New web site: bechamp.org

Quoted message said:

Subject: New web site: bechamp.org
From: bechamp.org [email hidden]
Date: 3/4/04 2:18 PM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Announcing a new site: Bechamp.org

The site www.bechamp.org is dedicated to the work of Antoine Bechamp.

Fantastic. Please try to make it a moderated site where the skeptics will not be able to destroy any
reasonable attempt at intelligent, scientific, discussion and debate.

DrC PhD

A Be'champ advocate.

Pasteur was a con artist. The germ theory of disease is false. Be'champ proved it scientifically.
Pasteur admitted it on his death bed.

Long live Be'champs research.

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] (DRCEEPHD) wrote:

[Snip]

Quoted message said:

Pasteur was a con artist. The germ theory of disease is false. Be'champ proved it scientifically.
Pasteur admitted it on his death bed.

Pasteur did no such thing. I note that, although you like to make the claim that Pasteur admitted
his work was wrong on his deathbed, you are very much averse to actually providing convincing
evidence that Pasteur ever said such a thing as he lay dying.

[Snip]

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

DRCEEPHD said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: New web site: bechamp.org From: bechamp.org [email hidden] Date: 3/4/04 2:18 PM
Eastern Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Announcing a new site: Bechamp.org

The site www.bechamp.org is dedicated to the work of Antoine Bechamp.

Fantastic. Please try to make it a moderated site where the skeptics will not be able to destroy
any reasonable attempt at intelligent, scientific, discussion and debate.

Translation: "Please make it a place where nobody will contradict anything I believe, no matter how
stupid my beliefs may be."

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always
correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

"David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

Quoted message said:

Subject: New web site: bechamp.org From: bechamp.org [email hidden] Date: 3/4/04 2:18 PM
Eastern Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Announcing a new site: Bechamp.org

The site www.bechamp.org is dedicated to the work of Antoine Bechamp.

Fantastic. Please try to make it a moderated site where the skeptics

will not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be able to destroy any reasonable attempt at intelligent, scientific, discussion and debate.

Translation: "Please make it a place where nobody will contradict anything I believe, no matter
how stupid my beliefs may be."

David,

I dont think you were invited, so no need to comment. Thanks.

Cheers, Rod.

Quoted message said:

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost
always correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

I don't have this article maybe someone can get hold of it?
5. Delhoume, Leon, De Claude Bernard a d'Arsonval. Lib Bailliere et fils, Paris, 1939, 595pp~
Anth [snip]

Orac said:

Pasteur did no such thing. I note that, although you like to make the claim that Pasteur admitted
his work was wrong on his deathbed, you are very much averse to actually providing convincing
evidence that Pasteur ever said such a thing as he lay dying.

DrC, thanks for your encouragment.

Orac, from what I've read, it's generally accepted that Pasteur said either "the field is
everything" or "the terrain is everything", depending on the translation. It could, of course, be
wrong; it is impossible to prove one way or the other whether he actually said it or not. We CAN,
however, look for a reasonable degree of documentation. Feel free to provide what you can to support
the idea that he said no such thing. Equally, I would be interested in seeing any evidence that
supports the idea that he DID say such a thing.

The truth is all we're after, isn't it, gentlemen?

dminoz / bechamp.org

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 03:49:35 GMT, [email hidden] (David

Wright) said:

Translation: "Please make it a place where nobody will contradict anything I believe, no matter how
stupid my beliefs may be."

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always
correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

David, thanks for your input.

You may find my approach to maintaining Bechamp.org to be disappointing. I'm a bit of a fan of
scientific method, and I'm only after the truth. Any discussion of viewspoints or data which helps
towards that end will be welcome. So, if you would like to contribute an article either for or
against Bechamp or pleomorphism, I'll be happy to consider it for publication on the site; as long,
of course, as it meets the basic requirements of writing and logical research. I'm not interested in
diatribes; I am interested in research.

Looking forward to hearing from you. I certainly don't want any giants standing on your shoulders.

dminoz / bechamp.org

On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:24:35 -0000, "Anth" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I don't have this article maybe someone can get hold of it?
5. Delhoume, Leon, De Claude Bernard a d'Arsonval. Lib Bailliere et fils, Paris, 1939, 595pp~ Anth
[snip]

Anth, I looked around the net for a reference to the above, and found this link:

chem.ch.huji.ac.ilarsonval.htmlOpen ↗

I've never heard of this guy before. Very interesting. And Tesla found him interesting as
well, it seems.

