Newbie question: cleats on recumbents

FLM said:

Hello all:

So I have my first recumbent, a BikeE E2.

Is that the tandem? Lucky you.

Quoted message said:

My question regards the use of cleated shoes/pedals on recumbents. I
have not seen much discussion of this.

Try a search of google groups (www.google.co.uk/groups). There have been
discussions of this in the past.

Quoted message said:

Cleats would seem to be a good
idea as I wouldn't have to fight against gravity to keep my foot on
the pedal. However, I am concerned that cleats would be more
difficult to get in/out of on a bent than an upright. Oh, and just to
make me a double newbie, please note that I have not used cleats
before either, on any type of bike.

So:
Cleats on a bent: is it a good idea?

Cleats on a bent are a fantastic idea. Even more so than on a 'normal'
bike. Partly for the reason you discovered, and partly because on some
recumbents, if you put your foot on the ground whilst you're moving
it can get caught awkwardly and mangled. ('Leg/foot suck - sounds more
appealing than it actually is'😉.

I don't think this is an issue on my 'bent, and possibly not on yours
either. But I've never fancied doing the experiment, hence clipless.

Quoted message said:

Can you get in/out of them quickly?

I can. I also <boast> never fell over after I bought mine, though I fell
over often enough learning to ride.

Quoted message said:

What brand of cleat would you recommend?

Looking at your bike, I imagine you're into touring / pleasure rides? Get
shoes and cleats that you can walk in. I use SPDs & Shimano 324's, others
will differ.

You can get pedals that are platforms on one side, and take cleats on the
other. These can be a good compromise, if you sometimes want to wear
'normal' shoes, or if friends, family and strangers want to have a go.

Have fun,

AC

Quoted message said:

See you on RAGBRAI,
-Frank

As BBs get higher then leg-suck becomes more likely. Cleats prevent
leg-suck.

"FLM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
| Hello all:
|
| So I have my first recumbent, a BikeE E2.
|
| My question regards the use of cleated shoes/pedals on recumbents. I
| have not seen much discussion of this. Cleats would seem to be a good
| idea as I wouldn't have to fight against gravity to keep my foot on
| the pedal. However, I am concerned that cleats would be more
| difficult to get in/out of on a bent than an upright. Oh, and just to
| make me a double newbie, please note that I have not used cleats
| before either, on any type of bike.
|
| So:
| Cleats on a bent: is it a good idea?
| Can you get in/out of them quickly?
| What brand of cleat would you recommend?
|
| See you on RAGBRAI,
| -Frank

"FLM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello all:

So I have my first recumbent, a BikeE E2.

My question regards the use of cleated shoes/pedals on recumbents. I
have not seen much discussion of this. Cleats would seem to be a good
idea as I wouldn't have to fight against gravity to keep my foot on
the pedal. However, I am concerned that cleats would be more
difficult to get in/out of on a bent than an upright. Oh, and just to
make me a double newbie, please note that I have not used cleats
before either, on any type of bike.

So:
Cleats on a bent: is it a good idea?

Yes it was the best thing I ever bought for my bent

Quoted message said:

Can you get in/out of them quickly?

Yes

Quoted message said:

What brand of cleat would you recommend?

Good question, Eggbeaters

Quoted message said:

See you on RAGBRAI,
-Frank

Flm said:

Hello all:
So I have my first recumbent, a BikeE E2.
So: Cleats on a bent: is it a good idea? Can you get in/out of them
quickly? What brand of cleat would you recommend?
See you on RAGBRAI, -Frank

I use toe clips with straps on my BikeE. (5$) If I'm touring, I crank
them tight, and I can't imagine a clipless job holding my foot much more
securely, although I know many swear by them.

The toeclip release is very easy, on a 'bent even more so, because the
foot is more horizontal than vertical, thus gravity allows you to kick
down easily and "fall" out of the clips when desired.

After reading about how riders have their first inevitable falls
adjusting to clipless pedals, I opted for this more low-tech solution,
works great for me.

--

No SPD-R! Death! Fear! They need lots of downward pressure to disengage.

I like my Shimano look style cleats on my SWB. Not really walkable, but you
won't break your ankle either.

"FLM" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hello all:

So I have my first recumbent, a BikeE E2.

