New Wheels

My vote is for the ultegra/105 Open Pro Option. I've had Cosmos before
and had continuos problems with them, (clicking noises for the hub).
Google should reveal others describing the same problem.

I have an open pro/105 wheel and have had no problems.

Cheers,
Dave

"A5Hi5M" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

So after breaking a 2 spokes in 3 weeks on my RH550's that can standard
with my OCR 0, I've decided its definately time for an upgrade.

I read quite a bit about open pros with ultegra/105 hubs and dt spokes,
however my LBS suggested some mavic cosmos instead. Said it was a similar
rim, but factory built etcetc.

I've got mavic cosmos on my litespeed and FIR rims with 105 hubs as spares.
Had a lotta trouble with the FIR rims going out of true and these were built
by cecil walker, which have a rep as good wheel builders, maybe i just got
some bad rims?
Never had a problem with the cosmos, never had to have them trued, no hub
problems..
I rekon ive done about 4000kms on the mavics so far, and im in the high
80's.

Go the open pro's / 105 option, but make sure you get them built up by a wheel builder with a good rep. This should outperform and outlast the mavic factory option

If considering factory wheels, ask for a guaranteed repair time. If
your LBS builds a wheel, they should be able to repair it in a day, if
the spokes and rims are standard. Some factory wheels hang there for
months.

And if a wheel starts pinging spokes when newish, they should replace
it for free. It's a sign the wheel needs a complete rebuild.

Donga

A5Hi5M said:

So after breaking a 2 spokes in 3 weeks on my RH550's that can standard with
my OCR 0, I've decided its definately time for an upgrade.

Another data point on dodgey shimano cheap wheels ... :-/

Quoted message said:

I read quite a bit about open pros with ultegra/105 hubs and dt spokes,
however my LBS suggested some mavic cosmos instead. Said it was a similar
rim, but factory built etcetc.

Factory built doesn't mean better, it means easier for the LBS as they
don't have to build it.

OP's with the hubs you're listing make great wheels *if* they're built
well.

Factory wheels: Built by a machine that is designed to be very precise, but also to build wheels very quickly! Hence the result is not always spot on.
Hand Built: Built carefully and with special attention to building a perfect product specific to your needs, so takes longer. Arguably easier and faster to repair.

The wheels you're comparing will both be around the $650 mark. The Cosmos are 1800g...I think the hand built combo you're looking at will be a fair bit lighter. My vote is for the handbuilt wheels.

I hope I don't confuse you with more options, but other wheels to look at would be...
- Shimano R600 (Ultegra) wheels. $600 & 1650g
- DT Swiss R1.1 rims (very similar to the Mavics)
- Ritchey WCS Protocol wheels (bit more expensive, but much lighter)

A5Hi5M said:

So I's just wondering if you guys can help out with some advice/info..
What are the pro's/con's with wheels straight from a factory as opposed to
hand-built?

Factory wheels are usually built by machine. There's little (if any) stress relieving done, spoke tension is a lottery, and they usually don't use enough spokes, so spokes break.

Hand built wheels (assuming a competent wheelbuilder) will have enough spokes to start with (32 is a good number for general purpose wheels), and be properly tensioned and stress relieved, so they won't break spokes, and will stay true.

FWIW, hand built wheels don't have to be heavy. The ones I'm building at the moment (I call them my "SL" or "stupid light" wheels) use a pair of gorgeous 28 hole Nisi singles rims (thanks Gemma), laced with DT revolution butted spokes to Campy Record hubs.

Weights are:

Rear:
Hub: 316g
Spokes: 14 x 6.5 + 14 x 5.0 = 161g
Nipples: 28g
Nipple washers: 10g
Rim: 290g
Total: 805g

Front:
Hub: 181g
Spokes: 28 x 5.0 = 140g
Nipples: 28g
Nipple washers: 10g
Rim: 290g
Total: 649g

Total weight: 1455g.

And if I were really foolish, I could shave another 40g or so by using aluminium nipples and ditching the nipple washers.

That's lighter than Campy Protons (1640g) or Neutrons (1550g), and not too far off Campy Hyperons (1240g), carbon rims and all.

Mind you, they're not exactly a commuting wheel 🙂

Cheers,

Suzy

A5Hi5M said:

So after breaking a 2 spokes in 3 weeks on my RH550's that can standard with
my OCR 0, I've decided its definately time for an upgrade.

I read quite a bit about open pros with ultegra/105 hubs and dt spokes,
however my LBS suggested some mavic cosmos instead. Said it was a similar
rim, but factory built etcetc.

So I's just wondering if you guys can help out with some advice/info..
What are the pro's/con's with wheels straight from a factory as opposed to
hand-built?

Is there an easy choice between the two?

Is there something else I should consider - either factors or other wheels?
(perferably not more wheels since i have enough trouble deciding from 2
choices :P )

Im around 85kg, and at the momment do about 150-250km's a week, usually
riding about 30-100kms .. I guess I consider myself a bit more than just a
weekend warrior. I've also been inspired by the regaling stories told at
a.b and am considering trying out some crits.

Thanks ..
Ash

I made my own: Mavic CXP33 rims, DT 15/14/15 spokes, brass nipples and Ultegra hubs. Trued just once in 14000k to date.

