTB'ers.

Robert Chung said:

Robert Chung said:

So even if smooth pedaling did matter, one could almost argue that it matters in the wrong
direction.

BTW, I don't make this argument. I say that smooth pedaling mostly doesn't matter, except perhaps
to MTB'ers.

Why MTB'ers, since you speculate? As my road ride has been in peices while waiting for its
replacement to arrive, I've taken to the hills during these fine summer months. Setting a steady
cadence is important (although roots and rocks in number can batter the best intentions of
maintaining such), good balance and bike handling, certainly, but the terrain being more
variable (including sand, loose sand/pea-gravel on hardpan, pineneedles, etc.) appear to nullify
a smooth stroke.

I would hazard a smooth stroke is important on the way home, when toasted by sun and worn by grade,
the least variance in stroke appears to do more than exhausted pedal mashing, as from one who has
left it all on road a couple times getting back. I don't like to transport the bike if at all
possible, so stop-start due to traffic can be key to ending a ride on a high note or totally wasted.

Richard Adams wondered:

Quoted message said:

Robert Chung said:

smooth pedaling mostly doesn't matter, except perhaps to MTB'ers.

Why MTB'ers, since you speculate?

It's not quite speculation--at least, that elite off-road riders have smoother pedaling strokes
than elite road riders isn't speculation, it's measurement. The speculation part is "why?" The
hypothesis is that they have had to learn to modulate torque on slippery or dodgy surfaces to
maintain traction.

I agree; if you can afford rollers, get 'em. I have been using rollers for over 20 years and
they certainly do illuminate any bouncing while pedaling on your bike or inconsistencies in your
pedal stroke.

The only drawback with rollers is that they do not provide the rolling resistance of a fan
mechanism.

Noticed that Kreitler has smaller drummed rollers claiming that they increase rolling resistance.
Anyone had any experience with these. Also, anyone have any experience with Kreitlers headwind
system over a stand with resistance fans.

-Sheldon

[email hidden] (Gary K) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Nick Burns said:

"Shayne Wissler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:j09Za.104794$uu5.15041@sccrnsc04...

Quoted message said:

How well does roller skill translate into riding skill, and does it

matter?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Do pros use rollers?

Shayne Wissler

The smoother you pedal, the more powerful you look. This is important for bluffing in breaks. If
you are not smooth when you are near your limit, you are more vulnerable to attacks.

BTW, many people can ride smoothly without resorting to rollers. I consider them a waste of time
and a throwback to the "old days". I consider variable trainers as essential. You can do indoor
intervals and take out virtually all variables other than the load you want.

You mean you can't do intervals on rollers?

"Sheldon K. Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Noticed that Kreitler has smaller drummed rollers claiming that they increase rolling resistance.

They do increase the resistance, but the only way you can adjust the resistance is by varying the
pressure in your tyres. That's more than a little impractical if you are doing sets of intervals
with quality recovery in between efforts.

Gary K said:

You mean you can't do intervals on rollers?

Of course you can, but it is very unlikely you will be able to set the workload according to
any objective other than hitting a cadence objective, or maybe a heart rate objective. Have you
ever tried it?

Quoted message said:

I agree; if you can afford rollers, get 'em. I have been using rollers for over 20 years and
they certainly do illuminate any bouncing while pedaling on your bike or inconsistencies in your
pedal stroke.

The only drawback with rollers is that they do not provide the rolling resistance of a fan
mechanism.

Noticed that Kreitler has smaller drummed rollers claiming that they increase rolling resistance.
Anyone had any experience with these. Also, anyone have any experience with Kreitlers headwind
system over a stand with resistance fans.

-Sheldon

Kreitler's site does talk about a "Killer Kool Headwind" Fan where they say you can have an
adjustable variation from 2mph tailwind to a 10mph headwind.

LINK: kreitler.comaccess.htmOpen ↗

Then again their site is pretty out of date, the flywheel still says "New for 97!"

Rollers are definetly great for learning to ride in a straight line, which is very helpful in a pace
line or peleton.

--
Dave

Nick Burns said:

Gary K said:

You mean you can't do intervals on rollers?

Of course you can, but it is very unlikely you will be able to set the workload according to any
objective other than hitting a cadence objective, or maybe a heart rate objective. Have you ever
tried it?

Rollers is all I got (they were a bargain buy). And I do mainly interval work on them. You vary the
resistance via your gearing, you have cadence or km/hr (both wheels are spinning so you can leave
your sensors on the forks) and heart rate as guides.

Trainers would be a little better, can have higher resistance, can pedal standing, thats about all
the advantages. Varying the trainers resistance makes it too complicated, especially if you are
recording recovery heart rates and want to compare between sessions. I'd prefer the trainers to have
fixed setting.

Quoted message said:

BTW, many people can ride smoothly without resorting to rollers. I

consider

Quoted message said:

them a waste of time and a throwback to the "old days". I consider

variable

Quoted message said:

trainers as essential. You can do indoor intervals and take out virtually all variables other than
the load you want.

I agree that you can ride better quality intervals on trainers v. rollers, BUT trainers allow you to
develop bad habits that you just can't develop when you're trying to stay upright.

For smoothing out your spin, light workouts, rollers are about the best thing you can ride.

For doing intervals, strength work, then trainers are the way to fly. They let you concentrate on
the workout...

If you have the $$, buy both.

Mike

judibob schreef:

Quoted message said:

I can send you a tape of the 1994 Tour showing Mr. Boardman warming up on rollers on his Lotus.

But nothing more recent ?

All riders I've seen warming up in the last 5 years, on TV, other people's pictures or with own
eyes, were using trainers.

But some pros indeed recommend rollers for young riders.