My question regards the use of cleated shoes/pedals on recumbents. I
have not seen much discussion of this. Cleats would seem to be a good
idea as I wouldn't have to fight against gravity to keep my foot on
the pedal. However, I am concerned that cleats would be more
difficult to get in/out of on a bent than an upright. Oh, and just to
make me a double newbie, please note that I have not used cleats
before either, on any type of bike.

So:
Cleats on a bent: is it a good idea?
Can you get in/out of them quickly?
What brand of cleat would you recommend?

See you on RAGBRAI,
-Frank

John Duval said:

No SPD-R! Death! Fear! They need lots of downward pressure to disengage.

I use the (now discontinued) Ultegra SPD-R pedals on my
V-Rex and Volae Team without problems. I find them easy to
get in and out of. But you *must* keep the three little
top plate screws snugged up tight; if you let them get even
a little loose they can make it very difficult to disengage
your shoe.

But as much as I like the pedals, there's no point to
recommend them since Shimano has now discontinued the
whole SPD-R line.

Rick Moll

Doug Huffman said:

As BBs get higher then leg-suck becomes more likely. Cleats prevent
leg-suck.

<pedant>
I would have thought that leg-suck would become more likely as the cyclist
becomes more reclined (i.e. high bottom bracket) and lower to the ground.
I have a very high bottom bracket, but I don't think I could get
'leg-suck'. Is there any way to be sure?
</pedant (sorry)>

AC

anonymous coward said:

Doug Huffman said:

As BBs get higher then leg-suck becomes more likely. Cleats prevent
leg-suck.

<pedant>
I would have thought that leg-suck would become more likely as the cyclist
becomes more reclined (i.e. high bottom bracket) and lower to the ground.
I have a very high bottom bracket, but I don't think I could get
'leg-suck'. Is there any way to be sure?
</pedant (sorry)>

That's a good point, I'm much more concerned about leg suck
when I ride one of our Greenspeed trikes than when I'm on my
big wheel Volae. Although there is also the issue of loss of
control should your feet slip off. Consequently, I wouldn't
even consider riding any of my recumbents without cleated
pedals; although I do occasionally ride a mountain bike in
tennis shoes or hiking boots.

"Rick Moll" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

anonymous coward said:

Doug Huffman said:

As BBs get higher then leg-suck becomes more likely. Cleats prevent
leg-suck.

<pedant>
I would have thought that leg-suck would become more likely as the

cyclist

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

becomes more reclined (i.e. high bottom bracket) and lower to the

ground.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I have a very high bottom bracket, but I don't think I could get
'leg-suck'. Is there any way to be sure?
</pedant (sorry)>

That's a good point, I'm much more concerned about leg suck
when I ride one of our Greenspeed trikes than when I'm on my
big wheel Volae. Although there is also the issue of loss of
control should your feet slip off. Consequently, I wouldn't
even consider riding any of my recumbents without cleated
pedals; although I do occasionally ride a mountain bike in
tennis shoes or hiking boots.

Leg suck, as I understand it, is when a foot comes off the pedal, hits the
ground, takes a bad bounce, and goes under the rear wheel which sucks your
leg under the bike. Really Ugly.

I would say a tall high bb bike that only provided tip toe contact with the
ground, such as a Volae might, would be least likely to suck. By the same
token the high bottom bracket bike would seem to the best candidate to have
an unrestrained foot slip off the pedal which, at speed, creates immediate
loss of stability (big time). Cleated pedals keep your feet on the pedals
where they belong when they need to be there. They are arguably your most
important safely accessory on a recumbent. My advice - don't leave home
without them.

skip

skip said:

Leg suck, as I understand it, is when a foot comes off the pedal, hits the
ground, takes a bad bounce, and goes under the rear wheel which sucks your
leg under the bike. Really Ugly.

It doesn't have to take a bounce. Leg suck is when your foot, for
whatever reason, makes contact with the ground, then, as our feet are
trained to do, 'grabs ground'. As the bike passes on, that snaps the
foot and leg backward relative to the bike, doing major damage to the
leg.

The foot doesn't have to bounce and it doesn't have to have anything
to do with the rear wheel. If it gets that far back, you do have a
serious problem...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

"Curtis L. Russell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

skip said:

Leg suck, as I understand it, is when a foot comes off the pedal, hits

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ground, takes a bad bounce, and goes under the rear wheel which sucks

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

leg under the bike. Really Ugly.