Factory built wheels are ok, but it is a good idea to stress relieve the spokes yourself and retrue them if necessary. They should then perform like a hand-built wheel with similar components.

Ritch

Also consider a velocity wheelset. I have a pair of the velocity aeroheads. You get a sealed bearing hub, quality spokes and a nice rim for a good price ~$400?.

If I was nasty, Id say the reason they arent pushed by most bike shops simply because they cant make as much money out of these as the alternatives.

till

Walrus said:

- Ritchey WCS Protocol wheels (bit more expensive, but *much* lighter)

I second that. I'm in the high 80s (weight wise, not age!) and ride
factory built Ritchey WCS. I've not broken a spoke yet and they're
still true, and that's for commuting. The best thing is they're nice
and light, under 1500g, which is a pretty big difference from my old
105 wheels which I think might have been almost 2kg. I'm not sure why
it feels so much of a difference to ride as 500g compared to 85kg isn't
much, but it certainly feels a lot better accelerating and up hills.

Cheers
David M

quote='David M'Walrus said:

- Ritchey WCS Protocol wheels (bit more expensive, but *much* lighter)

I second that. I'm in the high 80s (weight wise, not age!) and ride
factory built Ritchey WCS. I've not broken a spoke yet and they're
still true, and that's for commuting. The best thing is they're nice
and light, under 1500g, which is a pretty big difference from my old
105 wheels which I think might have been almost 2kg. I'm not sure why
it feels so much of a difference to ride as 500g compared to 85kg isn't
much, but it certainly feels a lot better accelerating and up hills.

Cheers
David M[/QUOTE]
I'm over 100 and on the good roadie my everyday wheels are handbuilt Ritchey WCS rims with DT hubs and 32 DT straight gauge spokes. Rock solid.

Wheels on the commuter are factory built Velocity Heaters (MTB). Also been good.

Velocity also seem to have a very good reputation in the US, going on discussion I see on the net.

SteveA

Suzy

I use wheels like these for everyday - Record 32s, DT revs, alloy
nipples, DT R1.1 rim on back and Velocity Aerohead on front. Love 'em.

I've ruined two Aerohead Offsets on the back by hitting cat-eyes and
denting the rim. Cost me hundreds to rebuild. Steer clear of offset
wheels!

Donga

David M said:

Walrus wrote:Ritchey WCS Protocol wheels (bit more expensive, but *much* lighter)

FYI on the Ritchey's, they've issued a recall on 2003-present wheels due to a faulty hub (American Classic hub I think). Check their website.

ritcheylogic.comindex.htmOpen ↗

Walrus said:

FYI on the Ritchey's, they've issued a recall on 2003-present wheels due to a faulty hub (American Classic hub I think). Check their website.

ritcheylogic.comindex.htmOpen ↗

I've heard sketchy reports on the American Classic hubs.

My DT hubs have been schweet.

SteveA

SteveA said:

I've heard sketchy reports on the American Classic hubs.

My DT hubs have been schweet.

SteveA

I'm waiting on my wheels to be delivered TODAY! DT Swiss hubs/rims/spokes.

Donga said:

I use wheels like these for everyday - Record 32s, DT revs, alloy
nipples, DT R1.1 rim on back and Velocity Aerohead on front. Love 'em.

My everyday wheels are Chorus 32s, RT Comps, brass nipples, Mavic Open Pros. Weight is around 1750g - truly bombproof.

Cheers,

Suzy

suzyj said:

My everyday wheels are Chorus 32s, RT Comps, brass nipples, Mavic Open
Pros. Weight is around 1750g - truly bombproof.

You're not using big enough bombs!

I've got a Mavic 521 on an XT hub that's got a bit of wobble. I think that
wheel probably weighs around 1200g on its own, before tyre and tube.

And then there was the Velocity DeepV that didn't survive a close
encounter of the kerb kind in Lane Cove National park. Despite the
sidewalls being split, the tube stayed up so I could ride it home, with
the rear brake detached.

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
Oh, loneliness and cheeseburgers are a dangerous mix.
- Comic Book Guy

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>> "A5Hi5M" == i5M <A5Hi5M> writes:

A5Hi5M> So after breaking a 2 spokes in 3 weeks on my RH550's that
A5Hi5M> can standard with my OCR 0, I've decided its definately time
A5Hi5M> for an upgrade.

I pinged 3 spokes in 2 weeks on my then three month old trek, got the
wheel rebuilt with DT spokes by Cecil Walkers and then did 40.000 kms
without even a wobble. Cost about 70 bucks from memory. You may not
need an upgrade but you might *want* to ;-)

I'm also around 85 kilos fwiw.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

Donga said:

I've ruined two Aerohead Offsets on the back by hitting cat-eyes and
denting the rim. Cost me hundreds to rebuild. Steer clear of offset
wheels!

Cats eyes? WTF????

I pop CURBS on mine, which are 28h 2x/radials, and mine have never even looked like getting a wobble. I couldnt even count how many cat eyes ive run over because they're irrelevant. Ive hit cats eyes on welshpool road in perth, doing over 75km/h and never even thought about it because I know that cant damage a properly built wheel!

If you're damaging rims running over cats eyes, you just cant have anywhere near enough pressure in them, or something else weird.

till

ps: I weigh 75kgs, and the bike in question is probably ~10kg+