New Windsor Tourist bikes on eBay

Maxo---

This subject was discussed here before. I think if you Google it
you'll find a long thread. I seem to remember the consensus was these bikes
are basically a Fuji Touring. Should be a good deal.

Quoted message said:

I've been wanting a new cx/tour type drop bar do-anything bike for a
while, but haven't had the bucks for what I consider the entry level bike
in that category--the Novara Randonee.

Now this guy is selling "Windsor Tourists" on Ebay for $550usd brand new.
The spec is exactly what I want: cromo frame and fork, components are a
mix of Tiagra, Deore, and Ritchey. Perfect.

I don't mind buying on line--sizing is a non-issue as I
measured my current well fitting bike and it jives with the Tourist, and
I'm a good wrench myself and if it arrives with maladjusted anything, I'll
be able to tweak it. My LBS sucks and I would rather eat glass than buy
something big from them.

Is this like those "Asian Motobecanes" that are too good to be true?

550 for a 1500 (list) bike is mighty tempting.

We just built one for a customer who bought one on-line. It's not even close
to a $1500 value; not nearly as nice in build quality or componenets as, for
example, a Trek 520 (which sells for $1100). I don't understand why people
would trash a bike shop for whatever reasons but not find such deceptive
advertising practices to be a giant red flag.

If we were selling such a bike on the floor, I'd guess it's retail value to
be around $750 or so, once it's fully set up. Of course, at a bike shop,
that $750 includes a warranty. My guess is that you'll have a much tougher
time with a frame failure (getting it taken care of) on a Windsor than on a
name-brand bike. Best thing there is to run things backward and find out who
actually imports them, how long the business has been around, what else they
do, and whether you can get them to write a warranty that ties into
something other than just their on-line persona.

As for being like an "Asian Motobecane" well, that's exactly what it is. I
don't have the box in front of me, so I don't recall if it was either Taiwan
or Chinese in origin. Not that either of those is bad per se, but it bears
no resemblance to the Windsor of old.

If you want a project to work on, you'll have that, as it comes in a box
"assembled" in the same manner as all such bikes. In our shop, that means
about 2 hours of assembly and check-out to make sure everything's the way it
ought to be. It's not something to be done by someone who's never trued
wheels or set up brakes. If you've done overhauls on your own bikes before,
no biggie.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

I've been wanting a new cx/tour type drop bar do-anything bike for

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

while, but haven't had the bucks for what I consider the entry

level bike

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in that category--the Novara Randonee.

Now this guy is selling "Windsor Tourists" on Ebay for $550usd

brand new.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The spec is exactly what I want: cromo frame and fork, components

are a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mix of Tiagra, Deore, and Ritchey. Perfect.

I don't mind buying on line--sizing is a non-issue as I
measured my current well fitting bike and it jives with the

Tourist, and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm a good wrench myself and if it arrives with maladjusted

anything, I'll

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be able to tweak it. My LBS sucks and I would rather eat glass than

buy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

something big from them.

Is this like those "Asian Motobecanes" that are too good to be

true?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

550 for a 1500 (list) bike is mighty tempting.

We just built one for a customer who bought one on-line. It's not

even close

Quoted message said:

to a $1500 value; not nearly as nice in build quality or componenets

as, for

Quoted message said:

example, a Trek 520 (which sells for $1100). I don't understand why

people

Quoted message said:

would trash a bike shop for whatever reasons but not find such

deceptive

Quoted message said:

advertising practices to be a giant red flag.

If we were selling such a bike on the floor, I'd guess it's retail

value to

Quoted message said:

be around $750 or so, once it's fully set up. Of course, at a bike

shop,

Quoted message said:

that $750 includes a warranty. My guess is that you'll have a much

tougher

Quoted message said:

time with a frame failure (getting it taken care of) on a Windsor

than on a

Quoted message said:

name-brand bike. Best thing there is to run things backward and find

out who

Quoted message said:

actually imports them, how long the business has been around, what

else they

Quoted message said:

do, and whether you can get them to write a warranty that ties into
something other than just their on-line persona.

As for being like an "Asian Motobecane" well, that's exactly what it

is. I

Quoted message said:

don't have the box in front of me, so I don't recall if it was either

Taiwan

Quoted message said:

or Chinese in origin. Not that either of those is bad per se, but it

bears

Quoted message said:

no resemblance to the Windsor of old.