It doesn't have to take a bounce. Leg suck is when your foot, for
whatever reason, makes contact with the ground, then, as our feet are
trained to do, 'grabs ground'. As the bike passes on, that snaps the
foot and leg backward relative to the bike, doing major damage to the
leg.

The foot doesn't have to bounce and it doesn't have to have anything
to do with the rear wheel. If it gets that far back, you do have a
serious problem...

When my foot came off the pedal, while spinning at speed, my leg bounced
upward on impact and a bit toward the side away from the bike (I think -
this all happend in an instant). Maybe it was a lucky bounce for me because
my foot never 'grabbed ground'. I was on a low bottom bracket lwb Ryan
where my foot could reach ground with plenty to spare. Even though I didn't
get sucked I did experience severe lack of stability as a result of this
situation.

Cleated pedals are the answer.

skip

P.S. This happened when the recumbent was new. Even though I was
experienced at riding uprights with cleated pedals I just couldn't wait to
try this new machine out and see how stable it was at speed. Instead I found
out how unstable it could become.

"skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Curtis L. Russell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

skip said:

Leg suck, as I understand it, is when a foot comes off the pedal, hits

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

ground, takes a bad bounce, and goes under the rear wheel which sucks

your

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

leg under the bike. Really Ugly.

It doesn't have to take a bounce. Leg suck is when your foot, for
whatever reason, makes contact with the ground, then, as our feet are
trained to do, 'grabs ground'. As the bike passes on, that snaps the
foot and leg backward relative to the bike, doing major damage to the
leg.

The foot doesn't have to bounce and it doesn't have to have anything
to do with the rear wheel. If it gets that far back, you do have a
serious problem...

When my foot came off the pedal, while spinning at speed, my leg bounced
upward on impact and a bit toward the side away from the bike (I think -
this all happend in an instant). Maybe it was a lucky bounce for me

because

Quoted message said:

my foot never 'grabbed ground'. I was on a low bottom bracket lwb Ryan
where my foot could reach ground with plenty to spare. Even though I

didn't

Quoted message said:

get sucked I did experience severe lack of stability as a result of this
situation.

Cleated pedals are the answer.

Cleated pedals are surely the answer when you are into performance cycling.
This is true no matter how low or how high the BB. However, if you are just
poking along then it is not necessary to have cleated pedals. You will be
spinning slower and with less pressure and will have plenty of time to react
if your foot slips off the pedal.

Quoted message said:

skip

P.S. This happened when the recumbent was new. Even though I was
experienced at riding uprights with cleated pedals I just couldn't wait to
try this new machine out and see how stable it was at speed. Instead I

found

Quoted message said:

out how unstable it could become.

All recumbents are terrifically unstable when compared to uprights.
Therefore, it behooves us to use caution when operating these contraptions
otherwise known as recumbents. I find lately that I am gravitating more and
more to my recumbent trikes because I am growing weary of combating the
constant instability of 2 wheel recumbents.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

All recumbents are terrifically unstable when compared to uprights.
Therefore, it behooves us to use caution when operating these contraptions
otherwise known as recumbents. I find lately that I am gravitating more

and

Quoted message said:

more to my recumbent trikes because I am growing weary of combating the
constant instability of 2 wheel recumbents.

Actually I find the Ryan a terrifically stable bike as long as one follows a
few simple rules such as keeping your feet on the bike if it's moving. If
I'm going downhill at 45 mph on an upright I'm a worried man. My
imagination is filled with all sorts of grotesque things that could go wrong
and send me hurtling down the mountain head first and face down. On the
other hand the Ryan is so stable at that speed and I'm so relaxed that I
find myself wishing I could twist a throttle and pick up another 10 or so
mph. Same for the GRR. These are exceptionally stable bikes that handle
beautifully at high speed (and low speed too in the Ryan's case). I do not
feel the need for a trike's stability. That day is sure to come, but it's
not here yet.

skip

"skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

All recumbents are terrifically unstable when compared to uprights.
Therefore, it behooves us to use caution when operating these

contraptions

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

otherwise known as recumbents. I find lately that I am gravitating more

and

Quoted message said:

more to my recumbent trikes because I am growing weary of combating the
constant instability of 2 wheel recumbents.