But did you post the above with reference to the discussion of what Pasteur said before he died?

Thanks dminoz / bechamp.org

The Blunder from Down under uttereth...

"Rod" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:k7F1c.86851$Wa.6384@news-
server.bigpond.net.au...

Quoted message said:

"David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

>Subject: New web site: bechamp.org From: bechamp.org [email hidden] Date: 3/4/04 2:18
>PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

>Announcing a new site: Bechamp.org
>
>The site www.bechamp.org is dedicated to the work of Antoine Bechamp.

Fantastic. Please try to make it a moderated site where the skeptics

will not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be able to destroy any reasonable attempt at intelligent, scientific, discussion and debate.

Translation: "Please make it a place where nobody will contradict anything I believe, no matter
how stupid my beliefs may be."

David,

I dont think you were invited, so no need to comment. Thanks.

That was so negative.....

BTW, where is YOUR invite?

In article <[email hidden]>,

bechamp.org said:

Orac said:

Pasteur did no such thing. I note that, although you like to make the claim that Pasteur admitted
his work was wrong on his deathbed, you are very much averse to actually providing convincing
evidence that Pasteur ever said such a thing as he lay dying.

DrC, thanks for your encouragment.

Orac, from what I've read, it's generally accepted that Pasteur said either "the field is
everything" or "the terrain is everything", depending on the translation. It could, of course, be
wrong; it is impossible to prove one way or the other whether he actually said it or not. We CAN,
however, look for a reasonable degree of documentation.

Then feel free to provide the documentation that Pasteur did indeed say on his deathbed what
was claimed.

Quoted message said:

Feel free to provide what you can to support the idea that he said no such thing.

Logical fallacy used: Shifting the burden of proof. I'm not the one claiming Pasteur said this; I am
the one voicing skepticism and asking for evidence to support "Dr. C's" assertion that Pasteur said
such a thing.

See: nizkor.orgburden of proof.htmlOpen ↗
infidels.orglogic.htmlOpen ↗

Quoted message said:

Equally, I would be interested in seeing any evidence that supports the idea that he DID say
such a thing.

I have been unable to find any evidence that he did say such a thing, and I have looked for it on
and off when this issue comes up. Consequently, I was challenging "Dr. C" to provide his source for
this supposed deathbed statement of Pasteur's. "Dr. C" is very good at making assertions, but very
bad at actually providing evidence to back those assertions up.

[Snip

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Rod said:

"David Wright" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

>Subject: New web site: bechamp.org From: bechamp.org [email hidden] Date: 3/4/04 2:18
>PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: <[email hidden]>

>Announcing a new site: Bechamp.org
>
>The site www.bechamp.org is dedicated to the work of Antoine Bechamp.

Fantastic. Please try to make it a moderated site where the skeptics

will not

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

be able to destroy any reasonable attempt at intelligent, scientific, discussion and debate.

Translation: "Please make it a place where nobody will contradict anything I believe, no matter
how stupid my beliefs may be."

David,

I dont think you were invited, so no need to comment. Thanks.

Hey, guess what, Rod? I didn't invite you to comment on what I wrote

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always
correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

In article <[email hidden]>,

bechamp.org said:

Orac said:

Pasteur did no such thing. I note that, although you like to make the claim that Pasteur admitted
his work was wrong on his deathbed, you are very much averse to actually providing convincing
evidence that Pasteur ever said such a thing as he lay dying.

DrC, thanks for your encouragment.

Orac, from what I've read, it's generally accepted that Pasteur said either "the field is
everything" or "the terrain is everything", depending on the translation. It could, of course, be
wrong; it is impossible to prove one way or the other whether he actually said it or not. We CAN,
however, look for a reasonable degree of documentation. Feel free to provide what you can to
support the idea that he said no such thing. Equally, I would be interested in seeing any evidence
that supports the idea that he DID say such a thing.

The truth is all we're after, isn't it, gentlemen?

Sounds like you are. I am.

It's possible that Pasteur really *did* say that on his deathbed. But what if he was delirious? :-)

Beyond that, however, it really doesn't matter *what* someone says on their deathbed -- it doesn't
automatically make it true. For example, there's a pernicious lie, popular in creationist circles,
that Darwin repudiated his theory of evolution on his deathbed. (He didn't, as we know from his
daughter, who was there, unlike the liar who made this absurd claim.)