If you want a project to work on, you'll have that, as it comes in a

box

Quoted message said:

"assembled" in the same manner as all such bikes. In our shop, that

means

Quoted message said:

about 2 hours of assembly and check-out to make sure everything's the

way it

Quoted message said:

ought to be. It's not something to be done by someone who's never

trued

Quoted message said:

wheels or set up brakes. If you've done overhauls on your own bikes

before,

Quoted message said:

no biggie.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Oh, please. The Windsor Tourist as a Fuji touring under a different
label. It's made in Taiwan and at $600 delivered is a far better value
than a Trek 520 for double that...plus it has a proper threaded quill,
unlike the Trek. A friend just bought a $800 + tax Specialized Sequoia
at a LBS and it only came with Sora shifters/brake levers and I have
Tiagra. The components are of very good quality for that price and it
comes 95% set up. The instructions that come with it suck. I bought one
and had it assembled in under two hours using instructions for the
shifters from the Shimano web site (they are very good). Hardest part
was the front deraileur and that was not hard at all. Rear deraileur
was spot on from the factory. Wheels are true. The welds are good
machine quality and the paint job is very good (not crazy about the
color, but so what?)

I've only got about 100 miles on it so far. Have added Planet Bike
fenders, Planet Bike speedometer/odometer, Specialized Milano leather
saddle (did not care for the supplied saddle although it looked good
quality, personal thing), Tektro auxiliary brake levers, ritchey
clipless pedals. No problem mounting any of it. Bike rides smoothly.
Shifts easy and securely. Brakes are fine. No light-weight, but that's
not what I was looking for. Altogether, I have about $100 in add-ons on
it. I don't think anyone can match this as a touring bike for the $700
I have in it.

There are really few choices in true touring bikes at under $1000
making this bike a screaming bargain. The $1500 "retail" price is pure
puffery and no sensible person believes it for a second. More
reasonable retail would be something like $800 or $900. The seller
(BikesDirect) is silly to inflate the retail that much.

It's a keeper.

Quoted message said:

There are really few choices in true touring bikes at under $1000
making this bike a screaming bargain. The $1500 "retail" price is pure
puffery and no sensible person believes it for a second. More
reasonable retail would be something like $800 or $900. The seller
(BikesDirect) is silly to inflate the retail that much.

But that "pure puffery" actually sucks people in, and severely distorts the
actual worth of the bike. And the assembly we did with the bike we built was
as time consuming as any other; done to high standards, it's easily a 2+
hour job (including stress-releiving wheels, lubricating all threaded
surfaces, removing & properly re-torqueing cranks & bottom bracket etc).
Plus whatever fitting services a decent shop would be doing.

There's also the warranty issue... there is, in fact, no "Motobecane"
company anymore, just a name. No address or phone number either, just an
email drop. No local dealers that I can discover either.

That doesn't make it a bad bike for the money. It could be a good deal for
someone who's mechanically inclined, not concerned about warranty issues,
knows the type of riding they want to do, have a clue about size and can see
the bike for the value it actually is (vs what's claimed). And there are
definitely people in this newsgroup that fit that definition! But that's not
the public at large.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com

Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
"nopcbs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Quoted message said:

I've been wanting a new cx/tour type drop bar do-anything bike for

a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

while, but haven't had the bucks for what I consider the entry

level bike

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in that category--the Novara Randonee.

Now this guy is selling "Windsor Tourists" on Ebay for $550usd

brand new.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The spec is exactly what I want: cromo frame and fork, components

are a

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

mix of Tiagra, Deore, and Ritchey. Perfect.

I don't mind buying on line--sizing is a non-issue as I
measured my current well fitting bike and it jives with the

Tourist, and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm a good wrench myself and if it arrives with maladjusted

anything, I'll

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be able to tweak it. My LBS sucks and I would rather eat glass than

buy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

something big from them.

Is this like those "Asian Motobecanes" that are too good to be

true?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

550 for a 1500 (list) bike is mighty tempting.

We just built one for a customer who bought one on-line. It's not

even close

Quoted message said:

to a $1500 value; not nearly as nice in build quality or componenets

as, for

Quoted message said:

example, a Trek 520 (which sells for $1100). I don't understand why

people

Quoted message said:

would trash a bike shop for whatever reasons but not find such

deceptive

Quoted message said:

advertising practices to be a giant red flag.

If we were selling such a bike on the floor, I'd guess it's retail

value to

Quoted message said:

be around $750 or so, once it's fully set up. Of course, at a bike

shop,

Quoted message said:

that $750 includes a warranty. My guess is that you'll have a much

tougher

Quoted message said:

time with a frame failure (getting it taken care of) on a Windsor

than on a

Quoted message said:

name-brand bike. Best thing there is to run things backward and find

out who

Quoted message said:

actually imports them, how long the business has been around, what

else they

Quoted message said:

do, and whether you can get them to write a warranty that ties into
something other than just their on-line persona.