Actually I find the Ryan a terrifically stable bike as long as one follows

a

Quoted message said:

few simple rules such as keeping your feet on the bike if it's moving. If
I'm going downhill at 45 mph on an upright I'm a worried man. My
imagination is filled with all sorts of grotesque things that could go

wrong

Quoted message said:

and send me hurtling down the mountain head first and face down. On the
other hand the Ryan is so stable at that speed and I'm so relaxed that I
find myself wishing I could twist a throttle and pick up another 10 or so
mph. Same for the GRR. These are exceptionally stable bikes that handle
beautifully at high speed (and low speed too in the Ryan's case). I do

not

Quoted message said:

feel the need for a trike's stability. That day is sure to come, but it's
not here yet.

All recumbents will trick you when you least expect it.The fact is they do
not handle like an upright to their detriment. I would be very careful about
downhill speeds of 45 mph. It you spill at that speed you are likely to
seriously injure yourself. My top speed on ANY bike is around 35 mph. Any
faster than that and I feel unsafe. Frankly, I find about 20 mph to be a
safe speed on a bike, most especially a recumbent. But I will agree with you
that a LWB is to be infinitely preferred for stability and handling reasons
than any SWB.

But I am normally traveling at about 10 mph on my recumbents, and to me
there is no comparison between recumbents and uprights at these admittedly
rather slow speeds. I can do track stands on an upright. I don't believe
anyone on earth can do a track stand on a recumbent. Hence, they are not as
stable as uprights.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota

Flm said:

Hello all:
So I have my first recumbent, a BikeE E2.
My question regards the use of cleated shoes/pedals on recumbents. I
have not seen much discussion of this. Cleats would seem to be a good
idea as I wouldn't have to fight against gravity to keep my foot on the
pedal. However, I am concerned that cleats would be more difficult to
get in/out of on a bent than an upright. Oh, and just to make me a
double newbie, please note that I have not used cleats before either, on
any type of bike.
So: Cleats on a bent: is it a good idea? Can you get in/out of them
quickly? What brand of cleat would you recommend?
See you on RAGBRAI, -Frank

I've never experienced leg suck, but it sounds scary. There is a
decided performance advantage to cleats, but there is a learning curve
to achieving this advantage. Having the foot fixed to the pedal
enables you to power through the entire circle rather than just
pushing on the pedals. You need to practice pedalling in circles,
thinking about applying power throughout. I do this periodically by
unclipping one foot( at low speed) and pedalling with the other. I was
used to cleats on a mountain bike before using them on a recumbent,
but even so, I have taken a few tumbles, being unable to disengage
when stopping. I use one sided cleated pedals (platforms on the other)
and usually only engage the cleats when on the road at speed.

--

On Sun, 16 May 2004 04:05:41 -0500, "skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message <[email hidden]>:

Mr. Ed farted:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

All recumbents are terrifically unstable

Skip replied:

Quoted message said:

Actually I find the Ryan a terrifically stable bike as long as one follows a
few simple rules

But Skip, of course two-wheel recumbents are unstable. That's why Sam
Whittingham crashed at a mere 80mph. This is one of the reasons Mr Ed
refuses to ride above walking pace, so his red flag man can hold the
bike up when turning if the training wheels don't do their job.

Uprights, on the other hand, are inherently stable. I never bother
leaning mine against anything, I just park them - they are so stble
they can't possibly fall over.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

88% of helmet statistics are made up, 65% of them at Washington University

Edward Dolan said:

"skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

All recumbents are terrifically unstable when compared to uprights.
Therefore, it behooves us to use caution when operating these

contraptions

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

otherwise known as recumbents. I find lately that I am gravitating more

and

Quoted message said:

more to my recumbent trikes because I am growing weary of combating the
constant instability of 2 wheel recumbents.

Actually I find the Ryan a terrifically stable bike as long as one follows

a

Quoted message said:

few simple rules such as keeping your feet on the bike if it's moving. If
I'm going downhill at 45 mph on an upright I'm a worried man. My
imagination is filled with all sorts of grotesque things that could go

wrong

Quoted message said:

and send me hurtling down the mountain head first and face down. On the
other hand the Ryan is so stable at that speed and I'm so relaxed that I
find myself wishing I could twist a throttle and pick up another 10 or so
mph. Same for the GRR. These are exceptionally stable bikes that handle
beautifully at high speed (and low speed too in the Ryan's case). I do

not

Quoted message said:

feel the need for a trike's stability. That day is sure to come, but it's
not here yet.