If Newton had repudiated his theory of gravitation on his deathbed, it wouldn't cause apples to
fall upwards.

I've got no objection to your Bechamp web site, and I wish you success with it.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always
correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

In article <[email hidden]>,

bechamp.org said:

(David Wright) said:

Translation: "Please make it a place where nobody will contradict anything I believe, no matter
how stupid my beliefs may be."

David, thanks for your input.

You may find my approach to maintaining Bechamp.org to be disappointing. I'm a bit of a fan of
scientific method, and I'm only after the truth. Any discussion of viewspoints or data which helps
towards that end will be welcome. So, if you would like to contribute an article either for or
against Bechamp or pleomorphism, I'll be happy to consider it for publication on the site; as long,
of course, as it meets the basic requirements of writing and logical research. I'm not interested
in diatribes; I am interested in research.

Looking forward to hearing from you. I certainly don't want any giants standing on your shoulders.

Very wise of you. It can be painful.

However, I am not a biologist (nor is "Dr" Cee), so I'm not well- positioned to write such a paper.
I do find the idea that bacteria can easily shift their forms to be highly suspicious -- if it were
true, it would be relatively easy to prove, and the person who did the proving would be on the next
plane to Stockholm to pick up his or her Nobel Prize.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my opinions only, but they're almost always
correct. "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were standing on my
shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

In article <[email hidden]>,

(David Wright) said:

In article <[email hidden]>, bechamp.org

Quoted message said:

Orac said:

Pasteur did no such thing. I note that, although you like to make the claim that Pasteur
admitted his work was wrong on his deathbed, you are very much averse to actually providing
convincing evidence that Pasteur ever said such a thing as he lay dying.

DrC, thanks for your encouragment.

Orac, from what I've read, it's generally accepted that Pasteur said either "the field is
everything" or "the terrain is everything", depending on the translation. It could, of course, be
wrong; it is impossible to prove one way or the other whether he actually said it or not. We CAN,
however, look for a reasonable degree of documentation. Feel free to provide what you can to
support the idea that he said no such thing. Equally, I would be interested in seeing any
evidence that supports the idea that he DID say such a thing.

The truth is all we're after, isn't it, gentlemen?

Sounds like you are. I am.

It's possible that Pasteur really *did* say that on his deathbed. But what if he was
delirious? :-)

Possible, given that Pasteur suffered more than one stroke in the weeks before his death. (He
suffered a left-sided hemiparesis from a stroke he had suffered at age 46 that had made laboratory
work increasingly difficult in his later years.) However, one account I came across had Pasteur
listening to the life of St. Vincent de Paul, and by reports he kept his faculties until the end.
(As an aside, Pasteur was a devout Catholic, which just goes to show that religious faith does not
have to preclude scientific inquiry.)

Although I see the claim replicated ad nauseum on the Internet that Pasteur admitted he was "wrong,"
the only source I have ever seen cited for this "terrain" quote is an old out of print book written
in 1939 (making it difficult to check the quote for context, what, if any, evidence is presented
that Pasteur actually said it, etc.). In addition, the book is written in French, which most people
contributing to this newsgroup don't read. I read some, but I can't say it would be good enough to
follow anything other than very simple prose.

The book is:

Delhoume, Leon, De Claude Bernard a d'Arsonval. Lib Bailliere et fils, Paris, 1939.

I have never been able to find another source cited for the alleged dying words of Pasteur that
alties frequently claim. As a general rule of historical inquiry, for any quote attributed to a
historical figure of such importance, particularly a quote in which this figure in essence
supposedly contradicts his life work, it is a very good idea to require more than one source before
accepting it, unless that one source presents unusually convincing evidence for the quote.

Quoted message said:

Beyond that, however, it really doesn't matter *what* someone says on their deathbed -- it doesn't
automatically make it true. For example, there's a pernicious lie, popular in creationist circles,
that Darwin repudiated his theory of evolution on his deathbed. (He didn't, as we know from his
daughter, who was there, unlike the liar who made this absurd claim.)

Quite true. Odd how certain scientists disliked by various ideologues (Darwin or Pasteur, for
instance) are frequently said by those who don't accept their work to have admitted they were wrong
on their deathbed.