As for being like an "Asian Motobecane" well, that's exactly what it

is. I

Quoted message said:

don't have the box in front of me, so I don't recall if it was either

Taiwan

Quoted message said:

or Chinese in origin. Not that either of those is bad per se, but it

bears

Quoted message said:

no resemblance to the Windsor of old.

If you want a project to work on, you'll have that, as it comes in a

box

Quoted message said:

"assembled" in the same manner as all such bikes. In our shop, that

means

Quoted message said:

about 2 hours of assembly and check-out to make sure everything's the

way it

Quoted message said:

ought to be. It's not something to be done by someone who's never

trued

Quoted message said:

wheels or set up brakes. If you've done overhauls on your own bikes

before,

Quoted message said:

no biggie.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Oh, please. The Windsor Tourist as a Fuji touring under a different
label. It's made in Taiwan and at $600 delivered is a far better value
than a Trek 520 for double that...plus it has a proper threaded quill,
unlike the Trek. A friend just bought a $800 + tax Specialized Sequoia
at a LBS and it only came with Sora shifters/brake levers and I have
Tiagra. The components are of very good quality for that price and it
comes 95% set up. The instructions that come with it suck. I bought one
and had it assembled in under two hours using instructions for the
shifters from the Shimano web site (they are very good). Hardest part
was the front deraileur and that was not hard at all. Rear deraileur
was spot on from the factory. Wheels are true. The welds are good
machine quality and the paint job is very good (not crazy about the
color, but so what?)

I've only got about 100 miles on it so far. Have added Planet Bike
fenders, Planet Bike speedometer/odometer, Specialized Milano leather
saddle (did not care for the supplied saddle although it looked good
quality, personal thing), Tektro auxiliary brake levers, ritchey
clipless pedals. No problem mounting any of it. Bike rides smoothly.
Shifts easy and securely. Brakes are fine. No light-weight, but that's
not what I was looking for. Altogether, I have about $100 in add-ons on
it. I don't think anyone can match this as a touring bike for the $700
I have in it.

There are really few choices in true touring bikes at under $1000
making this bike a screaming bargain. The $1500 "retail" price is pure
puffery and no sensible person believes it for a second. More
reasonable retail would be something like $800 or $900. The seller
(BikesDirect) is silly to inflate the retail that much.

It's a keeper.

"nopcbs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Oh, please. The Windsor Tourist as a Fuji touring under a different
label. It's made in Taiwan and at $600 delivered is a far better value
than a Trek 520 for double that...plus it has a proper threaded quill,
unlike the Trek.

All true, but if the Fuji Tour has a problem you can go to a Fuji dealer for
service. That said, most people never go back to a bicycle shop for warranty
service, especially on a road bicycle with a steel frame. The other
components don't often fail within the warranty period if they are of
reasonable quality. It's a risk that many people are willing to take.

If my touring bicycle frame broke, I couldn't even get another touring
bicycle from Specialized, as they don't make them anymore, so the lifetime
warranty on the frame doesn't help me at all. Ditto for those with a Miyata
1000, a Shogun, or any of the other 1980-1990's touring bicycles, except
Trek of Fuji. The Trek 520 isn't bad, but it has some design flaws for a
touring bicycle.

Quoted message said:

There are really few choices in true touring bikes at under $1000
making this bike a screaming bargain. The $1500 "retail" price is pure
puffery and no sensible person believes it for a second. More
reasonable retail would be something like $800 or $900. The seller

I think that the extra money for the Fuji version might be worth it, if it's
$100 difference or so.

Yeah, you gotta love those inflated MSRPs. I recently bought some horizontal
blinds from JC Penney. The retail price was about 3x times the actual price,
and I'm relatively certain that no one has ever paid even 1/2 the retail
price.

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7tE6e.594

Quoted message said:

But that "pure puffery" actually sucks people in, and severely distorts

the

Quoted message said:

actual worth of the bike.

I doubt it. People are so used to wildly inflated MSRPs that they have lost
the effect of making the buyer believe that they are getting a great deal
because they're paying half of a phony MSRP. Look at automobiles, where the
MSRP has become meaningless, and now people negotiate down from the invoice
price. When was the last time anyone paid even invoice for a new vehicle,
let alone MSRP, unless it was for a vehicle in exceptionally high demand,
i.e. Honda Odyssey.

The last Trek bicycle I purchased had an MSRP of $1650. I paid $1100 (your
shop had it for $1000, but didn't have the size I needed, and couldn't get
it, as it was a closeout sale of the previous year's model). I've found that
purchasing the previous year's model often has another benefit besides
price; many manufacturers de-content their bicycles from year to year to
keep the price points the same, for the same model name.

Quoted message said:

And the assembly we did with the bike we built was
as time consuming as any other;

How much do you charge for something like that? $150?

Remember, it's not how much you spend, it's how much you save!