All recumbents will trick you when you least expect it.The fact is they do
not handle like an upright to their detriment. I would be very careful about
downhill speeds of 45 mph. It you spill at that speed you are likely to
seriously injure yourself. My top speed on ANY bike is around 35 mph. Any
faster than that and I feel unsafe. Frankly, I find about 20 mph to be a
safe speed on a bike, most especially a recumbent. But I will agree with you
that a LWB is to be infinitely preferred for stability and handling reasons
than any SWB.

But I am normally traveling at about 10 mph on my recumbents, and to me
there is no comparison between recumbents and uprights at these admittedly
rather slow speeds. I can do track stands on an upright. I don't believe
anyone on earth can do a track stand on a recumbent. Hence, they are not as
stable as uprights.

In a recent CTC magazine there was an article mentioning 'pendulum
stability' - a long pendulum swings slower than a short pendulum, hence a
penny-farthing is more stable than an 'ordinary' is more stable than a
low-racer...

My SWB tourer is relatively high and it's stable whenever it's in motion.
Unless the front wheel slips in which case it's 'splat' before I can do
anything about it.

Kit

Dan B. writes" I use one sided cleated pedals (platforms on the other)
and usually only engage the cleats when on the road at speed."

I am amazed, after using cleats for several years , how when I want to stay
uncleated, the buggers hook up anyways. I guess all those times I try to
hook up have built motor memory that won't quit.

Miles of Smiles,

Tom

"kit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Edward Dolan said:

"skip" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> All recumbents are terrifically unstable when compared to uprights.
> Therefore, it behooves us to use caution when operating these

contraptions

Quoted message said:

> otherwise known as recumbents. I find lately that I am gravitating

more

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and
> more to my recumbent trikes because I am growing weary of combating

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> constant instability of 2 wheel recumbents.
>

Actually I find the Ryan a terrifically stable bike as long as one

follows

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a

Quoted message said:

few simple rules such as keeping your feet on the bike if it's moving.

If

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm going downhill at 45 mph on an upright I'm a worried man. My
imagination is filled with all sorts of grotesque things that could go

wrong

Quoted message said:

and send me hurtling down the mountain head first and face down. On

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

other hand the Ryan is so stable at that speed and I'm so relaxed that

I

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

find myself wishing I could twist a throttle and pick up another 10 or

so

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mph. Same for the GRR. These are exceptionally stable bikes that

handle

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

beautifully at high speed (and low speed too in the Ryan's case). I do

not

Quoted message said:

feel the need for a trike's stability. That day is sure to come, but

it's

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not here yet.

All recumbents will trick you when you least expect it.The fact is they

do

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

not handle like an upright to their detriment. I would be very careful

about

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

downhill speeds of 45 mph. It you spill at that speed you are likely to
seriously injure yourself. My top speed on ANY bike is around 35 mph.

Any

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

faster than that and I feel unsafe. Frankly, I find about 20 mph to be a
safe speed on a bike, most especially a recumbent. But I will agree with

you

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

that a LWB is to be infinitely preferred for stability and handling

reasons

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

than any SWB.

But I am normally traveling at about 10 mph on my recumbents, and to me
there is no comparison between recumbents and uprights at these

admittedly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

rather slow speeds. I can do track stands on an upright. I don't believe
anyone on earth can do a track stand on a recumbent. Hence, they are not

as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

stable as uprights.

In a recent CTC magazine there was an article mentioning 'pendulum
stability' - a long pendulum swings slower than a short pendulum, hence a
penny-farthing is more stable than an 'ordinary' is more stable than a
low-racer...

My SWB tourer is relatively high and it's stable whenever it's in motion.
Unless the front wheel slips in which case it's 'splat' before I can do
anything about it.

Kit

Yes, Kit, I think you have got it right. I remember reading many years ago
that the higher you are centered above two wheels the easier the balance and
the lower you are centered over two wheels the more difficult the
balance.This seems intuitively to be correct to me. I believe many circus
acts are based on this principle. It is much easier to balance on an upright
than it is to balance on a recumbent, but the higher the seat is above the
two wheels the easier the balance. I believe there was a recumbent a few
years back that was based on this principle. It was called a high rider or
some such thing. I believe it has since gone out of business and it was
never popular for reasons having nothing to do with balance.

--
Ed Dolan - Minnesota