[Snip]

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

(David Wright) said:

In article <[email hidden]>, bechamp.org

Quoted message said:

(David Wright) said:

Translation: "Please make it a place where nobody will contradict anything I believe, no matter
how stupid my beliefs may be."

David, thanks for your input.

You may find my approach to maintaining Bechamp.org to be disappointing. I'm a bit of a fan of
scientific method, and I'm only after the truth. Any discussion of viewspoints or data which
helps towards that end will be welcome. So, if you would like to contribute an article either for
or against Bechamp or pleomorphism, I'll be happy to consider it for publication on the site; as
long, of course, as it meets the basic requirements of writing and logical research. I'm not
interested in diatribes; I am interested in research.

Looking forward to hearing from you. I certainly don't want any giants standing on your
shoulders.

Very wise of you. It can be painful.

However, I am not a biologist (nor is "Dr" Cee), so I'm not well- positioned to write such a
paper. I do find the idea that bacteria can easily shift their forms to be highly suspicious -- if
it were true, it would be relatively easy to prove, and the person who did the proving would be on
the next plane to Stockholm to pick up his or her Nobel Prize.

It is also forgotten that this idea of easily shifting bacteria was developed in the very infancy of
microbiology, when the tools available for studying bacteria were exceedingly primitive compared to
what we have today. Heck, even Gram stains (a very basic means of characterizing classes of
bacteria) weren't developed until the 1870's.

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"

(Yep apparently, although I've not been able to get the very article, it's in there whether or not)
You have to understand that sick people often say things that seem irrational - it's their way of
dealing with things.. Anth

"bechamp.org" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anth said:

I don't have this article maybe someone can get hold of it?
5. Delhoume, Leon, De Claude Bernard a d'Arsonval. Lib Bailliere et fils, Paris, 1939, 595pp~
Anth [snip]

Anth, I looked around the net for a reference to the above, and found this link:

chem.ch.huji.ac.ilarsonval.htmlOpen ↗

I've never heard of this guy before. Very interesting. And Tesla found him interesting as well,
it seems.

But did you post the above with reference to the discussion of what Pasteur said before he died?

Thanks dminoz / bechamp.org

That makes sense, if people washed their hands and the disease rates lowered then that's a good pro
argument for germ theory. The army use aerosols to dispense chemical weapons, if germ theory was
incorrect in that sense then those aerosols would be unpredictable. Anth

"Kim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"TLCGOLFER" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20040304203156.20582.00000809@mb-
m24.aol.com...

Quoted message said:

The germ theory of disease is false.

You are aware that childbed fever was almost eliminated once physicians started to wash their
hands (remove bacteria) before examining the

laboring

Quoted message said:

women are you not? You are aware that antibiotics have caused remarkable improvements in the sick
are you not? I have experienced vast improvement myself within hours of taking antibiotics.

Quoted message said:

Whole nations are being deceived by the medicines of Satan.

Satan? .......???

Quoted message said:

This is the best explanation for what is occuring that I can find. It is no longer a
prohpesy...we are living it.

I fail to comprehend this claim.

Kim

Saying the germ theory of disease is wrong because Pasteur admitted it, isn't a proof that it is
wrong. The theory is now much bigger than the man. Anth

"bechamp.org" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Orac said:

Pasteur did no such thing. I note that, although you like to make the claim that Pasteur admitted
his work was wrong on his deathbed, you are very much averse to actually providing convincing
evidence that Pasteur ever said such a thing as he lay dying.

DrC, thanks for your encouragment.

Orac, from what I've read, it's generally accepted that Pasteur said either "the field is
everything" or "the terrain is everything", depending on the translation. It could, of course, be
wrong; it is impossible to prove one way or the other whether he actually said it or not. We CAN,
however, look for a reasonable degree of documentation. Feel free to provide what you can to
support the idea that he said no such thing. Equally, I would be interested in seeing any evidence
that supports the idea that he DID say such a thing.

The truth is all we're after, isn't it, gentlemen?

dminoz / bechamp.org

Have you got that study which you claimed that chemotherapy showed increase in survival for stage IV
colorectal cancer with liver metastasis? Anth

Quoted message said:

"Dr. C" is very good at making assertions, but very bad at actually

providing evidence to back those assertions up.

Quoted message said:

[Snip

--
Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
|
|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you inconvenience me with questions?"